ImageImageImageImageImage

Jalen Brunson obsession

Moderators: j4remi, HerSports85, NoLayupRule, GONYK, Jeff Van Gully, dakomish23, Deeeez Knicks, mpharris36

User avatar
thebuzzardman
RealGM
Posts: 82,188
And1: 96,128
Joined: Jun 24, 2006
Location: Villanovknicks

Re: Jalen Brunson obsession 

Post#361 » by thebuzzardman » Wed Apr 20, 2022 10:45 am

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
BBALLER4FR wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:

You guys keep saying he's shown that he can, yeah against second units. There's 1 massive problem with his game that some of you don't seem to see, it's that he can't and doesn't get to the rim. How many starting PGs in the league don't put pressure on the rim?


He would have been fine if our coach gave him a starting role. I have no doubts he would have struggled but Quickly would have recognized it, put in work and we'd be good. But Thibs spent the last 2 season insisting Quickley couldn't be a starter. Quick not having experience against starters doesn't mean he can't be successful there. It means our coach has determined he won't get a chance to prove it.




IQ gets to the rim less than Alec Burks, this is probably one of the reasons why he didn't start. He was at 9% of his shots coming within 0-3 feet of the rim, that would be the lowest number by a starting PG if he started, lower than a 35 year old Kyle Lowry. The lack of rim pressure from him is a real problem and not something you just develop, you either get there or you don't.


There's a contigent of Burks haters, and I don't like that he started at PG or played so much, but there's a reason the Knicks were kind of forced to keep him around. Hopefully they'll trade or draft someone who can get near the rim with some kind of efficiency from the guard/wing spot (Cam?) so they can move Burks - where maybe some playoff team could use some scoring off the bench or had an injury or something.
Image
whocares1
RealGM
Posts: 10,125
And1: 6,264
Joined: Oct 31, 2014
     

Re: Jalen Brunson obsession 

Post#362 » by whocares1 » Wed Apr 20, 2022 2:28 pm

KnixtapeH20 wrote:
whocares1 wrote:
KnixtapeH20 wrote:NoDope do u think IQ can develop a mid range game?

I not only know he can but I think we'll see it a lot more this next season. You started seeing him show signs of better point guard olay, like keeping his dribble. Once he stopped thinking so much out there he stopped dribbling the ball into the middle and getting stuck/turned around.

Once he develops that midrange it'll open up his game. He has touch from everywhere it would be crazy to think he can't add that


I honestly think if he becomes a consistent three point shooter then he will be a threat at the rim as well. IQ missed a ton of three pointers early in the season that were essentially wide open. If he becomes consistent then teams will be forced to play him up and he definitely has a quick first step. Will open his inside game and his passing.

Agreed except for the quick first step. It's the fact that he doesn't combined with his lack of dribble that keeps him from getting past his man with ease


I feel like one of the last few games against Miami he showed really good burst and they had a lot of problems staying in front of him but I will say that he certainly doesn’t have an elite first step either.
User avatar
moocow007
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 98,252
And1: 25,712
Joined: Jan 07, 2002
Location: In front of the computer, where else?
       

Re: Jalen Brunson obsession 

Post#363 » by moocow007 » Wed Apr 20, 2022 2:34 pm

whocares1 wrote:
KnixtapeH20 wrote:
whocares1 wrote:
I honestly think if he becomes a consistent three point shooter then he will be a threat at the rim as well. IQ missed a ton of three pointers early in the season that were essentially wide open. If he becomes consistent then teams will be forced to play him up and he definitely has a quick first step. Will open his inside game and his passing.

Agreed except for the quick first step. It's the fact that he doesn't combined with his lack of dribble that keeps him from getting past his man with ease


I feel like one of the last few games against Miami he showed really good burst and they had a lot of problems staying in front of him but I will say that he certainly doesn’t have an elite first step either.


Yeah is first step isn't elite and his handle is still a bit choppy. He is real quick once he builds up steam. Can it be improved? Probably. To the point where he can be considered a top 15 PG (which I think is kinda the goal/wish)? Not sure. He still may be best suited for the Lou Williams type role which is not shabby by any means. He does seem to be adjusting his game. He was attacking more and not wasting time with the trying to draw those fake fouls.
User avatar
RHODEY
RealGM
Posts: 25,301
And1: 22,812
Joined: May 18, 2007
Location: Straight out of a comic book

Re: Jalen Brunson obsession 

Post#364 » by RHODEY » Wed Apr 20, 2022 3:22 pm

bleedblue3303
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,991
And1: 1,131
Joined: Dec 29, 2009

Re: Jalen Brunson obsession 

Post#365 » by bleedblue3303 » Wed Apr 20, 2022 3:40 pm

whocares1 wrote:
bleedblue3303 wrote:
whocares1 wrote:
That is why sports fans hate us lol.



I guess you missed the part and comparison where I said for 2.2 Million a year. Big difference between 20 and 2. If we paying 20 plus should be an all star.


Regardless you compared the two situations and the differences far outweigh the similarities to even fathom a comparison. Like it’s not even remotely close and 20 million isn’t an all star anymore. All stars make more than that.


So what your saying is your choosing to use one part of my comparison and leave out the other solely for the purpose of trying to prove your point. That would be like trying to prove its dark during the day and leaving out today was an eclipse.

PS
the best teams have the biggest disparity in payroll. Very few 15 million plus non all-stars Stars get max everyone else gets scraps. That would now give us 3 Bronson, Randle and Fournier. But what do I know.
fatalogic
Veteran
Posts: 2,745
And1: 2,147
Joined: Apr 26, 2017
 

Re: Jalen Brunson obsession 

Post#366 » by fatalogic » Wed Apr 20, 2022 6:12 pm

I think they have to get him. At first, I was resistant because I want IQ to start but I think Brunson being here would be the best thing for IQ in the long run. Brunson could be a great mentor and competitor for IQ. We already know IQ is a workhorse, competing for the starting position against Brunson could be what he needs to unlock his potential.

Brunson is also solid enough that if IQ doesn't pan out the way fans like me think, he can be a solid lead guard for the next few years. At 20 mil a year at a highly valuable position he should be easy to move if IQ turns out to be better. On the other hand, if Brunson is just flat out better long term, IQ will probably be a key piece in a star trade. Win-Win imo.
WargamesX
RealGM
Posts: 10,843
And1: 8,101
Joined: Apr 10, 2017
   

Re: Jalen Brunson obsession 

Post#367 » by WargamesX » Thu Apr 21, 2022 2:30 am

Between the fact Dallas can just pay him with bird rights and the Knicks making it too obvious they want a player (like the always do :banghead:). I don’t think hey get Brunson
Matthew 6:5
Luke 15:3-7
8516knicks
General Manager
Posts: 8,595
And1: 6,487
Joined: May 18, 2017
   

Re: Jalen Brunson obsession 

Post#368 » by 8516knicks » Thu Apr 21, 2022 3:17 am

WargamesX wrote:Between the fact Dallas can just pay him with bird rights and the Knicks making it too obvious they want a player (like the always do :banghead:). I don’t think hey get Brunson


Don't think they get him either but kinda fun seeing all the starf*cker chasers on the board in agony as the Nets are down 2-0 with their saintly duo of Flat Earth Kyrie and KD. :lol: :D
User avatar
dakomish23
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 58,788
And1: 48,762
Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Location: Empire State
     

Re: Jalen Brunson obsession 

Post#369 » by dakomish23 » Thu Apr 21, 2022 3:59 am

8516knicks wrote:
WargamesX wrote:Between the fact Dallas can just pay him with bird rights and the Knicks making it too obvious they want a player (like the always do :banghead:). I don’t think hey get Brunson


Don't think they get him either but kinda fun seeing all the starf*cker chasers on the board in agony as the Nets are down 2-0 with their saintly duo of Flat Earth Kyrie and KD. :lol: :D


You just jinxed it and now BKN is winning it all :noway: :banghead: :nonono:
Jimmit79 wrote:Yea RJ played well he was definitely the x factor


#FreeJimmit
User avatar
dakomish23
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 58,788
And1: 48,762
Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Location: Empire State
     

Re: Jalen Brunson obsession 

Post#370 » by dakomish23 » Thu Apr 21, 2022 4:00 am

thebuzzardman wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
BBALLER4FR wrote:
He would have been fine if our coach gave him a starting role. I have no doubts he would have struggled but Quickly would have recognized it, put in work and we'd be good. But Thibs spent the last 2 season insisting Quickley couldn't be a starter. Quick not having experience against starters doesn't mean he can't be successful there. It means our coach has determined he won't get a chance to prove it.



IQ gets to the rim less than Alec Burks, this is probably one of the reasons why he didn't start. He was at 9% of his shots coming within 0-3 feet of the rim, that would be the lowest number by a starting PG if he started, lower than a 35 year old Kyle Lowry. The lack of rim pressure from him is a real problem and not something you just develop, you either get there or you don't.


There's a contigent of Burks haters, and I don't like that he started at PG or played so much, but there's a reason the Knicks were kind of forced to keep him around. Hopefully they'll trade or draft someone who can get near the rim with some kind of efficiency from the guard/wing spot (Cam?) so they can move Burks - where maybe some playoff team could use some scoring off the bench or had an injury or something.


There’s a contingent? Let me know who’s part of it. I’ll have shirts made
Jimmit79 wrote:Yea RJ played well he was definitely the x factor


#FreeJimmit
User avatar
thebuzzardman
RealGM
Posts: 82,188
And1: 96,128
Joined: Jun 24, 2006
Location: Villanovknicks

Re: Jalen Brunson obsession 

Post#371 » by thebuzzardman » Thu Apr 21, 2022 9:25 am

dakomish23 wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:

IQ gets to the rim less than Alec Burks, this is probably one of the reasons why he didn't start. He was at 9% of his shots coming within 0-3 feet of the rim, that would be the lowest number by a starting PG if he started, lower than a 35 year old Kyle Lowry. The lack of rim pressure from him is a real problem and not something you just develop, you either get there or you don't.


There's a contigent of Burks haters, and I don't like that he started at PG or played so much, but there's a reason the Knicks were kind of forced to keep him around. Hopefully they'll trade or draft someone who can get near the rim with some kind of efficiency from the guard/wing spot (Cam?) so they can move Burks - where maybe some playoff team could use some scoring off the bench or had an injury or something.


There’s a contingent? Let me know who’s part of it. I’ll have shirts made


3/4's of the board. You'll get a bulk deal!
Image
User avatar
thebuzzardman
RealGM
Posts: 82,188
And1: 96,128
Joined: Jun 24, 2006
Location: Villanovknicks

Re: Jalen Brunson obsession 

Post#372 » by thebuzzardman » Thu Apr 21, 2022 9:44 am

moocow007 wrote:
whocares1 wrote:
KnixtapeH20 wrote:Agreed except for the quick first step. It's the fact that he doesn't combined with his lack of dribble that keeps him from getting past his man with ease


I feel like one of the last few games against Miami he showed really good burst and they had a lot of problems staying in front of him but I will say that he certainly doesn’t have an elite first step either.


Yeah is first step isn't elite and his handle is still a bit choppy. He is real quick once he builds up steam. Can it be improved? Probably. To the point where he can be considered a top 15 PG (which I think is kinda the goal/wish)? Not sure. He still may be best suited for the Lou Williams type role which is not shabby by any means. He does seem to be adjusting his game. He was attacking more and not wasting time with the trying to draw those fake fouls.


I think there were three noticeable improvements by IQ, important to playing PG, but helpful in being a guard in general too.

I'm not going to try to pin down when they showed up, other than they weren't apparent at the beginning of the year, and it feels like it was the halfway mark at least, and definitely post all star break for all 3.

Quicker getting into the offense and less east west dribbling. This was noticeable before the others, he still did it at the beginning of the year, it got better first and earliest in the year

Better decision making, better at running the offense, making better reads. Better passing and making good passes. The passes are I guess part of "reads", but the passing in and of itself got better. He's not going to be Kidd or even LaMelo or even Giddy, but he can be good enough - in this aspect, I think.

Drove the ball more than last year, but I'm not going to say it's enough or a strength. Also took a some pull up midrange jumpers late in the year - again, not a lot, but the fact they are in the repertoire suggests knowledge on his part and the coaching staff it's needed and worked on. Also, both he and RJ have added that drive, stop, pivot and jumpshot which adds a solid game shot and a kind of counter if contested near the rim, and that's GOT to be Johnny Bryant, since both guys suddenly starting doing it this year. Good move for two guys not naturally great at finishing near the hoop.

Most promising at being a more valuable guard or a rotational PG is change of pace and hesitation dribble. This I really noticed after the all star break, where he was using it often and effectively. IQ doesn't have enough "handle" in terms of tons of adept stuff other top guards can do and it's been stated that doesn't appear in the NBA. A player has either been doing it their whole life and "has it" or they don't. If that's so, then I think at least change of pace/hesitation can be added, and for IQ it has. If IQ can get that whole Andre Miller hesitation down, (and he doesn't have to be at that level) he'll be good.

This list of 4 things isn't to hype him up. I didn't say he's great at them, or if he does them all he be awesome. It's that he had a solid year for a 1st year player, showing real energy, balls and at least at first, shooting skill. The shooting tailed off, but solid rookie year for a guy drafted near mid 20s, needed some work, still a bit of a project, like a lot of young players are.
He got better at stuff in his 2nd year.
It did take all year for it to show, though. He looked pretty bad first half.
Image
User avatar
KnixtapeH20
RealGM
Posts: 10,770
And1: 16,574
Joined: Feb 08, 2021
     

Re: Jalen Brunson obsession 

Post#373 » by KnixtapeH20 » Thu Apr 21, 2022 2:28 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
whocares1 wrote:
I feel like one of the last few games against Miami he showed really good burst and they had a lot of problems staying in front of him but I will say that he certainly doesn’t have an elite first step either.


Yeah is first step isn't elite and his handle is still a bit choppy. He is real quick once he builds up steam. Can it be improved? Probably. To the point where he can be considered a top 15 PG (which I think is kinda the goal/wish)? Not sure. He still may be best suited for the Lou Williams type role which is not shabby by any means. He does seem to be adjusting his game. He was attacking more and not wasting time with the trying to draw those fake fouls.


I think there were three noticeable improvements by IQ, important to playing PG, but helpful in being a guard in general too.

I'm not going to try to pin down when they showed up, other than they weren't apparent at the beginning of the year, and it feels like it was the halfway mark at least, and definitely post all star break for all 3.

Quicker getting into the offense and less east west dribbling. This was noticeable before the others, he still did it at the beginning of the year, it got better first and earliest in the year

Better decision making, better at running the offense, making better reads. Better passing and making good passes. The passes are I guess part of "reads", but the passing in and of itself got better. He's not going to be Kidd or even LaMelo or even Giddy, but he can be good enough - in this aspect, I think.

Drove the ball more than last year, but I'm not going to say it's enough or a strength. Also took a some pull up midrange jumpers late in the year - again, not a lot, but the fact they are in the repertoire suggests knowledge on his part and the coaching staff it's needed and worked on. Also, both he and RJ have added that drive, stop, pivot and jumpshot which adds a solid game shot and a kind of counter if contested near the rim, and that's GOT to be Johnny Bryant, since both guys suddenly starting doing it this year. Good move for two guys not naturally great at finishing near the hoop.

Most promising at being a more valuable guard or a rotational PG is change of pace and hesitation dribble. This I really noticed after the all star break, where he was using it often and effectively. IQ doesn't have enough "handle" in terms of tons of adept stuff other top guards can do and it's been stated that doesn't appear in the NBA. A player has either been doing it their whole life and "has it" or they don't. If that's so, then I think at least change of pace/hesitation can be added, and for IQ it has. If IQ can get that whole Andre Miller hesitation down, (and he doesn't have to be at that level) he'll be good.

This list of 4 things isn't to hype him up. I didn't say he's great at them, or if he does them all he be awesome. It's that he had a solid year for a 1st year player, showing real energy, balls and at least at first, shooting skill. The shooting tailed off, but solid rookie year for a guy drafted near mid 20s, needed some work, still a bit of a project, like a lot of young players are.
He got better at stuff in his 2nd year.
It did take all year for it to show, though. He looked pretty bad first half.

Yeaand add to that he started keeping his dribble which is very important, even Clyde mentioned it on the broadcast. That wa the one thing about IQ that was driving us nuts. Now he no longer dribbles into the paint and gets stuck. Really hope they give him a chance
User avatar
dakomish23
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 58,788
And1: 48,762
Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Location: Empire State
     

Re: Jalen Brunson obsession 

Post#374 » by dakomish23 » Thu Apr 21, 2022 2:59 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
There's a contigent of Burks haters, and I don't like that he started at PG or played so much, but there's a reason the Knicks were kind of forced to keep him around. Hopefully they'll trade or draft someone who can get near the rim with some kind of efficiency from the guard/wing spot (Cam?) so they can move Burks - where maybe some playoff team could use some scoring off the bench or had an injury or something.


There’s a contingent? Let me know who’s part of it. I’ll have shirts made


3/4's of the board. You'll get a bulk deal!


:lol: I can finally use a tshirt cannon!



Real talk, I’ve said it all year. Burks as a 3PT shooter who only tried to create when defenses close out is useful. Thibs, the worst coach in the NBA, gave him the green light to pretend he’s Kobe. So I don’t dump all of it on Burks. He looked like a different guy when it was him and the kids, IMO.
Jimmit79 wrote:Yea RJ played well he was definitely the x factor


#FreeJimmit
User avatar
dakomish23
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 58,788
And1: 48,762
Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Location: Empire State
     

Re: Jalen Brunson obsession 

Post#375 » by dakomish23 » Thu Apr 21, 2022 3:01 pm

Nothing sinks a team more than poor PG play. Brunson isn’t likely to ever be a top 10 PG, but having someone that could at his peak be in the 15-20 range will do wonders for this roster.
Jimmit79 wrote:Yea RJ played well he was definitely the x factor


#FreeJimmit
User avatar
sol537
RealGM
Posts: 15,388
And1: 7,961
Joined: Nov 07, 2001

Re: Jalen Brunson obsession 

Post#376 » by sol537 » Thu Apr 21, 2022 3:51 pm

Mitch Rob for Brunson in a S&T would be fine w/ me. Or even Randle in a 3-team. The key would be Brunson wanting to come home to NY and for Dal to want to avoid the tax so they can get a lower salaried player in Mitch...
Jay10
RealGM
Posts: 39,014
And1: 13,269
Joined: Feb 01, 2010
Location: New York

Re: Jalen Brunson obsession 

Post#377 » by Jay10 » Thu Apr 21, 2022 3:57 pm

sol537 wrote:Mitch Rob for Brunson in a S&T would be fine w/ me. Or even Randle in a 3-team. The key would be Brunson wanting to come home to NY and for Dal to want to avoid the tax so they can get a lower salaried player in Mitch...


Dallas could just send Jalen Brunson(sign and trade) and THJr. + filler(s) to Utah for Rudy Gobert.
Jimmit79
Head Coach
Posts: 7,439
And1: 5,252
Joined: Mar 22, 2016
     

Re: Jalen Brunson obsession 

Post#378 » by Jimmit79 » Thu Apr 21, 2022 6:00 pm

I remember lot of Knicks fans wanted brunson added in KP trade but Mills the genius settled for Dsjr.
User avatar
Deeeez Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 49,345
And1: 55,337
Joined: Nov 12, 2004

Re: Jalen Brunson obsession 

Post#379 » by Deeeez Knicks » Thu Apr 21, 2022 6:06 pm

Another classic Grant Hill case where knicks are used to drive up the price. I'm ok with that just to make Dallas pay more. That's all we got. We should hang jerseys for all the times we were Grant Hill'd
Mavs
C: Horford | Goga | Paul Reed |
PF: Lauri Markkanen | Randle | Tucker
SF: Trey Murphy | Trent | Anderson | Simone
SG: Vassell | Trent | Livingston
PG: Spida | Mann | Deuce
User avatar
RHODEY
RealGM
Posts: 25,301
And1: 22,812
Joined: May 18, 2007
Location: Straight out of a comic book

Re: Jalen Brunson obsession 

Post#380 » by RHODEY » Thu Apr 21, 2022 7:54 pm

Return to New York Knicks