Who is the worst positioned team for the rest of the decade?

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Worst positioned team?

Kings
90
26%
Knicks
28
8%
Lakers
137
40%
Magic
15
4%
Nets
27
8%
Pacers
5
1%
Wizards
23
7%
Other
16
5%
 
Total votes: 341

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Re: Who is the worst positioned team for the rest of the decade? 

Post#81 » by dhsilv2 » Sun May 8, 2022 7:36 pm

Scalabrine wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
Scalabrine wrote:The Knicks and Kings are only on this because of their history. Both teams actually have picks, assets, and not really any bad deals to stack against them.


Well and their owners and GM's....and where they play doesn't help.


Playing in New York City and at Madison Square Garden "doesn't help"?????


No...the media has been trying to argue it does for 20 years and it hasn't mattered to players. NYC is a cool place to spend a weekend at and the guarden is kinda cool like going to some outdated museum, but beyond that I don't think anyone really wants that to be their home court or where they live. And if they do, it seems guys would rather go play for the nets. We all can have our own biases as I honestly think NYC is the worst city I've ever been to, but my opinion or yours doesn't matter. It's NBA players and even if we go back to the 90's they just haven't been a destination for star players.
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Re: Who is the worst positioned team for the rest of the decade? 

Post#82 » by Whole Truth » Sun May 8, 2022 7:51 pm

Incipio wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:
facothomas22 wrote:Very easy.The Lakers and it's not even close. They have zero 1st round draft picks until 2027(yes you're reading that correctly). They have Lebron James,who will opt out for Free Agency after next season. Russell Westbrook will be a Free Agent after next season.That leave them with a injury prome Anthony Davis and bunch of low tier role player/scrubs until Davis expire in 2025,which at that point,he will opt out for free agency. I wouldn't be suprised if from the 2025/26-2027/28 seasons,their best players end up being someone like Austin Reeves or Horton Tucker who both have ceiling of a low tier role players. Even the 80s Clippers or the 2010s Kings weren't this awful position wise and had some actual good players to work with despite of being terrible overall.


Lakers don't have their pick potentially till 2027 because NO's own the right to swap yrs in 24/25 which ties up an additional yr. If Lakers are lottery in 24 & NO's like their draft position, Lakers will have their 25th pick & can trade their 26th pick. So essentially if LA is bad in the recent future & convey in 24, it would be the last yr they owe a pick restricting future trade. Same yr they possible shed most of their salary obligation.

If Davis is relatively healthy next season, Lakers will IMO have a bounce back yr.. Lebron didn't take the 2 yr extension & Russ is coming off the books in 24. One last run with Lebron/AD 23, one thow away season 24, they clear their cap, their picks owed & still have Davs in his prime if he's not traded for assets.

I wouldb't put money on their demise, though it's possible.


Agree.
Lakers have a first round pick in 2023, a pick in 2024 or 2025, and then all their first round picks 2026 and onward. Whoever said Lakers have no first round picks until 2027 is straight up lying.
Lakers also don't have any terrible long term contracts. They can easily add a max free agent to pair with AD if Lebron is gone.


That poster used a poor choice of words. Due to the draft rule, a team can't trade a first B2B yrs. So the fact Pelicans reserve the right to swap yr 24 for 25, until they convert that pick, Lakers can't trade a first till 27, which is what that poster was most likely getting at, though worded poorly, saying no pick till, when he should have said, can't trade a pick till. Even then that's not exactly correct either. In the case NO's take the Lakers pick in 24, the earliest, is 26.

NO's have the RTS in 23.
NO's have the RTS yrs 24/25.
Lakers at worse settle debt in 25, if they don't worsen their current situation. Use a FRP to move WB, to add a player, or to clear cap in order to sign Monk, etc.

Lakers really only lose one more pick after this year. So his statement is not true as stated but the intent in his post was to say they can't trade a pick till 27, which will handcuff the trade avenue to improve the team for at least 4-5yrs & though they only lose one pick over that span, NO's control the next 3 Lakers drafts where they will get the best of 2 picks available to the Lakers.

Their cap situation as I stated isn't bad either if they don't force the WB situation. By 24 It's basically AD & a fairly clean slate but they could worsen the cap situation by trade or by stretch provision, possibly used to sign/retain Monk.

I think LA will have a bounce back yr next yr even if they do little over the offseason, they only need a healthy Davis in reality. Then it's potentially one down season to clear cap, settle debt & it's AD + a clean slate. Money off the books & pick debt settled.

OF course this is dependent on Lakers not forcing the issue which is yet to be seen.
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Re: Who is the worst positioned team for the rest of the decade? 

Post#83 » by Ein Sof » Sun May 8, 2022 8:08 pm

I would say Seattle.
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Re: Who is the worst positioned team for the rest of the decade? 

Post#84 » by HanzGruber » Sun May 8, 2022 8:11 pm

Lol no way is it the Lakers. Not even close. Sure they have no picks and Lebron is old. But it’s still Los Angeles. Look how fast they went from trash to winning a title

No one wants to play in nyc or sac
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Re: Who is the worst positioned team for the rest of the decade? 

Post#85 » by FNQ » Sun May 8, 2022 8:18 pm

I'm going with:

Tier 1: No direction, no young stars to hang their hat on
Lakers
Wizards
Kings (Kings graduate to tier 1A if they hire Mark Jackson, and stand alone at the mountaintop of suck)
Portland

Tier 2: Have direction, but a lot of uncertainty
Detroit
Houston
OKC

Tier 3: Unclear direction, pivotal offseason
Utah
Knicks
Hornets
Pacers

Tier 4: Underachievers, very possible to rebound
Nets
Hawks
Nuggets
Clippers

The rest are in the top 15
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Re: Who is the worst positioned team for the rest of the decade? 

Post#86 » by FNQ » Sun May 8, 2022 8:18 pm

Ein Sof wrote:I would say Seattle.


hurtful
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Re: Who is the worst positioned team for the rest of the decade? 

Post#87 » by USWAY » Sun May 8, 2022 8:24 pm

I go Wiz #1 The Wiz seem focused on building around a guy who at best is a 2a/b on a contender team.
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Re: Who is the worst positioned team for the rest of the decade? 

Post#88 » by Incipio » Sun May 8, 2022 8:47 pm

Whole Truth wrote:
Incipio wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:
Lakers don't have their pick potentially till 2027 because NO's own the right to swap yrs in 24/25 which ties up an additional yr. If Lakers are lottery in 24 & NO's like their draft position, Lakers will have their 25th pick & can trade their 26th pick. So essentially if LA is bad in the recent future & convey in 24, it would be the last yr they owe a pick restricting future trade. Same yr they possible shed most of their salary obligation.

If Davis is relatively healthy next season, Lakers will IMO have a bounce back yr.. Lebron didn't take the 2 yr extension & Russ is coming off the books in 24. One last run with Lebron/AD 23, one thow away season 24, they clear their cap, their picks owed & still have Davs in his prime if he's not traded for assets.

I wouldb't put money on their demise, though it's possible.


Agree.
Lakers have a first round pick in 2023, a pick in 2024 or 2025, and then all their first round picks 2026 and onward. Whoever said Lakers have no first round picks until 2027 is straight up lying.
Lakers also don't have any terrible long term contracts. They can easily add a max free agent to pair with AD if Lebron is gone.


That poster used a poor choice of words. Due to the draft rule, a team can't trade a first B2B yrs. So the fact Pelicans reserve the right to swap yr 24 for 25, until they convert that pick, Lakers can't trade a first till 27, which is what that poster was most likely getting at, though worded poorly, saying no pick till, when he should have said, can't trade a pick till. Even then that's not exactly correct either. In the case NO's take the Lakers pick in 24, the earliest, is 26.

NO's have the RTS in 23.
NO's have the RTS yrs 24/25.
Lakers at worse settle debt in 25, if they don't worsen their current situation. Use a FRP to move WB, to add a player, or to clear cap in order to sign Monk, etc.

Lakers really only lose one more pick after this year. So his statement is not true as stated but the intent in his post was to say they can't trade a pick till 27, which will handcuff the trade avenue to improve the team for at least 4-5yrs & though they only lose one pick over that span, NO's control the next 3 Lakers drafts where they will get the best of 2 picks available to the Lakers.

Their cap situation as I stated isn't bad either if they don't force the WB situation. By 24 It's basically AD & a fairly clean slate but they could worsen the cap situation by trade or by stretch provision, possibly used to sign/retain Monk.

I think LA will have a bounce back yr next yr even if they do little over the offseason, they only need a healthy Davis in reality. Then it's potentially one down season to clear cap, settle debt & it's AD + a clean slate. Money off the books & pick debt settled.

OF course this is dependent on Lakers not forcing the issue which is yet to be seen.


Nah, that poster is clearly trying to say Lakers have no first round draft picks at all until 2027. He wouldn't put the parentheses if he's trying to say they can't trade until 2027.
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Re: Who is the worst positioned team for the rest of the decade? 

Post#89 » by FrobeBryant » Sun May 8, 2022 9:13 pm

The Lakers may seem poorly positioned but keep in mind that they’ve hardly ever relied on draft picks to build a roster in years past. They have the allure of location and brand. The longest playoff drought they’ve ever had lasted about 6-7 years. They will be just fine
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Re: Who is the worst positioned team for the rest of the decade? 

Post#90 » by madmaxmedia » Sun May 8, 2022 9:37 pm

FrobeBryant wrote:The Lakers may seem poorly positioned but keep in mind that they’ve hardly ever relied on draft picks to build a roster in years past. They have the allure of location and brand. The longest playoff drought they’ve ever had lasted about 6-7 years. They will be just fine


I guess how I would ultimately out is that their inherent advantages counteract the disadvantages, so they’re not really the worst off. It’s very much a glass half full/ hand empty scenario.

Advantages:
1. Storied LA franchise and market
2. No long term contract baggage
3. Lebron and AD

Disadvantages
1. Poor draft capital the next few years
2. Lebron could leave after next season
3. Poor FO (good enough short term, but very questionable IMO as long term strategizers)
4. Poor roster depth
5. How AD is gonna hold up the next few seasons

A good FO would be able to work it with what they do have. I don’t think Pelinka is that guy, maybe Linda can talk some sense into Jeannie???
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Re: Who is the worst positioned team for the rest of the decade? 

Post#91 » by Scalabrine » Mon May 9, 2022 12:39 am

dhsilv2 wrote:
Scalabrine wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
Well and their owners and GM's....and where they play doesn't help.


Playing in New York City and at Madison Square Garden "doesn't help"?????


No...the media has been trying to argue it does for 20 years and it hasn't mattered to players. NYC is a cool place to spend a weekend at and the guarden is kinda cool like going to some outdated museum, but beyond that I don't think anyone really wants that to be their home court or where they live. And if they do, it seems guys would rather go play for the nets. We all can have our own biases as I honestly think NYC is the worst city I've ever been to, but my opinion or yours doesn't matter. It's NBA players and even if we go back to the 90's they just haven't been a destination for star players.


You're right, players haven't come to MSG to play, but theres one BIG hole in your little argument..."Going back to the 90's", there have been THREE times where they have had any significant cap space to bring a star. 2010, 2016, and 2020. As a franchise, up until the past 2ish years, the Knicks have continually been in the tax or way over the cap, filled with bad long-term deals attached to aging veterans.

High profile players consistently mention that MSG is their favorite place to play, or NY is what they circle on the calendar when the schedule comes out.

Read on Twitter



https://www.yahoo.com/now/kobe-bryant-i-always-kind-of-dreamed-about-playing-in-new-york-214814785.html#:~:text=%E2%80%9CI%20always%20kind%20of%20dreamed,like%20the%20last%20one%20left.
“I always kind of dreamed about playing in New York and what that would have been like. It’s true. As a fan, the Garden was the historical arena...So, I always wanted to be a part of that history and play in it. So, New York was a team … it would have been pretty good to play in that city.” - Kobe Bryant


Read on Twitter


There are countless others too.

It's fine to not like the city, but thats a minority opinion, and to not recognize that is pure idiocy.
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Re: Who is the worst positioned team for the rest of the decade? 

Post#92 » by giberish » Mon May 9, 2022 12:50 am

FrobeBryant wrote:The Lakers may seem poorly positioned but keep in mind that they’ve hardly ever relied on draft picks to build a roster in years past. They have the allure of location and brand. The longest playoff drought they’ve ever had lasted about 6-7 years. They will be just fine


They've always had something to start from in order to recruit more. They had a .500 core they could add Shaq to (and Kobe but I don't see HS Kobe changing Shaq's mind) so he wasn't going to have to do everything (in addition to getting more money than Orlando offered and being on the Lakers). They had Kobe and Odom in place when adding for their 2008-2010 team. They at least had a bunch of high lottery picks and cap space to work with when they signed LeBron.

They could get a bunch of cap space in a few years but it will be a long time before they accumulate the draft picks and youth they had when LeBron came.
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Re: Who is the worst positioned team for the rest of the decade? 

Post#93 » by giberish » Mon May 9, 2022 1:00 am

Scalabrine wrote:
There are countless others too.

It's fine to not like the city, but thats a minority opinion, and to not recognize that is pure idiocy.


There's a huge difference between saying nice things about NY and actually signing there (especially as an in-demand FA with options). Players rarely openly diss markets. And the NY media, being larger and louder then any other local media, hype up the polite statements guys say as they pass through town as if they are meaningful (when it's really about as meaningful as the 'cliches for the media' list from Bull Durham).

It's tough to see any real evidence for in-demand FA's to really prefer signing with the Knicks.
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Re: Who is the worst positioned team for the rest of the decade? 

Post#94 » by Scalabrine » Mon May 9, 2022 1:35 am

double post
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Re: Who is the worst positioned team for the rest of the decade? 

Post#95 » by Scalabrine » Mon May 9, 2022 1:43 am

giberish wrote:
Scalabrine wrote:
There are countless others too.

It's fine to not like the city, but thats a minority opinion, and to not recognize that is pure idiocy.


There's a huge difference between saying nice things about NY and actually signing there (especially as an in-demand FA with options). Players rarely openly diss markets. And the NY media, being larger and louder then any other local media, hype up the polite statements guys say as they pass through town as if they are meaningful (when it's really about as meaningful as the 'cliches for the media' list from Bull Durham).

It's tough to see any real evidence for in-demand FA's to really prefer signing with the Knicks.


Ah, yes, just ignore the entire point of the post you just responded to. Thats fine!

Carmelo Anthony demanded a trade to the Knicks. Didn't want to go to the Nets or any other team. Amare Stoudemire had made the All Star Team 5 straight seasons and then signed with the Knicks. When Dwight Howard was a superstar and wanted a trade from Orlando, the Knicks were on his short list. Same when Kobe demanded a trade that one off-season. Pretty sure KG too.

Knicks have just rarely had capspace or any good young players or tradable contracts. We've continually traded future picks and taken on bad contracts. It started with Allan Houston, then Penny Hardaway to get Stephon Marbury, then trading all of our expiring contracts for Jamal Crawford, then trading unprotected picks and swaps and more expirings for Eddy Curry, then traded Penny's expiring and our best young asset (Trevor Ariza) for Steve Francis, and it kept going on and on and on...Amare was a star but then get hurt, trading all of our assets for Carmelo when we could have just waited till the off-season to sign him out-right, then we signed Tyson Chandler (probably the top big man of that off-season) by amnestying Chauncey Billups, didn't have cap space the rest of that tenure because Amare's knee exploded and no amnesty. Is this enough of a history lesson?

This is not the case now, we have all of our own picks + others, we have no bad contracts, we have a ton solid young players (no elite ones though, but RJ has All-Star potential) on movable deals.

A better question is, go out and find a quote of any high profile players talking about Sacramento? OKC? Indiana? Memphis??? Thats where this all started...[/quote]
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Re: Who is the worst positioned team for the rest of the decade? 

Post#96 » by SelfishPlayer » Mon May 9, 2022 1:50 am

To be in a bad position for the next ten years can IMO only be predicted by maintaining a horrible ownership. So the Knicks.
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Re: Who is the worst positioned team for the rest of the decade? 

Post#97 » by fteru6uhre54ew » Mon May 9, 2022 2:21 am

If the GM Lebron basically because Pelinka is a joke or if the new coach has a little of balls do the things right I say that they are going to be up again next year. If Westbrook is still there not for sure. I wouldn't say Carmelo because that has to be a joke

Teams like Spurs I wouldn't want to be in that position 9 or 10 with an atrocius individual talent, Orlando, Okc, Sacramento, Indiana teams like that if they don't get a generational talent are going to be down there. Well and the Knicks paying that to Randle
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Re: Who is the worst positioned team for the rest of the decade? 

Post#98 » by picko » Mon May 9, 2022 2:41 am

Long-term underperformance is tied closely with ownership rather than one's immediate roster / coaching or draft picks. Bad ownership is associated with poor hiring decisions - the most important being inadequate GMs and coaching decisions.

So if you want to know the teams worst positioned over the next decade, then look squarely at the teams with the worst owners. In this case, past perform is likely indicative of future performance.
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Re: Who is the worst positioned team for the rest of the decade? 

Post#99 » by dribble1614 » Mon May 9, 2022 2:53 am

best futures:

bucks (best player in the league in his prime, 2 borderline all-star teammates and championship proven supporting cast).
mavs (probably second or third best player in the league who's very, very young, no legitimate all-star sidekick yet still having a great playoffs run).
nets * (major asterisk being health and availability. if everyone on the floor and healthy, a possible force)
nuggets (ultra stacked if everyone healthy like the nets, but availability the major question. dominant mvp player in his prime)
sixers (stacked team with an mvp and a star teammate and possibly a blossoming perennial all-star in maxey as well)
celtics (again, very young team with a young superstar and great young defensive supporting cast and head coach)

worst futures:
kings, thunder, rockets, lakers, magic, pistons, etc are all there due to being terrible teams and/or having poor cap space and lack of flexibility to improve teams going forward.
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Re: Who is the worst positioned team for the rest of the decade? 

Post#100 » by giberish » Mon May 9, 2022 2:59 am

Scalabrine wrote:
giberish wrote:
Scalabrine wrote:
There are countless others too.

It's fine to not like the city, but thats a minority opinion, and to not recognize that is pure idiocy.


There's a huge difference between saying nice things about NY and actually signing there (especially as an in-demand FA with options). Players rarely openly diss markets. And the NY media, being larger and louder then any other local media, hype up the polite statements guys say as they pass through town as if they are meaningful (when it's really about as meaningful as the 'cliches for the media' list from Bull Durham).

It's tough to see any real evidence for in-demand FA's to really prefer signing with the Knicks.


Ah, yes, just ignore the entire point of the post you just responded to. Thats fine!

Carmelo Anthony demanded a trade to the Knicks. Didn't want to go to the Nets or any other team. Amare Stoudemire had made the All Star Team 5 straight seasons and then signed with the Knicks. When Dwight Howard was a superstar and wanted a trade from Orlando, the Knicks were on his short list. Same when Kobe demanded a trade that one off-season. Pretty sure KG too.

Knicks have just rarely had capspace or any good young players or tradable contracts. We've continually traded future picks and taken on bad contracts. It started with Allan Houston, then Penny Hardaway to get Stephon Marbury, then trading all of our expiring contracts for Jamal Crawford, then trading unprotected picks and swaps and more expirings for Eddy Curry, then traded Penny's expiring and our best young asset (Trevor Ariza) for Steve Francis, and it kept going on and on and on...Amare was a star but then get hurt, trading all of our assets for Carmelo when we could have just waited till the off-season to sign him out-right, then we signed Tyson Chandler (probably the top big man of that off-season) by amnestying Chauncey Billups, didn't have cap space the rest of that tenure because Amare's knee exploded and no amnesty. Is this enough of a history lesson?

This is not the case now, we have all of our own picks + others, we have no bad contracts, we have a ton solid young players (no elite ones though, but RJ has All-Star potential) on movable deals.

A better question is, go out and find a quote of any high profile players talking about Sacramento? OKC? Indiana? Memphis??? Thats where this all started...


Melo did force a trade to NY (it's at least unclear if he considered the Nets OK as they were certainly talking to Denver).

Otherwise?

The guys that teams with cap space were actually competing for in 2010 went elsewhere. The Knicks got Amare the same way they got Noah a few years later - by wildly overpaying what any sane team would consider offering (of course in 2016 many teams made HORRIBLE FA offers so the Knicks certainly weren't alone). Every team in the league is capable of doing that.

The rest? pandering talk for the NY media. The actual results are that the combination of NYK + Dolan is a mediocre FA draw. Not the worst in the league but hardly elite either.

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