’06 Dwyane Wade/Dirk Nowitzki vs ’22 Luka Doncic/Nikola Jokic

Matt15 · Post #1 » by **Matt15** » Sat Apr 30, 2022 5:48 pm

Which duo would you rather have?

No-more-rings · Post #2 » by **No-more-rings** » Sat Apr 30, 2022 6:27 pm

Luka seems a tier below Wade and Dirk, so i’ll take the Wade/Dirk duo.

Post #3 » by **tsherkin** » Sat Apr 30, 2022 6:38 pm

No-more-rings wrote:Luka seems a tier below Wade and Dirk, so i’ll take the Wade/Dirk duo.

Keep in mind this was "fades versus athletic wing defenders" Dirk, before he really got his mid-post game and learned how to exploit smaller players in the way we mostly remember from the latter, like, dozen years of his career or so.

No-more-rings · Post #4 » by **No-more-rings** » Sat Apr 30, 2022 7:22 pm

tsherkin wrote:
No-more-rings wrote:Luka seems a tier below Wade and Dirk, so i’ll take the Wade/Dirk duo.

Keep in mind this was "fades versus athletic wing defenders" Dirk, before he really got his mid-post game and learned how to exploit smaller players in the way we mostly remember from the latter, like, dozen years of his career or so.

Doesn’t matter for me. Dirk was still arguably at his peak considering other areas of his game.

Post #5 » by **tsherkin** » Sat Apr 30, 2022 7:23 pm

No-more-rings wrote:Doesn’t matter for me. Dirk was still arguably at his peak considering other areas of his game.

That's fine. With Wade, the idea of Dirk needing to exploit that mismatch on a regular basis is lessened anyway, I was just adding some context.

Obviously, we're not looking at defensive titans here. But also the idea of a Luka/Jokic PnR is horrifying.

TT8198 · Post #6 » by **TT8198** » Sat Apr 30, 2022 7:30 pm

As much as I love and respect Wade and Dirk I'm going with Luka and Jokic. A two man game between them would be devastating and I don't think Wade and Dirk is the duo to stop it personally

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rate_ · Post #7 » by **rate_** » Sat Apr 30, 2022 7:31 pm

06 Wade in this era with spacing around him? Good luck trying to contain him. His impact stats even with poor spacing that season was otherworldly.

dygaction · Post #8 » by **dygaction** » Sat Apr 30, 2022 11:31 pm

Easier to build around Jokic and Doncic. With them you are guaranteed to have more than enough spacing and playmaking. Add in some 3/D and blue-collar you are good to go.

Wade and Dirk still need to consider spacing and playmaking but may give you higher ceiling, because we know them have won championships.

sikma42 · Post #9 » by **sikma42** » Sun May 1, 2022 12:28 am

dygaction wrote:Easier to build around Jokic and Doncic. With them you are guaranteed to have more than enough spacing and playmaking. Add in some 3/D and blue-collar you are good to go.

Wade and Dirk still need to consider spacing and playmaking but may give you higher ceiling, because we know them have won championships.

Doncic bball iq is the limiting factor along with his maturity. He has come into the season overweight and has taken too many bad shots. I’d go with Wade and Dirk.

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Post #10 » by **Texas Chuck** » Sun May 1, 2022 12:50 am

Wade is one of three NBA players Dirk didn't like. And we know Wade didn't respect Dirk until they were aged past relevance. I think you'd never keep those two together and Wade would never accept Dirk's rightful primacy offensively.

Makes Luka/Jokic an easy choice for me.

falcolombardi · Post #11 » by **falcolombardi** » Sun May 1, 2022 1:11 am

rate_ wrote:06 Wade in this era with spacing around him? Good luck trying to contain him. His impact stats even with poor spacing that season was otherworldly.

this is always relative

the league as a whole has became more efficient so it is not just being more efficient in a league with more spacing, that is kind of a given, but increasing his efficienct and Production more than the league gas

current league is around 2% more efficient with less minutes played (although somewhat higher pace) so in relative terms wade may not improve by as much as people think even if he probably still does

dygaction · Post #12 » by **dygaction** » Sun May 1, 2022 1:59 am

sikma42 wrote:
dygaction wrote:Easier to build around Jokic and Doncic. With them you are guaranteed to have more than enough spacing and playmaking. Add in some 3/D and blue-collar you are good to go.

Wade and Dirk still need to consider spacing and playmaking but may give you higher ceiling, because we know them have won championships.

Doncic bball iq is the limiting factor along with his maturity. He has come into the season overweight and has taken too many bad shots. I’d go with Wade and Dirk.

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Maturity aside, his bbiq has to be among the highest group in the history. How many players had 3 first team all nba after ROY while in rookie contract with this kind of athleticism.

rate_ · Post #13 » by **rate_** » Sun May 1, 2022 2:02 am

falcolombardi wrote:this is always relative

the league as a whole has became more efficient so it is not just being more efficient in a league with more spacing, that is kind of a given, but increasing his efficienct and Production more than the league gas

current league is around 2% more efficient with less minutes played (although somewhat higher pace) so in relative terms wade may not improve by as much as people think even if he probably still does

Even KD said on JJ Redick podcast that his shot quality and efficiency got much better with spacing around him as opposed to when he first got into the league. Prime Wade has never had the luxury of great spacing.

falcolombardi · Post #14 » by **falcolombardi** » Sun May 1, 2022 2:21 am

rate_ wrote:
falcolombardi wrote:this is always relative

the league as a whole has became more efficient so it is not just being more efficient in a league with more spacing, that is kind of a given, but increasing his efficienct and Production more than the league gas

current league is around 2% more efficient with less minutes played (although somewhat higher pace) so in relative terms wade may not improve by as much as people think even if he probably still does

Even KD said on JJ Redick podcast that his shot quality and efficiency got much better with spacing around him as opposed to when he first got into the league. Prime Wade has never had the luxury of great spacing.

of course, the whole league has got more efficient

hence my point, even if wade becomes 4-5% more efficient and scores a few points more per 100, that gain will be a bit cut by the fact the whole league is 2-3% more efficient and players play 4-5 minutes less

No-more-rings · Post #15 » by **No-more-rings** » Sun May 1, 2022 6:59 am

Texas Chuck wrote:Wade is one of three NBA players Dirk didn't like. And we know Wade didn't respect Dirk until they were aged past relevance. I think you'd never keep those two together and Wade would never accept Dirk's rightful primacy offensively.

Makes Luka/Jokic an easy choice for me.

If they teamed up at the beginning of the 2006 season what reason would they have to not like each other?

Post #16 » by **tsherkin** » Sun May 1, 2022 11:58 am

falcolombardi wrote:hence my point, even if wade becomes 4-5% more efficient and scores a few points more per 100, that gain will be a bit cut by the fact the whole league is 2-3% more efficient and players play 4-5 minutes less

But how does he gain this efficiency? It won't be from 3pt shooting. It's unlikely to come from finishing a lot more effectively at the rim or drawing at a higher rate. So perhaps increased volume of shots from 0-3 feet? I'd suggest maybe his playmaking becomes more valuable faster than worrying about an efficiency rise from a guy who can't hit 3s and isn't a strong FT shooter.

Stan · Post #17 » by **Stan** » Sun May 1, 2022 3:15 pm

Luka/Jokic is WAY too redundant for my liking, I'm pretty easily taking Dirk/Wade here.

JordansBulls · Post #18 » by **JordansBulls** » Mon May 2, 2022 3:28 am

Wade/Dirk

Jaivl · Post #19 » by **Jaivl** » Mon May 2, 2022 10:35 am

Texas Chuck wrote:Wade is one of three NBA players Dirk didn't like. And we know Wade didn't respect Dirk until they were aged past relevance. I think you'd never keep those two together and Wade would never accept Dirk's rightful primacy offensively.

Makes Luka/Jokic an easy choice for me.

Would Luka accept Jokic's rightful primacy offensively? Wouldn't bet for it. I think he has a bigger ego than Flash, if anything.

HeartBreakKid · Post #20 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Mon May 2, 2022 10:43 am

Jaivl wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:Wade is one of three NBA players Dirk didn't like. And we know Wade didn't respect Dirk until they were aged past relevance. I think you'd never keep those two together and Wade would never accept Dirk's rightful primacy offensively.

Makes Luka/Jokic an easy choice for me.

Would Luka accept Jokic's rightful primacy offensively? Wouldn't bet for it. I think he has a bigger ego than Flash, if anything.

I agree, I think there is more ego in Luka's game than Wade.

I mean Wade played with Shaq, James and Butler. I really doubt him and Dirk would have problems going to town on everyone.

Which duo?