Tatum VS Luka

[Texas Chuck]

Suns were 10-18 with Luka as the primary defender last night. as great as he is offensively, he still struggles big time on defense.

tbf to Luka, the Suns were lighting up everyone on Dallas.
And more importantly, they have shot over 50% in what 6 straight playoff games now? At some point we probably need to realize there is a reason the Suns had far and away the best record in the league this year.

[SelfishPlayer]

I switched my opinion to Tatum this postseason, although Luka is still probably the better individual player. Tatum IMO is a better player for building a team with, but not building a team around.

[Freighttrain]

I mean how desperately do you have to want the answer to be Tatum to try and craft a narrative that teams pay no defensive attention to Luka freaking Doncic lol....

Luka is the decoy so Boban can be employed when the time is right.

[Duke4life831]

Suns were 10-18 with Luka as the primary defender last night. as great as he is offensively, he still struggles big time on defense.

tbf to Luka, the Suns were lighting up everyone on Dallas.
And more importantly, they have shot over 50% in what 6 straight playoff games now? At some point we probably need to realize there is a reason the Suns had far and away the best record in the league this year.

Plus those stats can be pretty misleading. For example

Suns vs CJ:
-5.2% difference in FG% when guarded by CJ

Suns vs Herb:
+1.9% difference in FG% when guarded by Herb

I dont think anyone came away from the Pels vs Suns series thinking CJ was the tougher defender compared to Herb.

Individual shooting stats in a series is a pretty noisy stat, its even noiser from a single game.

[3toheadmelo]

Suns were 10-18 with Luka as the primary defender last night. as great as he is offensively, he still struggles big time on defense.

tbf to Luka, the Suns were lighting up everyone on Dallas.
And more importantly, they have shot over 50% in what 6 straight playoff games now? At some point we probably need to realize there is a reason the Suns had far and away the best record in the league this year.

yes but luka is pretty out of shape still and it's clearly limiting his defense. at some point that needs to be acknowledged too.

[iggymcfrack]

Right now it’s absolutely Tatum. He does about 90-95% to what Luka does on offense while being a MUCH better defender. Doncic might have a little higher ceiling being a year younger, but even long-term it’s close.

[3baller9]

Right now it’s absolutely Tatum. He does about 90-95% to what Luka does on offense while being a MUCH better defender. Doncic might have a little higher ceiling being a year younger, but even long-term it’s close.

If that 5-10% is the difference between Carmelo and LeBron than I agree but I'd still take LeBron.

[Bob8]

Right now it’s absolutely Tatum. He does about 90-95% to what Luka does on offense while being a MUCH better defender. Doncic might have a little higher ceiling being a year younger, but even long-term it’s close.

Tatum is doing 95% of Luka’s playmaking? Points in playoffs are not close either.


.

[Archx]

Suns were 10-18 with Luka as the primary defender last night. as great as he is offensively, he still struggles big time on defense.

tbf to Luka, the Suns were lighting up everyone on Dallas.
And more importantly, they have shot over 50% in what 6 straight playoff games now? At some point we probably need to realize there is a reason the Suns had far and away the best record in the league this year.

yes but luka is pretty out of shape still and it's clearly limiting his defense. at some point that needs to be acknowledged too.

He scored or assisted on 65 points for Mavs. Which Suns player are we going to blame for this since this is a lot more than 10/18? And on those 10 made FG's he contested 5 of them, NBA players are capable hitting shots over extended arms. If you are entire offense and work your ass off for 45 minutes you do tend to have defensive breakdowns here and there. But again, apparently those 10 FG's were a huge problem for the Mavs.

[Texas Chuck]

Suns were 10-18 with Luka as the primary defender last night. as great as he is offensively, he still struggles big time on defense.

tbf to Luka, the Suns were lighting up everyone on Dallas.
And more importantly, they have shot over 50% in what 6 straight playoff games now? At some point we probably need to realize there is a reason the Suns had far and away the best record in the league this year.

yes but luka is pretty out of shape still and it's clearly limiting his defense. at some point that needs to be acknowledged too.

it's been covered plenty that Luka isn't in ideal shape and isn't a Mikal Bridges level defender.

Not sure how many more times this needs to be acknowledged, but here is time 328.

[3toheadmelo]

tbf to Luka, the Suns were lighting up everyone on Dallas.
And more importantly, they have shot over 50% in what 6 straight playoff games now? At some point we probably need to realize there is a reason the Suns had far and away the best record in the league this year.

yes but luka is pretty out of shape still and it's clearly limiting his defense. at some point that needs to be acknowledged too.

He scored or assisted on 65 points for Mavs. Which Suns player are we going to blame for this since this is a lot more than 10/18? And on those 10 made FG's he contested 5 of them, NBA players are capable hitting shots over extended arms. If you are entire offense and work your ass off for 45 minutes you do tend to have defensive breakdowns here and there. But again, apparently those 10 FG's were a huge problem for the Mavs.

no doubt he's a great offensive player. fun to watch on that end for sure. but his defense needs a lot of work. that's all i pointed out. not blaming him soley for the loss last night. in my opinion, i think his defense will hold him back from winning big in the NBA. and im not sure you can win big with someone that has an insane usage rate too. so we'll see.

[3toheadmelo]

tbf to Luka, the Suns were lighting up everyone on Dallas.
And more importantly, they have shot over 50% in what 6 straight playoff games now? At some point we probably need to realize there is a reason the Suns had far and away the best record in the league this year.

yes but luka is pretty out of shape still and it's clearly limiting his defense. at some point that needs to be acknowledged too.

it's been covered plenty that Luka isn't in ideal shape and isn't a Mikal Bridges level defender.

Not sure how many more times this needs to be acknowledged, but here is time 328.

to be fair im not really on the GB anymore. so idk what goes on in the luka threads lol

[Archx]

yes but luka is pretty out of shape still and it's clearly limiting his defense. at some point that needs to be acknowledged too.

He scored or assisted on 65 points for Mavs. Which Suns player are we going to blame for this since this is a lot more than 10/18? And on those 10 made FG's he contested 5 of them, NBA players are capable hitting shots over extended arms. If you are entire offense and work your ass off for 45 minutes you do tend to have defensive breakdowns here and there. But again, apparently those 10 FG's were a huge problem for the Mavs.

no doubt he's a great offensive player. fun to watch on that end for sure. but his defense needs a lot of work. that's all i pointed out. not blaming him soley for the loss last night. in my opinion, i think his defense will hold him back from winning big in the NBA. and im not sure you can win big with someone that has an insane usage rate too. so we'll see.

Talking about playoffs since this is where he takes the game seriously.

Just to continue from what you're saying. Mavs have a huge problem then because even stats portray Luka as their 2nd best defender and some statistics even show him as the best Mavs defensive player. Besides his usually very high On/Off numbers, DRTG, DWS%, DFG% etc... Opponent have 102 ORTG when Luka is ON the floor and 120 when he is OFF. Opponents also shoot 8% better when Luka is OFF the floor... etc.. etc..

So by all metrics Luka is actually underrated defender, but obviously it's all eyes on him so it's easier to pick on him. But like i said, even if i agree with you Mavs are in serious troubles if people think that Luka is so bad when he's actually really not.

And something else also doesn't add up. Going back to regular season. How did Mavs have a top5 defense this year with Doncic ON the floor? It's really some kind of a paradox reality going on.

[MrGoat]

Suns were 10-18 with Luka as the primary defender last night. as great as he is offensively, he still struggles big time on defense.

tbf to Luka, the Suns were lighting up everyone on Dallas.
And more importantly, they have shot over 50% in what 6 straight playoff games now? At some point we probably need to realize there is a reason the Suns had far and away the best record in the league this year.

Plus those stats can be pretty misleading. For example

Suns vs CJ:
-5.2% difference in FG% when guarded by CJ

Suns vs Herb:
+1.9% difference in FG% when guarded by Herb

I dont think anyone came away from the Pels vs Suns series thinking CJ was the tougher defender compared to Herb.

Individual shooting stats in a series is a pretty noisy stat, its even noiser from a single game.

Yep. And 18 shots is a tiny sample size. If you think Luka doesn't play any defense watch Utah game 6 again. Phoenix was pretty much able to get whatever they wanted because the inability to stop Ayton opened everything up for them. Phoenix is just the better team

[3toheadmelo]

He scored or assisted on 65 points for Mavs. Which Suns player are we going to blame for this since this is a lot more than 10/18? And on those 10 made FG's he contested 5 of them, NBA players are capable hitting shots over extended arms. If you are entire offense and work your ass off for 45 minutes you do tend to have defensive breakdowns here and there. But again, apparently those 10 FG's were a huge problem for the Mavs.

no doubt he's a great offensive player. fun to watch on that end for sure. but his defense needs a lot of work. that's all i pointed out. not blaming him soley for the loss last night. in my opinion, i think his defense will hold him back from winning big in the NBA. and im not sure you can win big with someone that has an insane usage rate too. so we'll see.

Talking about playoffs since this is where he takes the game seriously.

Just to continue from what you're saying. Mavs have a huge problem then because even stats portray Luka as their 2nd best defender and some statistics even show him as the best Mavs defensive player. Besides his usually very high On/Off numbers, DRTG, DWS%, DFG% etc... Opponent have 102 ORTG when Luka is ON the floor and 120 when he is OFF. Opponents also shoot 8% better when Luka is OFF the floor... etc.. etc..

So by all metrics Luka is actually underrated defender, but obviously it's all eyes on him so it's easier to pick on him. But like i said, even if i agree with you Mavs are in serious troubles if people think that Luka is so bad when he's actually really not.

And something else also doesn't add up. Going back to regular season. How did Mavs have a top5 defense this year with Doncic ON the floor? It's really some kind of a paradox reality going on.

regular season does not mean much to me. we are talking about the playoffs. the clippers were able to beat the mavs because they kept attacking him switches and pick and rolls. suns are prob gonna do the same.

[Archx]

no doubt he's a great offensive player. fun to watch on that end for sure. but his defense needs a lot of work. that's all i pointed out. not blaming him soley for the loss last night. in my opinion, i think his defense will hold him back from winning big in the NBA. and im not sure you can win big with someone that has an insane usage rate too. so we'll see.

Talking about playoffs since this is where he takes the game seriously.

Just to continue from what you're saying. Mavs have a huge problem then because even stats portray Luka as their 2nd best defender and some statistics even show him as the best Mavs defensive player. Besides his usually very high On/Off numbers, DRTG, DWS%, DFG% etc... Opponent have 102 ORTG when Luka is ON the floor and 120 when he is OFF. Opponents also shoot 8% better when Luka is OFF the floor... etc.. etc..

So by all metrics Luka is actually underrated defender, but obviously it's all eyes on him so it's easier to pick on him. But like i said, even if i agree with you Mavs are in serious troubles if people think that Luka is so bad when he's actually really not.

And something else also doesn't add up. Going back to regular season. How did Mavs have a top5 defense this year with Doncic ON the floor? It's really some kind of a paradox reality going on.

regular season does not mean much to me. we are talking about the playoffs. the clippers were able to beat the mavs because they kept attacking him switches and pick and rolls. suns are prob gonna do the same.

I was talking about playoffs. And LAC didn't win because of that. In that series Mavs shot 18% worse when Luka was OFF the floor and had only 90 ORTG when he was OFF compared to 119 when he was ON the floor. His On/Off was freaking +32 lol...

A guy who plays "no defense" doesn't have that type of numbers on over 40 MPG and a 7 game example. That's just a fact. He still holds all time NBA record for game 7 (elimination game) with 77 points either scored or assisted. That's how good he was and they still lost. You can't honestly tell me that LAC scored 78 on him in return to negate his impact...

Since this is Tatum vs Luka thread. Tatum in these playoffs scores on 44% assisted points (59% TS), Luka scores on NBA low only 8% assisted points (61% TS). But that's more or less on coaching staff not being able to come up with a better offensive scheme i guess.

[3toheadmelo]

Talking about playoffs since this is where he takes the game seriously.

Just to continue from what you're saying. Mavs have a huge problem then because even stats portray Luka as their 2nd best defender and some statistics even show him as the best Mavs defensive player. Besides his usually very high On/Off numbers, DRTG, DWS%, DFG% etc... Opponent have 102 ORTG when Luka is ON the floor and 120 when he is OFF. Opponents also shoot 8% better when Luka is OFF the floor... etc.. etc..

So by all metrics Luka is actually underrated defender, but obviously it's all eyes on him so it's easier to pick on him. But like i said, even if i agree with you Mavs are in serious troubles if people think that Luka is so bad when he's actually really not.

And something else also doesn't add up. Going back to regular season. How did Mavs have a top5 defense this year with Doncic ON the floor? It's really some kind of a paradox reality going on.

regular season does not mean much to me. we are talking about the playoffs. the clippers were able to beat the mavs because they kept attacking him switches and pick and rolls. suns are prob gonna do the same.

I was talking about playoffs. And LAC didn't win because of that. In that series Mavs shot 18% worse when Luka was OFF the floor and had only 90 ORTG when he was OFF compared to 119 when he was ON the floor. His On/Off was freaking +32 lol...

A guy who plays "no defense" doesn't have that type of numbers on over 40 MPG and a 7 game example. That's just a fact. He still holds all time NBA record for game 7 (elimination game) with 77 points either scored or assisted. That's how good he was and they still lost.

Since this is Tatum vs Luka thread. Tatum in these playoffs scores on 44% assisted points (59% TS), Luka scores on NBA low only 8% assisted points (61% TS). But that's more or less on coaching staff not being able to come up with a better offensive scheme i guess.

that's actually why the clippers won. they kept attacking him on defense. they did it over and over and over. nobody is doubting how great he is on the offensive end though. so im not sure why you keep bringing that up.

luka has the ability to play defense. its when he's in better shape and gives effort. we've seen him show that ability to do so before. he's just very inconsistent on that end. i hope he starts to take defense seriously soon and getting in better shape. cheers my friend.

[Patsfan1081]

Right now it’s absolutely Tatum. He does about 90-95% to what Luka does on offense while being a MUCH better defender. Doncic might have a little higher ceiling being a year younger, but even long-term it’s close.

Tatum is doing 95% of Luka’s playmaking? Points in playoffs are not close either.


.

? Isnt Tatum averaging more assists so far in the playoffs? I wouldnt say 28 to 33 a game isnt close, especially with Tatum sharing the ball more lately.

[Floody100]

Give me the guy who has no weaknesses in his game anymore over the guy who’s a traffic cone on defence.

[GSP]

This is alot closer than some are willing to admit...........the defensive gap is ENORMOUS and i mean..........ENORMOUS...........wow Luka got hunted the **** up. Youll never ever see Jayson half that useless on defense

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