[Windhorst] Pascal Siakam Potentially Could Be Available For The Right Trade

[mtcan]

Pretty sure every single person including Masai would do that trade

Would you do Scottie for Shai?

No the idea is to pair them together

We don't have anything to offer OKC in that case. Sam Presti only cares about guys in their early 20s or lottery picks.

[Mak]

I would try to package OG and Trent for assets that can be traded for Shai with more picks. We have Shai and Siakam as #1 and #2 depending on match ups , Barnes and Fred then becomes 4th best player. Shai would be such a great fit here.

I love OG but he misses so many games, I’m ready to move on and get something that can help us more. OG is a luxury when you have Barnes and Siakam.

[WaltFrazier]

There is only one ball, and eventually it is going to end up in Scottie's hands for the majority of the time he is on the court. The Raps also have the benefit of having another tall PG in Banton, who can come off the bench when Scottie needs a rest.

With your Kyle/Fred comparison, Fred played more off ball, and they were both great shooters, that allowed them to each play off ball.

Scottie being the rookie this year just filled the gaps for the team. Eventually, he is going to want to drive the bus.

I think the team would want to surround Scottie with shooters, as well as hope he develops his own shot enough that he could get it off when given room. The shooters on this team seem to be FVV, GTJ and OG.

That's why, if the team feels Scottie could jump into that role immediately (the one PS thrived in this year), I could see them doing a PS for Gobert swap. However, I see Utah trying to move Mitchell first before Gobert.

Raps half court offence would be the ball in Scottie's hands just beyond the top of the key, with Gobert in the dunkers spot, waiting for lobs, and the 3 shooters on the perimeter.

Pascal played point this year out of necessity. And did great. But if Scottie truly became a real PG, which I think is a ways off still, Pascal could still be a scoring wing like he was when Kyle was here. It's not like Pascal HAS to play point. He's a great 3-4 too

Wouldn’t you say that since he has played the point, he has looked his best?

I don’t see him relinquishing that role.

What do you mean by relinquish? Refuse to give up the ball? It's a coaches decision. Yes Pascal played well as point, especially was a better passer than Fred. But it's a lot of work to play point and be a 30 point scorer. I think he'll still be great playing with a good PG whether it's Scottie or we get a new one

[JB7]

Pascal played point this year out of necessity. And did great. But if Scottie truly became a real PG, which I think is a ways off still, Pascal could still be a scoring wing like he was when Kyle was here. It's not like Pascal HAS to play point. He's a great 3-4 too

Wouldn’t you say that since he has played the point, he has looked his best?

I don’t see him relinquishing that role.

What do you mean by relinquish? Refuse to give up the ball? It's a coaches decision. Yes Pascal played well as point, especially was a better passer than Fred. But it's a lot of work to play point and be a 30 point scorer. I think he'll still be great playing with a good PG whether it's Scottie or we get a new one

In terms of 'relinquish' I meant going back to the off ball (2nd or 3rd option).

In an ideal world, it would be the coach making the decision and the player just following through with that decision. But with the money at stake, players need to be convinced that a role does not suit them, as they know certain roles will lead to better numbers and more money. Reason why Nurse force feeds players sometimes, like PS in Tampa with the last shot attempts, and then Fred with letting him try to the primary on the ball scorer. Wouldn't be surprised if Nurse knew it would fail, but because they were both core players, he needed to let them fail, on multiple occasions to get his message through.

But now that the point forward roll for PS has worked so well for him and the team, trying to convince PS of playing a secondary role will be very difficult. It's easier for PS to score the 30, when the ball is always in his hands and he can make the decision to take a shot or pass.

[John Murdoch]

LeBron as ur new Kawhi for a year?

[PhilBlackson]

LeBron as ur new Kawhi for a year?

Sure, I heard you guys want Gary Trent Jr

[Madhouse]

I would try to package OG and Trent for assets that can be traded for Shai with more picks. We have Shai and Siakam as #1 and #2 depending on match ups , Barnes and Fred then becomes 4th best player. Shai would be such a great fit here.

I love OG but he misses so many games, I’m ready to move on and get something that can help us more. OG is a luxury when you have Barnes and Siakam.

would be great but hard to see that being realistic. Beyond that shooting would still be and arguably even more a big question mark.

[WaltFrazier]

Wouldn’t you say that since he has played the point, he has looked his best?

I don’t see him relinquishing that role.

What do you mean by relinquish? Refuse to give up the ball? It's a coaches decision. Yes Pascal played well as point, especially was a better passer than Fred. But it's a lot of work to play point and be a 30 point scorer. I think he'll still be great playing with a good PG whether it's Scottie or we get a new one

In terms of 'relinquish' I meant going back to the off ball (2nd or 3rd option).

In an ideal world, it would be the coach making the decision and the player just following through with that decision. But with the money at stake, players need to be convinced that a role does not suit them, as they know certain roles will lead to better numbers and more money. Reason why Nurse force feeds players sometimes, like PS in Tampa with the last shot attempts, and then Fred with letting him try to the primary on the ball scorer. Wouldn't be surprised if Nurse knew it would fail, but because they were both core players, he needed to let them fail, on multiple occasions to get his message through.

But now that the point forward roll for PS has worked so well for him and the team, trying to convince PS of playing a secondary role will be very difficult. It's easier for PS to score the 30, when the ball is always in his hands and he can make the decision to take a shot or pass.

Lots of first option, high scorers, are not point guards

[Chandan]

LeBron as ur new Kawhi for a year?

Sure, I heard you guys want Gary Trent Jr

and nick nurse.

[Pointgod]

A package of assets or even one higher quality asset that fits the timeline with Scottie or a high level wing/guard shot creator that fits with Scottie and can open up the offense.

What are some examples? Quality or higher quality are all relative. Obviously no one wants a trade where we're giving up value, but the whole crux of the debate is figuring out what the "right" trade actually is.

For instance, I think Siakam is somewhat comparable to Sabonis and I'd definitely move him for Halliburton - even without Hield. However, I also think Sacramento's dumb for doing that in the first place.

Yup, I would have done the same. Frankly, someone like Jordan Poole would be a perfect fit on the Raptors too and they could still play a long lineup with him. I dont think Poole is available at all, but when I see there are only 10 players I'd trade Siakam for I don't get it.

Trading Siakam for a guard also doesn't preclude you from balancing the team in another trade.

Siakam had a nice season, but he is in the top 30ish range of players in the league and if you believe in the general trend of a players physical prime it's more likely he begins to decline soon than gets better. Even with the whimper the Jazz went out with, I wouldn't be surprised if Mitchell has more value than Siakam on the trade market.

I think people will be surprised by a potential package that Siakim gets moved for. I don’t see him getting moved for a top 10 player, most likely a package of players and picks that will help balance the roster. Especially if we want to hand the keys to Scottie Barnes. When the Warriors traded Montae Ellis for Bogut to let Curry develop comes to mind as a similar type of move.

[wegotthabeet]

What are some examples? Quality or higher quality are all relative. Obviously no one wants a trade where we're giving up value, but the whole crux of the debate is figuring out what the "right" trade actually is.

For instance, I think Siakam is somewhat comparable to Sabonis and I'd definitely move him for Halliburton - even without Hield. However, I also think Sacramento's dumb for doing that in the first place.

Yup, I would have done the same. Frankly, someone like Jordan Poole would be a perfect fit on the Raptors too and they could still play a long lineup with him. I dont think Poole is available at all, but when I see there are only 10 players I'd trade Siakam for I don't get it.

Trading Siakam for a guard also doesn't preclude you from balancing the team in another trade.

Siakam had a nice season, but he is in the top 30ish range of players in the league and if you believe in the general trend of a players physical prime it's more likely he begins to decline soon than gets better. Even with the whimper the Jazz went out with, I wouldn't be surprised if Mitchell has more value than Siakam on the trade market.

I think people will be surprised by a potential package that Siakim gets moved for. I don’t see him getting moved for a top 10 player, most likely a package of players and picks that will help balance the roster. Especially if we want to hand the keys to Scottie Barnes. When the Warriors traded Montae Ellis for Bogut to let Curry develop comes to mind as a similar type of move.

I wouldn’t be inclined to trade Siakam in a 4 quarters for a dollar type of deal. For me it’s got to be a really high upside move similar to the Kawhi trade. I would consider something built around Siakam for Zion for example because it’s risky, but really high upside if it works out. Then move Vanvleet and Trent for another younger high upside piece. A young core of Barnes, Zion, OG and a 4th player would raise the overall ceiling of the team. Toronto will always have to roll the dice to get to that championship level again.

[ATLTimekeeper]

What are some examples? Quality or higher quality are all relative. Obviously no one wants a trade where we're giving up value, but the whole crux of the debate is figuring out what the "right" trade actually is.

For instance, I think Siakam is somewhat comparable to Sabonis and I'd definitely move him for Halliburton - even without Hield. However, I also think Sacramento's dumb for doing that in the first place.

Yup, I would have done the same. Frankly, someone like Jordan Poole would be a perfect fit on the Raptors too and they could still play a long lineup with him. I dont think Poole is available at all, but when I see there are only 10 players I'd trade Siakam for I don't get it.

Trading Siakam for a guard also doesn't preclude you from balancing the team in another trade.

Siakam had a nice season, but he is in the top 30ish range of players in the league and if you believe in the general trend of a players physical prime it's more likely he begins to decline soon than gets better. Even with the whimper the Jazz went out with, I wouldn't be surprised if Mitchell has more value than Siakam on the trade market.

I think people will be surprised by a potential package that Siakim gets moved for. I don’t see him getting moved for a top 10 player, most likely a package of players and picks that will help balance the roster. Especially if we want to hand the keys to Scottie Barnes. When the Warriors traded Montae Ellis for Bogut to let Curry develop comes to mind as a similar type of move.

When they traded Ellis, Curry was shut down while they tanked. iirc Bogut was also out for the year at that point. Might have been to just change the tone from soft offense to defense and give rookie Klay some more touches. That was when Mark Jackson took over and was trying to turn them into a defensive oriented team.

Doesn't seem like Masai's MO at all, if you look at his history of building winners. Every name he's traded was for an upgrade in talent, from Ross to JV to DeMar. I guess we would be surprised if he traded Pascal for a downgrade, because he's never done something like that.

[JB7]

What do you mean by relinquish? Refuse to give up the ball? It's a coaches decision. Yes Pascal played well as point, especially was a better passer than Fred. But it's a lot of work to play point and be a 30 point scorer. I think he'll still be great playing with a good PG whether it's Scottie or we get a new one

In terms of 'relinquish' I meant going back to the off ball (2nd or 3rd option).

In an ideal world, it would be the coach making the decision and the player just following through with that decision. But with the money at stake, players need to be convinced that a role does not suit them, as they know certain roles will lead to better numbers and more money. Reason why Nurse force feeds players sometimes, like PS in Tampa with the last shot attempts, and then Fred with letting him try to the primary on the ball scorer. Wouldn't be surprised if Nurse knew it would fail, but because they were both core players, he needed to let them fail, on multiple occasions to get his message through.

But now that the point forward roll for PS has worked so well for him and the team, trying to convince PS of playing a secondary role will be very difficult. It's easier for PS to score the 30, when the ball is always in his hands and he can make the decision to take a shot or pass.

Lots of first option, high scorers, are not point guards

True. But it seems more often now, a lot of those high scorers, seem to be playing that point forward role. And in Pascal's case, he seems to be more of the type that needs the ball in his hands longer to be able to find those easier scoring opportunities, as he struggles to get a quality scoring looks if given the ball late in the shot clock.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

Yup, I would have done the same. Frankly, someone like Jordan Poole would be a perfect fit on the Raptors too and they could still play a long lineup with him. I dont think Poole is available at all, but when I see there are only 10 players I'd trade Siakam for I don't get it.

Trading Siakam for a guard also doesn't preclude you from balancing the team in another trade.

Siakam had a nice season, but he is in the top 30ish range of players in the league and if you believe in the general trend of a players physical prime it's more likely he begins to decline soon than gets better. Even with the whimper the Jazz went out with, I wouldn't be surprised if Mitchell has more value than Siakam on the trade market.

I think people will be surprised by a potential package that Siakim gets moved for. I don’t see him getting moved for a top 10 player, most likely a package of players and picks that will help balance the roster. Especially if we want to hand the keys to Scottie Barnes. When the Warriors traded Montae Ellis for Bogut to let Curry develop comes to mind as a similar type of move.

I wouldn’t be inclined to trade Siakam in a 4 quarters for a dollar type of deal. For me it’s got to be a really high upside move similar to the Kawhi trade. I would consider something built around Siakam for Zion for example because it’s risky, but really high upside if it works out. Then move Vanvleet and Trent for another younger high upside piece. A young core of Barnes, Zion, OG and a 4th player would raise the overall ceiling of the team. Toronto will always have to roll the dice to get to that championship level again.

that would be a very interesting move. sign and trade Zion for Siakam is definitely comparable. Siakam probably puts them into contention next year with Ingram and McCollum because he can stay on the court and is a switchblade on offense and defense and is a known quality.

Raptors probably short term regress because Zion would introduce a brand new inside presence the Raps haven't seen since... JV/Antonio Davis?

ofc Zion stays on the court is another matter but I believe Masai *WOULD* make this trade based that he is hearing good things from his agents/sources etc. otherwise its a moot point

[kj_]

Pascal played point this year out of necessity. And did great. But if Scottie truly became a real PG, which I think is a ways off still, Pascal could still be a scoring wing like he was when Kyle was here. It's not like Pascal HAS to play point. He's a great 3-4 too

Wouldn’t you say that since he has played the point, he has looked his best?

I don’t see him relinquishing that role.

What do you mean by relinquish? Refuse to give up the ball? It's a coaches decision. Yes Pascal played well as point, especially was a better passer than Fred. But it's a lot of work to play point and be a 30 point scorer. I think he'll still be great playing with a good PG whether it's Scottie or we get a new one

I think to whole debate about who should play the point is missing the mark.

The team wants to have several offensive initiators. 5 if they could. Guys that can create advantages then move the ball to the right spots. The more you have the better.

That also means the players receiving those initial pass outs have the ability to move the ball if required.

The fan debate about which of Scottie or pascal or Fred should run the point is only being had here. I suspect the FO and coaching staff see it differently. Balanced attack with the initiator changing depending on match ups. Game to game and possession to possession.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[vulture]

So Pascal is eligible for the supermax extension if he makes all-nba right?
I wonder if they make that offer to him and it would be very surprising if they didn't sign him to a more team friendly deal.

[brownbobcat]

Yup, I would have done the same. Frankly, someone like Jordan Poole would be a perfect fit on the Raptors too and they could still play a long lineup with him. I dont think Poole is available at all, but when I see there are only 10 players I'd trade Siakam for I don't get it.

Trading Siakam for a guard also doesn't preclude you from balancing the team in another trade.

Siakam had a nice season, but he is in the top 30ish range of players in the league and if you believe in the general trend of a players physical prime it's more likely he begins to decline soon than gets better. Even with the whimper the Jazz went out with, I wouldn't be surprised if Mitchell has more value than Siakam on the trade market.

I think the "no way" list is a lot shorter than you think. Even though there are 20+ players than Siakam, some of them just aren't great fits.

No (21)
Embiid, Giannis, Luka, Trae, Jokic, Tatum, Booker, Mitchell, Ja, Curry, ANT, LaMelo, Cade, Green, Mobley, SGA, Dejounte Murray, Brown, Adebayo, Poole, Ingram

Maybes or bad fits
Kawhi, George, LeBron, AD, Towns, Bridges, Jamal Murray, DeMar, Lavine, Vucevic, Butler, Middleton, Herro, CP3, Gobert, Randle, Fox, McCollum, Harden, Sabonis, Holiday, Bane, JJJ, Ayton, Collins, Barrett, Lillard, Zion

[Vampirate]

I'm assuming, without listening to the podcast, that Windy is talking about potential swaps for Rudy Gobert and just threw Pascal's name out there. Windy is generally a good reporter but he's just riffing here.

Would I move Pascal for a clear upgrade that is also younger? Absolutely. Do I expect that to be available? Not at all.

And I definitely don't expect us to trade him for young prospects and draft picks.

At this point I don't know what makes sense, other than staying the course with what we have and developing internally.

I really don't want Gobert.

Nothing against him he's a great rim protector and would solve the center problem.

The fact is though that acquiring Gobert would basically close the avenue of a Raptors bigger need. They need a half court scorer who's young and won't be able to easily be game planned out in the playoffs. Gobert's gargantuan contract prohibits any further movement basically.

You'd only go after Gobert if a center/defense was in dire need and you were not worried about half court scoring.

[gpoon]

Everyone in the league is available for the right trade. This isn't news. LOL.

Just curious what is the right trade for Giannis? if you could pull off any trade where the salaries match what would the bucks say yes to?

[refshateRaps]

Im ALL IN for trading Pascal... But we better be getting a big time scoring Guard in return

Otherwise no thanks

Mitchell for Pascal swap makes some sense in terms of team need and future growth