Jalen Brunson obsession

[NoDopeOnSundays]

What I don't get is why the front office tipped their hands that they were interested in him. The whole narrative last year is that they saved flexibility for the 2023 free agent class. Now all of a sudden Brunson was a prime target and they earmarked no money for it. We're completely unprepared. Why even advertise that? Is this like how Danny Ainge wanted to draft every superstar player for the Celtics after the fact? It's dumb.

There was talk of us wanting Brunson before last summer


https://nypost.com/2021/04/16/knicks-have-eye-on-jalen-brunsons-uncertain-mavericks-future/


That story is from April 2021, this front office coveted Brunson, then went out and handicapped themselves with deals that prevented them from having caproom to sign him outright the next summer. Just incompetence.

Yeah. That's pretty dumb.

The 2023 free agency class has basically dried up, there's nobody in it outside of Jokic and he just said if offered the max extension he's taking it. All of their moves were meant to be ready for 2023 and the fridge is empty

[Capn'O]

There was talk of us wanting Brunson before last summer


https://nypost.com/2021/04/16/knicks-have-eye-on-jalen-brunsons-uncertain-mavericks-future/


That story is from April 2021, this front office coveted Brunson, then went out and handicapped themselves with deals that prevented them from having caproom to sign him outright the next summer. Just incompetence.

Yeah. That's pretty dumb.

The 2023 free agency class has basically dried up, there's nobody in it outside of Jokic and he just said if offered the max extension he's taking it. All of their moves were meant to be ready for 2023 and the fridge is empty

Dang it! We're just gonna have to build through the draft. What a pity.

[Jalen Bluntson]

Yeah. That's pretty dumb.

The 2023 free agency class has basically dried up, there's nobody in it outside of Jokic and he just said if offered the max extension he's taking it. All of their moves were meant to be ready for 2023 and the fridge is empty

Dang it! We're just gonna have to build through the draft. What a pity.

You know that won't happen.

[BBALLER4FR]

Yeah. That's pretty dumb.

The 2023 free agency class has basically dried up, there's nobody in it outside of Jokic and he just said if offered the max extension he's taking it. All of their moves were meant to be ready for 2023 and the fridge is empty

Dang it! We're just gonna have to build through the draft. What a pity.

Build through the draft? We signed bums to contracts and Thibs trusts them. RJ /Mitch/IQ/Obi/Cam/Grimes/McBride/Simms...That's quality picks at each draft position. Plus Thibs likes to play until we are mathematically eliminated so our position will always be worse. I don't know how you see this going but the Knicks don't know how to build through the draft.

[HerSports85]

this was funny

Read on Twitter

[-YogiBiz-]

this was funny

Read on Twitter

Damn when’s the last time we had a PG that could do that to someone like Gobert.

[bearadonisdna]

Kind of yes on Brunson .
He is probably better than Lonzo .
Can’t keep passing on all the good talent in FA.

[Adelheid]

that footwork...jesus

[El Poochio]

Who would have thought getting Brunson as a free agent would look like a much better option than trading for Donovan Mitchell

[prophet_of_rage]

The problem with out evaluations is that we think you either hit a grand slam or you don't swing at pitches. You can gradually increase talent and have better pieces to trade for better pieces.

Sometimes you have to go through mediocre to get to spectacular. To the OP Brunson does not get us to the promised land. Nobody does by themselves. Bit if he fills our point guard problem that is another hole patched for a while as we build towards the promised land.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

[NoDopeOnSundays]

this was funny

Read on Twitter

He gets to that spot on the floor and he's basically automatic.


Also, how is it that the other God Shammgod isn't part of our developmental coaching staff, it's not a coincidence that Luka and Jalen have all these moves since he works with them.

[egelband]

Interesting info on Shammgod. That lead me to his Wiki page. He has had an interesting career.

[Chanel Bomber]

At this point the Knicks will have to overpay to sell Brunson on the idea of joining the Knicks, and trade significant value to Dallas to have the Mavs agree to a S&T, since the Knicks don't have the capspace to sign him outright.

The odds seem stacked against us.

[Deeeez Knicks]

The problem with out evaluations is that we think you either hit a grand slam or you don't swing at pitches. You can gradually increase talent and have better pieces to trade for better pieces.

Sometimes you have to go through mediocre to get to spectacular. To the OP Brunson does not get us to the promised land. Nobody does by themselves. Bit if he fills our point guard problem that is another hole patched for a while as we build towards the promised land.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

Doubles are fine. We see it with RJ where maybe he’s not a hr and people are upset about it. Everyone wants a hr and that would be great but sometimes just got to take what is there and keep going

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

At this point the Knicks will have to overpay to sell Brunson on the idea of joining the Knicks, and trade significant value to Dallas to have the Mavs agree to a S&T, since the Knicks don't have the capspace to sign him outright.

The odds seem stacked against us.

The Knicks are in a sort of Catch-22 here in a straight up Knicks-Mavs deal. The more they (over)pay Brunson to encourage him, the more salary that Dallas would have to take back in the S&T - and the further over the luxury tax that would put them. I mean, its one thing for the Mavs to be $25m over the tax threshold on resigning Brunson, but quite another to be $25m over the threshold for the honour of having Nerlens Noel, Kemba Walker and Alec Burks on the roster.

[Chanel Bomber]

At this point the Knicks will have to overpay to sell Brunson on the idea of joining the Knicks, and trade significant value to Dallas to have the Mavs agree to a S&T, since the Knicks don't have the capspace to sign him outright.

The odds seem stacked against us.

The Knicks are in a sort of Catch-22 here in a straight up Knicks-Mavs deal. The more they (over)pay Brunson to encourage him, the more salary that Dallas would have to take back in the S&T - and the further over the luxury tax that would put them. I mean, its one thing for the Mavs to be $25m over the tax threshold on resigning Brunson, but quite another to be $25m over the threshold for the honour of having Nerlens Noel, Kemba Walker and Alec Burks on the roster.

It's an interesting angle. Thanks for sharing this.

I highly doubt the Mavs would see any of these players as actual value - rather salary fillers. The Knicks would need to send the Dallas pick, and one of their young players, in addition to salary filler in my opinion. Especially if a S&T further puts them over the luxury tax, as you mentioned. They will have to send actual value back, almost like a regular trade. Unless the Mavs actually value Randle.

[RHODEY]

Kind of yes on Brunson .
He is probably better than Lonzo .
Can’t keep passing on all the good talent in FA.

too late...the key was to get him before he balled out in the playoffs...which is why the " I need a longer stretch of games to see if he's real" strategy can fall flat. Al the indicators were there BEFORE he dropped 41 and 31 versus the Jazz.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

At this point the Knicks will have to overpay to sell Brunson on the idea of joining the Knicks, and trade significant value to Dallas to have the Mavs agree to a S&T, since the Knicks don't have the capspace to sign him outright.

The odds seem stacked against us.

The Knicks are in a sort of Catch-22 here in a straight up Knicks-Mavs deal. The more they (over)pay Brunson to encourage him, the more salary that Dallas would have to take back in the S&T - and the further over the luxury tax that would put them. I mean, its one thing for the Mavs to be $25m over the tax threshold on resigning Brunson, but quite another to be $25m over the threshold for the honour of having Nerlens Noel, Kemba Walker and Alec Burks on the roster.

It's an interesting angle. Thanks for sharing this.

I highly doubt the Mavs would see any of these players as actual value - rather salary fillers. The Knicks would need to send the Dallas pick, and one of their young players, in addition to salary filler in my opinion. Especially if a S&T further puts them over the luxury tax, as you mentioned. They will have to send actual value back, almost like a regular trade. Unless the Mavs actually value Randle.

Yeah. Randle is the mystery question. I kinda doubt Dallas value him, but arguably he can be the #2/#3 guy and be more efficient if he plays with Luka. So let's think about their playoff rotation this year: Luka, Brunson, DFS, Powell and Reggie Bullock. With Dinwiddie and Maxi Kleber playing ~30m each. Bertans is playing nothing. Josh Green plays a few minutes - but going forward they'd probably plan for him to play a bit more. Take out Brunson and sub Randle straight in. Does that make sense? I guess that's a possibility. I wouldn't love it, but it's not ridiculously stupid. Possibly Powell and Randle get in each other's way too much in the paint. But maybe just try to minimize those minutes?
[edit] I forgot (to say): they presumably get THJ back from injury next year and he would take up some guard minutes, so just in a straight Randle for Brunson swap and assuming no other moves maybe Dallas has a 8 or 8.5 man playoff rotation next year. (Again, not realistic, but just moving everything forward without changes/improvements/fallings-oo/trades etc.)

Other than that, Dallas is already $4.5m over the tax threshold assuming they pick up the player option on Kleber ($9.25m) - which I assume they will do, because how else are they going to engineer 20+m of time/playoff game? (They can turn down their $2m option on Frank, and they may do so, but it hardly saves salary - I guess they could save ~$1m with a non-first round rookie.)

Your idea of a straight trade between Dallas and the Knicks in which the Knicks would get Brunson ($30.25m) and Bertans and the Knicks would give up the Dallas FRP, a young player and filler works. It has to include Rose and would work with, eg, Rose, one of Obi and Cam and both Kemba and Noel (the math doesn't quite work with Burks instead of either of the latter two). Tbh, I don't think that is a great deal for Dallas as it is: they go a further $22m into the tax for Obi, the pick and the filler salary. However, if they can flip that filler salary as part of a deal for Gobert then things don't look so bad. So maybe that's an option.

The other speculative thought I just had (and which is a legal trade) was a trade in which the Knicks get Brunson, Dallas gets Fournier and the Dall2023FRP and Cam gets shipped off to OKC (for the sake of argument) with some amount of 2RP going to OKC to incentivize the deal and the sacremental swapping of draft rights to never-coming to the league players to consumate the deal (ensuring 'touching' all around). That seems like a reasonable deal for Dallas (if they believe in Fournier as a player). And then they try to palm Bertans off together with the Dall2023FRP in a trade for Gobert.

[thebuzzardman]

The Knicks are in a sort of Catch-22 here in a straight up Knicks-Mavs deal. The more they (over)pay Brunson to encourage him, the more salary that Dallas would have to take back in the S&T - and the further over the luxury tax that would put them. I mean, its one thing for the Mavs to be $25m over the tax threshold on resigning Brunson, but quite another to be $25m over the threshold for the honour of having Nerlens Noel, Kemba Walker and Alec Burks on the roster.

It's an interesting angle. Thanks for sharing this.

I highly doubt the Mavs would see any of these players as actual value - rather salary fillers. The Knicks would need to send the Dallas pick, and one of their young players, in addition to salary filler in my opinion. Especially if a S&T further puts them over the luxury tax, as you mentioned. They will have to send actual value back, almost like a regular trade. Unless the Mavs actually value Randle.

Yeah. Randle is the mystery question. I kinda doubt Dallas value him, but arguably he can be the #2/#3 guy and be more efficient if he plays with Luka. So let's think about their playoff rotation this year: Luka, Brunson, DFS, Powell and Reggie Bullock. With Dinwiddie and Maxi Kleber playing ~30m each. Bertans is playing nothing. Josh Green plays a few minutes - but going forward they'd probably plan for him to play a bit more. Take out Brunson and sub Randle straight in. Does that make sense? I guess that's a possibility. I wouldn't love it, but it's not ridiculously stupid. Possibly Powell and Randle get in each other's way too much in the paint. But maybe just try to minimize those minutes?
[edit] I forgot (to say): they presumably get THJ back from injury next year and he would take up some guard minutes, so just in a straight Randle for Brunson swap and assuming no other moves maybe Dallas has a 8 or 8.5 man playoff rotation next year. (Again, not realistic, but just moving everything forward without changes/improvements/fallings-oo/trades etc.)

Other than that, Dallas is already $4.5m over the tax threshold assuming they pick up the player option on Kleber ($9.25m) - which I assume they will do, because how else are they going to engineer 20+m of time/playoff game? (They can turn down their $2m option on Frank, and they may do so, but it hardly saves salary - I guess they could save ~$1m with a non-first round rookie.)

Your idea of a straight trade between Dallas and the Knicks in which the Knicks would get Brunson ($30.25m) and Bertans and the Knicks would give up the Dallas FRP, a young player and filler works. It has to include Rose and would work with, eg, Rose, one of Obi and Cam and both Kemba and Noel (the math doesn't quite work with Burks instead of either of the latter two). Tbh, I don't think that is a great deal for Dallas as it is: they go a further $22m into the tax for Obi, the pick and the filler salary. However, if they can flip that filler salary as part of a deal for Gobert then things don't look so bad. So maybe that's an option.

The other speculative thought I just had (and which is a legal trade) was a trade in which the Knicks get Brunson, Dallas gets Fournier and the Dall2023FRP and Cam gets shipped off to OKC (for the sake of argument) with some amount of 2RP going to OKC to incentivize the deal and the sacremental swapping of draft rights to never-coming to the league players to consumate the deal (ensuring 'touching' all around). That seems like a reasonable deal for Dallas (if they believe in Fournier as a player). And then they try to palm Bertans off together with the Dall2023FRP in a trade for Gobert.

I'd assume this gets super complicated with all teams being over the cap, but any way Randle goes to Utah, Gogurt to the Mavs and a S&T Brunson to the Knicks, where the Knicks still have to put in some filler, and we assume Dallas gets to dump Bertrans on the Knicks?

Though even as I typed it out, Dallas looses a scoring wing/guard type and gets in an expensive C...probably not.
Knicks put D Rose in the trade so Dallas gets a PG back, of a kind, since hard to know how many games he'll play

[thebuzzardman]

Maybe the Knicks can send big Mitch to Utah as a Gobert replacement at almost 1/3 the cost, Gobert to Mavs, Brunson to Knicks. With other parts that make the trade work, which I'd have as some combination of D Rose, since he's the only truly useful vet and a PG, which might appeal to the Mavs and Fournier, since he's the right color for Utah, but also Cuban loves the euros. Add other various Knick vet scrubs minus Noel if Mitch goes (assume Knicks keep him as depth), Kemba for salary, and maybe one of Grimes or Cam to make the Mavs or Utah give half a sh*t about a trade. And that Mavs pick goes back, obviously.