Jalen Brunson obsession

[KnicksNext]

IQ ended the season with 34 points, 12 assists and 10 rebounds and makes 2.2 million a year. Oh and our 2 best players were out. I'm good with the guy we got!

So last game of the season > playoffs is what you’re saying. Good stuff.

Let’s be real here - Brunson came into the league as an efficient. He’s a consistent and efficient offensive guard - 2 things Quickley will never be. And I like Quickley.

according to the almighty TS% stat for efficiency, quickley and Jalen are about even for their first 2 seasons. And that’s with Jalen playing next to a All time great in the making

Oh come on dude.. trying to say IQ = Brunson? Slow down man. IQ does have a chance to be good in a Lou Will role, but he's not even in Brunson's stratosphere as a PG. Plus, why not have both?

[KnicksNext]

At this point the question is not "Is Brunson good enough for the Knicks?" but "Are the Knicks good enough for Brunson?" I think we'll find out he doesn't believe so.

GREAT point. Why tf would he want to come join the worst organization in the league? Brunson seems like the type of player that would take less to be on a championship team. 25 pages of us talking about him and he's probably like oh hell na I ain't going to that sh*t franchise.

[Chanel Bomber]

I was wondering if someone can explain to me our obsession with Jalen Brunson. Bruson is a good PG but is he that good that he takes us to the promised land? I'm starting to feel like we are setting ourselves up to overpay another 2nd or 3rd option. Jaden Ivey on the other hand seems like a cornerstone piece to build around. Shouldn't our goal be to get him at all costs.

Does this explain it?

Watch on YouTube

I know I'm posting a lot here, but I don't know how anyone can watch this and not want this guy on your squad. He's a flat out winner (2 chips at Nova), and also has a killer instinct in him too. PLEASE go get him Knicks.

The question is still how do you get that #1 or #2 after you get Brunson?

Because getting Brunson would need to happen via S&T, so you're already losing assets to get him. Not to mention that two of the players who fit that description (#1 or #2) and who might be on the trade market can't play with him because of size (Mitchell and Dame).

Unless you think Brunson can have a Lowry or Billups career arc and carves himself a Hall-of-Fame career. That changes the conversation completely. In that case, the Knicks have to move hell and earth to get him.

[KnicksNext]

Does this explain it?

Watch on YouTube

I know I'm posting a lot here, but I don't know how anyone can watch this and not want this guy on your squad. He's a flat out winner (2 chips at Nova), and also has a killer instinct in him too. PLEASE go get him Knicks.

The question is still how do you get that #1 or #2 after you get Brunson?

Because getting Brunson would need to happen via S&T, so you're already losing assets to get him. Not to mention that two of the players who fit that description (#1 or #2) and who might be on the trade market can't play with him because of size (Mitchell and Dame).

Unless you think Brunson can have a Lowry or Billups career arc and carves himself a Hall-of-Fame career. That changes the conversation completely. In that case, the Knicks have to move hell and earth to get him.

I get it, but we have to start somewhere. I'd start with a Mitch S&T as the main centerpiece of the deal. I know a lot of people are pushing Randle in the trade, but I doubt Dallas wants that piece of crap on their roster. I think we're stuck with him. That said, it would be an interesting dynamic knowing Brunson takes over the role of primary ball handler. Maybe that helps out Randle a lot, because he'll have to defer to Brunson in terms of bringing up the ball. IF somehow Randle comes back with a better attitude (a HUGE if), it might take a lot of pressure off him. I doubt it, but just wanted to mention that.

Back to your point.. I know we still need that #1 or #2 (Brunson is easily a #3 on a championship team). So, you nabbed the 25 year old #3, you've got RJ/Ob/IQ as your 4-6 still on rookie deals. I'm not a capologist, but if we dump all the 'team friendly' deals we signed this past off-season, that would open up our ability to go get that 'star' player maybe in 2023. If RJ/Obi/IQ continue to improve, we can either package them (plus our #1's) in deals for that star player, or hold on to them and run w/Brunson and the youth and see what happens. He's only 25, so he fits right in.

If you agree Brunson is a solid #3, you got get him now. We can't sit around and wait forever to see if we can land Zion/Dame/Mitchell (insert 'star'). If there is a #3 there for the taking you make the move and worry about the #1/#2 later.

Just my 2 cents.

[KnicksNext]

I remember lot of Knicks fans wanted brunson added in KP trade but Mills the genius settled for Dsjr.

WE

ARE

THE

KNICKS!



Terrible decision after terrible decision. Year after year. For 20+ years.

Why am I here.

[KnicksNext]

Read on Twitter

Seems like Rick Brunson is saying his son might be going elsewhere. I know it's just his Dad saying these things, but they are a really tight knit family so maybe you can take a little from this.

[KnicksNext]

My evaluation of Brunson was **** apparently

But I still think we need to find the face of the franchise before filling out the roster with role players, and he is still a role player after all.

a #3 on a championship team role player.

[KnicksNext]

My evaluation of Brunson was **** apparently

But I still think we need to find the face of the franchise before filling out the roster with role players, and he is still a role player after all.

He's not "just a roleplayer" there's a 20ppg scorer with the amount of touches he'd get here, he's not a franchise tier 1 type of player but he's also not simply a roleplayer, roleplayers don't lead their teams to playoff wins when the main guy is out. He's a highly efficient scoring PG that could make a couple all-star games in the right situation.

He’s the lefty FVV

Didn't even think about the fact we'd being adding another lefty to the crew

[Chanel Bomber]

I know I'm posting a lot here, but I don't know how anyone can watch this and not want this guy on your squad. He's a flat out winner (2 chips at Nova), and also has a killer instinct in him too. PLEASE go get him Knicks.

The question is still how do you get that #1 or #2 after you get Brunson?

Because getting Brunson would need to happen via S&T, so you're already losing assets to get him. Not to mention that two of the players who fit that description (#1 or #2) and who might be on the trade market can't play with him because of size (Mitchell and Dame).

Unless you think Brunson can have a Lowry or Billups career arc and carves himself a Hall-of-Fame career. That changes the conversation completely. In that case, the Knicks have to move hell and earth to get him.

I get it, but we have to start somewhere. I'd start with a Mitch S&T as the main centerpiece of the deal. I know a lot of people are pushing Randle in the trade, but I doubt Dallas wants that piece of crap on their roster. I think we're stuck with him. That said, it would be an interesting dynamic knowing Brunson takes over the role of primary ball handler. Maybe that helps out Randle a lot, because he'll have to defer to Brunson in terms of bringing up the ball. IF somehow Randle comes back with a better attitude (a HUGE if), it might take a lot of pressure off him. I doubt it, but just wanted to mention that.

Back to your point.. I know we still need that #1 or #2 (Brunson is easily a #3 on a championship team). So, you nabbed the 25 year old #3, you've got RJ/Ob/IQ as your 4-6 still on rookie deals. I'm not a capologist, but if we dump all the 'team friendly' deals we signed this past off-season, that would open up our ability to go get that 'star' player maybe in 2023. If RJ/Obi/IQ continue to improve, we can either package them (plus our #1's) in deals for that star player, or hold on to them and run w/Brunson and the youth and see what happens. He's only 25, so he fits right in.

If you agree Brunson is a solid #3, you got get him now. We can't sit around and wait forever to see if we can land Zion/Dame/Mitchell (insert 'star'). If there is a #3 there for the taking you make the move and worry about the #1/#2 later.

Just my 2 cents.

No I get it, and I think Brunson would be a nice - if underwhelming - addition to the team. But you can't stop there. You still need to blow up this team, and consolidate your assets to acquire a #1 or a #2. Merely adding Brunson to this core and running it back does nothing for us in my opinion, even if you shed some of the "team-friendly" deals.

You might as well blow it up and tank if you're not going to orchestrate a trade for a legitimate star player.

[8516knicks]

The question is still how do you get that #1 or #2 after you get Brunson?

Because getting Brunson would need to happen via S&T, so you're already losing assets to get him. Not to mention that two of the players who fit that description (#1 or #2) and who might be on the trade market can't play with him because of size (Mitchell and Dame).

Unless you think Brunson can have a Lowry or Billups career arc and carves himself a Hall-of-Fame career. That changes the conversation completely. In that case, the Knicks have to move hell and earth to get him.

I get it, but we have to start somewhere. I'd start with a Mitch S&T as the main centerpiece of the deal. I know a lot of people are pushing Randle in the trade, but I doubt Dallas wants that piece of crap on their roster. I think we're stuck with him. That said, it would be an interesting dynamic knowing Brunson takes over the role of primary ball handler. Maybe that helps out Randle a lot, because he'll have to defer to Brunson in terms of bringing up the ball. IF somehow Randle comes back with a better attitude (a HUGE if), it might take a lot of pressure off him. I doubt it, but just wanted to mention that.

Back to your point.. I know we still need that #1 or #2 (Brunson is easily a #3 on a championship team). So, you nabbed the 25 year old #3, you've got RJ/Ob/IQ as your 4-6 still on rookie deals. I'm not a capologist, but if we dump all the 'team friendly' deals we signed this past off-season, that would open up our ability to go get that 'star' player maybe in 2023. If RJ/Obi/IQ continue to improve, we can either package them (plus our #1's) in deals for that star player, or hold on to them and run w/Brunson and the youth and see what happens. He's only 25, so he fits right in.

If you agree Brunson is a solid #3, you got get him now. We can't sit around and wait forever to see if we can land Zion/Dame/Mitchell (insert 'star'). If there is a #3 there for the taking you make the move and worry about the #1/#2 later.

Just my 2 cents.

No I get it, and I think Brunson would be a nice - if underwhelming - addition to the team. But you can't stop there. You still need to blow up this team, and consolidate your assets to acquire a #1 or a #2. Merely adding Brunson to this core and running it back does nothing for us in my opinion, even if you shed some of the "team-friendly" deals.

You might as well blow it up and tank if you're not going to orchestrate a trade for a legitimate star player.

Get who u can when u can. Brunson's a good decent pg for 5 to 9 years. But that train has probably left the station. Tyus Jones as a backup absolutely. Then We need an athletic scoring wing in the 6'8" to 6'10" area. And we need a decent two way center so we're not playing 4 on 5 all the time.

A dead eye two would also help. Plus a good 3&D for the other wing.

we don't need ball hogs. Randall last season was good but showed his true colors reverting this year. And RJ is just too short and plodding where we need a Dominick Wilkins or Khris MIddleton type.

And a decent two way big. Maybe Poetil? If he can play for Pops he can't be all that bad.

But we'll likely have to DRAFT most of them. In a good draft would RJ bring a top 3 pick given his accomplishments so far? Would Randle? Maybe we should just hire the Raptors scouts? A knick equivalent of Siakam, FVF, Barnes and that O guy would be a nice group to build from.

[PeteW]

IQ would never sniff enough minutes for my liking with Thibs at the helm. The guard rotation would just be too crowded.
Brunson, Rose, Fournier, Burks, Reddish, Mcbride. I want to see IQ and Obi both unleashed, enough with the roadblocks already, dont give Thibs more ammo to block their development and give vets 40 minutes a game.

[Jeffrey]

After this series, Dallas might offer him a max contract. Which is something I see Cuban doing.

[spree2kawhi]

My evaluation of Brunson was **** apparently

But I still think we need to find the face of the franchise before filling out the roster with role players, and he is still a role player after all.

a #3 on a championship team role player.

So do you want to add him now and then be unable to draft or sign the number one? It is stupid.

[thebuzzardman]

My evaluation of Brunson was **** apparently

But I still think we need to find the face of the franchise before filling out the roster with role players, and he is still a role player after all.

a #3 on a championship team role player.

So do you want to add him now and then be unable to draft or sign the number one? It is stupid.

Knicks are capped out for the next few years, especially after they inevitably sign RJ.
Everyone they'll be getting will be UFA S&Ts or outright trades.

Of course, that's conditional on anyone wanting to come to the Knicks and also the Knicks having anything worthwhile to offer in the other direction which basically isn't true now and will probably not be the case in a year or two, where in fact, situation will probably be worse both in the quality of the team and the "assets" it has for trades.

I guess if the Knicks blow it up now they could be under the cap so the next regime could come in and sign the next Randle.

Who is 24 years old right now, seems decent but probably isn't that great? Maybe the Knicks max out JJJ in 3 years after trading Randle and RJ for cap space.

[Chanel Bomber]

a #3 on a championship team role player.

So do you want to add him now and then be unable to draft or sign the number one? It is stupid.

Knicks are capped out for the next few years, especially after they inevitably sign RJ.
Everyone they'll be getting will be UFA S&Ts or outright trades.

Of course, that's conditional on anyone wanting to come to the Knicks and also the Knicks having anything worthwhile to offer in the other direction which basically isn't true now and will probably not be the case in a year or two, where in fact, situation will probably be worse both in the quality of the team and the "assets" it has for trades.

I guess if the Knicks blow it up now they could be under the cap so the next regime could come in and sign the next Randle.

Who is 24 years old right now, seems decent but probably isn't that great? Maybe the Knicks max out JJJ in 3 years after trading Randle and RJ for cap space.

I think what you outlined here illustrates perfectly why the Knicks cannot stand pat and need to need a calcilated risk on a win-now package, or a complete tear-down for draft capital.

The Knicks' current talent base will not allow them to climb high up the NBA ladder. It's simply too weak in my opinion.

[thebuzzardman]

So do you want to add him now and then be unable to draft or sign the number one? It is stupid.

Knicks are capped out for the next few years, especially after they inevitably sign RJ.
Everyone they'll be getting will be UFA S&Ts or outright trades.

Of course, that's conditional on anyone wanting to come to the Knicks and also the Knicks having anything worthwhile to offer in the other direction which basically isn't true now and will probably not be the case in a year or two, where in fact, situation will probably be worse both in the quality of the team and the "assets" it has for trades.

I guess if the Knicks blow it up now they could be under the cap so the next regime could come in and sign the next Randle.

Who is 24 years old right now, seems decent but probably isn't that great? Maybe the Knicks max out JJJ in 3 years after trading Randle and RJ for cap space.

I think what you outlined here illustrates perfectly why the Knicks cannot stand pat and need to need a calcilated risk on a win-now package, or a complete tear-down for draft capital.

The Knicks' current talent base will not allow them to climb high up the NBA ladder. It's simply too weak in my opinion.

Hmm. Maybe.
I think "risky, win now" moves over the years are one of the reasons the Knicks are in this situation. Always looking for the shortcut.

I suppose there is the iterative step where the Knicks get Brunson (or something) resign RJ and then move them in 3 years.

Really, outside of the fairly unrealistic scenario of the Knicks trading everything for picks and cap space (after you said nothing the Knicks have is that compelling), is the Knicks attempt to "win" with the current collection plus some extras, win their 30-40 games to get in their usual sweet spot of achieving nothing of note but with poor draft position, and then, blow it up at that point.

Maybe they get lucky and it works out, but it won't, but it's just another three years. I know Wingo doesn't have much time, but hey.

Maybe we are differing on definition of risky. Collect up their thin pile of non compelling youth and go in on Mitchell or Zion? I guess, IF they leave enough left over to be decent/be able to make at least some kinds of moves to get better

Ultimately you aren't wrong at trying to take a risk in a trade or blow it up, but I don't think waiting another few years matters either way.

[Chanel Bomber]

Knicks are capped out for the next few years, especially after they inevitably sign RJ.
Everyone they'll be getting will be UFA S&Ts or outright trades.

Of course, that's conditional on anyone wanting to come to the Knicks and also the Knicks having anything worthwhile to offer in the other direction which basically isn't true now and will probably not be the case in a year or two, where in fact, situation will probably be worse both in the quality of the team and the "assets" it has for trades.

I guess if the Knicks blow it up now they could be under the cap so the next regime could come in and sign the next Randle.

Who is 24 years old right now, seems decent but probably isn't that great? Maybe the Knicks max out JJJ in 3 years after trading Randle and RJ for cap space.

I think what you outlined here illustrates perfectly why the Knicks cannot stand pat and need to need a calcilated risk on a win-now package, or a complete tear-down for draft capital.

The Knicks' current talent base will not allow them to climb high up the NBA ladder. It's simply too weak in my opinion.

Hmm. Maybe.
I think "risky, win now" moves over the years are one of the reasons the Knicks are in this situation. Always looking for the shortcut.

I suppose there is the iterative step where the Knicks get Brunson (or something) resign RJ and then move them in 3 years.

Really, outside of the fairly unrealistic scenario of the Knicks trading everything for picks and cap space (after you said nothing the Knicks have is that compelling), is the Knicks attempt to "win" with the current collection plus some extras, win their 30-40 games to get in their usual sweet spot of achieving nothing of note but with poor draft position, and then, blow it up at that point.

Maybe they get lucky and it works out, but it won't, but it's just another three years. I know Wingo doesn't have much time, but hey.

Maybe we are differing on definition of risky. Collect up their thin pile of non compelling youth and go in on Mitchell or Zion? I guess, IF they leave enough left over to be decent/be able to make at least some kinds of moves to get better

Ultimately you aren't wrong at trying to take a risk in a trade or blow it up, but I don't think waiting another few years matters either way.

The issue is the Knicks have a history of taking the short-cut with non-stars. That's why it doesn't work.

The Knicks traded for a star in Melo and it opened a window. At least the Knicks were relevant for 3 years, before the organization's incompetence became too much to overcome. It's the only time in the last 20+ years that the Knicks broke the cycle.

There are incompetent or desperate organizations who might be interested in our pile of mediocrity and overvalue some of our vets and young players. Usually it's the Knicks. My bet is Sacramento and Detroit. Maybe LA re: Randle.

[duetta]

When the Knicks traded for a me-first NBA celebrity, it only opened up a brief window into mediocrity before a longer-term descent into misery and shame. Every truly great team has drafted its own players or signed them as complete FAs.

The acquisition of one NBA celebrity doesn't get you anywhere. It just turns you into the Washington Wizards. Is Mitchell so much better than Beal? Do either one of them defend a lick? Even when Beal was completely healthy, the Wizards were a threat to go nowhere in the East.

How many of you were arguing that we should 'blow it up' for Beal not long ago. I think you're bored and need to find a hobby.

Nets are about to go out in about five games despite having a player that jockrider scribes like Lupica and O'Connor are now calling the best player to ever play in NYC! I'd like to see brittle Kevin have to withstand the pounding of a Ricky Mahorn or Bill Laimbeer, must less Wilt Chamberlain.

[spree2kawhi]

Knicks are capped out for the next few years, especially after they inevitably sign RJ.
Everyone they'll be getting will be UFA S&Ts or outright trades.

Of course, that's conditional on anyone wanting to come to the Knicks and also the Knicks having anything worthwhile to offer in the other direction which basically isn't true now and will probably not be the case in a year or two, where in fact, situation will probably be worse both in the quality of the team and the "assets" it has for trades.

I guess if the Knicks blow it up now they could be under the cap so the next regime could come in and sign the next Randle.

Who is 24 years old right now, seems decent but probably isn't that great? Maybe the Knicks max out JJJ in 3 years after trading Randle and RJ for cap space.

I think what you outlined here illustrates perfectly why the Knicks cannot stand pat and need to need a calcilated risk on a win-now package, or a complete tear-down for draft capital.

The Knicks' current talent base will not allow them to climb high up the NBA ladder. It's simply too weak in my opinion.

Hmm. Maybe.
I think "risky, win now" moves over the years are one of the reasons the Knicks are in this situation. Always looking for the shortcut.

I suppose there is the iterative step where the Knicks get Brunson (or something) resign RJ and then move them in 3 years.

Really, outside of the fairly unrealistic scenario of the Knicks trading everything for picks and cap space (after you said nothing the Knicks have is that compelling), is the Knicks attempt to "win" with the current collection plus some extras, win their 30-40 games to get in their usual sweet spot of achieving nothing of note but with poor draft position, and then, blow it up at that point.

Maybe they get lucky and it works out, but it won't, but it's just another three years. I know Wingo doesn't have much time, but hey.

Maybe we are differing on definition of risky. Collect up their thin pile of non compelling youth and go in on Mitchell or Zion? I guess, IF they leave enough left over to be decent/be able to make at least some kinds of moves to get better

Ultimately you aren't wrong at trying to take a risk in a trade or blow it up, but I don't think waiting another few years matters either way.

Tearing it all the way down is the only feasible direction by now imo.

I don’t care about the Brunsons of the league for now. Signing such a middling talent now cements mediocrity for another decade. He’s good, but not a franchise changing player and we’re still too far away for such additions to be considered. I also think that is pretty obvious.

[seren]

IQ is a better defender and his per 36 stats is ahead of Brunson’s in the second year. We need to stop chasing other teams’ non star players and give ours a chance.