Jalen Brunson obsession

[HarthorneWingo]

Now the Pacers are entering the Jalen Brunson sweepstakes. That means we’re going to have to get into a bidding war to secure his services.

I’d rather just go with IQ.

Seriously? Lol. You have to pay when you want good players. That's how the NBA works.

Paying for good-not-great vets when you’re a lotto team on 5-year minimum timeline: That’s how the Knicks work.

The only reason Brunson (or any veteran player or any talented coach/executive) would come here is if we win a bidding war. Well, that and cronyism.

Signing him would be a trash move for both sides, so I could definitely see it happening.

At this point, I'd be surprised if it didn't.

[G_K_F]

It looks the offspring of the devil himself are now getting involved in the franchise.

JAZZ UPSET
Knicks executives have been making the rounds during the playoffs. On Thursday, Knicks consultant Gersson Rosas was at the Timberwolves-Grizzles playoff game. Rosas was photographed with Quinten Dolan, Knicks owner James Dolan’s son.

According to The Athletic, Rosas - the former Timberwolves top executive - took Dolan on a tour of the team’s practice facility.

Read on Twitter

?s=21&t=uLkSBBdGqAjf8xx4ZHj2vg

Another Jeff Wilpon in the making.

[thebuzzardman]

It looks the offspring of the devil himself are now getting involved in the franchise.

JAZZ UPSET
Knicks executives have been making the rounds during the playoffs. On Thursday, Knicks consultant Gersson Rosas was at the Timberwolves-Grizzles playoff game. Rosas was photographed with Quinten Dolan, Knicks owner James Dolan’s son.

According to The Athletic, Rosas - the former Timberwolves top executive - took Dolan on a tour of the team’s practice facility.

Read on Twitter

?s=21&t=uLkSBBdGqAjf8xx4ZHj2vg

Another Jeff Wilpon in the making.

Future owner of the Knicks:

Rich, stupid, roid bro:

[Nazrmohamed]

Seriously? Lol. You have to pay when you want good players. That's how the NBA works.

Paying for good-not-great vets when you’re a lotto team on 5-year minimum timeline: That’s how the Knicks work.

The only reason Brunson (or any veteran player or any talented coach/executive) would come here is if we win a bidding war. Well, that and cronyism.

Signing him would be a trash move for both sides, so I could definitely see it happening.

At this point, I'd be surprised if it didn't.

Idk if we really have to be on a 5 yr timeline though. I think allot of knick fans the second we ran into any trouble wanted to jump straight back into lottery for life mode. First of all you if you truly think it's a 5 yr plan then you might as well let Mitch walk, then it's possible RJ himself maybe timed out of a 5 yr plan cuz that means we'll probably somewhere along that timeline need to extend him to a rookie end max deal. Tell me, you wanna be paying RJ 20plus mil to lead a lottery team? And I'm not saying you don't trade Randle or attempt to build around RJ but the length of time you guys are talking about tanking you're more likely to draft somebody better than RJ along the way anyway, which wouldn't be the worst thing but just saying.To me even if we are trading Randle for a rebuilding situation it should be more of a fast rebuild. I might trade Randle for a veteran PG who can guide younger players similar to what Paul's doing in Pheonix or what Nash did in Pheonix when he had a young Amare, Marrion and company.


But look I'm not here to tell anyone how to feel. I've watched this team stink so long that I can at least empathize with just about every phase we could be at and have grown to belive that at each stage you can do it right or do it wrong. We could rebuild the wrong way same as we could go after a superstar the wrong way.

So I dissagree in that I think Brunson could end up fitting into any scenario. In a world in which you bring everyone back including Randle, he fits a legitimate hole we had at PG. I mean, Randle seemed like our only problem around here but we didn't have a PG all yr folks. And as much as I like IQ if your goal is to win then I would hope he sticks around a d keeps developing but I'm looking for a bonafide starting PG.

But then if your goal is to rebuild around the youth, again Brunson could serve as the elder PG who sort of organizes the team. He'll make RJ look better, make Reddish look better. Yeah it comes at the expense of starting IQ but we don't HAVE TO keep Derreck Rose either. He can go along with Randle and then maybe not starting but IQ would be right in line as a backup combo guard.

Brunson ain't my sole target folks. Don't come at me. I'm just showing how he could work. It's best actually if you don't fall in love with any single source of player.

[cgmw]

Paying for good-not-great vets when you’re a lotto team on 5-year minimum timeline: That’s how the Knicks work.

The only reason Brunson (or any veteran player or any talented coach/executive) would come here is if we win a bidding war. Well, that and cronyism.

Signing him would be a trash move for both sides, so I could definitely see it happening.

At this point, I'd be surprised if it didn't.

Idk if we really have to be on a 5 yr timeline though. I think allot of knick fans the second we ran into any trouble wanted to jump straight back into lottery for life mode. First of all you if you truly think it's a 5 yr plan then you might as well let Mitch walk, then it's possible RJ himself maybe timed out of a 5 yr plan cuz that means we'll probably somewhere along that timeline need to extend him to a rookie end max deal. Tell me, you wanna be paying RJ 20plus mil to lead a lottery team? And I'm not saying you don't trade Randle or attempt to build around RJ but the length of time you guys are talking about tanking you're more likely to draft somebody better than RJ along the way anyway, which wouldn't be the worst thing but just saying.To me even if we are trading Randle for a rebuilding situation it should be more of a fast rebuild. I might trade Randle for a veteran PG who can guide younger players similar to what Paul's doing in Pheonix or what Nash did in Pheonix when he had a young Amare, Marrion and company.


But look I'm not here to tell anyone how to feel. I've watched this team stink so long that I can at least empathize with just about every phase we could be at and have grown to belive that at each stage you can do it right or do it wrong. We could rebuild the wrong way same as we could go after a superstar the wrong way.

So I dissagree in that I think Brunson could end up fitting into any scenario. In a world in which you bring everyone back including Randle, he fits a legitimate hole we had at PG. I mean, Randle seemed like our only problem around here but we didn't have a PG all yr folks. And as much as I like IQ if your goal is to win then I would hope he sticks around a d keeps developing but I'm looking for a bonafide starting PG.

But then if your goal is to rebuild around the youth, again Brunson could serve as the elder PG who sort of organizes the team. He'll make RJ look better, make Reddish look better. Yeah it comes at the expense of starting IQ but we don't HAVE TO keep Derreck Rose either. He can go along with Randle and then maybe not starting but IQ would be right in line as a backup combo guard.

Brunson ain't my sole target folks. Don't come at me. I'm just showing how he could work. It's best actually if you don't fall in love with any single source of player.

5-year was generous. It’s been 21 years since we’ve seen anything approaching consistent winning.

The window to rebuild was 3 years ago when we hit on RJ. The moves since then, including hiring Leon/Thibs, have been exactly the same delusional self-sabotage we’ve seen for decades. Signing Randle (both times), Portis, Morris, Bullock, Burks, Elfrid, Noel, Fournier, Walker, and trading for D Rose — yes absolutely the combined effect of those delusions is to set the franchise back at least 5 years.

And yes, you are correct. It is now too late for the Knicks to win on RJ’s rookie contract. Or Mitch’s. If Dolan hired an actual basketball man to run a proper show, they would be forced to trade RJ for future picks and rebuild properly moving forward.

Dolan refuses to admit that no savior is coming in FA. He hired Leon in a delusional hope of Starphucking via cronyism. It isn’t working out.

In the case of a Jim-Dolan organization, the ONE and only hope is a proper rebuild over multiple years because (precisely because) the only way you can convince a talented NBA superstar to play for Dolan is if you force him via the draft.

So yes, it’s far too late with Brunson and we’d just be digging the hole even deeper. If Brunson wants to take a massive payday to lose for Dolan, Godspeed. If he wants to bet on his Godfather to Starphuck his way out of trouble, I wish them both nothing but luck. It’s a fool’s bet, but hey even a broken clock is right twice a day. So maybe these fools are due?

[Chanel Bomber]

At this point, I'd be surprised if it didn't.

Idk if we really have to be on a 5 yr timeline though. I think allot of knick fans the second we ran into any trouble wanted to jump straight back into lottery for life mode. First of all you if you truly think it's a 5 yr plan then you might as well let Mitch walk, then it's possible RJ himself maybe timed out of a 5 yr plan cuz that means we'll probably somewhere along that timeline need to extend him to a rookie end max deal. Tell me, you wanna be paying RJ 20plus mil to lead a lottery team? And I'm not saying you don't trade Randle or attempt to build around RJ but the length of time you guys are talking about tanking you're more likely to draft somebody better than RJ along the way anyway, which wouldn't be the worst thing but just saying.To me even if we are trading Randle for a rebuilding situation it should be more of a fast rebuild. I might trade Randle for a veteran PG who can guide younger players similar to what Paul's doing in Pheonix or what Nash did in Pheonix when he had a young Amare, Marrion and company.


But look I'm not here to tell anyone how to feel. I've watched this team stink so long that I can at least empathize with just about every phase we could be at and have grown to belive that at each stage you can do it right or do it wrong. We could rebuild the wrong way same as we could go after a superstar the wrong way.

So I dissagree in that I think Brunson could end up fitting into any scenario. In a world in which you bring everyone back including Randle, he fits a legitimate hole we had at PG. I mean, Randle seemed like our only problem around here but we didn't have a PG all yr folks. And as much as I like IQ if your goal is to win then I would hope he sticks around a d keeps developing but I'm looking for a bonafide starting PG.

But then if your goal is to rebuild around the youth, again Brunson could serve as the elder PG who sort of organizes the team. He'll make RJ look better, make Reddish look better. Yeah it comes at the expense of starting IQ but we don't HAVE TO keep Derreck Rose either. He can go along with Randle and then maybe not starting but IQ would be right in line as a backup combo guard.

Brunson ain't my sole target folks. Don't come at me. I'm just showing how he could work. It's best actually if you don't fall in love with any single source of player.

5-year was generous. It’s been 21 years since we’ve seen anything approaching consistent winning.

The window to rebuild was 3 years ago when we hit on RJ. The moves since then, including hiring Leon/Thibs, have been exactly the same delusional self-sabotage we’ve seen for decades. Signing Randle (both times), Portis, Morris, Bullock, Burks, Elfrid, Noel, Fournier, Walker, and trading for D Rose — yes absolutely the combined effect of those delusions is to set the franchise back at least 5 years.

And yes, you are correct. It is now too late for the Knicks to win on RJ’s rookie contract. Or Mitch’s. If Dolan hired an actual basketball man to run a proper show, they would be forced to trade RJ for future picks and rebuild properly moving forward.

Dolan refuses to admit that no savior is coming in FA. He hired Leon in a delusional hope of Starphucking via cronyism. It isn’t working out.

In the case of a Jim-Dolan organization, the ONE and only hope is a proper rebuild over multiple years because (precisely because) the only way you can convince a talented NBA superstar to play for Dolan is if you force him via the draft.

So yes, it’s far too late with Brunson and we’d just be digging the hole even deeper. If Brunson wants to take a massive payday to lose for Dolan, Godspeed. If he wants to bet on his Godfather to Starphuck his way out of trouble, I wish them both nothing but luck. It’s a fool’s bet, but hey even a broken clock is right twice a day. So maybe these fool’s are due?

These stars don't care about James Dolan as much as they care about winning.

They want to join infrastructures with a track record of winning, or with overwhelming talent. Dolan hasn't been able to build that infrastructure, because the people he has hired to run basketball ops have all been incompetent. And that's his responsibility.

It's more about execution than anything. The Knicks draft Bam or Mitchell over Frank for instance and we're having a completely different conversation. The Jazz and the Heat weren't tanking either - they were trying to win games and it didn't prevent those guys from developing into legitimate NBA stars.

[cgmw]

Idk if we really have to be on a 5 yr timeline though. I think allot of knick fans the second we ran into any trouble wanted to jump straight back into lottery for life mode. First of all you if you truly think it's a 5 yr plan then you might as well let Mitch walk, then it's possible RJ himself maybe timed out of a 5 yr plan cuz that means we'll probably somewhere along that timeline need to extend him to a rookie end max deal. Tell me, you wanna be paying RJ 20plus mil to lead a lottery team? And I'm not saying you don't trade Randle or attempt to build around RJ but the length of time you guys are talking about tanking you're more likely to draft somebody better than RJ along the way anyway, which wouldn't be the worst thing but just saying.To me even if we are trading Randle for a rebuilding situation it should be more of a fast rebuild. I might trade Randle for a veteran PG who can guide younger players similar to what Paul's doing in Pheonix or what Nash did in Pheonix when he had a young Amare, Marrion and company.


But look I'm not here to tell anyone how to feel. I've watched this team stink so long that I can at least empathize with just about every phase we could be at and have grown to belive that at each stage you can do it right or do it wrong. We could rebuild the wrong way same as we could go after a superstar the wrong way.

So I dissagree in that I think Brunson could end up fitting into any scenario. In a world in which you bring everyone back including Randle, he fits a legitimate hole we had at PG. I mean, Randle seemed like our only problem around here but we didn't have a PG all yr folks. And as much as I like IQ if your goal is to win then I would hope he sticks around a d keeps developing but I'm looking for a bonafide starting PG.

But then if your goal is to rebuild around the youth, again Brunson could serve as the elder PG who sort of organizes the team. He'll make RJ look better, make Reddish look better. Yeah it comes at the expense of starting IQ but we don't HAVE TO keep Derreck Rose either. He can go along with Randle and then maybe not starting but IQ would be right in line as a backup combo guard.

Brunson ain't my sole target folks. Don't come at me. I'm just showing how he could work. It's best actually if you don't fall in love with any single source of player.

5-year was generous. It’s been 21 years since we’ve seen anything approaching consistent winning.

The window to rebuild was 3 years ago when we hit on RJ. The moves since then, including hiring Leon/Thibs, have been exactly the same delusional self-sabotage we’ve seen for decades. Signing Randle (both times), Portis, Morris, Bullock, Burks, Elfrid, Noel, Fournier, Walker, and trading for D Rose — yes absolutely the combined effect of those delusions is to set the franchise back at least 5 years.

And yes, you are correct. It is now too late for the Knicks to win on RJ’s rookie contract. Or Mitch’s. If Dolan hired an actual basketball man to run a proper show, they would be forced to trade RJ for future picks and rebuild properly moving forward.

Dolan refuses to admit that no savior is coming in FA. He hired Leon in a delusional hope of Starphucking via cronyism. It isn’t working out.

In the case of a Jim-Dolan organization, the ONE and only hope is a proper rebuild over multiple years because (precisely because) the only way you can convince a talented NBA superstar to play for Dolan is if you force him via the draft.

So yes, it’s far too late with Brunson and we’d just be digging the hole even deeper. If Brunson wants to take a massive payday to lose for Dolan, Godspeed. If he wants to bet on his Godfather to Starphuck his way out of trouble, I wish them both nothing but luck. It’s a fool’s bet, but hey even a broken clock is right twice a day. So maybe these fool’s are due?

These stars don't care about James Dolan as much as they care about winning.

They want to join infrastructures with a track record of winning, or with overwhelming talent. Dolan hasn't been able to build that infrastructure, because the people he has hired to run basketball ops have all been incompetent. And that's his responsibility.

It's more about execution than anything. The Knicks draft Bam or Mitchell over Frank for instance and we're having a completely different conversation. The Jazz and the Heat weren't tanking either - they were trying to win games and it didn't prevent those guys from developing into legitimate NBA stars.

That’s a very convenient (and hubristic) narrative that requires a lot of imagination.

“If we drafted Donovan or Bam over Frank,” then: Dolan’s delusional incompetent clown car would have crashed by now. Bam wouldn’t be the same Bam he is today after being groomed under Riley and Spolstra’s actual program of longterm success.

And Donovan’s raw talent would have overloaded Dolan’s idiot circuitry. You want to paint a picture like we’d be good if we just had better “talent evaluation” while conveniently ignoring the highly probable outcome of Dolan f*cking it up by desperately trying to pretend Donovan is better than he actually is by installing a high-usage isolation offense while overpaying a bunch of mediocre talent around him like we saw with Carmelo.

You really want to blame the executives when the executives were hired explicitly because they promised to build the team through patchwork shortcuts meant to prop up their boss’s little ego. Whoever evaluated Fournier, Walker, Randle’s extension, and Burks at PG have bigger problems than not being draft savants. It’s endemic and starts with the owner.

I’m sorry if that’s depressing, but history is on my side. Dolan himself is the common denominator. Is talent evaluation a problem? Yes. But throw it on the dung heap with the rest of them.

[Chanel Bomber]

5-year was generous. It’s been 21 years since we’ve seen anything approaching consistent winning.

The window to rebuild was 3 years ago when we hit on RJ. The moves since then, including hiring Leon/Thibs, have been exactly the same delusional self-sabotage we’ve seen for decades. Signing Randle (both times), Portis, Morris, Bullock, Burks, Elfrid, Noel, Fournier, Walker, and trading for D Rose — yes absolutely the combined effect of those delusions is to set the franchise back at least 5 years.

And yes, you are correct. It is now too late for the Knicks to win on RJ’s rookie contract. Or Mitch’s. If Dolan hired an actual basketball man to run a proper show, they would be forced to trade RJ for future picks and rebuild properly moving forward.

Dolan refuses to admit that no savior is coming in FA. He hired Leon in a delusional hope of Starphucking via cronyism. It isn’t working out.

In the case of a Jim-Dolan organization, the ONE and only hope is a proper rebuild over multiple years because (precisely because) the only way you can convince a talented NBA superstar to play for Dolan is if you force him via the draft.

So yes, it’s far too late with Brunson and we’d just be digging the hole even deeper. If Brunson wants to take a massive payday to lose for Dolan, Godspeed. If he wants to bet on his Godfather to Starphuck his way out of trouble, I wish them both nothing but luck. It’s a fool’s bet, but hey even a broken clock is right twice a day. So maybe these fool’s are due?

These stars don't care about James Dolan as much as they care about winning.

They want to join infrastructures with a track record of winning, or with overwhelming talent. Dolan hasn't been able to build that infrastructure, because the people he has hired to run basketball ops have all been incompetent. And that's his responsibility.

It's more about execution than anything. The Knicks draft Bam or Mitchell over Frank for instance and we're having a completely different conversation. The Jazz and the Heat weren't tanking either - they were trying to win games and it didn't prevent those guys from developing into legitimate NBA stars.

That’s a very convenient (and hubristic) narrative that requires a lot of imagination.

“If we drafted Donovan or Bam over Frank,” then: Dolan’s delusional incompetent clown car would have crashed by now. Bam wouldn’t be the same Bam he is today after being groomed under Riley and Spolstra’s actual program of longterm success.

And Donovan’s raw talent would have overloaded Dolan’s idiot circuitry. You want to paint a picture like we’d be good if we just had better “talent evaluation” while conveniently ignoring the highly probable outcome of Dolan f*cking it up by desperately trying to pretend Donovan is better than he actually is by installing a high-usage isolation offense while overpaying a bunch of mediocre talent around him like we saw with Carmelo.

You really want to blame the executives when the executives were hired explicitly because they promised to build the team through patchwork shortcuts meant to prop up their boss’s little ego.

I’m sorry if that’s depressing, but history is on my side. Dolan himself is the common denominator. Is talent evaluation a problem? Yes. But throw it on the dung heap with the rest of them.

I agree he's the common denominator.

But you can't separate the overarching pattern of failure without looking at execution. Poor execution is precisely how the pattern of failure materializes in the first place.

In any case, you seemed to express that stars don't want to "play for" Dolan, and my point was that I believe these players don't care about Dolan as much as they care about winning and talent. Chris Paul resigned with the Sterling Clippers, and Sarver's Suns. LeBron re-signed with Gilbert's Cavaliers. They want to win - and the Knicks don't have the infrastructure in place to offer that, largely because of talent.

[cgmw]

These stars don't care about James Dolan as much as they care about winning.

They want to join infrastructures with a track record of winning, or with overwhelming talent. Dolan hasn't been able to build that infrastructure, because the people he has hired to run basketball ops have all been incompetent. And that's his responsibility.

It's more about execution than anything. The Knicks draft Bam or Mitchell over Frank for instance and we're having a completely different conversation. The Jazz and the Heat weren't tanking either - they were trying to win games and it didn't prevent those guys from developing into legitimate NBA stars.

That’s a very convenient (and hubristic) narrative that requires a lot of imagination.

“If we drafted Donovan or Bam over Frank,” then: Dolan’s delusional incompetent clown car would have crashed by now. Bam wouldn’t be the same Bam he is today after being groomed under Riley and Spolstra’s actual program of longterm success.

And Donovan’s raw talent would have overloaded Dolan’s idiot circuitry. You want to paint a picture like we’d be good if we just had better “talent evaluation” while conveniently ignoring the highly probable outcome of Dolan f*cking it up by desperately trying to pretend Donovan is better than he actually is by installing a high-usage isolation offense while overpaying a bunch of mediocre talent around him like we saw with Carmelo.

You really want to blame the executives when the executives were hired explicitly because they promised to build the team through patchwork shortcuts meant to prop up their boss’s little ego.

I’m sorry if that’s depressing, but history is on my side. Dolan himself is the common denominator. Is talent evaluation a problem? Yes. But throw it on the dung heap with the rest of them.

I agree he's the common denominator.

But you can't separate the overarching pattern of failure without looking at execution. Poor execution is precisely how the pattern of failure materializes in the first place.

In any case, you seemed to express that stars don't want to "play for" Dolan, and my point was that I believe these players don't care about Dolan as much as they care about winning and talent. Chris Paul resigned with the Sterling Clippers, and Sarver's Suns. LeBron re-signed with Gilbert's Cavaliers. They want to win - and the Knicks don't have the infrastructure in place to offer that, largely because of talent.

I agree. And why don’t the Knicks have the infrastructure?

How can Leon be good at talent evaluation when his boss’s executive search (talent evaluation) process was secretive, lacking input or oversight, and included kicking Steve Mills upstairs to the board of directors thus refusing accountability for decades of failure tracing a direct line all the way back to Isiah?

Answer: it can’t. Leon Rose is and always has been doomed to failure here.

Mickey Arinson and any sane owner does whatever it takes to find the best executives, then stands back in a mostly hands-off approach. Look at the turnaround Joe Lacob achieved in GS. It wasn’t JUST the luck of landing Curry. It was also executing a proper business plan by finding highly qualified executives and turning over decision-making to them.

Leon was hired through a dysfunctional idiotic process shrouded in secrecy, cronyism, and lies. He therefore has very little-to-no chance of success and neither would Rick Brunson’s son.

[Chanel Bomber]

That’s a very convenient (and hubristic) narrative that requires a lot of imagination.

“If we drafted Donovan or Bam over Frank,” then: Dolan’s delusional incompetent clown car would have crashed by now. Bam wouldn’t be the same Bam he is today after being groomed under Riley and Spolstra’s actual program of longterm success.

And Donovan’s raw talent would have overloaded Dolan’s idiot circuitry. You want to paint a picture like we’d be good if we just had better “talent evaluation” while conveniently ignoring the highly probable outcome of Dolan f*cking it up by desperately trying to pretend Donovan is better than he actually is by installing a high-usage isolation offense while overpaying a bunch of mediocre talent around him like we saw with Carmelo.

You really want to blame the executives when the executives were hired explicitly because they promised to build the team through patchwork shortcuts meant to prop up their boss’s little ego.

I’m sorry if that’s depressing, but history is on my side. Dolan himself is the common denominator. Is talent evaluation a problem? Yes. But throw it on the dung heap with the rest of them.

I agree he's the common denominator.

But you can't separate the overarching pattern of failure without looking at execution. Poor execution is precisely how the pattern of failure materializes in the first place.

In any case, you seemed to express that stars don't want to "play for" Dolan, and my point was that I believe these players don't care about Dolan as much as they care about winning and talent. Chris Paul resigned with the Sterling Clippers, and Sarver's Suns. LeBron re-signed with Gilbert's Cavaliers. They want to win - and the Knicks don't have the infrastructure in place to offer that, largely because of talent.

I agree. And why don’t the Knicks have the infrastructure?

How can Leon be good at talent evaluation when his boss’s executive search (talent evaluation) process was secretive, lacking input or oversight, and included kicking Steve Mills upstairs to the board of directors thus refusing accountability for decades of failure tracing a direct line all the way back to Isiah?

Answer: it can’t. Leon Rose is and always has been doomed to failure here.

Mickey Arinson and any sane owner does whatever it takes to find the best executives, then stands back in a mostly hands-off approach. Look at the turnaround Joe Lacob achieved in GS. It wasn’t JUST the luck of landing Curry. It was also executing a proper business plan by finding highly qualified executives and turning over decision-making to them.

Leon was hired through a dysfunctional idiotic process shrouded in secrecy, cronyism, and lies. He therefore has very little-to-no chance of success and neither would Rick Brunson’s son.

I agree with everything you said.

Where we disagree is the idea that players like Bam, Mitchell, Bridges, Garland etc. would be doomed here. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to think that these players would fall victim to the Knicks' infrastructure (or lack thereof). I think the picks the Knicks have made recently (Frank, Knox, RJ) - or rather the lack of talent the Knicks got from those picks - actually contribute to this infrastructure and pattern of failure.

About Jalen Brunson, he would be set up to fail here if the Knicks rested on their laurels and didn't consolidate their assets to acquire another good player. This roster lacks talent, and Brunson is not the caliber of player who puts everyone else around him in easier roles where they have a significantly higher chance of being productive.

[cgmw]

I agree he's the common denominator.

But you can't separate the overarching pattern of failure without looking at execution. Poor execution is precisely how the pattern of failure materializes in the first place.

In any case, you seemed to express that stars don't want to "play for" Dolan, and my point was that I believe these players don't care about Dolan as much as they care about winning and talent. Chris Paul resigned with the Sterling Clippers, and Sarver's Suns. LeBron re-signed with Gilbert's Cavaliers. They want to win - and the Knicks don't have the infrastructure in place to offer that, largely because of talent.

I agree. And why don’t the Knicks have the infrastructure?

How can Leon be good at talent evaluation when his boss’s executive search (talent evaluation) process was secretive, lacking input or oversight, and included kicking Steve Mills upstairs to the board of directors thus refusing accountability for decades of failure tracing a direct line all the way back to Isiah?

Answer: it can’t. Leon Rose is and always has been doomed to failure here.

Mickey Arinson and any sane owner does whatever it takes to find the best executives, then stands back in a mostly hands-off approach. Look at the turnaround Joe Lacob achieved in GS. It wasn’t JUST the luck of landing Curry. It was also executing a proper business plan by finding highly qualified executives and turning over decision-making to them.

Leon was hired through a dysfunctional idiotic process shrouded in secrecy, cronyism, and lies. He therefore has very little-to-no chance of success and neither would Rick Brunson’s son.

I agree with everything you said.

Where we disagree is the idea that players like Bam, Mitchell, Bridges, Garland etc. would be doomed here. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to think that these players would fall victim to the Knicks' infrastructure (or lack thereof). I think the picks the Knicks have made recently (Frank, Knox, RJ) - or rather the lack of talent the Knicks got from those picks - actually contribute to this infrastructure and pattern of failure.

About Jalen Brunson, he would be set up to fail here if the Knicks rested on their laurels and didn't consolidate their assets to acquire another good player. This roster lacks talent, and Brunson is not the caliber of player who puts everyone else around him in easier roles where they have a significantly higher chance of being productive.

Correct.

I believe that Jim Dolan runs the Knicks so he can tell his siblings and kids that he’s a highly successful media tycoon. His priority isn’t a winning basketball team; it’s his own ego as a “musician” running Madison Square Garden.

If he ever gets lucky enough to draft a star-level player, he will certainly screw it up. I’m aware of my own cognitive bias against Dolan, but sadly it’s firmly grounded in 20+ years of reinforcement.

My guess is Dolan would ruin a top draft pick by pretending he’s a bigger star with a higher ceiling than he actually is. My guess is he’d create a culture enabling all the worst qualities of that star while having no system of accountability, dignity, competence or respect up the chain.

Another fight for another thread, but why are you so damn certain that RJ wouldn’t be a star had he been drafted to a better organization? How are you so sure Garland wouldn’t be a worse player rn had he been a Knick? (Those were rhetorical questions. Please no lectures on the inalienable intrinsic qualities of TS% efficiency).

[Chanel Bomber]

I agree. And why don’t the Knicks have the infrastructure?

How can Leon be good at talent evaluation when his boss’s executive search (talent evaluation) process was secretive, lacking input or oversight, and included kicking Steve Mills upstairs to the board of directors thus refusing accountability for decades of failure tracing a direct line all the way back to Isiah?

Answer: it can’t. Leon Rose is and always has been doomed to failure here.

Mickey Arinson and any sane owner does whatever it takes to find the best executives, then stands back in a mostly hands-off approach. Look at the turnaround Joe Lacob achieved in GS. It wasn’t JUST the luck of landing Curry. It was also executing a proper business plan by finding highly qualified executives and turning over decision-making to them.

Leon was hired through a dysfunctional idiotic process shrouded in secrecy, cronyism, and lies. He therefore has very little-to-no chance of success and neither would Rick Brunson’s son.

I agree with everything you said.

Where we disagree is the idea that players like Bam, Mitchell, Bridges, Garland etc. would be doomed here. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to think that these players would fall victim to the Knicks' infrastructure (or lack thereof). I think the picks the Knicks have made recently (Frank, Knox, RJ) - or rather the lack of talent the Knicks got from those picks - actually contribute to this infrastructure and pattern of failure.

About Jalen Brunson, he would be set up to fail here if the Knicks rested on their laurels and didn't consolidate their assets to acquire another good player. This roster lacks talent, and Brunson is not the caliber of player who puts everyone else around him in easier roles where they have a significantly higher chance of being productive.

Correct.

I believe that Jim Dolan runs the Knicks so he can tell his siblings and kids that he’s a highly successful media tycoon. His priority isn’t a winning basketball team; it’s his own ego as a “musician” running Madison Square Garden.

If he ever gets lucky enough to draft a star-level player, he will certainly screw it up. I’m aware of my own cognitive bias against Dolan, but sadly it’s firmly grounded in 20+ years of reinforcement.

My guess is Dolan would ruin a top draft pick by pretending he’s a bigger star with a higher ceiling than he actually is. My guess is he’d create a culture enabling all the worst qualities of that star while having no system of accountability, dignity, competence or respect up the chain.

Another fight for another thread, but why are you so damn certain that RJ wouldn’t be a star had he been drafted to a better organization? How are you so sure Garland wouldn’t be a worse player rn had he been a Knick? (Those were rhetorical questions. Please no lectures on the inalienable intrinsic qualities of TS% efficiency).

The Knicks have enabled the worst qualities of RJ, same as they did with KP before him. The Knicks marketed and treated KP as a star, before he had proven anything. He became a diva who felt entitled to be fed and have the offense run through him. KP was completely delusional about his abilities, same as RJ today. RJ played some of the most selfish basketball I have ever seen as a Knicks fan the past few months, and that's saying something. I'm just not impressed by that.

The Knicks have fed those delusions because they are desperate to have something to show for, so they artificially hype up these players and encourage their worst tendencies. It's the most desperate franchise in all of sports.

For all the faults of this roster, especially with regards to its long-term outlook, RJ had what people were clamoring for in terms of development. Two good 3-point shooters in the backcourt, a highly efficient rim-runner, and, well, Dark Randle who admittedly is a difficult player to play with and not a floor spacer. But as an on-ball player, RJ was not in such a bad environment this season. Not ideal, but not that bad either. His failure to be efficient is his own and no one else's. Or rather the organization for entrusting him with such a role, and building up unrealistic expectations. The most egregious thing was pairing him with a non-shooter in Payton. He's gone now.

Would he be a better player if drafted by Golden State? Surely. But he would be a role player, a role he's much better suited for, similar to the role he played last season. They would never, ever allow him to pad his stats and average 20 on bottom of the league efficiency, because it would affect their team success.

[cgmw]

I agree with everything you said.

Where we disagree is the idea that players like Bam, Mitchell, Bridges, Garland etc. would be doomed here. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to think that these players would fall victim to the Knicks' infrastructure (or lack thereof). I think the picks the Knicks have made recently (Frank, Knox, RJ) - or rather the lack of talent the Knicks got from those picks - actually contribute to this infrastructure and pattern of failure.

About Jalen Brunson, he would be set up to fail here if the Knicks rested on their laurels and didn't consolidate their assets to acquire another good player. This roster lacks talent, and Brunson is not the caliber of player who puts everyone else around him in easier roles where they have a significantly higher chance of being productive.

Correct.

I believe that Jim Dolan runs the Knicks so he can tell his siblings and kids that he’s a highly successful media tycoon. His priority isn’t a winning basketball team; it’s his own ego as a “musician” running Madison Square Garden.

If he ever gets lucky enough to draft a star-level player, he will certainly screw it up. I’m aware of my own cognitive bias against Dolan, but sadly it’s firmly grounded in 20+ years of reinforcement.

My guess is Dolan would ruin a top draft pick by pretending he’s a bigger star with a higher ceiling than he actually is. My guess is he’d create a culture enabling all the worst qualities of that star while having no system of accountability, dignity, competence or respect up the chain.

Another fight for another thread, but why are you so damn certain that RJ wouldn’t be a star had he been drafted to a better organization? How are you so sure Garland wouldn’t be a worse player rn had he been a Knick? (Those were rhetorical questions. Please no lectures on the inalienable intrinsic qualities of TS% efficiency).

The Knicks have enabled the worst qualities of RJ, same as they did with KP before him. The Knicks marketed and treated KP as a star, before he had proven anything. He became a diva who felt entitled to be fed and have the offense run through him. KP was completely delusional about his abilities, same as RJ today. RJ played some of the most selfish basketball I have ever seen as a Knicks fan the past few months, and that's saying something. I'm just not impressed by that.

The Knicks have fed those delusions because they are desperate to have something to show for, so they artificially hype up these players and encourage their worst tendencies. It's the most desperate franchise in all of sports.

For all the faults of this roster, especially with regards to its long-term outlook, RJ had what people were clamoring for in terms of development. Two good 3-point shooters in the backcourt, a highly efficient rim-runner, and, well, Dark Randle who admittedly is a difficult player to play with and not a floor spacer. But as an on-ball player, RJ was not in such a bad environment this season. Not ideal, but not that bad either. His failure to be efficient is his own and no one else's. Or rather the organization for entrusting him with such a role, and building up unrealistic expectations. The most egregious thing was pairing him with a non-shooter in Payton. He's gone now.

Would he be a better player if drafted by Golden State? Surely. But he would be a role player, a role he's much better suited for, similar to the role he played last season. They would never, ever allow him to pad his stats and average 20 on bottom of the league efficiency, because it would affect their team success.

I have no idea what RJ would have been elsewhere but you’re spot on. My critique is that Knicks brass always plays a weak bullsh*t shell game of PRETENDING like they’re developing youth while simultaneously PRETENDING that their D-level mercenary vets are “competing.”

The real move would have been to draft RJ, and let him play on a losing team for his entire rookie contract while stacking lotto odds. I know you disagree, but this wishy-washy middle ground bullsh*t is much worse. You want RJ paired with another young blue-chipper and THEN you recruit veteran support staff. Not the other way around.

As it stands, our entire “youth movement” is total bullsh*t. It’s just Leon biding time while hedging his losses to his maniac boss who wants stars now asap at all costs.

3 playoff appearances in 21 years with only ONE top 3 pick to show for it? Inexcusable incompetence on multiple levels. My hope is Leon trades RJ and the youth now, so that we can speed up the inevitable cycle of scorched earth failure.

[Chanel Bomber]

Correct.

I believe that Jim Dolan runs the Knicks so he can tell his siblings and kids that he’s a highly successful media tycoon. His priority isn’t a winning basketball team; it’s his own ego as a “musician” running Madison Square Garden.

If he ever gets lucky enough to draft a star-level player, he will certainly screw it up. I’m aware of my own cognitive bias against Dolan, but sadly it’s firmly grounded in 20+ years of reinforcement.

My guess is Dolan would ruin a top draft pick by pretending he’s a bigger star with a higher ceiling than he actually is. My guess is he’d create a culture enabling all the worst qualities of that star while having no system of accountability, dignity, competence or respect up the chain.

Another fight for another thread, but why are you so damn certain that RJ wouldn’t be a star had he been drafted to a better organization? How are you so sure Garland wouldn’t be a worse player rn had he been a Knick? (Those were rhetorical questions. Please no lectures on the inalienable intrinsic qualities of TS% efficiency).

The Knicks have enabled the worst qualities of RJ, same as they did with KP before him. The Knicks marketed and treated KP as a star, before he had proven anything. He became a diva who felt entitled to be fed and have the offense run through him. KP was completely delusional about his abilities, same as RJ today. RJ played some of the most selfish basketball I have ever seen as a Knicks fan the past few months, and that's saying something. I'm just not impressed by that.

The Knicks have fed those delusions because they are desperate to have something to show for, so they artificially hype up these players and encourage their worst tendencies. It's the most desperate franchise in all of sports.

For all the faults of this roster, especially with regards to its long-term outlook, RJ had what people were clamoring for in terms of development. Two good 3-point shooters in the backcourt, a highly efficient rim-runner, and, well, Dark Randle who admittedly is a difficult player to play with and not a floor spacer. But as an on-ball player, RJ was not in such a bad environment this season. Not ideal, but not that bad either. His failure to be efficient is his own and no one else's. Or rather the organization for entrusting him with such a role, and building up unrealistic expectations. The most egregious thing was pairing him with a non-shooter in Payton. He's gone now.

Would he be a better player if drafted by Golden State? Surely. But he would be a role player, a role he's much better suited for, similar to the role he played last season. They would never, ever allow him to pad his stats and average 20 on bottom of the league efficiency, because it would affect their team success.

I have no idea what RJ would have been elsewhere but you’re spot on. My critique is that Knicks brass always plays a weak bullsh*t shell game of PRETENDING like they’re developing youth while simultaneously PRETENDING that their D-level mercenary vets are “competing.”

The real move would have been to draft RJ, and let him play on a losing team for his entire rookie contract while stacking lotto odds. I know you disagree, but this wishy-washy middle ground bullsh*t is much worse. You want RJ paired with another young blue-chipper and THEN you recruit veteran support staff. Not the other way around.

As it stands, our entire “youth movement” is total bullsh*t. It’s just Leon biding time while hedging his losses to his maniac boss who wants stars now asap at all costs.

3 playoff appearances in 21 years with only ONE top 3 pick to show for it? Inexcusable incompetence on multiple levels. My hope is Leon trades RJ and the youth now, so that we can speed up the inevitable cycle of scorched earth failure.

I pretty much agree with everything you said.

I personally don't mind bringing in respectable and capable veterans to teach these young players how to manage their careers, and put them in an environment where they can reasonably be expected to compete. Rose helps us win games, but I think he's a blessing for our youth. So there's a tank paradox there.

Just to explore every side of the argument, losing for too long can also break players and build bad habits, as it did (in my opinion) to KP, Payton and Randle for instance, or De'Aaron Fox and Boogie Cousins in Sacramento.

There's just something off about the type of players the Knicks have targeted in free agency, the money they have been given, and the expectations that have been placed on them. The Knicks are great at signing mediocre players. As always, no actual difference-maker, just utter mediocrity. The Knicks are stuck in the mud because none of the players they have signed or drafted really stands out.

In any case, it all circles back to Dolan, as you acutely identify.

[cgmw]

The Knicks have enabled the worst qualities of RJ, same as they did with KP before him. The Knicks marketed and treated KP as a star, before he had proven anything. He became a diva who felt entitled to be fed and have the offense run through him. KP was completely delusional about his abilities, same as RJ today. RJ played some of the most selfish basketball I have ever seen as a Knicks fan the past few months, and that's saying something. I'm just not impressed by that.

The Knicks have fed those delusions because they are desperate to have something to show for, so they artificially hype up these players and encourage their worst tendencies. It's the most desperate franchise in all of sports.

For all the faults of this roster, especially with regards to its long-term outlook, RJ had what people were clamoring for in terms of development. Two good 3-point shooters in the backcourt, a highly efficient rim-runner, and, well, Dark Randle who admittedly is a difficult player to play with and not a floor spacer. But as an on-ball player, RJ was not in such a bad environment this season. Not ideal, but not that bad either. His failure to be efficient is his own and no one else's. Or rather the organization for entrusting him with such a role, and building up unrealistic expectations. The most egregious thing was pairing him with a non-shooter in Payton. He's gone now.

Would he be a better player if drafted by Golden State? Surely. But he would be a role player, a role he's much better suited for, similar to the role he played last season. They would never, ever allow him to pad his stats and average 20 on bottom of the league efficiency, because it would affect their team success.

I have no idea what RJ would have been elsewhere but you’re spot on. My critique is that Knicks brass always plays a weak bullsh*t shell game of PRETENDING like they’re developing youth while simultaneously PRETENDING that their D-level mercenary vets are “competing.”

The real move would have been to draft RJ, and let him play on a losing team for his entire rookie contract while stacking lotto odds. I know you disagree, but this wishy-washy middle ground bullsh*t is much worse. You want RJ paired with another young blue-chipper and THEN you recruit veteran support staff. Not the other way around.

As it stands, our entire “youth movement” is total bullsh*t. It’s just Leon biding time while hedging his losses to his maniac boss who wants stars now asap at all costs.

3 playoff appearances in 21 years with only ONE top 3 pick to show for it? Inexcusable incompetence on multiple levels. My hope is Leon trades RJ and the youth now, so that we can speed up the inevitable cycle of scorched earth failure.

I pretty much agree with everything you said.

I personally don't mind bringing in respectable and capable veterans to teach these young players how to manage their careers, and put them in an environment where they can reasonably be expected to compete. Rose helps us win games, but I think he's a blessing for our youth. So there's a tank paradox there.

Just to explore every side of the argument, losing for too long can also break players and build bad habits, as it did (in my opinion) to KP, Payton and Randle for instance, or De'Aaron Fox and Boogie Cousins in Sacramento.

There's just something off about the type of players the Knicks have targeted in free agency, the money they have been given, and the expectations that have been placed on them. The Knicks are great at signing mediocre players. As always, no actual difference-maker, just utter mediocrity. The Knicks are stuck in the mud because none of the players they have signed or drafted really stands out.

In any case, it all circles back to Dolan, as you acutely identify.

Can you imagine Popovich telling a young roster “eat what you kill” like Fizdale did? Can you imagine literally any other lotto team signing Julius Randle to that first Steve Mills contract?

Pairing RJ with Julius, and then doubling down with a “win now” halfcourt isolation-ball coach, and then tripling down by extending Randle, and then quadrupling down by signing Fournier/Kemba— that’s how you set a franchise back 5 years and ruin any realistic hope for your once-blue chip prospect becoming a championship cornerstone.

If there’s really a Randle trade out there, then Leon is looking at a golden opportunity to start over while leaning on IQ, Grimes, RJ, Obi and Mitch. Strategically, you actually WANT them to have an off year to sneak in one more top 5 pick.

Sadly,Thibs is the wrong coach because he’ll bench them all in a heartbeat for Elfrid Payton/Alec Burks. Perry is the wrong GM because he’s grandfathered in to signing Randle. Leon is the wrong POBO because his calling card is vet recruitment. And Dolan is the wrong owner because he doesn’t know how to tell ticket holders to be patient without lying through his fat face. The mandate year after year is PLAYOFFS OR YOU’RE ALL FIRED! (Or re-assigned to board of directors).

Meanwhile, Pop develops an All Star in D. Murray. Cleveland has 2 potential All-NBA stars developing on the same timeline. Houston about to pair J. Green with another stud (while the Knicks would have played Wall 40 mpg this year). Honestly about 29 other teams are light-years ahead; with the tragic-comic possible exception of Dolan’s wet dreamteam in Brooklyn.

So yeah I expect them to go after Brunson hard, and I expect Leon to offer godfather trades to Utah and possibly Portland or DC or New Orleans to pair Brunson with a veteran All Star. I also expect Randle to still be our PF while Obi catches lobs in Salt Lake.

[thebuzzardman]

You guys are exchanging a lot of keystrokes in a Knicks chicken or the egg argument.

Knicks are bad because their FO's generally suck.

Depending on what year, or maybe it continues to today - there is some debate - Dolan also will directly meddle in basketball decisions. Certainly the threat looms, so see point #2

I'll give Chanel a nod here that IF the Knicks drafted better, basically by accident, that the talent would show out. Where I'll give cmgw some due is that the Knicks FO suck at running things, therefore development, so guys somewhat less talented or marginal don't get their value increased or made into better players.

At least this FO addressed developmental coaches with Payne and Johnny Bryant, though maybe those were just low key starph*cking hires directed towards KAT and Mitchell.

[thebuzzardman]

Now Chanel is b*tching that the Knicks let RJ take too many shots while they did their version of attempting to develop him.

Damn. You and Jimmit need to get a room.

[cgmw]

You guys are exchanging a lot of keystrokes in a Knicks chicken or the egg argument.

Knicks are bad because their FO's generally suck.

Depending on what year, or maybe it continues to today - there is some debate - Dolan also will directly meddle in basketball decisions. Certainly the threat looms, so see point #2

I'll give Chanel a nod here that IF the Knicks drafted better, basically by accident, that the talent would show out. Where I'll give cmgw some due is that the Knicks FO suck at running things, therefore development, so guys somewhat less talented or marginal don't get their value increased or made into better players.

At least this FO addressed developmental coaches with Payne and Johnny Bryant, though maybe those were just low key starph*cking hires directed towards KAT and Mitchell.

Personally I welcome the monthly longform non-argument with Chanel where we basically agree with each other.

It’s more like Schroedinger’s Cat than chicken/egg. There’s no way to know if Chanel is right until one of the Knicks late-lotto picks actually pans out, which hasn’t happened yet (and probably won’t).

There’s no way to know if I’m right until the Knicks actually commit to multiple top 3 picks, which also hasn’t happened yet (and almost definitely won’t).

The real question is— is this madness? Like for real, are diehard Knick fans literally insane? Is it actually mental for us to keep diving into it like this just to have something to talk about? God bless the fans who walked away years ago. Meanwhile Chanel is here on a mission to prove his Ts% manifesto and I’m still here with baited breath waiting to find out how Leon f*cks this up.

[thebuzzardman]

You guys are exchanging a lot of keystrokes in a Knicks chicken or the egg argument.

Knicks are bad because their FO's generally suck.

Depending on what year, or maybe it continues to today - there is some debate - Dolan also will directly meddle in basketball decisions. Certainly the threat looms, so see point #2

I'll give Chanel a nod here that IF the Knicks drafted better, basically by accident, that the talent would show out. Where I'll give cmgw some due is that the Knicks FO suck at running things, therefore development, so guys somewhat less talented or marginal don't get their value increased or made into better players.

At least this FO addressed developmental coaches with Payne and Johnny Bryant, though maybe those were just low key starph*cking hires directed towards KAT and Mitchell.

Personally I welcome the monthly longform non-argument with Chanel where we basically agree with each other.

It’s more like Schroedinger’s Cat than chicken/egg. There’s no way to know if Chanel is right until one of the Knicks late-lotto picks actually pans out, which hasn’t happened yet (and probably won’t).

There’s no way to know if I’m right until the Knicks actually commit to multiple top 3 picks, which also hasn’t happened yet (and almost definitely won’t).

The real question is— is this madness? Like for real, are diehard Knick fans literally insane? Is it actually mental for us to keep diving into it like this just to have something to talk about? God bless the fans who walked away years ago. Meanwhile Chanel is here on a mission to prove his Ts% manifesto and I’m still here with baited breath waiting to find out how Leon f*cks this up.

It is madness. I've come close to bailing but two things kept me in, but it might not last this time.

Knicks hired Phil Jackson. Hey, I get he wasn't a GM, and it probably wasn't going to end well, but I figured he's a great basketball mind, had cache with Dolan, so maybe Dolan would leave him alone, and IF (BIG IF) that general coaching acumen Phil first got from Red Holzman and later improved on translated, maybe the it would work.
Pretty early on, when he resigned Melo, got Rose, Jennings etc, we could see it probably wasn't going to work and then it just got worse and worse.

Mills taking over I figured would be a sh*t show but I kept rooting on inertia and the extremely slim chance that once he held the reigns of power, maybe the MSG shenanigans would die down and Knicks might be "decent". He and Perry showed some fiscal restraint, so that was refreshing, but again, it pretty quickly went south.

More recently, and these may be posts you recall, when Rose came in, I figured "well, an agent isn't the greatest idea but if he has connections, maybe he'll hire a good GM or up and coming guy". When Perry was retained, I figured it's going to suck but STILL, I had to give them an offseason and a trade deadline. Welp, we see how that went.

Now, I'm just here for the mockery mainly, but have a passing interest in seeing if maybe Aller/Rosas can wrest control of the FO and that all of them collectively learned something on the fly and they manage to undo last offseason this offseason. Which we know is HIGHLY unlikely. But yeah, I'm about at the end of the rope.

[cgmw]

You guys are exchanging a lot of keystrokes in a Knicks chicken or the egg argument.

Knicks are bad because their FO's generally suck.

Depending on what year, or maybe it continues to today - there is some debate - Dolan also will directly meddle in basketball decisions. Certainly the threat looms, so see point #2

I'll give Chanel a nod here that IF the Knicks drafted better, basically by accident, that the talent would show out. Where I'll give cmgw some due is that the Knicks FO suck at running things, therefore development, so guys somewhat less talented or marginal don't get their value increased or made into better players.

At least this FO addressed developmental coaches with Payne and Johnny Bryant, though maybe those were just low key starph*cking hires directed towards KAT and Mitchell.

Personally I welcome the monthly longform non-argument with Chanel where we basically agree with each other.

It’s more like Schroedinger’s Cat than chicken/egg. There’s no way to know if Chanel is right until one of the Knicks late-lotto picks actually pans out, which hasn’t happened yet (and probably won’t).

There’s no way to know if I’m right until the Knicks actually commit to multiple top 3 picks, which also hasn’t happened yet (and almost definitely won’t).

The real question is— is this madness? Like for real, are diehard Knick fans literally insane? Is it actually mental for us to keep diving into it like this just to have something to talk about? God bless the fans who walked away years ago. Meanwhile Chanel is here on a mission to prove his Ts% manifesto and I’m still here with baited breath waiting to find out how Leon f*cks this up.

It is madness. I've come close to bailing but two things kept me in, but it might not last this time.

Knicks hired Phil Jackson. Hey, I get he wasn't a GM, and it probably wasn't going to end well, but I figured he's a great basketball mind, had cache with Dolan, so maybe Dolan would leave him alone, and IF (BIG IF) that general coaching acumen Phil first got from Red Holzman and later improved on translated, maybe the it would work.
Pretty early on, when he resigned Melo, got Rose, Jennings etc, we could see it probably wasn't going to work and then it just got worse and worse.

Mills taking over I figured would be a sh*t show but I kept rooting on inertia and the extremely slim chance that once he held the reigns of power, maybe the MSG shenanigans would die down and Knicks might be "decent". He and Perry showed some fiscal restraint, so that was refreshing, but again, it pretty quickly went south.

More recently, and these may be posts you recall, when Rose came in, I figured "well, an agent isn't the greatest idea but if he has connections, maybe he'll hire a good GM or up and coming guy". When Perry was retained, I figured it's going to suck but STILL, I had to give them an offseason and a trade deadline. Welp, we see how that went.

Now, I'm just here for the mockery mainly, but have a passing interest in seeing if maybe Aller/Rosas can wrest control of the FO and that all of them collectively learned something on the fly and they manage to undo last offseason this offseason. Which we know is HIGHLY unlikely. But yeah, I'm about at the end of the rope.

Buzz, just be honest with yourself. Your fandom has virtually zero correlation to hope. For me, I’ve come to peace that the Knicks are hopeless and I’m just kind of pleasantly amused by the weird reality that my desire to be a fan is totally unfazed.

I consider myself loyal and stubborn and a pretty simple man at the bottom of a Byzantine maze of peculiarities, not the least of which is my Knick fandom.

But if you require hope as a prerequisite for your NBA fandom, then you (like Jalen Brunson) have literally 29 superior options to choose from.