Where does 2022 Jokic rank among great peaks?

[No-more-rings]

Single season, where does it rank? One season per player.

[MyUniBroDavis]

It’s kind of interesting honestly, it’s arguably one of the best offensive peaks and his defense was great altho the post season obv showed that he still has weaknesses on that end that are fair to worry about, but those are weaknesses that wouldn’t be exposed in earlier eras

Off the top of my head, I wouldn’t put it over peak curry or giannis I don’t think (I feel giannis doesn’t get enough love lol, his impact stats were crazy in 2020 and in 2021 they were a bit less crazy because he wasn’t having DPOY impact but I heard that was a role change thing, and his playoff run was absurd and he might’ve had one of the best finals series of all time)

Although I’m def not as high on older guys as most people here are since I kinda view it in a teleport them here kind of way (not purely like that because it’d be unfair, but I def give less leeway)

So looking at the peaks project from 2019, I’d probably say top 15 ish. It’s kind of tough because the only thing that holds him back from being higher for me would be that defensively I think he would struggle against certain teams still, but there are probably eras he’s just a flat out good defender.

[Jaivl]

I find myself considering him vs Garnett or Duncan who are easy top 10 for me, so that's top 15 at minimum.

[70sFan]

I didn't make peaks list in a while, but I've been working on centers peaks recently. My top 10 looked this way before this season:

Kareem
Wilt
Hakeem
Duncan
Shaq
Russell
Robinson
Walton
Jokic
Moses

I think Jokic proved himself to be better than Walton and I'm very close to give him the edge vs Robinson (I actually think a lot about this comparison recently). I think Russell's peak defense is a tier ahead of Jokic's offense and his offense isn't as exploitable as Jokic's defense, so I guess 7th best center peak. That would likely put him inside top 15, at worst top 20.

[falcolombardi]

fairly high, somewhere in the top 20 i woulf guess, maybe even bordering/entering the low end of the top 10 which is historically insane

[Lou Fan]

I didn't make peaks list in a while, but I've been working on centers peaks recently. My top 10 looked this way before this season:

Kareem
Wilt
Hakeem
Duncan
Shaq
Russell
Robinson
Walton
Jokic
Moses

I think Jokic proved himself to be better than Walton and I'm very close to give him the edge vs Robinson (I actually think a lot about this comparison recently). I think Russell's peak defense is a tier ahead of Jokic's offense and his offense isn't as exploitable as Jokic's defense, so I guess 7th best center peak. That would likely put him inside top 15, at worst top 20.

Wow no Curry/Bird? I think they're comfortably top 10.

[Whopper_Sr]

Behind: LeBron/Russell/Wilt/Jordan/Kareem/Duncan/Garnett/Shaq/Hakeem
Debatable: Curry/Magic/Bird/West/Oscar/Robinson/Walton/Giannis

Among the debatable group, I'd go Curry/Robinson > Jokic/Bird/Magic > West/Oscar/Walton/Giannis

So in the #12 to #14 range which is top 15.

Got 22 Jokic clearly ahead of all other peak seasons.

[Dutchball97]

I didn't make peaks list in a while, but I've been working on centers peaks recently. My top 10 looked this way before this season:

Kareem
Wilt
Hakeem
Duncan
Shaq
Russell
Robinson
Walton
Jokic
Moses

I think Jokic proved himself to be better than Walton and I'm very close to give him the edge vs Robinson (I actually think a lot about this comparison recently). I think Russell's peak defense is a tier ahead of Jokic's offense and his offense isn't as exploitable as Jokic's defense, so I guess 7th best center peak. That would likely put him inside top 15, at worst top 20.

Wow no Curry/Bird? I think they're comfortably top 10.

Is Steph Curry a center now?

[Asianiac_24]

Is Jokic really worse than peak Shaq?

Sure, defensively 2000 Shaq is better. But a lot of the same issues that we saw defensively with Jokic, those issues will be for Shaq as well if he played today. Offensively I think they are easily comparable, with Jokic having the edge actually.

[70sFan]

I didn't make peaks list in a while, but I've been working on centers peaks recently. My top 10 looked this way before this season:

Kareem
Wilt
Hakeem
Duncan
Shaq
Russell
Robinson
Walton
Jokic
Moses

I think Jokic proved himself to be better than Walton and I'm very close to give him the edge vs Robinson (I actually think a lot about this comparison recently). I think Russell's peak defense is a tier ahead of Jokic's offense and his offense isn't as exploitable as Jokic's defense, so I guess 7th best center peak. That would likely put him inside top 15, at worst top 20.

Wow no Curry/Bird? I think they're comfortably top 10.

I listed centers only. I am not sure I would have either of them in top 10 in terms of peaks by the way.

[70sFan]

Is Jokic really worse than peak Shaq?

Sure, defensively 2000 Shaq is better. But a lot of the same issues that we saw defensively with Jokic, those issues will be for Shaq as well if he played today. Offensively I think they are easily comparable, with Jokic having the edge actually.

I think you should rank them based on how they did in their own era. People often make era adjustments toward modern rules/styles, but it's a trap, because they don't adjust for differences that could drop modern players impact as well.

[Peregrine01]

I don't think Jokic can ever be as impactful as prime Shaq was and that's largely because of the way the game has changed. Offensively, I think he's better than Shaq. But Shaq looked a lot better on defense in his day because teams just didn't attack him in spread pick and roll.

[falcolombardi]

I don't think Jokic can ever be as impactful as prime Shaq was and that's largely because of the way the game has changed. Offensively, I think he's better than Shaq. But Shaq looked a lot better on defense in his day because teams just didn't attack him in spread pick and roll.

did shaq really look -a lot- better defensively? other than 2000, lakers defenses with prime shaq were often mediocre in spite of solid defensive personnel

[Peregrine01]

I don't think Jokic can ever be as impactful as prime Shaq was and that's largely because of the way the game has changed. Offensively, I think he's better than Shaq. But Shaq looked a lot better on defense in his day because teams just didn't attack him in spread pick and roll.

did shaq really look -a lot- better defensively? other than 2000, lakers defenses with prime shaq were often mediocre in spite of solid defensive personnel

Shaq routinely loafed through regular seasons, which is why he only won one MVP. In the playoffs, he was more tuned in on defense. But the dumb way that teams used to play on offense certainly helped hide his weaknesses on that end.

[70sFan]

I don't think Jokic can ever be as impactful as prime Shaq was and that's largely because of the way the game has changed. Offensively, I think he's better than Shaq. But Shaq looked a lot better on defense in his day because teams just didn't attack him in spread pick and roll.

did shaq really look -a lot- better defensively? other than 2000, lakers defenses with prime shaq were often mediocre in spite of solid defensive personnel

Shaq routinely loafed through regular seasons, which is why he only won one MVP. In the playoffs, he was more tuned in on defense. But the dumb way that teams used to play on offense certainly helped hide his weaknesses on that end.

That's actually not true. Shaq was targeted on P&Rs in a lot of series. Of course not to the degree he would be now, but when you watch 1997&1998 Jazz series, 2000 Blazers, 2000 Pacers, 2002 Kings etc. Shaq was forced to defend P&Rs and he didn't do well against them.

[Peregrine01]

did shaq really look -a lot- better defensively? other than 2000, lakers defenses with prime shaq were often mediocre in spite of solid defensive personnel

Shaq routinely loafed through regular seasons, which is why he only won one MVP. In the playoffs, he was more tuned in on defense. But the dumb way that teams used to play on offense certainly helped hide his weaknesses on that end.

That's actually not true. Shaq was targeted on P&Rs in a lot of series. Of course not to the degree he would be now, but when you watch 1997&1998 Jazz series, 2000 Blazers, 2000 Pacers, 2002 Kings etc. Shaq was forced to defend P&Rs and he didn't do well against them.

I'm not saying he wasn't targeted. Just that the offenses then did not exploit him to the extent that they would now. Malone popping open for a mid-range jumper is just not the same as Curry getting free for an open 3.

[Lou Fan]

I didn't make peaks list in a while, but I've been working on centers peaks recently. My top 10 looked this way before this season:

Kareem
Wilt
Hakeem
Duncan
Shaq
Russell
Robinson
Walton
Jokic
Moses

I think Jokic proved himself to be better than Walton and I'm very close to give him the edge vs Robinson (I actually think a lot about this comparison recently). I think Russell's peak defense is a tier ahead of Jokic's offense and his offense isn't as exploitable as Jokic's defense, so I guess 7th best center peak. That would likely put him inside top 15, at worst top 20.

Wow no Curry/Bird? I think they're comfortably top 10.

I listed centers only. I am not sure I would have either of them in top 10 in terms of peaks by the way.

My bad I should have realized. I thought the poll was for overall.