Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 5.0

[zimpy27]

Gasol comes to mind

Yep, Bogut was similar.
Jokic and Doncic showing signs of that direction now. Even DLo had a bump this season.

Playmaking IQ seems to be transferrable to team defense quarterbacking.

Maybe my memory is rusty, but wasn't Bogut literally picked first in the draft because of his defense?
I see him as a big plus minus on off positive defensively instantly, with obviously more team success with GS.

Similarly, I think the idea of Dlo being great at defense is absurd. A bump to respectable maybe, but that is exactly what we aren;t talking about.

Now Gasol, is interesting. I assume we are talking Marc? If so, I think he definitely showed really good defense early. It just was fully unexpected that he would show it early, but the early Memphis years definitely had it.

Yeah DLo is a bump to respectable, point is he's made strides later in career.

Bogut was drafted 1 as a do all C and it was a poor draft class. He could handle, pass, shoot well for a C, dunk. He was definitely better offensively than defensively initially in the NBA. His defense took a few years to develop.

[eminence]

Giannis didn't show particularly elite defensive impact to start his career and was mostly #potential for awhile there. His frontcourt mate Brolo.

Jarrett Allen has made pretty notable strides. Robert Williams, though maybe more injury issues than anything else. Al Horford his teammate developed a lot defensively in the league.

PJ Tucker got cut from the league first go around.

[HartfordWhalers]

Wasn't Tucker cut because he is an absolute offensive zero (and not his defense)?

Giannis absolutely showed defense early as well.

[eminence]

Giannis was 404th in DRAPM his rookie season.

You remembering it as him showing it is absolutely #potential. Dude was one of the worst actual high minute defenders in the NBA as a rookie. The Bucks were a +5.1 defense for gods sake.

And who the hell knows on Tucker, only played 83 minutes. Folks obviously didn't see too much defense from him.

Rookie Giannis (I'll concede probably too harsh, with 'one of the worst', but he was certainly not good, let alone elite):
24.6 mpg, 3.4 drb/g, 0.8 stl/g, 0.8 blk/g, 2.2 pf/g, -0.1 DPBM, -1.0 Def on/off, -0.65 DRAPM, -0.16 D LEBRON, +5.1 Team Def (30th)

Rookie McDaniels:
24.0 mpg, 2.9 drb/g, 0.6 stl/g, 1.0 blk/g, 2.7 pf/g, -0.2 DBPM, -0.5 Def on/off, -0.51 DRAPM, +1.00 D LEBRON, +2.7 Team Def (28th)

[Texas Chuck]

BroLo is the big you guys are looking for that became a plus defender after definitely not being one.

[Texas Chuck]

Now that is just trolling. Reported.

And you are backseat moderating by posting this itt. Obviously I'm going to let another mod evaluate your report, but you know better than to moderate itt like this.

I'm not backseat moderating anything. I am vocalizing a trolling post and stating that I will be reporting. Nothing I am doing is moderating. I see people here took exception to me being high on McDaniels. We will see in a few years how things pan out with Green, Poku and McDaniels in terms of roles in the NBA but at this point McDaniels is the closest to being a sure thing of the 3.

Okay I don't care what you want to label it. But in the future once you have reported a post, please don't tell us all you are reporting it.

Thanks


And I would think disagreeing on prospects is simply part of what this board should be about. I didn't think you were a homer or a troll for calling a player not particularly good at defense or 3-pt shooting right now the best 3&D prospect in the league. I just strongly disagree with that evaluation and the valuation made by eminence. And tried to give some context. As did moneytalks. Wish board regs would have basketball discussions where we are opposite ends and still give each other the benefits of the doubt as to the sincerity of our positions.

But I think Whalers nailed it. Something about it coming from a mod seems to really set certain posters off. Even when we clearly aren't operating as mods, but as board regs just having a basketball debate.

[NYG]

Where does the board land on Hayward/Rozier for Westbrook?

[HornetJail]

Where does the board land on Hayward/Rozier for Westbrook?

Charlotte hangs up and says don't call back unless you're offering picks 2027-29

[NYG]

Where does the board land on Hayward/Rozier for Westbrook?

Charlotte hangs up and says don't call back unless you're offering picks 2027-29

Where do Lakers fans land on that? I feel like this has to have been discussed previously.

[ejftw]

Where does the board land on Hayward/Rozier for Westbrook?

Charlotte hangs up and says don't call back unless you're offering picks 2027-29

Where do Lakers fans land on that? I feel like this has to have been discussed previously.

I think it's a house divided for the Lakers end but I don't see the FO pulling the trigger as-is since the Buss family doesn't quite have the bankroll to go into the tax

[Colbinii]

And you are backseat moderating by posting this itt. Obviously I'm going to let another mod evaluate your report, but you know better than to moderate itt like this.

I'm not backseat moderating anything. I am vocalizing a trolling post and stating that I will be reporting. Nothing I am doing is moderating. I see people here took exception to me being high on McDaniels. We will see in a few years how things pan out with Green, Poku and McDaniels in terms of roles in the NBA but at this point McDaniels is the closest to being a sure thing of the 3.

Okay I don't care what you want to label it. But in the future once you have reported a post, please don't tell us all you are reporting it.

Thanks


And I would think disagreeing on prospects is simply part of what this board should be about. I didn't think you were a homer or a troll for calling a player not particularly good at defense or 3-pt shooting right now the best 3&D prospect in the league. I just strongly disagree with that evaluation and the valuation made by eminence. And tried to give some context. As did moneytalks. Wish board regs would have basketball discussions where we are opposite ends and still give each other the benefits of the doubt as to the sincerity of our positions.

But I think Whalers nailed it. Something about it coming from a mod seems to really set certain posters off. Even when we clearly aren't operating as mods, but as board regs just having a basketball debate.

Sorry about earlier--I understand and won't repeat my previous actions.

[zimpy27]

Where does the board land on Hayward/Rozier for Westbrook?

Charlotte hangs up and says don't call back unless you're offering picks 2027-29

Where do Lakers fans land on that? I feel like this has to have been discussed previously.

- Stein suggested Hayward wouldn't be wanted in a Westbrook trade as Lakers are targeting health and reliability.
- Also Pelinka has been loathed to give out contracts beyond 2 years for non-stars. His one skill as a GM is getting creative with the numbers. Cap flexibility is key.

So Rozier and Hayward seems like it wouldn't be top of the list for Lakers. And if it's not a top return then Lakers won't sacrifice future FRPs. I mean, why would they? They could just run it back with a new coach and market a new system to fit Russ, LeBron, Davis. Although it would be bad, it probably would not be as bad as Vogels system was such a bad fit for the team they had last season.

I think the key thing to note here is Pelinka's number crunching skills. I suspect Lakers look to trade Westbrook with SRPs for close to $32m in salary coming back (3 year contracts maximum). The $32m number coming in with $47m going out actually allows the Lakers to use the $10m MLE and $4m BAE, which they will see as a good opportunity to bring in selected players.

While number one option is to trade Westbrook and FRPs for a star (however unlikely), I think the next option is to bring back $32m and it's far more realistic.

[Ell Curry]

Where does the board land on Hayward/Rozier for Westbrook?

Charlotte hangs up and says don't call back unless you're offering picks 2027-29

It depends entirely on if Lamelo has a 2023 free agent signing locked up or not, though a quick glance only really suggest Dillon Brooks makes sense and that's probably not exciting enough when they can just try to draft well at #13 and #15, let Hayward expire and move Rozier at the deadline for another late first and really build around Lonzo and Bridges (and I guess their lesser prospects and those picks).

[NYG]

Charlotte hangs up and says don't call back unless you're offering picks 2027-29

Where do Lakers fans land on that? I feel like this has to have been discussed previously.

- Stein suggested Hayward wouldn't be wanted in a Westbrook trade as Lakers are targeting health and reliability.
- Also Pelinka has been loathed to give out contracts beyond 2 years for non-stars. His one skill as a GM is getting creative with the numbers. Cap flexibility is key.

So Rozier and Hayward seems like it wouldn't be top of the list for Lakers. And if it's not a top return then Lakers won't sacrifice future FRPs. I mean, why would they? They could just run it back with a new coach and market a new system to fit Russ, LeBron, Davis. Although it would be bad, it probably would not be as bad as Vogels system was such a bad fit for the team they had last season.

I think the key thing to note here is Pelinka's number crunching skills. I suspect Lakers look to trade Westbrook with SRPs for close to $32m in salary coming back (3 year contracts maximum). The $32m number coming in with $47m going out actually allows the Lakers to use the $10m MLE and $4m BAE, which they will see as a good opportunity to bring in selected players.

While number one option is to trade Westbrook and FRPs for a star (however unlikely), I think the next option is to bring back $32m and it's far more realistic.

What could OKC get from Philly in a Tobias Harris for Favors/Kenrich deal?

What would OKC get from the Lakers in a Harris for Westbrook swap?

[NYG]

Trade 1 (pre-calendar year reset): Tobias Harris + Philly incentive to the Thunder for Derrick Favors, Ty Jerome and Kenrich Williams
Trade 2: Russell Westbrook + Lakers incentive to the Thunder for Tobias Harris
Trade 3: Talen Horton-Tucker + Lakers incentive to Philadelphia into the TPE from above Harris trade
Trade 4: Ty Jerome, Isaiah Joe + incentive from above THT trade to Orlando into cap space

--76ers could spend their full non-tax MLE and stay below the tax.
--Lakers could use their non-tax MLE and BAE while staying below the apron.

Lakers get Tobias Harris for Russell Westbrook, Talen Horton-Tucker and incentive

Thunder get Russell Westbrook and incentive via LAL and PHI for Derrick Favors, Ty Jerome and Kenrich Williams

Magic get Ty Jerome, Isaiah Joe and incentive via LAL for top 55 protected 2nd

76ers get Derrick Favors, Kenrich Williams and Talen Horton-Tucker for Tobias Harris, Isaiah Joe and incentive

What incentive needs to go where?

[zimpy27]

Where do Lakers fans land on that? I feel like this has to have been discussed previously.

- Stein suggested Hayward wouldn't be wanted in a Westbrook trade as Lakers are targeting health and reliability.
- Also Pelinka has been loathed to give out contracts beyond 2 years for non-stars. His one skill as a GM is getting creative with the numbers. Cap flexibility is key.

So Rozier and Hayward seems like it wouldn't be top of the list for Lakers. And if it's not a top return then Lakers won't sacrifice future FRPs. I mean, why would they? They could just run it back with a new coach and market a new system to fit Russ, LeBron, Davis. Although it would be bad, it probably would not be as bad as Vogels system was such a bad fit for the team they had last season.

I think the key thing to note here is Pelinka's number crunching skills. I suspect Lakers look to trade Westbrook with SRPs for close to $32m in salary coming back (3 year contracts maximum). The $32m number coming in with $47m going out actually allows the Lakers to use the $10m MLE and $4m BAE, which they will see as a good opportunity to bring in selected players.

While number one option is to trade Westbrook and FRPs for a star (however unlikely), I think the next option is to bring back $32m and it's far more realistic.

What could OKC get from Philly in a Tobias Harris for Favors/Kenrich deal?

What would OKC get from the Lakers in a Harris for Westbrook swap?

Well that would only save Lakers 10m going from Westbrook to Harris and they need to save 14,-15m ..

How about this?

Lakers get Harris, Kenrich, Muscala
Philly get Favors, THT
OKC get Westbrook, LAL27FRP, PHI25FRP(unprotect pick to OKC), PHI26swap

[Troubadour]

Do you think the Spurs are open to trading Jakob Poeltl? It didn't happen at the deadline, but it did seem to be on the table.

Raptors could use a versatile defensive big who can be a pick and roll partner. Any chance that happens?

[NYG]

Spoiler:

- Stein suggested Hayward wouldn't be wanted in a Westbrook trade as Lakers are targeting health and reliability.
- Also Pelinka has been loathed to give out contracts beyond 2 years for non-stars. His one skill as a GM is getting creative with the numbers. Cap flexibility is key.

So Rozier and Hayward seems like it wouldn't be top of the list for Lakers. And if it's not a top return then Lakers won't sacrifice future FRPs. I mean, why would they? They could just run it back with a new coach and market a new system to fit Russ, LeBron, Davis. Although it would be bad, it probably would not be as bad as Vogels system was such a bad fit for the team they had last season.

I think the key thing to note here is Pelinka's number crunching skills. I suspect Lakers look to trade Westbrook with SRPs for close to $32m in salary coming back (3 year contracts maximum). The $32m number coming in with $47m going out actually allows the Lakers to use the $10m MLE and $4m BAE, which they will see as a good opportunity to bring in selected players.

While number one option is to trade Westbrook and FRPs for a star (however unlikely), I think the next option is to bring back $32m and it's far more realistic.

What could OKC get from Philly in a Tobias Harris for Favors/Kenrich deal?

What would OKC get from the Lakers in a Harris for Westbrook swap?

Well that would only save Lakers 10m going from Westbrook to Harris and they need to save 14,-15m ..

How about this?

Lakers get Harris, Kenrich, Muscala
Philly get Favors, THT
OKC get Westbrook, LAL27FRP, PHI25FRP(unprotect pick to OKC), PHI26swap

What is the appropriate incentive to each deal?

Trade 1 (pre-calendar year reset): Tobias Harris + Philly incentive to the Thunder for Derrick Favors, Ty Jerome and Kenrich Williams
Trade 2: Russell Westbrook + Lakers incentive to the Thunder for Tobias Harris
Trade 3: Talen Horton-Tucker + Lakers incentive to Philadelphia into the TPE from above Harris trade
Trade 4: Ty Jerome, Isaiah Joe + incentive from above THT trade to Orlando into cap space

[Dadouv47]

Doubt Lakers or Philly can find a deal with OKC for Harris or Westbrook because one FRP is far from enough (47 millions for Westbrook and two years of contract with Harris and we could need some cap flexibility in 2023-2024 if our rebuild is going well). Just doesn't make any sense for us.

[MoneyTalks41890]

OKC doesn’t have space or TPEs this summer. They wasted that opportunity. But then they have like 68m in space or something the following summer with only a couple guys to potentially resign.