Who is more valuable in the playoffs: Rudy Gobert or Brook Lopez

[Gooner]

Give Gobert Giannis and Jrue and ask again.

Giannoulis needs spacing.

[Jaivl]

Jarrett Allen and Mobley make it work, but somehow Giannis and Gobert could not.

[AussieBuck]

Give Gobert Giannis and Jrue and ask again.

Giannoulis needs spacing.

Here I was thinking you'd embarrassed yourself off the forums with your Giannis takes.

[AussieBuck]

Jarrett Allen and Mobley make it work, but somehow Giannis and Gobert could not.

Who cares if it gums up the scoring a little, think about what it does to the opposition! Go small and play Rudy off and you're stuck with Giannis tea-bagging your little frontcourt.

[WestGOAT]

I don't agree, Gobert by himself can make you relevant on defensive end

Regular season I think he's proven that, but I don't think that's true for the playoffs (@ minute 7:42):

Watch on YouTube

;t=460s

Jazz has not been relevant at all on defence. And if you are implying he needs more help cause the Jazz team is awful defensively, well then he can't do it by himself like you mentioned right?

[WestGOAT]

Also shout out to Brook Lopez... I can't recall any big-men that has managed to do a complete make-over of his game in recent memory. The guy went to a +20 ppg efficient volume post-up player that was criticized to being soft due to lack of rebounders, to one of the better defensive big man that can shoot the 3 at a very decent rate

[70sFan]

I don't agree, Gobert by himself can make you relevant on defensive end

Regular season I think he's proven that, but I don't think that's true for the playoffs (@ minute 7:42):

Watch on YouTube

;t=460s

Jazz has not been relevant at all on defence. And if you are implying he needs more help cause the Jazz team is awful defensively, well then he can't do it by himself like you mentioned right?

How many offensive players can make horrible teams good on offense alone in the playoffs?

Yes, Gobert can't do it all by himself in the playoffs. Nobody can, which is why poor teams can't compete in postseason. It doesn't mean that there is a problem with Rudy though, or that he's overpaid.

Not so long ago, we have heard that Giannis isn't built for playoffs and he had much more help than Gobert even back in the 2019.

[SickMother]

Brook @ 14 million >>> Rudy @ 38 million

maybe, but using salary in a player comparision feels wrong when deteemining who is better

Sure, salary is irrelevant in determining who is better, but it is a major factor in determining who is more valuable, which was the question in OP.

If I'm putting together a team with playoff aspirations and my two choices at center are Brook @ 14 or Rudy @ 38, I'm taking Lopez all day.

Gobert is superior defensively, but Brook is still solid defensively, much more versatile on offense & gives you 24 million to spend on other player(s).

[MartinToVaught]

It's Lopez and it's not even close. Rudy hogs way too much of the salary cap to get schemed out of playoff series as easily as he does. And no, it's not the Utah perimeter defenders' fault that Gobert has zero skills on offense to punish opposing teams for going small.

[70sFan]

It's Lopez and it's not even close. Rudy hogs way too much of the salary cap to get schemed out of playoff series as easily as he does. And no, it's not the Utah perimeter defenders' fault that Gobert has zero skills on offense to punish opposing teams for going small.

I haven't seen Gobert being schemed out of playoffs this year...

Of course, Gobert is extremely overpaid. Only absolute best players in the league like John Wall, Tobias Harris, Bradley Beal, Klay Thompson, Paul George, Russell Westbrook, Anthony Davis or Damian Lillard can get more money than him. At least all of them are legit superstars who gives their team chances to compete for titles, right?

There are a lot of players that are paid more than Gobert in this league. Most of them are not better than him.

[HeartBreakKid]

It's Lopez and it's not even close. Rudy hogs way too much of the salary cap to get schemed out of playoff series as easily as he does. And no, it's not the Utah perimeter defenders' fault that Gobert has zero skills on offense to punish opposing teams for going small.

It's certainly their fault that they can't play perimeter defense.

[MartinToVaught]

It's Lopez and it's not even close. Rudy hogs way too much of the salary cap to get schemed out of playoff series as easily as he does. And no, it's not the Utah perimeter defenders' fault that Gobert has zero skills on offense to punish opposing teams for going small.

I haven't seen Gobert being schemed out of playoffs this year...

Of course, Gobert is extremely overpaid. Only absolute best players in the league like John Wall, Tobias Harris, Bradley Beal, Klay Thompson, Paul George, Russell Westbrook, Anthony Davis or Damian Lillard can get more money than him. At least all of them are legit superstars who gives their team chances to compete for titles, right?

There are a lot of players that are paid more than Gobert in this league. Most of them are not better than him.

No GM in their right mind would take Gobert on a max contract over PG, Klay, Dame, or AD. He is way too limited on offense to justify that salary.

Wall, Tobias and Russ are universally recognized as bad contracts and Beal is an awful contract waiting to happen. That doesn't make Rudy's contract any less toxic.

[MartinToVaught]

It's Lopez and it's not even close. Rudy hogs way too much of the salary cap to get schemed out of playoff series as easily as he does. And no, it's not the Utah perimeter defenders' fault that Gobert has zero skills on offense to punish opposing teams for going small.

It's certainly their fault that they can't play perimeter defense.

I agree, and I'm not saying it's not a huge problem. It's just not the sole catch-all explanation for Gobert's playoff woes when he has critical flaws in his own game that opponents can exploit, and when he hogs way too much of the salary cap for the Jazz to build a team that's better at hiding said flaws.

[70sFan]

It's Lopez and it's not even close. Rudy hogs way too much of the salary cap to get schemed out of playoff series as easily as he does. And no, it's not the Utah perimeter defenders' fault that Gobert has zero skills on offense to punish opposing teams for going small.

I haven't seen Gobert being schemed out of playoffs this year...

Of course, Gobert is extremely overpaid. Only absolute best players in the league like John Wall, Tobias Harris, Bradley Beal, Klay Thompson, Paul George, Russell Westbrook, Anthony Davis or Damian Lillard can get more money than him. At least all of them are legit superstars who gives their team chances to compete for titles, right?

There are a lot of players that are paid more than Gobert in this league. Most of them are not better than him.

No GM in their right mind would take Gobert on a max contract over PG, Klay, Dame, or AD. He is way too limited on offense to justify that salary.

Wall, Tobias and Russ are universally recognized as bad contracts and Beal is an awful contract waiting to happen. That doesn't make Rudy's contract any less toxic.

I'd definitely take Gobert over PG and AD given their situation and their health concerns. Klay was never as good as Gobert has been in the last few years, so I find it quite ridiculous to say "no GM in their right mind" would take Gobert over him.

As many people, you view basketball through extremely limited approach. Gobert's defensive value is absolutely immense, he turns poor defensive team into top 10 defense in the league for last few years by himself. When they fail, because they are poorly structured, you only see his offensive limitations. Let's talk about George's limitations, as his team didn't even make the playoffs. Dame didn't win a thing in his career, despite playing with talent.

Why only play this game with Gobert? His weaknesses are easier to spot when you watch games without going deep with the tape, but it doesn't mean they are the most concerning.

[KembaWalker]

not really a fair comparison, because the Brook Lopez option comes with either an MVP caliber player or 2 solid all stars bundled with it in this comparison by default, otherwise he wouldn't be in the playoffs and its a moot point. comparing role players to stars is silly. its like saying youd rather have GP2 than Trae Young

[SeniorWalker]

I love Brook, he's probably my favorite player in the league right now. This is Gobert though, Brook wouldn't do any better in Rudy's place and role.

Gobert is a better help defender for sure but keep in mind that he gives you very little in terms of scoring. Lopez at least provides floor spacing and easy paint scoring. I don't think this is a crazy argument either tbh, although Gobert on the whole is a better defender.

And considering salary, I'd probably go with Brook. Rudy is just way overpaid for what he brings. He is valuable but not 40M a year valuable.

I don't agree, Gobert by himself can make you relevant on defensive end. That's something very few players can do on either end. It's not the fault of his or his contract that Jazz can't build a proper team around him.

I mean, observing Gobert from this recent series shows that he alone can't keep their defense afloat when the games start to matter. And he didn't, their scheme was accounted for and exploited over and over. That's not a fault of gobert, no single player can do that and in today's game its very difficult to stay in from of perimeter scorers.

What in your mind is building a proper team around Gobert? What does that team look like where he is the centerpiece, the focal point on a successful roster? Taking into account salary and etc, since he's making the salary of a franchise player.

Honest question here. I think he can be an important piece on a title contending team given the right pieces, but part of the problem for me is that he's being treated as a centerpiece that you can just slot guys around, so feel free to paint a hypothetical for me.

[70sFan]

Gobert is a better help defender for sure but keep in mind that he gives you very little in terms of scoring. Lopez at least provides floor spacing and easy paint scoring. I don't think this is a crazy argument either tbh, although Gobert on the whole is a better defender.

And considering salary, I'd probably go with Brook. Rudy is just way overpaid for what he brings. He is valuable but not 40M a year valuable.

I don't agree, Gobert by himself can make you relevant on defensive end. That's something very few players can do on either end. It's not the fault of his or his contract that Jazz can't build a proper team around him.

I mean, observing Gobert from this recent series shows that he alone can't keep their defense afloat when the games start to matter. And he didn't, their scheme was accounted for and exploited over and over. That's not a fault of gobert, no single player can do that and in today's game its very difficult to stay in from of perimeter scorers.

What in your mind is building a proper team around Gobert? What does that team look like where he is the centerpiece, the focal point on a successful roster? Taking into account salary and etc, since he's making the salary of a franchise player.

Honest question here. I think he can be an important piece on a title contending team given the right pieces, but part of the problem for me is that he's being treated as a centerpiece that you can just slot guys around, so feel free to paint a hypothetical for me.

I mean, imagine him on a team like Chicago in place of Vuc. He'd be by far the best player on this team and I don't think it's very hard to build such roster from salary standpoint. Ideally, you'd prefer a playmaking guard over Derozan, so you can choose someone in his place, though healthy Lonzo wouldn't be bad either.

This team could give Bucks a lot more problems than they actually did, especially if you swap Demar for a guard and you'll have healthy Lonzo/Caruso tandem.

[SeniorWalker]

I don't agree, Gobert by himself can make you relevant on defensive end. That's something very few players can do on either end. It's not the fault of his or his contract that Jazz can't build a proper team around him.

I mean, observing Gobert from this recent series shows that he alone can't keep their defense afloat when the games start to matter. And he didn't, their scheme was accounted for and exploited over and over. That's not a fault of gobert, no single player can do that and in today's game its very difficult to stay in from of perimeter scorers.

What in your mind is building a proper team around Gobert? What does that team look like where he is the centerpiece, the focal point on a successful roster? Taking into account salary and etc, since he's making the salary of a franchise player.

Honest question here. I think he can be an important piece on a title contending team given the right pieces, but part of the problem for me is that he's being treated as a centerpiece that you can just slot guys around, so feel free to paint a hypothetical for me.

I mean, imagine him on a team like Chicago in place of Vuc. He'd be by far the best player on this team and I don't think it's very hard to build such roster from salary standpoint. Ideally, you'd prefer a playmaking guard over Derozan, so you can choose someone in his place, though healthy Lonzo wouldn't be bad either.

This team could give Bucks a lot more problems than they actually did, especially if you swap Demar for a guard and you'll have healthy Lonzo/Caruso tandem.

I agree that that team would be better than these Bulls but I'm not sure about actual contending. One thing I've noticed about gobert is that against the truly elite scorers in the NBA he's not really been able to affect them, particularly in the case of giannis, who he'd have to go through to clear the east. Although having pesky perimeter guys like caruso would help. Also, where are the high percentage shots going to come from without vucevic spacing?

That's not a bad roster though, they could make some noise in the east although I don't think they could actually win it.

[70sFan]

I mean, observing Gobert from this recent series shows that he alone can't keep their defense afloat when the games start to matter. And he didn't, their scheme was accounted for and exploited over and over. That's not a fault of gobert, no single player can do that and in today's game its very difficult to stay in from of perimeter scorers.

What in your mind is building a proper team around Gobert? What does that team look like where he is the centerpiece, the focal point on a successful roster? Taking into account salary and etc, since he's making the salary of a franchise player.

Honest question here. I think he can be an important piece on a title contending team given the right pieces, but part of the problem for me is that he's being treated as a centerpiece that you can just slot guys around, so feel free to paint a hypothetical for me.

I mean, imagine him on a team like Chicago in place of Vuc. He'd be by far the best player on this team and I don't think it's very hard to build such roster from salary standpoint. Ideally, you'd prefer a playmaking guard over Derozan, so you can choose someone in his place, though healthy Lonzo wouldn't be bad either.

This team could give Bucks a lot more problems than they actually did, especially if you swap Demar for a guard and you'll have healthy Lonzo/Caruso tandem.

I agree that that team would be better than these Bulls but I'm not sure about actual contending. One thing I've noticed about gobert is that against the truly elite scorers in the NBA he's not really been able to affect them, particularly in the case of giannis, who he'd have to go through to clear the east. Although having pesky perimeter guys like caruso would help. Also, where are the high percentage shots going to come from without vucevic spacing?

That's not a bad roster though, they could make some noise in the east although I don't think they could actually win it.

I think Gobert would give Giannis a lot of problems actually, especially if he has good on-ball defenders like Ball and elite free-roamer like Caruso. If you swap DeRozan for someone who is good at P&R play and could maximize Gobert on offense, I can see them doing very well.

I don't think they'd win the title either, but to win the title in this league you need a large amount of talent. Just look at the Bucks, they are absurdly talented. I won't even mention KD Warriors.

My point is that Gobert with right team around him could make your roster a contender. I don't think you'd give you guarantee title, because almost no player can do that. We've just seen Kyrie/KD led team getting swept and a lot of people consider them both to be better than Gobert (which I don't agree in Kyrie's case). Even LeBron won only 4 titles in his career, it's very hard.