It's time to talk about Giannis and the refs

[hugepatsfan]

Seems like he gets an extremely, EXTREMELY favorable whistle on charges, but like most physically dominant superstars gets a lot of contact on drives that goes uncalled.

[lambchop]

I mean if a guy is charging at you, what do you do? You stand your ground and take a charge need be because the alternative is laying down a red carpet to the rim. Giannis fans cringe when people take charges on him because of inherent risks but how else do you charge a guy running at you like a freight train? A player shouldn’t be rewarded extra for being fast and strong. The rule book doesn’t give two **** about genetics.

Being strong isn't just genetics, anyone can go to the weight room and make progress over the course of 5 to 10 years. If the game were officiated exactly how the rulebook says it, the NBA would have way less stars, more players would average 10-15 ppg instead of 20+. From a financial standpoint all of the numbers would go down, just consider how having stars leads to jersey sales, shoe deals etc. It's not just the big and strong guys, but also the guards that constantly carry the ball, constantly use their off arm to grab the defenders arm or hold him off (there are even video tutorials on how to do that now). So, yea, the NBA has no interest in cleaning up those rules.

But, as you said, teams have no option but to try draw charges or match that physicality. Therefore, I completely agree that fans shouldn't complain about guys trying to take charges.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Are we seeing a trend of MORE offensive fouls called in the postseason?

1. Karl Anthony Towns led the league with 68 offensive fouls this season. He was called for 11 in 7 postseason games.
2. Giannis was called for 48 offensive fouls this regular season. He's been called for 13 offensive fouls already this postseason!?!?!

[danvato]

SVG was very vocal about Giannis not getting called for charges. I've seen a lot of fans complain about him being able to barrel in, elbows up, and just run over players while not getting called for a charge or even drawing a foul call.

Υeah SVG can say whatever he wants, but it's not actually illegal to barrel in and run over players.
The rule is pretty clear, for it to be illegal the defender has to stop running, plant both feet on the floor, turn his torso to the player with the ball, and take the hit. And then its a foul. But defenders generally don't do that, they kinda run sideways or backpedal because they're scared to take the hit, and then they complain.

If you're the defender and you keep moving and there is a collision, then sorry, it's a blocking foul, otherwise people would just run and throw themselves on the guy with the ball to foul him out.

Elbows and extending your arm fully for a push off it's a different story, You can extend your arm a little to protect your space and the ball but not fully, and no matter what circumstances you can never hit people in the face. I think Giannis does usually get called for those when he does it but that's much more rare, it's mostly the running into players that confuses people. Shouldn't get confused, the rule is clear.

i like how fans make up rules to explain away their homer takes.

[Pachinko_]

i like how fans make up rules to explain away their homer takes.

Why are they not calling it?
What is THE TRUTH THAT THEY ARE HIDING FROM US

[danvato]

i like how fans make up rules to explain away their homer takes.

Why are they not calling it?
What is THE TRUTH THAT THEY ARE HIDING FROM US

you wrote paragraphs worth of explanation of what the rule only to admit you have no idea what you're talking about just a few posts later.

[Pachinko_]

i like how fans make up rules to explain away their homer takes.

Why are they not calling it?
What is THE TRUTH THAT THEY ARE HIDING FROM US

you wrote paragraphs worth of explanation of what the rule only to admit you have no idea what you're talking about just a few posts later.

I did, that's how it was taught to me. And it agrees with my experience and it served me well, defenders don't get charge calls if they're moving. But, if I was wrong I was wrong and I have no problem to admit it, which I did.

But then it begs the question why are they not calling it on Giannis? What is the conspiracy theory?

[ATRAIN53]

They always allow a little more contact in the playoffs, that's what makes them more fun to watch that regular season.

Superstars get calls, esp in tight playoff games.

I'd also say that Giannas is very respectful of the refs. He does some talking but he clearly does not insult them and it shows the way they call the game.

REF Lives Matter too, those guys are human and want respect.

[danvato]

Why are they not calling it?
What is THE TRUTH THAT THEY ARE HIDING FROM US

you wrote paragraphs worth of explanation of what the rule only to admit you have no idea what you're talking about just a few posts later.

I did, that's how it was taught to me. And it agrees with my experience, people don't get charge calls if they're moving. But, if I was wrong I was wrong and I have no problem to admit it, which I did.

But then it begs the question why are they not calling it? What is the conspiracy theory?

what are you talking about? they are calling it plenty. why are they rarely calling it on Giannis is obvious.

[Pachinko_]

you wrote paragraphs worth of explanation of what the rule only to admit you have no idea what you're talking about just a few posts later.

I did, that's how it was taught to me. And it agrees with my experience, people don't get charge calls if they're moving. But, if I was wrong I was wrong and I have no problem to admit it, which I did.

But then it begs the question why are they not calling it? What is the conspiracy theory?

what are you talking about? they are calling it plenty. why are they rarely calling it on Giannis is obvious.

What is the obvious thing? The Bucks bribing refs, the NBA hates Boston, the Commissioner is secretly Greek, what?

[Lunartic]

"giannis gets hacked so it's okay if he barrels into defenders!"

What is this silly ass logic? If he gets fouled, the refs should call the foul. They shouldn't then allow him to offensively foul defenders all game long.

People said the same about Lebron and his patented offhand shove on his drives.

Giannis is far less effective offensively when he actually has to make shots around defenders and can't just smash into them with his elbows extended.

I'm a fan of letting offensive players be physical only if you're going to let defenders be equally physical.

[JayMKE]

In short; cry about it. It's the same argument people had about Shaq, how it was unfair he was able to physically dominate his opponents and that is was unskilled. Pure sour grapes. Giannis is the most physical player in the league but he gets beat up more than anybody in the league for it, there were a couple "flagrants" in game 2 that made me burst out laughing since they'd be no calls if they were against Giannis, okay lets call that both ways. If Giannis got the same whistle as Lebron or Curry for contact, he'd literally get 20 FTs a night. The truth is there are occasionally transcendent players that come along that force the league to change the way it plays and man its roster in order to counter, Shaq and Curry were like that and so too I think Giannis. There are a serious lack big men in the league right now so a natural side effect of that is that the bigs that can hang like Giannis are even more dominant when most of the guys matching up against him are so much smaller & avoidant of contact. There's only one way to counter that.

Feel like some of you guys dont even watch games and want there so be some unwatchable s***fest on a smaller court like FIBA with no contact allowed and guys just take turns between bombing 30+ footers and taking FTs.

Whats a guy to do? Get the hell out of the way or foul, they've already lost the battle. Charges are insane now, you use to actually have to have your feet set and make contact but now every time a guy flops off contact they're expecting a call to the point that it completely takes them out of their games when they stop calling it the same way in the playoffs.

What the NBA should do is try to return the game more to what it was in the past, not the infinite spamming of illegal screens & jacking up early 3s that would have gotten you benched in the past for even taking them. Legislate physicality back into the game. We don't need anymore effeminate banana boat chuckers with delicate ankles and thin wrist in league, we need more guys like strong physical athletes like Giannis that play with passion & toughness.

[Hoop Heavy]

It's an essential hypocrisy in the league.

We want a "physical" game ... and to play "power/bully ball". We want stars that don't get disqualified by the early fourth quarter. We also want a consistently officiated game that doesn't allow for some to just break the rules continually.

Still all of those are not going to coexist.



So, we have Giannis, Lebron and Embiid etc that just get to roll over people. I heard an announcer name it well earlier in the playoffs - after a stationary defender was knocked backwards ten feet. He said "I'm not okay with a "no-call" on that much contact. I'm not saying it was a block or a charge. I'm saying you have to call something."


Just be consistent! The refs say they can't call everything - but by staying silent at key times ... you encourage more of the problematic behaviour - why would I keep to the rules if you aren't going to call me on it? Contact resulting in "displacement" is someone's foul, or it is not fair to all the non-superstar players who get called for it all the time.

[Godymas]

I mean if a guy is charging at you, what do you do? You stand your ground and take a charge need be because the alternative is laying down a red carpet to the rim. Giannis fans cringe when people take charges on him because of inherent risks but how else do you charge a guy running at you like a freight train? A player shouldn’t be rewarded extra for being fast and strong. The rule book doesn’t give two **** about genetics.

lol what, this is such a stupid take

if a guy is bigger he's going to out muscle other guys on the court. Earlier this year Julius Randle complained that he wasn't getting called for certain fouls and the refs argument was "well he's built bigger so we're not going to call as many fouls on him"

https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2021/12/2/22813146/julius-randle-doesnt-get-foul-calls-because-hes-literally-built-different

Julius Randle missed most of his shots, Giannis makes more shots so suddenly the tables are flipped? Someone is bigger, that's their existence, they are skilled at the game, have the size, they are going to do things to other players on the floor and it will happen because of physics. If a smaller player made the same move the contact might be less and the player may not get pushed back as much, the ref moves on and doesn't call it. Suddenly a guy has 50 lbs more and is doing it, it's the same outcome.

You're right, the rule book doesn't give 2 **** about genetics. If a small guy wouldn't get the call then why should a big guy get the call too?

[nitric0]

He should’ve fouled out 3-4 times against Chicago. Definitely the league darling in terms of fouls

[ITYSL]

Obviously the issue is consistency. Last night was a good example of the inconsistency shown within a 30-minute window - Tatum was called for an offensive foul on Allen on a very similar play to what happened with Giannis and Grant Williams, but Giannis wasn't called for the charge.

SVG even said that the offensive foul wouldn't have been called on Tatum if Allen didn't fall to the floor. But when Grant fell to the floor, there was still no call on Giannis.

However, the real issue is that Giannis is so strong that when he lowers his shoulder, he'll move more people and knock more people down. If Grayson Allen lowered his shoulder into Grant Williams, Grant Williams probably wouldn't move much, and no one would think to call an offensive foul on Allen. If Giannis does the same, Grant might fall down, and then refs are more likely to call it a charge. The truth is that if you're going to call that on Giannis, then you should call it on Grayson too. My opinion? The consistency should lean toward not calling it. Tatum should not have been called for that offensive foul last night, and neither should Giannis.

[SirChurros]

The charge is, has been and always will be the most difficult, inconsistent call to officiate. It almost always occurs on bang-bang plays and officials aren't afforded the luxury of slow motion replays unless it's challenged or you want them to review every charge or block.

[handsome salary]

Watching Ayton pick up early fouls in the Finals because Giannis runs into him was lame.

Watch on YouTube

[50yrceltsfan]

His use of the forearm as a high armbar while holding the ball with 2 hands is my biggest complaint. That hit to Grant Williams' face last night can't be allowed and needs to be a flagrant.

[JayMKE]

Guys who flop and bait fouls are far bigger problem in the league then one of the few old school physical players who isn't afraid of contact, awarding a baited foul is a far worse crime than a no call and cancerous to the sport overall.