2021-22 Season Discussion and Speculation

[Crives]

Media is to hard on Luka….. if it keeps going like this we going to see Luka on the Lakers.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Watch on YouTube

Now private. What was the video?

Apologies!
I don't know why it was made private, but it was a Phoenix suns behind the scenes rehabilitation technology video clip for Sarics' recovery and the cutting edge tech they're using to measure force and impact on each leg, etc.

[AtheJ415]

Wiggins is a fake all star. Dude is left wide the hell open half the time. He would not make it if he didn't share the court with Steph.

[cberry78]

Watch on YouTube

Now private. What was the video?

Apologies!
I don't know why it was made private, but it was a Phoenix suns behind the scenes rehabilitation technology video clip for Sarics' recovery and the cutting edge tech they're using to measure force and impact on each leg, etc.

Probably went private due to the announcement today that Saric was undergoing another surgery on his knee. Granted, it is only arthroscopic knee surgery, but still.

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[TeamTragic]

Now private. What was the video?

Apologies!
I don't know why it was made private, but it was a Phoenix suns behind the scenes rehabilitation technology video clip for Sarics' recovery and the cutting edge tech they're using to measure force and impact on each leg, etc.

Probably went private due to the announcement today that Saric was undergoing another surgery on his knee. Granted, it is only arthroscopic knee surgery, but still.

Sent from my SM-N960U using RealGM mobile app

That does not sound good

[bwgood77]

Apologies!
I don't know why it was made private, but it was a Phoenix suns behind the scenes rehabilitation technology video clip for Sarics' recovery and the cutting edge tech they're using to measure force and impact on each leg, etc.

Probably went private due to the announcement today that Saric was undergoing another surgery on his knee. Granted, it is only arthroscopic knee surgery, but still.

Sent from my SM-N960U using RealGM mobile app

That does not sound good

Not sure recovery time on that but we really need to stretch him, and probably Craig, to clear $10 million in cap space.

[cberry78]

Probably went private due to the announcement today that Saric was undergoing another surgery on his knee. Granted, it is only arthroscopic knee surgery, but still.

Sent from my SM-N960U using RealGM mobile app

That does not sound good

Not sure recovery time on that but we really need to stretch him, and probably Craig, to clear $10 million in cap space.

Recovery time on arthroscopic knee surgery is usually around 6 weeks, but can be less (wasn't there a player in the last few years who came back in less than 3 weeks?) Depending on where Dario was in his rehab it is at least a possibility that he may be available to us by the Finals.

[BobbieL]

Probably went private due to the announcement today that Saric was undergoing another surgery on his knee. Granted, it is only arthroscopic knee surgery, but still.

Sent from my SM-N960U using RealGM mobile app

That does not sound good

Not sure recovery time on that but we really need to stretch him, and probably Craig, to clear $10 million in cap space.

Are you saying to stretch Saric and Craig for cap space or to save on the lux tax?

Who knows, maybe this ownership group will be fine paying the lux tax. I just don't think you make moves like Shamet and Craig without having a longer term (in this case one year) fiscal plan for salaries.

Granted, David IVPoint Play mentioned part of the reason they might have extended Shamet was to have a $10m trade asset this summer since they are over the cap. So, Saric, Craig and Shamet would obstensibly 25m of outgoing cap for a player

[bwgood77]

That does not sound good

Not sure recovery time on that but we really need to stretch him, and probably Craig, to clear $10 million in cap space.

Recovery time on arthroscopic knee surgery is usually around 6 weeks, but can be less (wasn't there a player in the last few years who came back in less than 3 weeks?) Depending on where Dario was in his rehab it is at least a possibility that he may be available to us by the Finals.

Just strange he'd wait until now. Maybe he thought he had a chance to be ready for playoffs if needed but realized there is no chance.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Probably went private due to the announcement today that Saric was undergoing another surgery on his knee. Granted, it is only arthroscopic knee surgery, but still.

Sent from my SM-N960U using RealGM mobile app

That does not sound good

Not sure recovery time on that but we really need to stretch him, and probably Craig, to clear $10 million in cap space.

This X 1,000,000!!!!!
It's the most practical common sense move we could make. But would Williams really allow it? Would Jones stretch one of Monty's favorites? We really just need to bite the bullet already and do as you mentioned. And hopefully both Shamet and Craig can build up some value somehow so we can look to offload them as well without too much cost attached??

[WeekapaugGroove]

Not sure recovery time on that but we really need to stretch him, and probably Craig, to clear $10 million in cap space.

Recovery time on arthroscopic knee surgery is usually around 6 weeks, but can be less (wasn't there a player in the last few years who came back in less than 3 weeks?) Depending on where Dario was in his rehab it is at least a possibility that he may be available to us by the Finals.

Just strange he'd wait until now. Maybe he thought he had a chance to be ready for playoffs if needed but realized there is no chance.

My guess is he was experiencing pain/swelling during rehab and had to have it cleaned up. Not great but also not super uncommon with ACLs.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

[RaisingArizona]

That does not sound good

Not sure recovery time on that but we really need to stretch him, and probably Craig, to clear $10 million in cap space.

This X 1,000,000!!!!!
It's the most practical common sense move we could make. But would Williams really allow it? Would Jones stretch one of Monty's favorites? We really just need to bite the bullet already and do as you mentioned. And hopefully both Shamet and Craig can build up some value somehow so we can look to offload them as well without too much cost attached??

Include Payne in there too, GOK

[Barkley6]

That does not sound good

Not sure recovery time on that but we really need to stretch him, and probably Craig, to clear $10 million in cap space.

This X 1,000,000!!!!!
It's the most practical common sense move we could make. But would Williams really allow it? Would Jones stretch one of Monty's favorites? We really just need to bite the bullet already and do as you mentioned. And hopefully both Shamet and Craig can build up some value somehow so we can look to offload them as well without too much cost attached??

The issue you run into is if you stretch those guys, we only have the MLE and minimum deals to replace them. Could you find a diamond in the rough for a minimum deal? Sure. But it's not a sure thing and we start drifting into the territory that teams like Brooklyn and LA are in where you've got stars and minimum guys. Which clearly doesn't work.

I think you start to run into problems when you've got your 8 man rotation and then 7 minimum guys/rookies. Because it doesn't give a ton of depth in the event of injury.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Have to dump with picks, bad optics but only way Sarver gets out of paying $80m in tax.

Stretching doesn't save anything really as you have to pay them and the replacement and over more years and since no salary actually got cut there's a clog in salary in 2 years so the luxury tax is highest when we need to replace Paul and then we can't it's like bad tetris just get rid of the bad row asap and avoid pile up errors.

[bwgood77]

Not sure recovery time on that but we really need to stretch him, and probably Craig, to clear $10 million in cap space.

This X 1,000,000!!!!!
It's the most practical common sense move we could make. But would Williams really allow it? Would Jones stretch one of Monty's favorites? We really just need to bite the bullet already and do as you mentioned. And hopefully both Shamet and Craig can build up some value somehow so we can look to offload them as well without too much cost attached??

The issue you run into is if you stretch those guys, we only have the MLE and minimum deals to replace them. Could you find a diamond in the rough for a minimum deal? Sure. But it's not a sure thing and we start drifting into the territory that teams like Brooklyn and LA are in where you've got stars and minimum guys. Which clearly doesn't work.

I think you start to run into problems when you've got your 8 man rotation and then 7 minimum guys/rookies. Because it doesn't give a ton of depth in the event of injury.

I would just stretch Saric and Craig for now, because they have only 1 year and it saves $10 million. Now if we had Bezos has our owner and the tax wasn't a problem, then I keep them. But if they try to pay Ayton $10 million less and end up trading him to save $10 million I think it's the smarter move to just stretch those guys.

Based on their play this year, I'd stretch Payne and Shamet too. But you are right, we would have only the MLE and minimums, so you have to keep someone. But I think we could get some minimum guys at the big (like Bismack), keep Wainwright, even possibly bring back Nader for the minimum or something and Kaminsky isn't really too much worse than the most recent we've seen of Saric, and with Saric coming back from injury he might be even worse.

Our backup guard play has been bad but they are young and I have to think they will get better. Payne was great last year and Shamet has shot a lot better. Payne in a contract year and Shamet with an offseason to work, maybe they come back better.

[bwgood77]

Have to dump with picks, bad optics but only way Sarver gets out of paying $80m in tax.

Stretching doesn't save anything really as you have to pay them and the replacement and over more years and since no salary actually got cut there's a clog in salary in 2 years so the luxury tax is highest when we need to replace Paul and then we can't it's like bad tetris just get rid of the bad row asap and avoid pile up errors.

You still have to pay them what you owe them stretching them but the money is wiped out for cap/tax purposes....so they do save a ton of money in tax, since they will likely be up in the $3.25 per dollar tax range with that extra $10 million.

If we dump more picks to get rid of players our problems with depth just get bigger in the future. We've already screwed up our last two first round picks. We need to hit on the next couple, or find diamond in the rough guys for minimums/UDFA's....but you have a lot better chance drafting in the late 20s or 30 to get someone cheap that could be a solid backup.

[Barkley6]

This X 1,000,000!!!!!
It's the most practical common sense move we could make. But would Williams really allow it? Would Jones stretch one of Monty's favorites? We really just need to bite the bullet already and do as you mentioned. And hopefully both Shamet and Craig can build up some value somehow so we can look to offload them as well without too much cost attached??

The issue you run into is if you stretch those guys, we only have the MLE and minimum deals to replace them. Could you find a diamond in the rough for a minimum deal? Sure. But it's not a sure thing and we start drifting into the territory that teams like Brooklyn and LA are in where you've got stars and minimum guys. Which clearly doesn't work.

I think you start to run into problems when you've got your 8 man rotation and then 7 minimum guys/rookies. Because it doesn't give a ton of depth in the event of injury.

I would just stretch Saric and Craig for now, because they have only 1 year and it saves $10 million. Now if we had Bezos has our owner and the tax wasn't a problem, then I keep them. But if they try to pay Ayton $10 million less and end up trading him to save $10 million I think it's the smarter move to just stretch those guys.

Based on their play this year, I'd stretch Payne and Shamet too. But you are right, we would have only the MLE and minimums, so you have to keep someone. But I think we could get some minimum guys at the big (like Bismack), keep Wainwright, even possibly bring back Nader for the minimum or something and Kaminsky isn't really too much worse than the most recent we've seen of Saric, and with Saric coming back from injury he might be even worse.

Our backup guard play has been bad but they are young and I have to think they will get better. Payne was great last year and Shamet has shot a lot better. Payne in a contract year and Shamet with an offseason to work, maybe they come back better.

I think Craig has more value as an expiring contract than he does purely as a guy to be stretched. I also believe he still has value to this team, even if he hasn't played up to expectations so far, 3 and D wings will always have value in this league. I just don't think you stretch someone who is a tradable asset. Same goes for Saric, who frankly we don't know what he'll look like post injury. He was never a very explosive player, so I don't know how much it will really change for him. I also think having Saric as an option behind a big like McGee or Biyombo is great to have because he's a playmaker and a shooter, which is something neither of those guys bring. It gives us a lot more versatility in terms of the lineups we can play.

Then you get into their contracts as assets, where if you combine Saric and Craig, you get around $14m, which is around the salary of guys like: KCP, Kuzma, Christian Wood, Doug McDermott, Marcus Smart, Jordan Clarkson, Josh Hart, etc.

So if you have those contracts to play with, you could see a scenario where they become valuable assets. Not saying any of those teams will deal those dudes straight up for Saric and Craig, but salary matching is step 1 to making a trade possible.

[bwgood77]

The issue you run into is if you stretch those guys, we only have the MLE and minimum deals to replace them. Could you find a diamond in the rough for a minimum deal? Sure. But it's not a sure thing and we start drifting into the territory that teams like Brooklyn and LA are in where you've got stars and minimum guys. Which clearly doesn't work.

I think you start to run into problems when you've got your 8 man rotation and then 7 minimum guys/rookies. Because it doesn't give a ton of depth in the event of injury.

I would just stretch Saric and Craig for now, because they have only 1 year and it saves $10 million. Now if we had Bezos has our owner and the tax wasn't a problem, then I keep them. But if they try to pay Ayton $10 million less and end up trading him to save $10 million I think it's the smarter move to just stretch those guys.

Based on their play this year, I'd stretch Payne and Shamet too. But you are right, we would have only the MLE and minimums, so you have to keep someone. But I think we could get some minimum guys at the big (like Bismack), keep Wainwright, even possibly bring back Nader for the minimum or something and Kaminsky isn't really too much worse than the most recent we've seen of Saric, and with Saric coming back from injury he might be even worse.

Our backup guard play has been bad but they are young and I have to think they will get better. Payne was great last year and Shamet has shot a lot better. Payne in a contract year and Shamet with an offseason to work, maybe they come back better.

I think Craig has more value as an expiring contract than he does purely as a guy to be stretched. I also believe he still has value to this team, even if he hasn't played up to expectations so far, 3 and D wings will always have value in this league. I just don't think you stretch someone who is a tradable asset. Same goes for Saric, who frankly we don't know what he'll look like post injury. He was never a very explosive player, so I don't know how much it will really change for him. I also think having Saric as an option behind a big like McGee or Biyombo is great to have because he's a playmaker and a shooter, which is something neither of those guys bring. It gives us a lot more versatility in terms of the lineups we can play.

Then you get into their contracts as assets, where if you combine Saric and Craig, you get around $14m, which is around the salary of guys like: KCP, Kuzma, Christian Wood, Doug McDermott, Marcus Smart, Jordan Clarkson, Josh Hart, etc.

So if you have those contracts to play with, you could see a scenario where they become valuable assets. Not saying any of those teams will deal those dudes straight up for Saric and Craig, but salary matching is step 1 to making a trade possible.

If those guys are tradable for assets where we don't have to bring equal salary back, then yeah, I'd rather do that than stretch. I don't imagine we'd get a good player for them though...maybe a decent one, but that would kind of defeat the purpose of making a move to help your cap space/tax. I am unsure if a team would give up a second round pick for those guys, but maybe. Typically the value of an expiring contract to a team is getting off long term salary to get an expiring and I doubt our goal would be to trade for someone with a longer salary, someone you could get for a Saric or Craig.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Have to dump with picks, bad optics but only way Sarver gets out of paying $80m in tax.

Stretching doesn't save anything really as you have to pay them and the replacement and over more years and since no salary actually got cut there's a clog in salary in 2 years so the luxury tax is highest when we need to replace Paul and then we can't it's like bad tetris just get rid of the bad row asap and avoid pile up errors.

You still have to pay them what you owe them stretching them but the money is wiped out for cap/tax purposes....so they do save a ton of money in tax since they will likely be up in the $3.25 per dollar tax range with that extra $10 million.

If we dump more picks to get rid of players our problems with depth just get bigger in the future. We've already screwed up our last two first-round picks. We need to hit on the next couple, or find a diamond in the rough guys for minimums/UDFAs....but you have a lot better chance of drafting in the late 20s or 30 to get someone cheap that could be a solid backup.

This is the right mentality honestly, (in keeping our upcoming draft assets and actually hitting on them) because, At some point, you have to balance out your roster with those cost-controlled assets to offset your larger-scale core salaries. Now I understand the premise of wanting to maintain a high level of established veterans for the purpose of competing. But Paul is only getting older and our team (with Saver at the Helm) will inevitably be significantly altered over the coming seasons for his "cash considerations" and bottom-line/ profit margin mentality. I wanted us to maintain a consistent influx of young cost-controlled talent so that we could have a smoother (more balanced fiscally) transition around our core once Paul is gone and Crowder and Saric are also off the books too anyways. I mean I would've loved us to have identified players like Herb Jones, Or even Alvarado (undrafted pool). How many would prefer Jones in Craigs' role off the bench behind Bridges or even Alvarado in Paynes' role or as an alternative option to what Payton offered as a 3rd string guard option? And with emphasis on the contractual difference in overall cost likely helping reduce our tax burden significantly ( savings from Craigs' 5 million per/ Paynes' 6 million) Not to mention with not doing the Shamet trade, We'd not have that additional 10 million due to hit our books next season either! that would equate to somewhere around 15 million + - in savings to put toward Johnsons' extension or Aytons' IF Saver doesn't actually move him. Now I get that "What's done is done"! But going forward we really need to properly utilize our draft assets to maintain a modicum of incoming talent to transition competitively post Paul. And maintain a more fiscally balanced roster as well when considering our looming core extensions. Even I myself have surprisingly enough not postulated much about the draft or even trades (Post Gordon Discussion) in the interest of buying into our theoretical title contender projection. Ultimately though, BW is right in that we have to look to start addressing costs and the imminent post-Paul era.

** Imagine ( IF we had actually invested in top-notch draft scouting instead of just minimalizing the value of the draft) AND walking away with one of Bane, Maxey, Pritchard or Quickley instead of Payne or Payton? And one of Herb Jones, Jordan Nwora, Kenyon Martin Jr off the bench in the backup 2/3 role that Shamet or craig currently occupy? And on rookie-scale contracts. That's how we can better absorb our looming core extensions.

[bwgood77]

Interesting to see in an article about head coaching candidates being watched that the first two mentioned are Suns assistants.

Here are the coaches -- some well known, some under-the-radar -- whom NBA front offices are keeping close tabs on as they look for future hires.

If it's alignment you're looking for, Suns associate head coach Kevin Young is a natural fit. Both the Suns' basketball ops crew and head coach Monty Williams regard Young as an essential hub to share ideas across the organization. It's a logical role for a young coach who excels at both listening and communicating. Young served as a head coach in the G League for six seasons, which gave him a foundation as an organizer and big-picture thinker. He has earned the respect of players with his work ethic and candor. He was a finalist for the Washington job last spring, where his sharpness impressed.

One to watch for the future: It's only a matter of time before we speak about a Williams coaching tree. Multiple sources who have worked with him in Minnesota and Phoenix believe Brian Randle, whose cadence and messaging resemble his boss, could be a branch on that tree. He has made a full swing through the NBA career fair -- video room in Minnesota, player development, and now generalist behind the bench for the Suns. An all-world defender who had a successful career in Israel, Randle has a keen understanding of that end of the floor. He knows how to scheme and, just as important, can communicate those schemes to the roster.

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/33849936/nba-coaching-prospects-here-top-names-league-insiders-extolling-scenes