2021-22 NBA Season Discussion

[falcolombardi]

Giannis as great as he is, isn't the smartest man defender I've seen. I've seen him burned by a lot of smaller players 1 v 1. He's an ATG help defender but he has some defensive IQ points to develop imo.

With all due respect ofc, I root for him all the time.

With Middleton out I officially favor the Celtics (and warriors with a weak booker) to make the finals.

part of it is that he has a lot less lateral mobility than people would expect from his athletism, too much bulk and leg lenght for that

on the flipside his offensive decision making has legitemely impressed me, i expect him to make the right read much more often than not now

[70sFan]

Gonna be hard to rationalize Jokic over Joel for Poy at this point. Even if you thought Nikola was better in the Rs it was really close and they were the 2 best Rs players

Joel is dominating a tough matchup now who many were picking to upset Philly and up 3-0 now after a turnaround gamewinner. Jokic on the other hand is getting played off the floor and about to get swept again.

Embiid has much better team and plays against far worse team dealing with injuries. Not even close to the same situation. Embiid has at least 3 teammates better than Jokic's best.

[70sFan]

Am I the only one who finds it funny that some players are held to lower standard? Durant has been called the best player in the league for years and he's been absolutely terrible so far. Yet nobody says anything about his legacy or him being a "choker". Meanwhile 37 years old Paul has a legacy series in front of him, just absurd...

[Peregrine01]

Caruso’s defense is just amazing. The guy plays like a smaller version of Draymond. Bulls put him on Giannis and Giannis struggled to score.

[falcolombardi]

Am I the only one who finds it funny that some players are held to lower standard? Durant has been called the best player in the league for years and he's been absolutely terrible so far. Yet nobody says anything about his legacy or him being a "choker". Meanwhile 37 years old Paul has a legacy series in front of him, just absurd...

some players archetypes, personalities and or ring shelves gives them more or less leeway with people

durant has rings and is a all time great scorer which gives him a lot of leeway, the aesthetics of his game also make a lot of people see him as the best plauer since he is the "most unstopabble scorer"

unfortunately nobody is fully unbiased, us here are susceptible to our preference biases too

[SeniorWalker]

Am I the only one who finds it funny that some players are held to lower standard? Durant has been called the best player in the league for years and he's been absolutely terrible so far. Yet nobody says anything about his legacy or him being a "choker". Meanwhile 37 years old Paul has a legacy series in front of him, just absurd...

Nah, I think Durant is gonna get destroyed for his performance here. This is as bad I've ever seen from him.

In terms of legacy talk, Durant is simply not a peer of LeBron historically speaking. He's an in-era peer, but LeBron's true peers are MJ, Kareem, Wilt, the top 10 all-timers. KD is not on that list so the standard is different. Steph is the closest guy to him in this era and we know he falls far short....although if he'd won that 2016 finals I suspect he'd be fairly close to LeBron right now.

[yoyoboy]

caruso is the most valuable role player in the league

derozan with the redemption game

giannis reads are so crisp now is impressive, his decision making has come a long way

Mikal Bridges?

a dpoy contender cannot be a role player by definition

I figured that would be the answer, but I think excluding a guy from the discussion because he's potentially too good of a "role player" is kinda strange. I'm not even really much of a fan of pegging guys as role players in the first place because a lot of role players carry more impact than "stars," but if we're going to use that terminology, I think it makes sense to look at guys who aren't really primary or secondary scoring options, don't have much playmaking loads, and have pretty limited and defined roles on offense. With averages of 14/4/2 and considering his role, I think it's fair for him to be in that conversation still. He's an amazing 3+D guy, and 3+D guys are basically the most coveted "role players" there are.

[falcolombardi]

Am I the only one who finds it funny that some players are held to lower standard? Durant has been called the best player in the league for years and he's been absolutely terrible so far. Yet nobody says anything about his legacy or him being a "choker". Meanwhile 37 years old Paul has a legacy series in front of him, just absurd...

Nah, I think Durant is gonna get destroyed for his performance here. This is as bad I've ever seen from him.

In terms of legacy talk, Durant is simply not a peer of LeBron historically speaking. He's an in-era peer, but LeBron's true peers are MJ, Kareem, Wilt, the top 10 all-timers. KD is not on that list so the standard is different. Steph is the closest guy to him in this era and we know he falls far short....although if he'd won that 2016 finals I suspect he'd be fairly close to LeBron right now.

is that the correct way to go about it?

i mean, for all intents and purposes curry had a dissapointing finals and lebron a fantastic one, yet if a couple shots go differently curry gets closer to lebron for a series where he was widely outplayed?

that sounds as if knicks wom game 7 vs houston in 94 and people started seeing ewing as a peer to olajuwon for a series where hakeem did a historical lockdown job on him and completely outplayed him

[GSP]

Mikal Bridges?

a dpoy contender cannot be a role player by definition

I figured that would be the answer, but I think excluding a guy from the discussion because he's potentially too good of a "role player" is kinda strange. I'm not even really much of a fan of pegging guys as role players in the first place because a lot of role players carry more impact than "stars," but if we're going to use that terminology, I think it makes sense to look at guys who aren't really primary or secondary scoring options, don't have much playmaking loads, and have pretty limited and defined roles on offense. With averages of 14/4/2 and considering his role, I think it's fair for him to be in that conversation still. He's an amazing 3+D guy, and 3+D guys are basically the most coveted "role players" there are.

Mikal has made leaps attacking closeouts and scoring off the dribble and catch this season. Last season you could say he was a pure 3&d guy this season hes developed into much more than that. Hes much more Iggy than he is Bruce Bowen at this point.

[Jaivl]

Am I the only one who finds it funny that some players are held to lower standard? Durant has been called the best player in the league for years and he's been absolutely terrible so far. Yet nobody says anything about his legacy or him being a "choker". Meanwhile 37 years old Paul has a legacy series in front of him, just absurd...

Nah, I think Durant is gonna get destroyed for his performance here. This is as bad I've ever seen from him.

In terms of legacy talk, Durant is simply not a peer of LeBron historically speaking. He's an in-era peer, but LeBron's true peers are MJ, Kareem, Wilt, the top 10 all-timers. KD is not on that list so the standard is different. Steph is the closest guy to him in this era and we know he falls far short....although if he'd won that 2016 finals I suspect he'd be fairly close to LeBron right now.

is that the correct way to go about it?

i mean, for all intents and purposes curry had a dissapointing finals and lebron a fantastic one, yet if a couple shots go differently curry gets closer to lebron for a series where he was widely outplayed?

that sounds as if knicks wom game 7 vs houston in 94 and people started seeing ewing as a peer to olajuwon for a series where hakeem did a historical lockdown job on him and completely outplayed him

He didn't do it when it mattered, though. Didn't have the drive. Ewing willed that team to victory.

[SeniorWalker]

Am I the only one who finds it funny that some players are held to lower standard? Durant has been called the best player in the league for years and he's been absolutely terrible so far. Yet nobody says anything about his legacy or him being a "choker". Meanwhile 37 years old Paul has a legacy series in front of him, just absurd...

Nah, I think Durant is gonna get destroyed for his performance here. This is as bad I've ever seen from him.

In terms of legacy talk, Durant is simply not a peer of LeBron historically speaking. He's an in-era peer, but LeBron's true peers are MJ, Kareem, Wilt, the top 10 all-timers. KD is not on that list so the standard is different. Steph is the closest guy to him in this era and we know he falls far short....although if he'd won that 2016 finals I suspect he'd be fairly close to LeBron right now.

is that the correct way to go about it?

i mean, for all intents and purposes curry had a dissapointing finals and lebron a fantastic one, yet if a couple shots go differently curry gets closer to lebron for a series where he was widely outplayed?

that sounds as if knicks wom game 7 vs houston in 94 and people started seeing ewing as a peer to olajuwon for a series where hakeem did a historical lockdown job on him and completely outplayed him

I guess I meant if curry had a good finals and won. Many believe curry was hurt/limited that series so if he was healthy its not unreasonable to think he would have played much better.

[GSP]

I was thinking of what player Caruso reminds me of...and this might be crazy but hes like a guard version of Draymond...........His defensive impact isnt on Draymonds level b/c of size but he communicates alot like him. Is everywhere on the floor. Defends bigger players admirably. Also due to being a guard hes more skilled on offense and can do more on that end of the floor

[70sFan]

I was thinking of what player Caruso reminds me of...and this might be crazy but hes like a guard version of Draymond...........His defensive impact isnt on Draymonds level b/c of size but he communicates alot like him. Is everywhere on the floor. Defends bigger players admirably. Also due to being a guard hes more skilled on offense and can do more on that end of the floor

Sidney Moncrief on defense? What do you think?

[GSP]

I was thinking of what player Caruso reminds me of...and this might be crazy but hes like a guard version of Draymond...........His defensive impact isnt on Draymonds level b/c of size but he communicates alot like him. Is everywhere on the floor. Defends bigger players admirably. Also due to being a guard hes more skilled on offense and can do more on that end of the floor

Sidney Moncrief on defense? What do you think?

Thats a great comp......Sid would prolly even be drawing more charges today too. I think he was the more aggressive defender and Caruso better anticipating passes but overall they have similar styles

[feyki]

Durant remember he can penetrate when the game was over. He need to be aggressive.

[Peregrine01]

Am I the only one who finds it funny that some players are held to lower standard? Durant has been called the best player in the league for years and he's been absolutely terrible so far. Yet nobody says anything about his legacy or him being a "choker". Meanwhile 37 years old Paul has a legacy series in front of him, just absurd...

some players archetypes, personalities and or ring shelves gives them more or less leeway with people

durant has rings and is a all time great scorer which gives him a lot of leeway, the aesthetics of his game also make a lot of people see him as the best plauer since he is the "most unstopabble scorer"

unfortunately nobody is fully unbiased, us here are susceptible to our preference biases too

Yeah, it's incredible how narratives form. They see KD as 7 foot, with a flashy handle, a good jumper, etc etc and basically say "he's unstoppable so when he falls short it's not because he's not good enough, but it's because of some other reason". It's just totally nuts how Westbrook now gets most of the blame for those OKC years when KD played plain poorly again and again in the playoffs when they were together.

[Peregrine01]

I was thinking of what player Caruso reminds me of...and this might be crazy but hes like a guard version of Draymond...........His defensive impact isnt on Draymonds level b/c of size but he communicates alot like him. Is everywhere on the floor. Defends bigger players admirably. Also due to being a guard hes more skilled on offense and can do more on that end of the floor

I said the same thing a few posts above. He plays defense A LOT like Draymond. One reason they're both really good at guarding bigger players is that they don't wait for the bigger guy to initiate contact and blow them back. They're bodying up chest to chest so the bigger guy doesn't get the momentum to barrel his way to the rim. Draymond did it to Jokic and Caruso's doing it to Giannis. You can't sag off a great penetrator because then you'll just end up right under the rim - you have to meet him further away from the basket and slow him there.

[Dutchball97]

Gonna be hard to rationalize Jokic over Joel for Poy at this point. Even if you thought Nikola was better in the Rs it was really close and they were the 2 best Rs players

Joel is dominating a tough matchup now who many were picking to upset Philly and up 3-0 now after a turnaround gamewinner. Jokic on the other hand is getting played off the floor and about to get swept again.

Have you checked the stats for the games yet? Embiid dominating doesn't really add up. Game 1 Embiid shot 33% from the field and had a -3.8 BPM. Then game 2 came around and Embiid has by far the worst +- of the starting line-up and still a negative BPM of -1.3. Now game 3 he finally has an undeniably good game and people act like Embiid has been tearing it up the entire series. Even then his 5.5 BPM really isn't that special and below his season average.

I expected the play-offs to cool off the hot takes surrounding MVP but looks like it is only getting more reactionary.

[weekend_warrior]

Yeah, it's incredible how narratives form. They see KD as 7 foot, with a flashy handle, a good jumper, etc etc and basically say "he's unstoppable so when he falls short it's not because he's not good enough, but it's because of some other reason". It's just totally nuts how Westbrook now gets most of the blame for those OKC years when KD played plain poorly again and again in the playoffs when they were together.

KD is an incredibly talented player but something is lacking. I think he had the perfect surrounding in Golden State where Steph and Draymond were setting the tone culturally, both on and off the court. KD could come in and just do his thing, without worrying about the team or system. On top, Curry unselfishly took a backseat and let Durant get most of the accolades in that time span. KD played incredibly well but it always felt like this "hired gun" situation.

Now KD is back in a place where he should be leading, but the teams seems to lack chemistry a little (even after the Harden fiasco) and to some degree I would say this is on KD and his approach.

[Peregrine01]

Yeah, it's incredible how narratives form. They see KD as 7 foot, with a flashy handle, a good jumper, etc etc and basically say "he's unstoppable so when he falls short it's not because he's not good enough, but it's because of some other reason". It's just totally nuts how Westbrook now gets most of the blame for those OKC years when KD played plain poorly again and again in the playoffs when they were together.

KD is an incredibly talented player but something is lacking. I think he had the perfect surrounding in Golden State where Steph and Draymond were setting the tone culturally, both on and off the court. KD could come in and just do his thing, without worrying about the team or system. On top, Curry unselfishly took a backseat and let Durant get most of the accolades in that time span. KD played incredibly well but it always felt like this "hired gun" situation.

Now KD is back in a place where he should be leading, but the teams seems to lack chemistry a little (even after the Harden fiasco) and to some degree I would say this is on KD and his approach.

I look at KD as a great individual scorer but not a guy who elevates his team's offense the way guys like Curry and Jokic do or even Lebron. As great as his scoring is, he just doesn't really do much to get other guys good looks. He also has a tendency to get bad tunnel vision, which is ironically something that everyone always says about Westbrook.