What is Jordan Poole's real level and what does it mean for GSW going forward?

[ardee]

He kind of exploded the last 20 games of the RS and has kept it going so far in the postseason. Over those 26 games he's at 24.7/4.1/5.6 on 65% TS. Obviously his 3 point shooting has been kind of insane: 43.5% on 9 attempts a game.

Let's say his RS level next year is maybe 40% from 3 on 6 attempts instead. He's still a 20 ppg scorer on over 60% TS, with room to improve as he is only 22.

How much does this elongate the Warriors' window given where the rest of their pieces are at career wise?

[parsnips33]

Kinda sidestepping the question, but I think the interesting thing about Poole is this is the first time Steph has played next to this type of player (combo guard who can create for himself and others off the dribble) since idk Jarret Jack?

[GSP]

He's already all star level and can be all NBA soon

[Cavsfansince84]

He's already all star level and can be all NBA soon

This is probably accurate but more so in 3-4 years when LeBron, KD, Kawhi, PG, Steph and others are no longer competing for those all league spots.

[GSP]

He's already all star level and can be all NBA soon

This is probably accurate but more so in 3-4 years when LeBron, KD, Kawhi, PG, Steph and others are no longer competing for those all league spots.

Hes a guard/backcourt player so he wouldnt be competing with most of those forwards/frontcourt players anyways. Besides Steph obviously

[Cavsfansince84]

He's already all star level and can be all NBA soon

This is probably accurate but more so in 3-4 years when LeBron, KD, Kawhi, PG, Steph and others are no longer competing for those all league spots.

Hes a guard/backcourt player so he wouldnt be competing with most of those forwards/frontcourt players anyways. Besides Steph obviously

True but lately positions have been pretty fluid in all nba teams. LeBron and PG have both made it in a guard slot recently I believe. Plus you have CP3 about done making those teams. Going to be a lot of new players making them soon.

[jalengreen]

it's a pretty big deal for their contending chances, he can create shots for himself better than klay could when he was trusted to run those "klay & friends" bench lineups. he led an individual 7-0 run IIRC in the early 4th quarter yesterday with curry off the floor. great first step makes him a serious threat as a 1 on 1 scorer.

and while his shot selection at times in his career has been subpar, i think his offensive BBIQ is developing quite nicely. lot of good reads and extra passes.

very bright future

[Doctor MJ]

How much does this elongate the Warriors' window given where the rest of their pieces are at career wise?

Well, I think it says something about the Warriors' having a capacity to propagate their skills to younger teammates the way basketball teams used to do things. Last team that felt like this was the TD-MG-TP Spurs, and they felt like an anachronism at the time.

[ardee]

How much does this elongate the Warriors' window given where the rest of their pieces are at career wise?

Well, I think it says something about the Warriors' having a capacity to propagate their skills to younger teammates the way basketball teams used to do things. Last team that felt like this was the TD-MG-TP Spurs, and they felt like an anachronism at the time.

Yup, that was the plan for the 80s Celtics as well with Bird aging more gracefully and showing Len Bias and Reggie Lewis the ropes before they took the wheel. Didn't go as planned obviously...

Can you think of other such examples?

[Doctor MJ]

How much does this elongate the Warriors' window given where the rest of their pieces are at career wise?

Well, I think it says something about the Warriors' having a capacity to propagate their skills to younger teammates the way basketball teams used to do things. Last team that felt like this was the TD-MG-TP Spurs, and they felt like an anachronism at the time.

Yup, that was the plan for the 80s Celtics as well with Bird aging more gracefully and showing Len Bias and Reggie Lewis the ropes before they took the wheel. Didn't go as planned obviously...

Can you think of other such examples?

I think the Lakers had something similar going. Even after the HIV diagnosis caused Magic's retirement, the Lakers were really quite strong and while the next generation of players deserve credit (Divac, Jones, etc), to me it felt like the culture of expertise lived on.

I think you had similar things going with the '60s-70s Celtics.

I think though that probably the basketball team with the longest history of this by far is the Harlem Globetrotters. May seem like a joke now because they can't get the big talents any more, but obviously there's still distinct basketball-related skill involved, and the deeper in the past you go, the more that was for-use-in-a-real-game skill.

I think the dominant barnstorming teams of the '30s - which included the Globetrotters - were the real originators of this, with the Original Celtics and New York Renaissance as the leaders of the day. In the case of both teams, over time they became player-run, which included, but was more than, a player-coach. the Rens in particular from what I see had shown repeat trend of former stars being effectively the village elders bossing around the current stars, and that working out remarkably well.

[DQuinn1575]

How much does this elongate the Warriors' window given where the rest of their pieces are at career wise?

Well, I think it says something about the Warriors' having a capacity to propagate their skills to younger teammates the way basketball teams used to do things. Last team that felt like this was the TD-MG-TP Spurs, and they felt like an anachronism at the time.

Yup, that was the plan for the 80s Celtics as well with Bird aging more gracefully and showing Len Bias and Reggie Lewis the ropes before they took the wheel. Didn't go as planned obviously...

Can you think of other such examples?

The older Celtics where Sam Jones, K.C. Jones, Havlicek, etc. took over for Heinsohn, Sharman, Cousy

[Cavsfansince84]

How much does this elongate the Warriors' window given where the rest of their pieces are at career wise?

Well, I think it says something about the Warriors' having a capacity to propagate their skills to younger teammates the way basketball teams used to do things. Last team that felt like this was the TD-MG-TP Spurs, and they felt like an anachronism at the time.

Yup, that was the plan for the 80s Celtics as well with Bird aging more gracefully and showing Len Bias and Reggie Lewis the ropes before they took the wheel. Didn't go as planned obviously...

Can you think of other such examples?

Celtics shifting from the Russell-Cousy-Heinsohn core to Russell-Jones-Havlicek then again to Havlicek-Cowens-White(plus with Red as coach or gm for like 30 years). Also the continuity the Lakers had from the 70's to the 80's with Sharman and West both taking turns as gm and coach. I think that counted for something and really the Lakers roster had some good players stick with them from the 70's to the 80's. The Sixers nearly had something like that too except Moses left and Toney got hurt.

[parsnips33]

Well, I think it says something about the Warriors' having a capacity to propagate their skills to younger teammates the way basketball teams used to do things. Last team that felt like this was the TD-MG-TP Spurs, and they felt like an anachronism at the time.

Yup, that was the plan for the 80s Celtics as well with Bird aging more gracefully and showing Len Bias and Reggie Lewis the ropes before they took the wheel. Didn't go as planned obviously...

Can you think of other such examples?

I think the Lakers had something similar going. Even after the HIV diagnosis caused Magic's retirement, the Lakers were really quite strong and while the next generation of players deserve credit (Divac, Jones, etc), to me it felt like the culture of expertise lived on.

I think you had similar things going with the '60s-70s Celtics.

I think though that probably the basketball team with the longest history of this by far is the Harlem Globetrotters. May seem like a joke now because they can't get the big talents any more, but obviously there's still distinct basketball-related skill involved, and the deeper in the past you go, the more that was for-use-in-a-real-game skill.

I think the dominant barnstorming teams of the '30s - which included the Globetrotters - were the real originators of this, with the Original Celtics and New York Renaissance as the leaders of the day. In the case of both teams, over time they became player-run, which included, but was more than, a player-coach. the Rens in particular from what I see had shown repeat trend of former stars being effectively the village elders bossing around the current stars, and that working out remarkably well.

Is there a good place to read more about this? I only really know about the Globetrotters in their current iteration

[Doctor MJ]

Yup, that was the plan for the 80s Celtics as well with Bird aging more gracefully and showing Len Bias and Reggie Lewis the ropes before they took the wheel. Didn't go as planned obviously...

Can you think of other such examples?

I think the Lakers had something similar going. Even after the HIV diagnosis caused Magic's retirement, the Lakers were really quite strong and while the next generation of players deserve credit (Divac, Jones, etc), to me it felt like the culture of expertise lived on.

I think you had similar things going with the '60s-70s Celtics.

I think though that probably the basketball team with the longest history of this by far is the Harlem Globetrotters. May seem like a joke now because they can't get the big talents any more, but obviously there's still distinct basketball-related skill involved, and the deeper in the past you go, the more that was for-use-in-a-real-game skill.

I think the dominant barnstorming teams of the '30s - which included the Globetrotters - were the real originators of this, with the Original Celtics and New York Renaissance as the leaders of the day. In the case of both teams, over time they became player-run, which included, but was more than, a player-coach. the Rens in particular from what I see had shown repeat trend of former stars being effectively the village elders bossing around the current stars, and that working out remarkably well.

Is there a good place to read more about this? I only really know about the Globetrotters in their current iteration

Gosh, my knowledge is mostly cobbled together from various sources I've found online, which includes a fair amount of stuff that's on Google Books but I don't have the links in one place.

I will say that the biography "Foul!" about Connie Hawkins is a book I've specifically read from cover to cover and talks about this some. Hawkins specifically talks about Sweetwater Clifton teaching him how to use giant hands (which they both had, and which Globetrotters were known for specifically at least since the time of Goose Tatum in the '40s) for passing trickery, as well as all the fact that each Globetrotter team - at their peak popularity in that era ('60s), there were several Globetrotters teams touring in different places simultaneously - was built around a lead pivot playmaker - the style pioneered by the Original Celtics in 1920s - who also served as chief clown. In that era, the pivot of the A-team, which was the one that got to go to Europe, among other places, was Meadowlark Lemon, who Hawkins learned a lot from even if the relationship was often strained.

If memory serves, there was another guy on the team whom it was lamented had the best comedic instincts but didn't have big enough hands to do some of the signature Globetrotter pivot moves that guys like Tatum/Clifton/Lemon/Hawkins could do.

[Woodsanity]

Better than I previously thought. Basically the Warriors had another all star these playoffs.

[tsherkin]

Better than I previously thought. Basically the Warriors had another all star these playoffs.

He's run hot and cold, but he's athletic, he puts rim pressure on the defense, he's moving the wall pretty well even when he isn't shooting well... and he's gone 5/10 from 3 twice already in the playoffs.

[jasonxxx102]

The Warriors turned the worst starter in the NBA (Wiggins) to an all-star. Wiggins went from low 30s to high 30s in 3PT% since joining the Warriors.

DLo had his best (partial) season as a pro when he was on the Warriors. Quinn Cook had the only 2 productive seasons of his entire career... I could go on.

Is it the Warriors system or the player?

[tsherkin]

The Warriors turned the worst starter in the NBA (Wiggins) to an all-star. Wiggins went from low 30s to high 30s in 3PT% since joining the Warriors.

DLo had his best (partial) season as a pro when he was on the Warriors. Quinn Cook had the only 2 productive seasons of his entire career... I could go on.

Is it the Warriors system or the player?

Well, Wiggins is presently enjoying the highest percentage of his 3PAs being assisted (in 2022) and in both of his GSWs, he's been enjoying his highest proportion of corner threes since he was a rookie. As a rook, Wiggins shot a corner three on 24.6% of his 3PA. After that and before Golden State, 14.9% and never higher than 18%. Since joining Golden State, 24.7% and 26.1%. As a rook, he shot 41.9% on those and in Golden State, he's averaging 43.1%. So a lot of it is just Golden State putting him in position to take shots he can actually make. He's still garbage on pull-up 3s but shooting 40% on catch-and-shoots. They've found and are leveraging his strengths. This isn't unique to Golden State, the Spurs and similar organizations would have done the same thing. They have an established star, a coherent system and they put their players in position to succeed. Remember when Richard Jefferson was suddenly a 40%-something 3pt shooter for SAS, GSW, UTA and DAL in his 30s? I mean, he was a competent 3pt shooter later on in his New Jersey career as well, but not like that. Or when Grant Hill went to Phoenix and became a semi-quality 3pt shooter?

Same same.

[falcolombardi]

it depends a lot on how real his shooting spike is

if it is a mirage and he still is an average marksman then he is a strong starting player but not a star

if it is real then he is a legit star