Tatum VS Luka

[SA37]

Even if Doncic may be the better player, I'd still prefer Tatum because of his style of play and because of his demeanor.

[gizardoe]

I will take Tatum because of the defensive potential

[Bob8]

The closest is the box creation stat, along with playmaking talent.

Box creation
Luka: 16.0
Tatum:8.0

Playmaking talent
Luka 2.77
Tatum 1.46

Luka clearly has a huge edge as a playmaker, though Tatum’s scoring gravity edge narrows the gap some, as it leads to wide open shots even if he’s not the guy getting the assist. Luka is a PG though, so it makes sense that he has the large gap.

One thing I will point out, if the numbers were for the last few months, Tatum’s number was much higher. He has the 4th highest box creation so far in this playoffs, his playmaking is improving rapidly.

You really believe playoffs small sample size means something, especially if all games is against 1 opponent? Brunson is great example, he's thriving against Utah and he was disastrous against Clippers last year. 2 teams with totally different D.

If you’re going to be disingenuous, this isn’t worth either of our time. But yes one playoff series does matter if it’s just a continuation of what’s been happening the last few months.

I can't agree that 4 games sample size matter much. I'm not talking only about Tatum but everyone. Look at Trae by example, he's on opposite side of things, bad matchup for him and his numbers are disastrous.

If you incorporate this playoffs numbers in last 2 months than I agree it matters, but you specifically used 4 games sample against pretty pedestrian Nets. And I doubt that 2 months sample is near that impressive.

I like Tatum by the way, a lot, I just don't see great playmaking talent in him. I might be proven wrong, but I will need a little more data.

[tsherkin]

I like Tatum by the way, a lot, I just don't see great playmaking talent in him. I might be proven wrong, but I will need a little more data.

He might not be a top-end playmaker, but he is also in the middle of a season where he is evidencing clear and specific improvement in what he can do in that aspect of the game. He is worth watching, as a result, as far as that element of his game, particularly coupled to everything else he can do.

[Bob8]

You really believe playoffs small sample size means something, especially if all games is against 1 opponent? Brunson is great example, he's thriving against Utah and he was disastrous against Clippers last year. 2 teams with totally different D.

I mean, if it helps...

Luca was 5th in the league in Assist Points Created during the regular season, first in Secondary Assists, 5th in APG and 5th in Potential Assists.

That's over 65 games, rather than the playoff sample. Now, some of this pertains to volume of ball-handling/playmaking duties and all that, to be sure, but the idea that Doncic is doing this just over the first round isn't really applicable.

We were talking about Tatum being 4th best in playoffs.

[Feed Your Head]

You really believe playoffs small sample size means something, especially if all games is against 1 opponent? Brunson is great example, he's thriving against Utah and he was disastrous against Clippers last year. 2 teams with totally different D.

If you’re going to be disingenuous, this isn’t worth either of our time. But yes one playoff series does matter if it’s just a continuation of what’s been happening the last few months.

I like Tatum by the way, a lot, I just don't see great playmaking talent in him. I might be proven wrong, but I will need a little more data.

This is completely fair, but I do think we see it continue.

[tsherkin]

We were talking about Tatum being 4th best in playoffs.

Yes, I was just adding some extra context about trends. Tatum has been on a slowly-rising curve, so it's not surprising that his performance in the playoffs falls along that trend.

[Madhouse]

I like Luka but I think his impact is not quiet as big as people think it is.

Give me the 2 way stud in Tatum.

[tsherkin]

I like Luka but I think his impact is not quiet as big as people think it is.

There isn't much to support that notion. Garbage before him, steadily improved with him, top-end all-around player. Significant offensive impact, elevates his game in the playoffs.

It's okay to like Tatum, for sure, and maybe Tatum ends up the better overall player due to his defensive excellence... but Doncic is balling like a monster and has a large impact on Dallas' fortunes.

[Madhouse]

I like Luka but I think his impact is not quiet as big as people think it is.

There isn't much to support that notion. Garbage before him, steadily improved with him, top-end all-around player. Significant offensive impact, elevates his game in the playoffs.

It's okay to like Tatum, for sure, and maybe Tatum ends up the better overall player due to his defensive excellence... but Doncic is balling like a monster and has a large impact on Dallas' fortunes.

He does have a big impact, not denying it, just don't think it's a top 5 impact in the league and I think Tatum might have top 5 impact overall.

[tsherkin]

He does have a big impact, not denying it, just don't think it's a top 5 impact in the league and I think Tatum might have top 5 impact overall.

Hard to see the support for that first statement. I can see where, leastwise constrained to this playoff series, the second one has some weight, but if we're going to focus on the playoffs, then you have to contend with the much LARGER impact Doncic produces in playoff basketball. He's an offensive titan in the postseason at this point in his career, and in this series.

[bisme37]

Nba executives don't have much doubt,

https://hoopshype.com/lists/nba-execs-poll-luka-doncic-top-young-player-zion-williamson-lamelo-ball-evan-mobley/

That's all from me.

That's from months ago and the same executives who overwhelmingly picked the Nets to win the title this year, followed by the Lakers.

[madmaxmedia]

One thing I love about both guys is that they are able to rise to the occasion.

The absolute best way to settle this would be a Mavs/Celtics championship series, that's how good both of them are.

[ForeverTFC]

My gut says Luka, my brain says it has to be Tatum at this point.

If you asked this last year, I would have laughed and a made "and Tatum is still only 19" joke. But Tatum has finally become the star everyone pretended he was until this year. Crazy that everything clicked for him in front of our eyes.

[Robillion]

This debate is obvious recency bias and only happening because Luka was out the first 3 games of the playoffs.

He has been the better playoff and regular season performer his whole NBA career. Luka is better in every stat this past regular season (including Steals and Blocks), besides FT% and a few advanced stats.

Defense is clear advantage Tatum.. but even that isn't as big of a gap as people are saying in this thread or the talking heads on ESPN, etc. say. Luka wasn't a great defender to start his career, but he is more than passable this season and anyone that has paid attention this season to him can see it... hell he leads all playoff players right now in Defensive Win Shares (albeit in just the two games he has played so far).

[tsherkin]

One thing I love about both guys is that they are able to rise to the occasion.

The absolute best way to settle this would be a Mavs/Celtics championship series, that's how good both of them are.

I think that would be a really fun series to watch, for sure.

[Bob8]

Nba executives don't have much doubt,

https://hoopshype.com/lists/nba-execs-poll-luka-doncic-top-young-player-zion-williamson-lamelo-ball-evan-mobley/

That's all from me.

That's from months ago and the same executives who overwhelmingly picked the Nets to win the title this year, followed by the Lakers.

I would still believe that Nba executives should know a little bit more than us casual fans.

[tsherkin]

I would still believe that Nba executives should know a little bit more than us casual fans.

Why? That's an appeal to authority fallacy. Plenty of executives show that they don't know what they're doing on the regular. Even setting aside that talent evaluation is a challenging and mercurial thing. They aren't fortune tellers, and their place in NBA front offices affords them no real advantage over anyone else in terms of their ability to predict the league.

[Texas Chuck]

I would still believe that Nba executives should know a little bit more than us casual fans.

Why? That's an appeal to authority fallacy. Plenty of executives show that they don't know what they're doing on the regular. Even setting aside that talent evaluation is a challenging and mercurial thing. They aren't fortune tellers, and their place in NBA front offices affords them no real advantage over anyone else in terms of their ability to predict the league.

He used the term should. And Bob is right. They should know more than us guys chatting on the internet as a hobby. I agree it doesn't mean they always get things right, but its a very reasonable ask that the guys running NBA teams know more than ole Texas Chuck. I mean I'm maxing out 38 year old JJ Barea if I'm in charge of a team.

[tsherkin]

He used the term should.

Fair! I actually read right past that because I'm on tilt from a similar debate with someone else, lol. That's on me.

They really SHOULD know better. They just... don't, on the regular.