With the 4th Pick, the Raptors select Scottie Barnes! Part 2

[ontnut]

A better question is, who would the Raps select if they had the 1, 2 or 3 pick?

Would it still be Barnes?

There was a lot of noise about them trying to move up to 3rd right up until draft day for what that’s worth. If accurate that tells me they wanted Mobley.

I'm led to believe that the Raptors board looked like:
Cade
Mobley

Barnes

Green
Suggs

I doubt they were looking at anyone else with the 4th pick.

ESPN and others were pushing a top 3 tier A with Cade/Mobley/Green, and Suggs in Tier A-, with the rest in Tier B or below.
I'm not sure the Raptors loved Green given that he's not much for the defensive end. Clearly they ranked Barnes over Suggs.

Once Mobley fell to the Cavs I don't think they were going to trade the pick, and if they did it would probably cost us at least a future unprotected 1st. I think they had Mobley ranked over Green (as many did).

Everyone in the top 4 got their guy and are happy with their pick.

[ontnut]

Scottie shot 30% 3PT on 2.6 shots per game.
Part of that maybe due to Scottie longer arms, which means more variation in his shooting motion.

He shot 27.5% on 1.7 attempts in college so while his shot was improved

I think we should be more realistic about his improvements next year

Definitely agree that shooting is the most important area to target. However, having an effective handle is a lot more than just protecting the ball - Scottie can already do that with his frame & reach. But he does need a better handle to start doing things like running P&R, getting passes off in any angle/situation, maneuvering the defence, etc.

One of the great things about Scottie is that he's very coachable and willing to work on his weaknesses. He actually already has a ball handling coach. Right after Scottie won ROTY the guy shouted out to Scottie and the first thing he said was, "Still a lot more work to be done". Scottie re-posted it. You love to see it.

He'll probably be on the Siakam development curve from 3. As long as he gets to the league average 35-36% range one day, we'll should all be happy with it. If he gets over that, then you're talking about superstar territory for a guy with his skill/size package.

[Clay Davis]

A better question is, who would the Raps select if they had the 1, 2 or 3 pick?

Would it still be Barnes?

There was a lot of noise about them trying to move up to 3rd right up until draft day for what that’s worth. If accurate that tells me they wanted Mobley.

I'm led to believe that the Raptors board looked like:
Cade
Mobley

Barnes

Green
Suggs

I doubt they were looking at anyone else with the 4th pick.

ESPN and others were pushing a top 3 tier A with Cade/Mobley/Green, and Suggs in Tier A-, with the rest in Tier B or below.
I'm not sure the Raptors loved Green given that he's not much for the defensive end. Clearly they ranked Barnes over Suggs.

Once Mobley fell to the Cavs I don't think they were going to trade the pick, and if they did it would probably cost us at least a future unprotected 1st. I think they had Mobley ranked over Green (as many did).

Everyone in the top 4 got their guy and are happy with their pick.

I wonder if they trade the pick if Cade, Mobley, and Barnes were drafted in the top 3? I wouldn't have minded, at the time, if they kept the pick and drafted Green.

[ontnut]

There was a lot of noise about them trying to move up to 3rd right up until draft day for what that’s worth. If accurate that tells me they wanted Mobley.

I'm led to believe that the Raptors board looked like:
Cade
Mobley

Barnes

Green
Suggs

I doubt they were looking at anyone else with the 4th pick.

ESPN and others were pushing a top 3 tier A with Cade/Mobley/Green, and Suggs in Tier A-, with the rest in Tier B or below.
I'm not sure the Raptors loved Green given that he's not much for the defensive end. Clearly they ranked Barnes over Suggs.

Once Mobley fell to the Cavs I don't think they were going to trade the pick, and if they did it would probably cost us at least a future unprotected 1st. I think they had Mobley ranked over Green (as many did).

Everyone in the top 4 got their guy and are happy with their pick.

I wonder if they trade the pick if Cade, Mobley, and Barnes were drafted in the top 3? I wouldn't have minded, at the time, if they kept the pick and drafted Green.

I wonder about it too. Not sure how they viewed Green's defensive fit with the team, but we also know that the team could use a go-to scorer ever since Kawhi left. I doubt they trade the pick, drafting top 4 is a once a decade kinda thing for the Raps.

[Madhouse]

Scottie shot 30% 3PT on 2.6 shots per game.
Part of that maybe due to Scottie longer arms, which means more variation in his shooting motion.

He shot 27.5% on 1.7 attempts in college so while his shot was improved

I think we should be more realistic about his improvements next year

Definitely agree that shooting is the most important area to target. However, having an effective handle is a lot more than just protecting the ball - Scottie can already do that with his frame & reach. But he does need a better handle to start doing things like running P&R, getting passes off in any angle/situation, maneuvering the defence, etc.

One of the great things about Scottie is that he's very coachable and willing to work on his weaknesses. He actually already has a ball handling coach. Right after Scottie won ROTY the guy shouted out to Scottie and the first thing he said was, "Still a lot more work to be done". Scottie re-posted it. You love to see it.

His shooting will improve, it already has.

The Klaw went from being a 25% college 3pt shooter to a 37% shooter in the NBA after the lockout.

It's all about the work you put in.

Barnes has not had the time to work on that thus far. He was drafted in late July, then played in the summer league, training camp, preseason and start of NBA season in October.

The progress of the threepoint shooting is not linear. It just happens suddenly. Siakam for example went from 22% to 37% from 1 year to the next.

Give him an offseason and his shot will be pretty, pretty good. Although obviously if we advance in the playoffs, he will have less time.

[LoveMyRaps]

NBA just put out a 15min ROTY mixtape for Scottie Barnes.

ENJOY:

Watch on YouTube

[Madhouse]

There's nothing wrong with Scotti's handle.
He may not have a killer crossover like Kyrie...but it's not like he's getting stripped.
Can his handle get tighter, sure. He's a rookie, all parts of his game need development. I'm sure this will be a part of his growth.
But the most glaring issue this off-season will be his shooting.
Future is bright.

Sent from my Mi 9T Pro using RealGM mobile app

Definitely agree that shooting is the most important area to target. However, having an effective handle is a lot more than just protecting the ball - Scottie can already do that with his frame & reach. But he does need a better handle to start doing things like running P&R, getting passes off in any angle/situation, maneuvering the defence, etc.

One of the great things about Scottie is that he's very coachable and willing to work on his weaknesses. He actually already has a ball handling coach. Right after Scottie won ROTY the guy shouted out to Scottie and the first thing he said was, "Still a lot more work to be done". Scottie re-posted it. You love to see it.

He has many coaches. He will work with a personal shooting coach as well.

[Clay Davis]

I'm led to believe that the Raptors board looked like:
Cade
Mobley

Barnes

Green
Suggs

I doubt they were looking at anyone else with the 4th pick.

ESPN and others were pushing a top 3 tier A with Cade/Mobley/Green, and Suggs in Tier A-, with the rest in Tier B or below.
I'm not sure the Raptors loved Green given that he's not much for the defensive end. Clearly they ranked Barnes over Suggs.

Once Mobley fell to the Cavs I don't think they were going to trade the pick, and if they did it would probably cost us at least a future unprotected 1st. I think they had Mobley ranked over Green (as many did).

Everyone in the top 4 got their guy and are happy with their pick.

I wonder if they trade the pick if Cade, Mobley, and Barnes were drafted in the top 3? I wouldn't have minded, at the time, if they kept the pick and drafted Green.

I wonder about it too. Not sure how they viewed Green's defensive fit with the team, but we also know that the team could use a go-to scorer ever since Kawhi left. I doubt they trade the pick, drafting top 4 is a once a decade kinda thing for the Raps.

Green's defense would definitely have been a worry, but I imagine it would come down to the interview where they'd gauge his ability to engage and improve. I wonder what would have happened with GTJ, though.

I was watching Scotties rookie of the year compilation and couldn't shake the idea that we actually got the best player in the draft. He's not too far away from being a three level scorer, is the second best defender at worst, has the best passing-vision, while also having the most endearing personality. Plus he can play all five positions (well, he can defend SGs.). I'd have been a fan of his no matter which team he went to.

Sent from my moto g(8) power lite using RealGM mobile app

[Los_29]

A better question is, who would the Raps select if they had the 1, 2 or 3 pick?

Would it still be Barnes?

As crazy as it sounds, I think Scottie could've been #1 on their draft board. It's not even that crazy when you factor in that lots of people around the league had Scottie #1 or #2 on their draft board.

I can easily see them being interested in Cade due to his offensive potential and I can also see them being very interested in Mobley due to his defense. But Scottie is literally perfect for what this team is trying to do. Great size, great athleticism, high basketball IQ, versatile defensively, plays with energy and passion.

I never felt there was anything behind those rumours of Masai wanting to trade up. Not only was there not much behind it but it's just something that Masai doesn't do.

[anotherhomer]

Are you saying the rumours that Raps were trying to trade up for the #3 pick with Cavs
was a diversion tactic to getting everyone to believe we wanted Mobley?

A better question is, who would the Raps select if they had the 1, 2 or 3 pick?

Would it still be Barnes?

As crazy as it sounds, I think Scottie could've been #1 on their draft board. It's not even that crazy when you factor in that lots of people around the league had Scottie #1 or #2 on their draft board.

I can easily see them being interested in Cade due to his offensive potential and I can also see them being very interested in Mobley due to his defense. But Scottie is literally perfect for what this team is trying to do. Great size, great athleticism, high basketball IQ, versatile defensively, plays with energy and passion.

I never felt there was anything behind those rumours of Masai wanting to trade up. Not only was there not much behind it but it's just something that Masai doesn't do.

[anotherhomer]

Maybe you right.
His 3PT% may still hover around the same stats next year
but hopefully, he'll look more comfortable taking them next year, in various ways.

If he eventually hovers around the 35-37% mark in a few years, i think that be fantastic
Even 33-34% would help greatly.

Scottie shot 30% 3PT on 2.6 shots per game.
Part of that maybe due to Scottie longer arms, which means more variation in his shooting motion.

He shot 27.5% on 1.7 attempts in college so while his shot was improved

I think we should be more realistic about his improvements next year

One of the great things about Scottie is that he's very coachable and willing to work on his weaknesses. He actually already has a ball handling coach. Right after Scottie won ROTY the guy shouted out to Scottie and the first thing he said was, "Still a lot more work to be done". Scottie re-posted it. You love to see it.

His shooting will improve, it already has.

The Klaw went from being a 25% college 3pt shooter to a 37% shooter in the NBA after the lockout.

It's all about the work you put in.

Barnes has not had the time to work on that thus far. He was drafted in late July, then played in the summer league, training camp, preseason and start of NBA season in October.

The progress of the threepoint shooting is not linear. It just happens suddenly. Siakam for example went from 22% to 37% from 1 year to the next.

Give him an offseason and his shot will be pretty, pretty good. Although obviously if we advance in the playoffs, he will have less time.

[xAIRNESSx]

There were some rumours our board was:

1. Mobley
2. Scottie
3. Cade

[anotherhomer]

There were some rumours our board was:

1. Mobley
2. Scottie
3. Cade

I think what people are now saying is that Raptors wanted Scottie all along but, was contend to let the rumour float they wanted Mobley at #1 to throw people off

[Los_29]

Are you saying the rumours that Raps were trying to trade up for the #3 pick with Cavs
was a diversion tactic to getting everyone to believe we wanted Mobley?

A better question is, who would the Raps select if they had the 1, 2 or 3 pick?

Would it still be Barnes?

As crazy as it sounds, I think Scottie could've been #1 on their draft board. It's not even that crazy when you factor in that lots of people around the league had Scottie #1 or #2 on their draft board.

I can easily see them being interested in Cade due to his offensive potential and I can also see them being very interested in Mobley due to his defense. But Scottie is literally perfect for what this team is trying to do. Great size, great athleticism, high basketball IQ, versatile defensively, plays with energy and passion.

I never felt there was anything behind those rumours of Masai wanting to trade up. Not only was there not much behind it but it's just something that Masai doesn't do.

Not sure but I don't think there was anything behind it at least from what I read. There were rumours that we wanted to trade down, trade up and stand pat at 4. The most likely scenario was those rumours that we wanted to trade up and down were just a whole lot of nothing.

I think this front office knew how good Scottie was and had no interest in moving up. I don't even think they worked out Mobley. Although I could be wrong.

[Madhouse]

Maybe you right.
His 3PT% may still hover around the same stats next year
but hopefully, he'll look more comfortable taking them next year, in various ways.

If he eventually hovers around the 35-37% mark in a few years, i think that be fantastic
Even 33-34% would help greatly.

Scottie shot 30% 3PT on 2.6 shots per game.
Part of that maybe due to Scottie longer arms, which means more variation in his shooting motion.

He shot 27.5% on 1.7 attempts in college so while his shot was improved

I think we should be more realistic about his improvements next year

His shooting will improve, it already has.

The Klaw went from being a 25% college 3pt shooter to a 37% shooter in the NBA after the lockout.

It's all about the work you put in.

Barnes has not had the time to work on that thus far. He was drafted in late July, then played in the summer league, training camp, preseason and start of NBA season in October.

The progress of the threepoint shooting is not linear. It just happens suddenly. Siakam for example went from 22% to 37% from 1 year to the next.

Give him an offseason and his shot will be pretty, pretty good. Although obviously if we advance in the playoffs, he will have less time.

I think he improves to 37-38% next year. Shooting motion will get sped up.

[ontnut]

I wonder if they trade the pick if Cade, Mobley, and Barnes were drafted in the top 3? I wouldn't have minded, at the time, if they kept the pick and drafted Green.

I wonder about it too. Not sure how they viewed Green's defensive fit with the team, but we also know that the team could use a go-to scorer ever since Kawhi left. I doubt they trade the pick, drafting top 4 is a once a decade kinda thing for the Raps.

Green's defense would definitely have been a worry, but I imagine it would come down to the interview where they'd gauge his ability to engage and improve. I wonder what would have happened with GTJ, though.

I was watching Scotties rookie of the year compilation and couldn't shake the idea that we actually got the best player in the draft. He's not too far away from being a three level scorer, is the second best defender at worst, has the best passing-vision, while also having the most endearing personality. Plus he can play all five positions (well, he can defend SGs.). I'd have been a fan of his no matter which team he went to.

Sent from my moto g(8) power lite using RealGM mobile app

Green seems like a good kid, most of the guys at the top do really. They all seem like hard workers with good personality traits.

I assume one of GTJ/Green would've ended up coming off the bench depending on who played better as a starter. We'd then probably be looking to move GTJ for wing depth. Green at 6'4" is about the same height as GTJ.

Could not agree more re: Scottie. Cade looks really damn good though, and Mobley obviously has massive potential as a KG type defensive anchor. Definitely a great rookie class.

[ontnut]

Maybe you right.
His 3PT% may still hover around the same stats next year
but hopefully, he'll look more comfortable taking them next year, in various ways.

If he eventually hovers around the 35-37% mark in a few years, i think that be fantastic
Even 33-34% would help greatly.

His shooting will improve, it already has.

The Klaw went from being a 25% college 3pt shooter to a 37% shooter in the NBA after the lockout.

It's all about the work you put in.

Barnes has not had the time to work on that thus far. He was drafted in late July, then played in the summer league, training camp, preseason and start of NBA season in October.

The progress of the threepoint shooting is not linear. It just happens suddenly. Siakam for example went from 22% to 37% from 1 year to the next.

Give him an offseason and his shot will be pretty, pretty good. Although obviously if we advance in the playoffs, he will have less time.

I think he improves to 37-38% next year. Shooting motion will get sped up.

That's a masssssive leap from 30%. I'd take the under on that for sure. My guess is he'll flirt around the 33% mark next year.

Siakam's jump to 37% in his MIP year was surprising for all. I'm thinking the presence of Kawhi had a lot to do with it. He's since regressed YOY in terms of percentage and attempts, as he changes his game to more on-ball.

I would think that also applies to Barnes. More ball handling responsibility might prevent him from getting as many 3's up. He's injured, but 0/5 from 3 in the playoffs so far. Not great, but obviously small sample.

[Clay Davis]

There were some rumours our board was:

1. Mobley
2. Scottie
3. Cade

Dude could you imagine what'd happen if we picked Scottie when Cade was available? This place would literally assplode.

[anotherhomer]

I think if he can get to 33% on the same shot attempts, I think that would be great

But if it stays at 30% with increased amount of jumpers, that can be a good thing too

Maybe you right.
His 3PT% may still hover around the same stats next year
but hopefully, he'll look more comfortable taking them next year, in various ways.

If he eventually hovers around the 35-37% mark in a few years, i think that be fantastic
Even 33-34% would help greatly.

I think he improves to 37-38% next year. Shooting motion will get sped up.

That's a masssssive leap from 30%. I'd take the under on that for sure. My guess is he'll flirt around the 33% mark next year.

[ontnut]

I think if he can get to 33% on the same shot attempts, I think that would be great

But if it stays at 30% with increased amount of jumpers, that can be a good thing too

I think he improves to 37-38% next year. Shooting motion will get sped up.

That's a masssssive leap from 30%. I'd take the under on that for sure. My guess is he'll flirt around the 33% mark next year.

30% from 3 would be an inefficient shot for him. 0.9ppa
He shoots 54% from 2. 1.08ppa

If he's shooting 30% from 3, I'd much rather him take those nice 2's around the rim he's so good at.

To equal his efficiency from 2, he'd have to shoot 36% from 3. So as long as he's shooting below that league average 35-36%, I'd much rather him take the occassional 3 when he's wide open, and spend the rest of his possessions getting to the hoop and setting others up.