Post-Mortem: 2021-22 New Orleans Pelicans

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4 Questions

Poll ended at Sun May 1, 2022 2:01 am

Q1: Keep the GM
54
20%
Q1: Fire the GM
11
4%
Q2: Keep the coach
64
24%
Q2: Fire the coach
3
1%
Q3: Performed better than expected
60
22%
Q3: Performed as expected
7
3%
Q3: Performed worse than expected
1
0%
Q4: Rising Team
68
25%
Q4: Treadmill Team
0
No votes
Q4: Waning Team
1
0%
 
Total votes: 269

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Re: Post-Mortem: 2021-22 New Orleans Pelicans 

Post#21 » by God Squad » Fri Apr 29, 2022 5:32 am

BuddyBuckets wrote:Keep rolling with what you've built. I'm unsure what the future holds between Zion and the Pels but I am sure we can outscore teams most nights even if we're not the best defensive team. At least we have 2 reasonable stoppers, and Nance is pretty smart defensively.

I see the same potential fit issues as others have mentioned. But if Zion's healthy and wants to stay.... Well, you keep him, right?

You gotta keep rolling. TBH no one knows what the Pelicans ceiling is because of Zion. They could very well be a healthy Zion away from the Second round.
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Re: Post-Mortem: 2021-22 New Orleans Pelicans 

Post#22 » by lebron stopper » Fri Apr 29, 2022 5:41 am

God Squad wrote:So The Devonte Graham career so far is wild
1. Starter in Charlotte
2. Starter in New Orleans
3. getting quality minutes off the bench

4. Can't even get minutes on a playoff team. Losing minutes by the game to Alverado.


Devonte Graham's fall-off is so ridiculously steep. Two seasons ago he was a up-and-coming guy for the Hornets who just emerged out of nowhere after Kemba left. Speedy small guard who could shoot *deep* threes off the dribble and had some fantastic passing chops, but was a terrible finisher. Now he's just some guy who will give you 10 points once every 4 or 5 games. He's very fortunate to have secured that contract last offseason.
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Re: Post-Mortem: 2021-22 New Orleans Pelicans 

Post#23 » by BuddyBuckets » Fri Apr 29, 2022 5:50 am

lebron stopper wrote:
God Squad wrote:So The Devonte Graham career so far is wild
1. Starter in Charlotte
2. Starter in New Orleans
3. getting quality minutes off the bench

4. Can't even get minutes on a playoff team. Losing minutes by the game to Alverado.


Devonte Graham's fall-off is so ridiculously steep. Two seasons ago he was a up-and-coming guy for the Hornets who just emerged out of nowhere after Kemba left. Speedy small guard who could shoot *deep* threes off the dribble and had some fantastic passing chops, but was a terrible finisher. Now he's just some guy who will give you 10 points once every 4 or 5 games. He's very fortunate to have secured that contract last offseason.


Yea I feel for Graham, maybe hes just happy he made his bag and the fire is gone? Not sure. I think he's best to be dealt and maybe a new system will get him looks he likes better or more free reign to jack up shots.

Either way most Pels fans agree he doesn;t have a spot in the rotation moving forward.
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Re: Post-Mortem: 2021-22 New Orleans Pelicans 

Post#24 » by God Squad » Fri Apr 29, 2022 5:53 am

lebron stopper wrote:
God Squad wrote:So The Devonte Graham career so far is wild
1. Starter in Charlotte
2. Starter in New Orleans
3. getting quality minutes off the bench

4. Can't even get minutes on a playoff team. Losing minutes by the game to Alverado.


Devonte Graham's fall-off is so ridiculously steep. Two seasons ago he was a up-and-coming guy for the Hornets who just emerged out of nowhere after Kemba left. Speedy small guard who could shoot *deep* threes off the dribble and had some fantastic passing chops, but was a terrible finisher. Now he's just some guy who will give you 10 points once every 4 or 5 games. He's very fortunate to have secured that contract last offseason.

It's actually something I'm surprised more people aren't talking about. He looks like he's hanging on to the NBA by a thread, and that was the trajectory I thought he would have taken. A solid scorer of the bench, sure. But I don't even think he's that at the moment.
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Re: Post-Mortem: 2021-22 New Orleans Pelicans 

Post#25 » by God Squad » Fri Apr 29, 2022 5:54 am

BuddyBuckets wrote:
lebron stopper wrote:
God Squad wrote:So The Devonte Graham career so far is wild
1. Starter in Charlotte
2. Starter in New Orleans
3. getting quality minutes off the bench

4. Can't even get minutes on a playoff team. Losing minutes by the game to Alverado.


Devonte Graham's fall-off is so ridiculously steep. Two seasons ago he was a up-and-coming guy for the Hornets who just emerged out of nowhere after Kemba left. Speedy small guard who could shoot *deep* threes off the dribble and had some fantastic passing chops, but was a terrible finisher. Now he's just some guy who will give you 10 points once every 4 or 5 games. He's very fortunate to have secured that contract last offseason.


Yea I feel for Graham, maybe hes just happy he made his bag and the fire is gone? Not sure. I think he's best to be dealt and maybe a new system will get him looks he likes better or more free reign to jack up shots.

Either way most Pels fans agree he doesn;t have a spot in the rotation moving forward.

He's been awful, but I'm not sure how much value or even if he's valued in the league with his production/contract.
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Re: Post-Mortem: 2021-22 New Orleans Pelicans 

Post#26 » by BuddyBuckets » Fri Apr 29, 2022 5:56 am

God Squad wrote:
BuddyBuckets wrote:
lebron stopper wrote:
Devonte Graham's fall-off is so ridiculously steep. Two seasons ago he was a up-and-coming guy for the Hornets who just emerged out of nowhere after Kemba left. Speedy small guard who could shoot *deep* threes off the dribble and had some fantastic passing chops, but was a terrible finisher. Now he's just some guy who will give you 10 points once every 4 or 5 games. He's very fortunate to have secured that contract last offseason.


Yea I feel for Graham, maybe hes just happy he made his bag and the fire is gone? Not sure. I think he's best to be dealt and maybe a new system will get him looks he likes better or more free reign to jack up shots.

Either way most Pels fans agree he doesn;t have a spot in the rotation moving forward.

He's been awful, but I'm not sure how much value or even if he's valued in the league with his production/contract.


Yea my feeling is unless Griff/Trajan are REALLY into someone at #8 (assuming the Pels dont move into the top 4) then #8 and Devonte (plus Kira/Temple or Hayes depending on salaries) to bring in the right vet to balance the roster.
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Re: Post-Mortem: 2021-22 New Orleans Pelicans 

Post#27 » by NO-KG-AI » Fri Apr 29, 2022 6:59 am

Amazing season ending for team and fan morale. The entire group is super engaged, and getting the Laker pick is icing on the cake.

I don’t understand the resentment of CJ. He’s the first guard we have that is lethal in the halfcourt in a long while. He’ll absolutely thrive as a third scorer and shooter when Zion returns, unless he decides to chuck and try to force himself higher up the totem pole, which I can’t imagine.

Super excited going forward. :rock:
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Re: Post-Mortem: 2021-22 New Orleans Pelicans 

Post#28 » by lambchop » Fri Apr 29, 2022 7:19 am

lebron stopper wrote:
God Squad wrote:So The Devonte Graham career so far is wild
1. Starter in Charlotte
2. Starter in New Orleans
3. getting quality minutes off the bench

4. Can't even get minutes on a playoff team. Losing minutes by the game to Alverado.


Devonte Graham's fall-off is so ridiculously steep. Two seasons ago he was a up-and-coming guy for the Hornets who just emerged out of nowhere after Kemba left. Speedy small guard who could shoot *deep* threes off the dribble and had some fantastic passing chops, but was a terrible finisher. Now he's just some guy who will give you 10 points once every 4 or 5 games. He's very fortunate to have secured that contract last offseason.

I think y'all got it wrong. To me he's just another example of a player who reached his goal (getting paid) and then became complacent. Reminds me of Gary Harris who averaged 17.5ppg and then got his big contract and subsequently his scoring dropped to 12 ppg and all shooting metrics plummeted as well.
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Re: Post-Mortem: 2021-22 New Orleans Pelicans 

Post#29 » by lordjeff05 » Fri Apr 29, 2022 7:20 am

Really really proud of this squad. Huge fan of what we are building here. Couple thoughts…

Even with assumptions that Zion would play, my ceiling for this squad was a late seed and first round exit after scaring the crap out of an upper seed. Without Z they pretty much did that.

Prior to the season I harped on the need to play BI at the “2” and to find a small ball 5. I completely love what Herb and Larry bring to the squad in terms of versatility and toughness and I really think we’ve found something in terms of a clutch/playoff caliber starting 5 when Zion gets back.

I keep going back and forth on trading Jax and Graham. I don’t think you keep everybody happy with a 10 man rotation, keeping Graham means committing to an undersized guard rotation for the majority of your minutes and I think the team is better with Trey and Larry splitting the backup front court minutes. However…Graham and Jax are ideally built to slot in to fill the minutes we all know we will need when CJ, Zion or the other bigs get injured. Graham was disappointing this year but he’s completely capable of slotting in as a poor man’s CJ when CJ gets injured and I don’t know if we will get a better version in the trade market. We’ve already seen Jax come in to play starter minutes at the 4 without killing us (though I worry a little about whether coaches are gonna figure out how to guard that better next year). He can also take Larry’s minutes when he invariably gets injured or sub in for JV if he needs a blow. That kind of positional versatility can be really important for a team over an 82 game season. If we trade that depth for more talented players we risk being more susceptible to injuries.

So basically I’m saying while Graham and Jax aren’t ideal for the best version not this team, they are helpful for the most realistic version of this team where CJ, Z, BI and Nance all miss some time. I don’t know if it’s worth the gamble to trade them given that reality.

Trade/free agency wise i think that leaves us with two options assuming Zion stays. Option 1, stand pat, draft bpa and call it a day. Option 2 is trade Jax and Graham potentially with that 8th pick attached to get a bench scoring option with some size, ability to run pick and roll and shoot the rock off the catch. I think a guy like Huerter, Kennard or Fournier could be really helpful for this squad as BI insurance and that having Alvarado at PG and Trey and/or Herb at the 3 allows you to get away with playing a subpar athlete in that position.

Finally, the success of this team will ultimately hinge upon the ability of CJ, BI and Zion to run an effective half court set that keeps everyone involved. Point Zion was super fun but I don’t think it’s a sustainable offense and it didn’t keep BI engaged. I really liked the clutch time sets we were running this year with JV, BI and CJ to close games. Provided a lot of options for everyone involved and I actually think Zion could add additional wrinkles to that set going forward with Herb and Larry spacing in the corners and prepared to swing the ball around.
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Re: Post-Mortem: 2021-22 New Orleans Pelicans 

Post#30 » by lordjeff05 » Fri Apr 29, 2022 7:25 am

lambchop wrote:
lebron stopper wrote:
God Squad wrote:So The Devonte Graham career so far is wild
1. Starter in Charlotte
2. Starter in New Orleans
3. getting quality minutes off the bench

4. Can't even get minutes on a playoff team. Losing minutes by the game to Alverado.


Devonte Graham's fall-off is so ridiculously steep. Two seasons ago he was a up-and-coming guy for the Hornets who just emerged out of nowhere after Kemba left. Speedy small guard who could shoot *deep* threes off the dribble and had some fantastic passing chops, but was a terrible finisher. Now he's just some guy who will give you 10 points once every 4 or 5 games. He's very fortunate to have secured that contract last offseason.

I think y'all got it wrong. To me he's just another example of a player who reached his goal (getting paid) and then became complacent. Reminds me of Gary Harris who averaged 17.5ppg and then got his big contract and subsequently his scoring dropped to 12 ppg and all shooting metrics plummeted as well.


I think his hip and ankle injuries than people realize and that the hurt his shooting and his ability to drive to the rack.
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Re: Post-Mortem: 2021-22 New Orleans Pelicans 

Post#31 » by PlatinumState » Fri Apr 29, 2022 8:50 am

Great season for them despite Zion not playing a single game. If he comes back in shape and plays 60 games this is a top 4 team in the west
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Re: Post-Mortem: 2021-22 New Orleans Pelicans 

Post#32 » by HeartBreakKid » Fri Apr 29, 2022 9:01 am

Pelicans are going to be exciting for the first time in like...ever. If Zion is healthy they have a legit squad.
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Re: Post-Mortem: 2021-22 New Orleans Pelicans 

Post#33 » by TheLand13 » Fri Apr 29, 2022 1:58 pm

I should make something clear... this Pelicans team is scary good. For how well they played with the amount of young talent they have... wowzers.

I know it sucks that you guys lost, but Pelicans fans, the sky is the limit for this team.
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Re: Post-Mortem: 2021-22 New Orleans Pelicans 

Post#34 » by handsome salary » Fri Apr 29, 2022 2:00 pm

Really good team in some serious need of veteran leadership/experience.
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Re: Post-Mortem: 2021-22 New Orleans Pelicans 

Post#35 » by Funcrusher » Fri Apr 29, 2022 3:13 pm

Harry Garris wrote:It's definitely a successful season for them considering they didn't have Zion. This offseason is going to be interesting. I could see any outcome from them giving Zion a max extension to trading him.

As dumb as it usually is to trade a guy that talented early in his career, he is a really poor fit alongside Ingram and if the injuries continue it could submarine the franchise for a few years. I don't know what I would do if I was David Griffin.

The fit is literally not poor come on man. Zion is a pretty portable player anyway, don't know why people stick with this narrative
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Re: Post-Mortem: 2021-22 New Orleans Pelicans 

Post#36 » by PaKwAn » Fri Apr 29, 2022 3:46 pm

Definitely keep willie he was such a good hire for this team and is part of reason of this rise. Griffin i haven't really decided yet, he has his good and bad moments for this team.

Performed better than expected after starting the season without zion at all and was looking like a bottom 3 team.

This playoff experience is such a huge boost for a team like the pelicans who have a lot of young players that haven't been on this stage. Now that everyone has heard about them hopefully we get the respect especially with the calls from guys like herb and jose.

Id be looking to trade jax, devonte and temple for something useful.. if sharpe falls to 8 i would grab him, if he's gone already then I'll listen to offers for trading that pick with a useful player.
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Re: Post-Mortem: 2021-22 New Orleans Pelicans 

Post#37 » by kan_t » Fri Apr 29, 2022 4:37 pm

The roster is fully set with Zion coming back and the addition of the Lakers pick. Graham is terrible but the Pelicans really don't need to rush giving up assets to unload him. Griffin hits a Home Rum by hiring Green and they should let Green coach this team with a healthy Zion first. If things go wrong they could always make change in mid-season.
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Re: Post-Mortem: 2021-22 New Orleans Pelicans 

Post#38 » by Statlanta » Fri Apr 29, 2022 5:29 pm

Keep the GM
Keep the Coach
Under expectations(record-wise)
Rising

Run it back and find vet min defenders around CJ and Ingram
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Re: Post-Mortem: 2021-22 New Orleans Pelicans 

Post#39 » by donato » Fri Apr 29, 2022 5:41 pm

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Re: Post-Mortem: 2021-22 New Orleans Pelicans 

Post#40 » by Duke4life831 » Fri Apr 29, 2022 5:48 pm

Funcrusher wrote:
Harry Garris wrote:It's definitely a successful season for them considering they didn't have Zion. This offseason is going to be interesting. I could see any outcome from them giving Zion a max extension to trading him.

As dumb as it usually is to trade a guy that talented early in his career, he is a really poor fit alongside Ingram and if the injuries continue it could submarine the franchise for a few years. I don't know what I would do if I was David Griffin.

The fit is literally not poor come on man. Zion is a pretty portable player anyway, don't know why people stick with this narrative

Yup lets be real now, its really hard for two players to be a poor fit as long as they dont play the same position (strict 5 or strict PG). At worst they're just neutral and its the your turn my turn kind of offense. Which is a perfectly fine offense when youre doing that with 2 players. Even if both guys are horrible defensive players, you can find 3 defensive guys to put around them (especially if netter guy is a strict 5) and you can hide them pretty well. So again the whole BI/Zion not being a good fit thing has always been overblown and Ive been saying that from day 1.

Now I am one that believes you can be fine with 2 guys no matter what really, finding a 3rd guy that fits with both of them is the harder thing to do. I also think there is another thing to consider when looking at BI and Zion. The Pels focus should be getting the ball more and more in their hands.

Guess what became pretty clear the 2nd half of last year with Zion. The more they put the ball in his hands the better he got. Guess what also became pretty dang clear this year with BI. After about 15 games into the season they gave up with a normal offense and basically just handed the offense to BI. They were an above .500 team ever since then. It also was clear that even in the playoffs the offense ran better with the ball in BI's hands compared to CJ's.

So the Pels should be really focusing on building a team around the idea of those two guys being by far the two ball dominant players. Again I think you can easily have a good offense built around 2 guys being the primary guys. The issue is finding that 3rd guy that can fit in with that. Now I personally dont think CJ is that guy going forward. CJ likes to dribble and likes to create all of his shots (only 25% of his shots have been assisted on in his career). So I think him being 3rd wheel with the other two will most likely be a problem. There is enough possessions and enough shots for 2 guys to do the "your turn, my turn" thing. Cant do it with 3 guys. So I personally think either CJ accepts the 6th man role, or there is going to be some clunky offense next year (not to mention the no defense CJ brings) with most games at least 1 of the 3 guys not being able to get into rhythm.

CJ took more shots, had more touches and had the ball in his hands more than BI in these playoffs. I think it will be a massive mistake for BI to be 3rd fiddle behind Zion and CJ next year. If CJ is cool being the 6th man and primarily being out there while one of BI or Zion is sitting, then I think that can work. But if not, I think a lineup with all 3 out there at once can be pretty clunky.

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