2022 Hawks and the 2002 76ers

atlantabbq99 · Post #1 » by **atlantabbq99** » Wed Apr 27, 2022 2:42 pm

What we learn from the 2022 Hawks is that defense and post defense matters.

The 2022 Hawks reminds me of the 2002 76ers.

Hawks have Trae, and 76ers had Iverson, both players basically have the same impact.

in 2001 Iverson and some defensive roll players made it all the way to the finals, but then the following year in 2002, the sixers got knocked out in the first round.

Some would say that the sixers got better from 2001 to 2002 by swapping out Tyron Hill for Derrick Coleman and Aaron McKie for Derrick McKey, and George Lynch for Matt Harpering. Sixers wanted to take off the scoring load from Iverson by swapping out defense for offense. The experiment was a bust and as a result, Iverson was never able to make a deep playoff run for the rest of his career... Do we want the same thing to happen to Trae?

We need to learn from the 2002 76ers and make sure not to make the same mistake they did. Trae can handle the scoring and clutch time, and all player movements from 2 to 12 should be to improve defensively.

Cap is very important to the team and a suitable backup should be looked into for Cap. Collins is ok, but if improvements can be made at the PF spot on the defensive end, then it should be made.

The same can also be said for the Kidd Nets and the decline the Nets had when KMart left.

Post #2 » by **Jamaaliver** » Wed Apr 27, 2022 3:31 pm

This is a really thought provoking sentiment.

But I see the failure from this post season as an indictment on the offense.

In a five game series, we only scored 100 points in two of the games. For one of the top offenses in the NBA, that's unfathomable.

I see a need to revamp the offense and find a true secondary scorer/playmaker.

jayu70 · Post #3 » by **jayu70** » Wed Apr 27, 2022 3:36 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:This is a really thought provoking sentiment.

But I see the failure from this post season as an indictment on the offense.

In a five game series, we only scored 100 points in two of the games. For one of the top offenses in the NBA, that's unfathomable.

I see a need to revamp the offense and find a true secondary scorer/playmaker.

Agreed. Nobody else could make their presence felt with all the focus on Trae.
And I hate Nate's offense....sounds too much of the shot clock trying to get the mismatch.

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atlantabbq99 · Post #4 » by **atlantabbq99** » Wed Apr 27, 2022 4:36 pm

^ eh well i don't agree, i think if Cap gets a steady 35 minutes, 15 boards and a bunch of lobs, it makes it into a 7 game series. Even though Cap doesn't shoot threes, his presence on both ends make a huge different on the dynamic of the defense and offense.

Looking back, if only the sixers could get a guy like Bo Outlaw and Eddie Jones, it would have changed Iverson's whole career, and given him more deep layoff runs, but the only Iverson playoff memory we have is the step over Ty lue and thats it.

Remember for the last 30 years, only a team with a top 5 defense has won a championship. Hawks will never be a contender or make another deep playoff run until they get a top 5 defense again.

D21 · Post #5 » by **D21** » Wed Apr 27, 2022 11:07 pm

atlantabbq99 wrote:What we learn from the 2022 Hawks is that defense and post defense matters.

The 2022 Hawks reminds me of the 2002 76ers.

Interesting, but IMHO, there is a point missing: I don't remember the 2002' PHI as a team that had his C missing three games then playing injured, his PF playing injured and other things like this, and if ATL had these guys fully healthy, even with other wing/back-court players injured, the defense would have been totally different (and offense as these not mowing like usual reduced Trae options)

We know the defense they can play, we saw it last year, and it's the same players.
It's injury, mental (I think Hunter could have played with more energy if he didn't had several consecutive injuries because of management rushing him the last two times) and... coaching.
We don't need a top defense, at least an average one, and just being able to increase the intensity in some moments.
And pretty sure that if all ATL players were in a MIA training every day, they could be not as good as them but not so far

There was injuries last season, and this season, but overall, it's the mentality that was the biggest difference, and it includes all the guys that got paid last summer.
Fully healthy, they may have been NBA champion last season. Give them a coach like Pop, and no way you come form being at champion level to this lack of energy in one season only.
Nate never has this "believe" voice on his face like last season, it was like from the first injuries in the beginning of the seasons, they were all depressed. Just Trae finding motivation in the fact that if he was good enough to be All-NBA, he could make 30M more on his contract.

And Iverson looked like a all offense guy, but he had far more will to win that anybody in ATL team this season. If ATL players had to copy something from 2002' PHI, it has to be that first

atlantabbq99 · Post #6 » by **atlantabbq99** » Wed Apr 27, 2022 11:21 pm

D21 wrote:
atlantabbq99 wrote:What we learn from the 2022 Hawks is that defense and post defense matters.

The 2022 Hawks reminds me of the 2002 76ers.

Interesting, but IMHO, there is a point missing: I don't remember the 2002' PHI as a team that had his C missing three games then playing injured, his PF playing injured and other things like this, and if ATL had these guys fully healthy, even with other wing/back-court players injured, the defense would have been totally different (and offense as these not mowing like usual reduced Trae options)

We know the defense they can play, we saw it last year, and it's the same players.
It's injury, mental (I think Hunter could have played with more energy if he didn't had several consecutive injuries because of management rushing him the last two times) and... coaching.
We don't need a top defense, at least an average one, and just being able to increase the intensity in some moments.
And pretty sure that if all ATL players were in a MIA training every day, they could be not as good as them but not so far

There was injuries last season, and this season, but overall, it's the mentality that was the biggest difference, and it includes all the guys that got paid last summer.
Fully healthy, they may have been NBA champion last season. Give them a coach like Pop, and no way you come form being at champion level to this lack of energy in one season only.
Nate never has this "believe" voice on his face like last season, it was like from the first injuries in the beginning of the seasons, they were all depressed. Just Trae finding motivation in the fact that if he was good enough to be All-NBA, he could make 30M more on his contract.

Ya, but i think sixers lost alot of defense with Coleman and Harpering even though Mutombo was there and Mutombo was on the decline.

I do agree with you about Cap's injury problems in 2022. That is why I have made dozens of comments this year about getting Mitch Robinson and getting a deep bench, because I already know Cap is going to miss +20 games in 2023 due to injury and I would love to see load management for Cap going into next year so that he can give 35 minutes in the playoffs.

D21 · Post #7 » by **D21** » Wed Apr 27, 2022 11:49 pm

atlantabbq99 wrote:Ya, but i think sixers lost alot of defense with Coleman and Harpering even though Mutombo was there and Mutombo was on the decline.

I do agree with you about Cap's injury problems in 2022. That is why I have made dozens of comments this year about getting Mitch Robinson and getting a deep bench, because I already know Cap is going to miss +20 games in 2023 due to injury and I would love to see load management for Cap going into next year so that he can give 35 minutes in the playoffs.

That's certainly a good idea to manage Clint more than that.
The thing I understand comparing both teams is that in a way, Trae uses the ball like Iverson, and you can't have a lot of players like these in a roster, because if you add another one, it will be at the cost of less shots for the other, and if one of your main offensive guy is hurt, it totally change the team balance.

The thing is that, offensive or defensive, do we need to add a "star" more than two role players like Tucker?
I'm not sure at all we need a one more star player. We just need the role players that other teams get, that play defense at the same level than offense. We only had Okongwu coming from the bench and playing great defense, but no veteran.

Post #8 » by **Jamaaliver** » Wed Apr 27, 2022 11:56 pm

atlantabbq99 wrote:Remember for the last 30 years, only a team with a top 5 defense has won a championship. Hawks will never be a contender or make another deep playoff run until they get a top 5 defense again.

I'm not sure that is accurate. But I did find a slightly more relevant nugget:

Code: Select all

During the past 10 seasons, only one team has made the NBA Finals with a halfcourt offense that ranked outside of the top 10 in the regular season: The Los Angeles Lakers in 2020.

Miami Herald

atlantabbq99 · Post #9 » by **atlantabbq99** » Thu Apr 28, 2022 12:18 am

D21 wrote:
atlantabbq99 wrote:Ya, but i think sixers lost alot of defense with Coleman and Harpering even though Mutombo was there and Mutombo was on the decline.

I do agree with you about Cap's injury problems in 2022. That is why I have made dozens of comments this year about getting Mitch Robinson and getting a deep bench, because I already know Cap is going to miss +20 games in 2023 due to injury and I would love to see load management for Cap going into next year so that he can give 35 minutes in the playoffs.

That's certainly a good idea to manage Clint more than that.
The thing I understand comparing both teams is that in a way, Trae uses the ball like Iverson, and you can't have a lot of players like these in a roster, because if you add another one, it will be at the cost of less shots for the other, and if one of your main offensive guy is hurt, it totally change the team balance.

The thing is that, offensive or defensive, do we need to add a "star" more than two role players like Tucker?
I'm not sure at all we need a one more star player. We just need the role players that other teams get, that play defense at the same level than offense. We only had Okongwu coming from the bench and playing great defense, but no veteran.

Ya thats why plan A for me would be AD and plan B would be Mitch Robinson or Bamba, etc

atlantabbq99 · Post #10 » by **atlantabbq99** » Thu Apr 28, 2022 12:20 am

Jamaaliver wrote:
atlantabbq99 wrote:Remember for the last 30 years, only a team with a top 5 defense has won a championship. Hawks will never be a contender or make another deep playoff run until they get a top 5 defense again.

I'm not sure that is accurate. But I did find a slightly more relevant nugget:

Code: Select all
During the past 10 seasons, only one team has made the NBA Finals with a halfcourt offense that ranked outside of the top 10 in the regular season: The Los Angeles Lakers in 2020.
Miami Herald

I know Giannis and the Bucks were a top 5 defense last year. GSW were a top 1 defense for several years. Duncan and the Spurs were a top 3 defense for decades, Lebron on the Heat and Cavs were also a top 5 defense, and Kobe and KG were also a top 5 defense with LA and Boston.