Peak Ginobili vs. Current Devin Booker

[SK21209]

Taking this from the Top 5 backcourts of all time thread, who do you take between peak Ginobili and 2021-2022 Devin Booker?

I personally think its Manu due to the superior playmaking and defense (some of Manu's defensive metrics are pretty awesome). That said, I think Booker is probably a better fit on his current team. I think its pretty close and Booker likely hasn't reached his peak yet.

[GeorgeMarcus]

I think I would prefer each in their respective roles. Booker is likely the better pure scorer who can really capitalize on that next to a polished floor general like CP3. Manu was more of a versatile swiss army knife who could initiate the offense, slide into a more passive off-ball role, or wear the go-to scorer hat as needed. His scoring efficiency was elite although there is the question whether he could sustain that as a bigger minute starter. I also consider Manu the better defender despite the progress Booker has made on that end.

[HeartBreakKid]

This is Manu pretty easily. He played like a 1st team all nba guy.

[Peregrine01]

I think I would prefer each in their respective roles. Booker is likely the better pure scorer who can really capitalize on that next to a polished floor general like CP3. Manu was more of a versatile swiss army knife who could initiate the offense, slide into a more passive off-ball role, or wear the go-to scorer hat as needed. His scoring efficiency was elite although there is the question whether he could sustain that as a bigger minute starter. I also consider Manu to be the better defender despite the progress Booker has made on that end.

I'm not sure there's much there to support Book being the better scorer. In 08 he put up 34 PP100 on +7% rTS. From 05-09 he was a pretty consistent 29-34 PP100 scorer on +6% to +8% rTS. Current Book is scoring 37 PP100 but he's doing so on +1% rTS. Book has Manu on volume but Manu has proved that he can up that volume in the playoffs while retaining or even upping his efficiency. In the 04-05 playoffs, he put up 34 PP100 on 65% TS, 4% higher than his regular season. Book in his only playoff run last year did 34 PP100 on 56% TS, 3% below his regular season average.

[GSP]

I think I would prefer each in their respective roles. Booker is likely the better pure scorer who can really capitalize on that next to a polished floor general like CP3. Manu was more of a versatile swiss army knife who could initiate the offense, slide into a more passive off-ball role, or wear the go-to scorer hat as needed. His scoring efficiency was elite although there is the question whether he could sustain that as a bigger minute starter. I also consider Manu to be the better defender despite the progress Booker has made on that end.

I'm not sure there's much there to support Book being the better scorer. In 08 he put up 34 PP100 on +7% rTS. From 05-09 he was a pretty consistent 29-34 PP100 scorer on +6% to +8% rTS. Current Book is scoring 37 PP100 but he's doing so on +1% rTS. Book has Manu on volume but Manu has proved that he can up that volume in the playoffs while retaining or even upping his efficiency. In the 04-05 playoffs, he put up 34 PP100 on 65% TS, 4% higher than his regular season. Book in his only playoff run last year did 34 PP100 on 56% TS, 3% below his regular season average.

The per 100 stuff is nice and all but in his 1st playoff run Booker was already at 40 minutes a game. Theres no indication Manu would be able to consistently log that kind of heavy minutes and keep the same stats to a high 20s PPG average

FWIW Im taking Manu easily either way but there is alot of value in your player being able to consistently play over 40 and maintain a consistently high level of play as opposed to presumed projections

[Doctor MJ]

Voted Ginobili. No disrespect intended for Booker, I just think very, very highly of Ginobili.

[70sFan]

Manu for me, the only reason why it's a fun debate is because of his minutes played and durability issues. He's significantly better player per minute.

[Max123]

Voted Ginobili. No disrespect intended for Booker, I just think very, very highly of Ginobili.

This is where I am at as well. Sometimes I can get even too crazy about Ginobili to the point that I have to check my sanity... His skillset is pretty close to ideal from my point of view.

[darmani]

I think I would prefer each in their respective roles. Booker is likely the better pure scorer who can really capitalize on that next to a polished floor general like CP3. Manu was more of a versatile swiss army knife who could initiate the offense, slide into a more passive off-ball role, or wear the go-to scorer hat as needed. His scoring efficiency was elite although there is the question whether he could sustain that as a bigger minute starter. I also consider Manu to be the better defender despite the progress Booker has made on that end.

I'm not sure there's much there to support Book being the better scorer. In 08 he put up 34 PP100 on +7% rTS. From 05-09 he was a pretty consistent 29-34 PP100 scorer on +6% to +8% rTS. Current Book is scoring 37 PP100 but he's doing so on +1% rTS. Book has Manu on volume but Manu has proved that he can up that volume in the playoffs while retaining or even upping his efficiency. In the 04-05 playoffs, he put up 34 PP100 on 65% TS, 4% higher than his regular season. Book in his only playoff run last year did 34 PP100 on 56% TS, 3% below his regular season average.

Before the injuries (broken nose and hamstring strain during the finals) Booker was absolutely killing it in the playoffs last year.

Games 1-11: 29.0 pts on .616 TS% in 40.3 mpg
Games 12-22: 25.6 pts, on .504 TS% in 40.5 mpg

[cupcakesnake]

As with almost every Manu comparison, you either choose to penalize him for the minutes or you don't. The same point gets brought up every time and there's nothing new to it in a comparison with Booker. We can't scale or analyze the minutes issue and come up with some satisfying answer.

I think for the Ginobili truthers (I count myself amongst them), the compromise is basically: ok I wont say he's better than the greatest guards ever (MJ, Kobe, West etc.) but I wont admit anyone less than level is better than Manu.

So what's useful or new with using Booker as a comp? Star shooting guard with normal star minutes and shot attempts vs. the mysterious legendary enigma that is Ginobili.

Manu is a much better defender, passer, playmaker, rebounder. Devin Booker plays more minutes and has almost twice the scoring volume on worse relative efficiency. (I'm just taking a quick glance at 2022 Booker and 2008 Manu). I'd trust Booker more to hit an elbow jumper of a pin down, and I probably trust his durability better, but just about anything else I'll go Manu.

[Doctor MJ]

As with almost every Manu comparison, you either choose to penalize him for the minutes or you don't.

So, this is something I've thought a lot about on many levels, but it becomes specifically tangible on the level of a single post-season.

When a team doesn't win the championship, a player who plays significantly less minutes I can't help but say "Those lack of minutes really hurt", but when they do, and if the impact the player in question gave seemed to be the critical reason for the team's victory, it's not so clear what ceiling to put on the guy.

Let's consider the '06-07 playoffs. There the championship was determined in the 2nd round in the Spurs/Suns series, and that series could be said to have been decided in the final 2 games of the series, and Ginobili was the star of those two games in particular coming up huge in the 4th quarter. Were I going to give an MVP of the series, I think Ginobili should be seen as a very strong candidate by everyone.

Now, let's generalize and look at the +/-. Common perception is that Duncan's Spurs largely had Nash's Suns number...but in reality, Duncan kinda struggled against the small ball of the Suns.

Consider that over the 4 series the teams played against each other from '05 to '10, here are the total +/- numbers of Duncan, Nash & Ginobili:

Manu Ginobili +33
Steve Nash +31
Tim Duncan -12

The idea, thus, that the classic big-men-oriented strategy was better than the pace-and-space strategy head-to-head was always based on confusion. What really happened is that the Suns had no answer for Ginobili.

Here's where I'll point out also that in every single Spurs' championship in the 21st century, Ginobili was the team's lead playoff +/- performer despite playing less minutes than Duncan. That's no small thing.

Am I saying that I consider Ginobili worthy of being ranked higher than Duncan generally? No.
Am I saying that I consider Ginobili worthy of being ranked higher than Duncan in these years? No.

But I think it's closer than people think in general, and I'll flat out say that Ginobili was the best player on the 2005 Spurs in the playoffs and it was not at all uncommon for him to be the MVP of the team in critical playoff series.

[LukaTheGOAT]

Just wanted to share.

These playoffs, Devin Booker has fewer touches per game then Jae Crowder , fewer front court touches get game then Tobias Harris , and fewer time of possession then Patrick Beverly . Yet he’s averaging 27.3 points per 75 on 62.7 TS%. Truly elite off-ball guy.