Post-Mortem: 2021-22 Toronto Raptors

[jokeboy86]

Raptors are missing a star just don't know how they get it because I still don't understand for the life of me why Toronto is not a FA destination. Even though its in another country Toronto is never slammed by talking heads here like they slam the smaller markets. They've had a stable organization for the past decade and their brand is probably stronger than ever. I guess they may have to hope another Kawhi situation pops up or find a gem in the draft where most of their stars have usually come from(Carter, Bosh, Derozan).

[HotelVitale]

Raptors are missing a star just don't know how they get it because I still don't understand for the life of me why Toronto is not a FA destination. Even though its in another country Toronto is never slammed by talking heads here like they slam the smaller markets. They've had a stable organization for the past decade and their brand is probably stronger than ever. I guess they may have to hope another Kawhi situation pops up or find a gem in the draft where most of their stars have usually come from(Carter, Bosh, Derozan).

Pretty much no one's a star free agent destination, though. There's not that many top-30ish type guys who switch teams in FA, and those who do usually have some kind of agreement going on to team up with another star in one of the big/glamorous markets. In the last 20 years, that's about we've seen from the superstars--Lebron three times, KD twice, Kawhi, Bosh, Kyrie. All those guys had the option of choosing good solid teams in good markets that might've fit around them better, and they went with the glam+star option cuz that's how it is now.

Only partial exceptions I can think of are J Butler (aging and left PHI for MIA under weird circumstances), Nash (was very good but not great on DAL), Derozan (aging and PO woes), maybe Amare (injury-prone by then, plus went to a giant market). So that's 20 years, and 4 clear AS-level guys who left and didn't join up with other superstars in pre-arranged deals. I'm probably missing a few but point is it happens so infrequently that it's not really a team-building strategy, more like something you'll take if you can get it but can't plan around.

[nikster]

So was Mitch McGrary, Justin Anderson, Pavel Podkolzin etc.

Its funny declaring this a bad move before the draft even happens. The raps said they weren't excited about anyone in that range, so if you consider them a good drafting team that explains there willingdness to drop in the draft

A rising team will take the risk to pick a posible steal on #20 btw when the pick got traded it was #16 or similar.

13 spots for Young? what brings Young of special? and is FA maybe you pay 13 spots for 2 month rental.

Or worst, u sign him for 30/3

Well we dont make playoffs or get swept without Young so theres that, another vet on the team that by all accounts the young guys learned a lot from, and if he resigns on a good deal even better. Raps felt that was worth more than a dozen or so spots in the draft. You can say I told you so after the draft if someone materializes in that range, but again Raps weren't excited about anyone.

Will be interesting to compare vs a team like OKC that is focused on picks after a few years

[Courtside]

Didnt understand the trade for Young giving the frp, now they have to pay Young and spurs can catch something at #20 with rookie scale.

They are clear treadmill team, the unique Rising options is Barnes developing into a star, which is uncertain.

The trade for Thad was a trade down. They got the 33rd pick back in return, so they moved down 13 spots.

A genius move then

If you're stuck with a dead salary asset like Dragic, you need to get something out of it. Thad fits the Raptors archetype to a T, and sound vets are always good to have in the mix. There is no chance to drop under the cap to create space for any big FA signings, and so the team is looking at the MLE and BAE as options there.

Here's the thing... there is a very high likelihood tbey would have chased Thad with their MLE, but been forced into 3ys min for that signing. By doing the trade, you bring him in for a partial season run and can then use Bird Rights to re-sign him to say a 1+1 deal, while leaving your full MLE to use on another player.

Looking at it that way, getting Thad was smart. Whether the 20th for 33rd was absolutely necessary or not is harder to say. Even if you don't think there's much of a player value difference in this draft - and this FO deserves full trust if they do - then a late 1st is still a nice trade chip. They must have thought it worthwhile, and there's a good case to be made that we don't win Game 4 without him, so that helped make the playoffs more competitive, added a home game's worth of revenue to the team, and was by all accounts a good mentor and influence for his time here.

The move also brought us below the tax and allowed the team to benefit from tax revenues redistributed by the tax payers to those who aren't, and bought the team an extra year of spending before becoming tax repeaters with increased rates. If they think our window is 2 or 3 or 4 years from now, then that is smart advance planning.

So it's not a simple calculus of the pick for Thad. There is far more to it, especially since you can re-sign the guy to an MLE type amount without using the MLE, which you use instead elsewhere.

I would expect guys like Robert Covington, Gary Payton II, TJ Warren, Bobby Portis and Jalen Brunson to be targets.

If you don't play defense, this team doesn't want you.

[Flash4thewin]

One thing thats not mentioned is taxes. There was a great article on Tax Notes dealing with this issue. At the end of the day a smart Tax Lawyer can only do so much to help offset the tax.

[Marty_Budda]

Teams like the Raptors always tend to "overachieve". However, there is no clear path forward, i.e. finding a superstar. Good roleplayers or borderline stars are fine, until they need to get paid.

Teams have been saying this about us for a decade

Let ‘em sleep

[binjumper]

One thing thats not mentioned is taxes. There was a great article on Tax Notes dealing with this issue. At the end of the day a smart Tax Lawyer can only do so much to help offset the tax.

it's also been proven you pay as much taxes in places like Cali.

[kuclas]

Toronto needs a true center. Even a goofy center like Aaron Baynes (before he suffered that weird career ending injury) would have made a difference in the series.

Maybe they try to get Myles turner as Indiana rebuilds. He would be the perfect fit for raptors style of defense. But he’s always injured himself.

Siakam is a good second option. Barnes eventually will be a good second option as well. That first option will be hard to obtain

[SelfishPlayer]

One thing thats not mentioned is taxes. There was a great article on Tax Notes dealing with this issue. At the end of the day a smart Tax Lawyer can only do so much to help offset the tax.

it's also been proven you pay as much taxes in places like Cali.

Toronto may be a very interesting place for non American NBA free agents to sign. Why would an American want to pay so much income tax to a foreign country?

[binjumper]

One thing thats not mentioned is taxes. There was a great article on Tax Notes dealing with this issue. At the end of the day a smart Tax Lawyer can only do so much to help offset the tax.

it's also been proven you pay as much taxes in places like Cali.

Toronto may be a very interesting place for non American NBA free agents to sign. Why would an American want to pay so much income tax to a foreign country?

Does it matter who you pay tax to? Why do you buy foreign goods? It's hilarious to think you need be a proud american by paying taxes to the right country. That's like being loyal to a brand like Apple.

[gbball]

If we stay the course, remain competitive and keep developing our young guys, we can hope that a European, African or Canadian born star will consider us in free agency if US born players continue to prioritize American teams. If we can get a star within the next seven years it would align nicely with development of our young guys, Barnes, Achuiwa, Trent and OG if they all stick around. Jamal Murray is a guy who would be a perfect fit on this team.

Toronto would be a goldmine situation for any big name player who decided to come over.

In the meantime, we can continue to build through the draft and look for outside the NBA players who've taken longer to develop.

Just need some shooting and athleticism at the guard position along with a nimble rim protector/lob threat who can guard on the perimeter. There is a good amount of athletic size in the draft this year.

[SelfishPlayer]

it's also been proven you pay as much taxes in places like Cali.

Toronto may be a very interesting place for non American NBA free agents to sign. Why would an American want to pay so much income tax to a foreign country?

Does it matter who you pay tax to? Why do you buy foreign goods? It's hilarious to think you need be a proud american by paying taxes to the right country. That's like being loyal to a brand like Apple.

You think it's hilarious? I asked why would an American want to pay so much tax money to a foreign country? American free agents don't have to do it. American free agents HAVE to pay taxes in America, why would they choose to HAVE to pay a huge tax bill to a foreign country? A foreign player to both nations is unlike an American. He would have to pay into a foreign nation' s tax system either way or STAY HOME. An American can just stay home. America is home. It's not about pride.

[binjumper]

Toronto may be a very interesting place for non American NBA free agents to sign. Why would an American want to pay so much income tax to a foreign country?

Does it matter who you pay tax to? Why do you buy foreign goods? It's hilarious to think you need be a proud american by paying taxes to the right country. That's like being loyal to a brand like Apple.

You think it's hilarious? I asked why would an American want to pay so much tax money to a foreign country? American free agents don't have to do it. American free agents HAVE to pay taxes in America, why would they choose to HAVE to pay a huge tax bill to a foreign country? A foreign player to both nations is unlike an American. He would have to pay into a foreign nation' s tax system either way or STAY HOME. An American can just stay home. America is home. It's not about pride.

Thats not how NBA players get taxed. You get taxed based on where you're playing. Let's say you played in Florida you'd get their tax and not Canadian one, but for home games you get Canadian tax. You're not paying double tax.

[SelfishPlayer]

Does it matter who you pay tax to? Why do you buy foreign goods? It's hilarious to think you need be a proud american by paying taxes to the right country. That's like being loyal to a brand like Apple.

You think it's hilarious? I asked why would an American want to pay so much tax money to a foreign country? American free agents don't have to do it. American free agents HAVE to pay taxes in America, why would they choose to HAVE to pay a huge tax bill to a foreign country? A foreign player to both nations is unlike an American. He would have to pay into a foreign nation' s tax system either way or STAY HOME. An American can just stay home. America is home. It's not about pride.

Thats not how NBA players get taxed. You get taxed based on where you're playing. Let's say you played in Florida you'd get their tax and not Canadian one, but for home games you get Canadian tax. You're not paying double tax.

Yeah, so why would an American want to play home games in a foreign country?

[binjumper]

You think it's hilarious? I asked why would an American want to pay so much tax money to a foreign country? American free agents don't have to do it. American free agents HAVE to pay taxes in America, why would they choose to HAVE to pay a huge tax bill to a foreign country? A foreign player to both nations is unlike an American. He would have to pay into a foreign nation' s tax system either way or STAY HOME. An American can just stay home. America is home. It's not about pride.

Thats not how NBA players get taxed. You get taxed based on where you're playing. Let's say you played in Florida you'd get their tax and not Canadian one, but for home games you get Canadian tax. You're not paying double tax.

Yeah, so why would an American want to play home games in a foreign country?

Really don't understand what you're getting at, but you're the same guy who uses threadmill in every post, so unless you got something interesting to share. Americans do Infact play in Canada due to Toronto having a team regardless of tax situations. It happens and it's nuts the NBA allows foreign players and foreign teams in the league. How dare they! P.s your star player Embiid is not American. Yet he pays American taxes the nerve!

[Childs]

One thing thats not mentioned is taxes. There was a great article on Tax Notes dealing with this issue. At the end of the day a smart Tax Lawyer can only do so much to help offset the tax.

Watch on YouTube

[Coach Carter]

They got a lot going for them, just need a mercenary superstar to join them.

[DroseReturnChi]

Didnt understand the trade for Young giving the frp, now they have to pay Young and spurs can catch something at #20 with rookie scale.

They are clear treadmill team, the unique Rising options is Barnes developing into a star, which is uncertain.

The trade for Thad was a trade down. They got the 33rd pick back in return, so they moved down 13 spots.

thats not a trade down. you dont trade 1st for 2nds when you can buy them cash. it shows toronto hates tax.

[DroseReturnChi]

Didnt understand the trade for Young giving the frp, now they have to pay Young and spurs can catch something at #20 with rookie scale.

They are clear treadmill team, the unique Rising options is Barnes developing into a star, which is uncertain.

Scottie is 20
Precious is 22
OG is 24
Trent is 23
Banton is 22
Flynn is 23 (though I don't like him).

What's your definition of a treadmill team? They're one of the youngest teams in the league with so much room to grow.

youngest doesnt matter. they are capped out typical mediocre treadmill team. hawks had 4 freaking all stars and blew up for trae young. all their cores is pretty much peaked too their fringe stars will be declining.

[CP War Hawks]

I don't really think the Raptors will be much better than what they showed this season. In fact, next year I expect them to drop in the standings and be a play-in team. I'm much higher on the future prospects of a team like Cleveland who have multiple young, good, potential star players, than Toronto.

Toronto's ceiling to me is maybe 4th best team in the Eastern Conference. Scottie Barnes is a nice player, but by the time he potentially develops into a star, Siakim and VanVleet will be in their 30s and out of their prime. Their 5-8 seeding range will guarantees that their draft picks (starting in 2023) will be out of the lottery so the chances of landing a star player to go with Barnes drops significantly. Toronto doesn't appear to be a place where star players are looking to go so they won't be landing any uber studs in FA if any became available. So apart from the GM making a trade for a younger star player to pair with Barnes (meaning they'll have to deal Siakim and/or FVV), this teams core doesn't excite me with their future prospects.

I tend to agree about their ceiling. They have great ancillary pieces. They should go ahead and find a stretch big, but may need to move Siakam or OG to do so.

It was probably better for them to tank this season, instead of "going for it". FVV and Trent are a treadmill combo. They have flexibility and time to figure it out.