Highest reasonable ranking for Dirk Nowitzki?

[ardee]

Personally, I have him at 12. I know this is pretty high but the more I considered just how good he was for how long, the total career value becomes undeniable.

I don't think I could go much higher. I have Bird at 11 and despite Dirk's longevity advantage I think prime Bird was too good to justify ranking him lower than Dirk.

Thoughts?

[migya]

Can't put him higher than 17-18.

Outside the top 10 I have West, Malone, Oscar, Robinson, Garnett. I think Barkley and Moses are ahead of Nowitzki. I rate Stockton and Baylor highly as well and they were big in their teams winning as well as having great individual careers.

[falcolombardi]

i can see a someehat reasonable argument for as high as 11 or 12

his offensive impact across a long time is outstanding , if you see him as even a slightly plus defender then he is up there with anyone outside the usual top 10~ guys

[TheGOATRises007]

Not sure he'd crack my top 15.

I used to think Dirk was better than KG, but I've changed my mind on that and I'm not even sure KG is definitively in my top 15 either.

[Jaivl]

I'd hear arguments for as high as #8 or #9 I think.

[70sFan]

I can see him close to 10th spot to be honest.

I don't have him that high personally, although I'm high on his offense I feel more concerned about his weaknesses than others here (defense, passing). Still, wouldn't put him outside top 20.

[migya]

I'd hear arguments for as high as #8 or #9 I think.

Yea if you don't much count defense, rebounding and passing. Durant might to 5 by that measure.

[Jaivl]

I'd hear arguments for as high as #8 or #9 I think.

Yea if you don't much count defense, rebounding and passing. Durant might to 5 by that measure.

It's perfectly possible if you give a similar value to his early prime years than to his late prime ones, which one could perfectly do. If you take boxscores at face value it doesn't seem that wild.

[Lou Fan]

High teens. Once you get into Larry Bird territory you've gone too far.

[Dutchball97]

You could probably make a decent case for around 15th. Maybe you could talk him just inside the top 10 but that's a bit of a stretch where you'd have to lean extremely heavy on longevity.

[FuShengTHEGreat]

2nd greatest PF ever

[Stalwart]

Top 20. Anything else is typical PC board fantasy talk.

[LAL1947]

1) Jordan
2) Wilt
3) Lebron
4) Bird
5) Kobe
6) Magic
7) Hakeem
8) Kareem
9) Shaq
10) Duncan
11) Russell

Dirk over these 11 guys is inarguable. To these 11... I'll add 12 players in chronological order: George Mikan, Jerry West, Oscar Robertson, Julius Erwing, Isaiah, Stockton, Malone, KG, Durant, Curry, Giannis and Jokic. I'm not sure how to go about making a case for Dirk over these 12. So if someone could please show me how to argue it... I'd be happy to read and +1 your posts.

11 + 12 is 23. So 24th is Dirk's highest ranking to me.

[70sFan]

1) Jordan
2) Wilt
3) Lebron
4) Bird
5) Kobe
6) Magic
7) Hakeem
8) Kareem
9) Shaq
10) Duncan
11) Russell

Dirk over these 11 guys is inarguable. To these 11... I'll add 12 players in chronological order: George Mikan, Jerry West, Oscar Robertson, Julius Irwing, Stockton, Malone, Isaiah, KG, Durant, Curry, Giannis and Jokic. I'm really not sure how to go about making a case for Dirk over these 12. So if someone could please show me how to argue it... I'd be happy to read and +1 your posts.

11 + 12 is 23. So 24th is Dirk's highest ranking to me.

Please, change your post to spell Erving's name correcty

As for arguments, I think he has very reasonable case over someone like Jokic. Joker has been amazing during the last 4 years and he already peaked considerably higher than Dirk, but Nowitzki was superstar for over decade (2001-11) and he had a lot of deep strong postseason runs. I think the massive longevity advantage should be taken into account. The same thing applies to Giannis, though Giannis has one more strong season than Jokic (2018).

If you don't care about longevity though, then what's the case for Stockton? I'd say that Dirk peaked considerably higher than him and Stockton never reached the level of 2011 (or 2006) Dirk in postseason.

Lastly, I don't think there is any reason to put Thomas ahead of Dirk, outside of ring counting. He's just not on the level of the rest mentioned players.

At the same time, you didn't mention some names like David Robinson and Moses Malone who you can argue over Dirk I suppose.

[70sFan]

Top 20. Anything else is typical PC board fantasy talk.

Top 20 means what exactly? Is 20th the highest possible? Is 17th unreasonable? Or maybe anything up to 10th spot sounds plasuable?

[Dutchball97]

1) Jordan
2) Wilt
3) Lebron
4) Bird
5) Kobe
6) Magic
7) Hakeem
8) Kareem
9) Shaq
10) Duncan
11) Russell

Dirk over these 11 guys is inarguable. To these 11... I'll add 12 players in chronological order: George Mikan, Jerry West, Oscar Robertson, Julius Irwing, Stockton, Malone, Isaiah, KG, Durant, Curry, Giannis and Jokic. I'm really not sure how to go about making a case for Dirk over these 12. So if someone could please show me how to argue it... I'd be happy to read and +1 your posts.

11 + 12 is 23. So 24th is Dirk's highest ranking to me.

A couple names jump out at me. Isiah Thomas most of all. He only had 5 All-NBA selections with the last one being in 87. His highest ranking in MVP voting was 5th in 84 and he followed that up with some back end of top 10 consideration from 85 to 87. Point is he was never really that close to best player in the league and his rings came when he was already on a steady individual decline. He was good in the 1990 play-offs but he wasn't that impressive in 1989 tbh. Overall a great player but not really top 20 material as his performance doesn't line up with his accomplishments/reputation.

Stockton has similar elite longevity to Dirk and was probably more consistent throughout his prime as well but he did play next to a player considered better than him for pretty much his entire career and while Dirk has multiple years at or near the top, Stockton rarely cracked the top 10 in a season.

Giannis and Jokic are probably a bit too early for me but they're definitely on pace to surpass Dirk if they remain relatively injury free and get some decent teams around them. Maybe same goes for Curry and KD to a degree but less so.

George Mikan is a bit of an enigma. Looking at his dominance over his era he's probably top 5 but looking at his competition (pro leagues still new, no black players), era (pre-shotclock) and longevity (did play in the BAA but only 6 seasons under the NBA banner) that drops him down a lot. You could have him over Dirk but it could go the other way as well depending on what you value more.

[Dutchball97]

1) Jordan
2) Wilt
3) Lebron
4) Bird
5) Kobe
6) Magic
7) Hakeem
8) Kareem
9) Shaq
10) Duncan
11) Russell

Dirk over these 11 guys is inarguable. To these 11... I'll add 12 players in chronological order: George Mikan, Jerry West, Oscar Robertson, Julius Irwing, Stockton, Malone, Isaiah, KG, Durant, Curry, Giannis and Jokic. I'm really not sure how to go about making a case for Dirk over these 12. So if someone could please show me how to argue it... I'd be happy to read and +1 your posts.

11 + 12 is 23. So 24th is Dirk's highest ranking to me.

Please, change your post to spell Erving's name correcty

As for arguments, I think he has very reasonable case over someone like Jokic. Joker has been amazing during the last 4 years and he already peaked considerably higher than Dirk, but Nowitzki was superstar for over decade (2001-11) and he had a lot of deep strong postseason runs. I think the massive longevity advantage should be taken into account. The same thing applies to Giannis, though Giannis has one more strong season than Jokic (2018).

If you don't care about longevity though, then what's the case for Stockton? I'd say that Dirk peaked considerably higher than him and Stockton never reached the level of 2011 (or 2006) Dirk in postseason.

Lastly, I don't think there is any reason to put Thomas ahead of Dirk, outside of ring counting. He's just not on the level of the rest mentioned players.

At the same time, you didn't mention some names like David Robinson and Moses Malone who you can argue over Dirk I suppose.

And of course while I'm writing my reply you comment pretty much the exact same names. I even wanted to mention Robinson and Moses as well. We're really not helping the hivemind narrative

[LAL1947]

And of course while I'm writing my reply you comment pretty much the exact same names. I even wanted to mention Robinson and Moses as well. We're really not helping the hivemind narrative

Hehehe, I'm glad you now see the difficulty I sometimes have.

[No-more-rings]

11-12. You can probably argue him ahead of Kobe based on merits of impact, and argue him over KG based on more notable playoff performances.

Don't think you can really place him over Bird or Magic, unless you think Dirk's past prime seasons make him a better player(they don't).

[Homer38]

Between 12 to 15