Eastern Conference | Round 2 | (2) Boston Celtics VS. (3) Milwaukee Bucks (TIED 3-3)

[Pachinko_]

Giannis is the most marketable player in the league, whose team is still alive in the playoffs.

Only player I can think of who's perhaps more marketable right now than Giannis is LeBron. However the TV ratings for the 2021 NBA finals (with Giannis) were up 32% compared to the 2020 NBA finals (with leBron)

https://www.sportingnews.com/ca/nba/news/nba-finals-2021-bucks-suns-championship-series-up-32-percent-in-viewership-versus-2020-finals/3x5x61e8rol11eadirffyyb9v

But Giannis has been around and winning MVPs for years, why did they suddenly decide to rig the games and refs in favour of Milwaukee and let us suffer with no help in the bubble, against KD and against Kawhi's Toronto previously? Was it the lucrative the Canadian market they were trying to capture?

Help me understand those hidden truths

I don’t think the league tries hard to market Giannis at all. 99.9 % of the population couldn’t spell his last name with a gun to their heads and being a foreign big man is obviously another strike. Just like the league doesn’t bother to market Jokic. I feel like someone like Reign Man and Grandmama were marketed way more back in the day and their stats and credentials can’t touch guys like Giannis and Jokic. Definitely a small market thing at this point. But yeah, these guys have 4 MVPs combined and alls people want to talk about is busted up Zion and old Lebron and Ben Simmons back and Trae Young these days.

It’s really like Hakeem back in the day. He didn’t appear in commercials or get promoted much but he was the best player in the league when Jordan retired in 1993 and all the press went to the youth movement of Shaq and Kemp. I guess it’s just guys that don’t generate much drama just have little appeal to the masses who sometimes seem more concerned with combustible personalities than transcendent basketball talents.

I know.
Just trying to illustrate how ridiculous it is to think the actual NBA would approach the officials to tell them to deliberately rig games in favour of friggin Milwaukee of all teams
Even if they do those things, which I have no idea but wouldn't necessarily put it past them, there's like 15 teams they'd rather do it for before they get to Milwaukee. Giannis or no Giannis. Bucks on a good day are *maybe* the 3rd most popular team in their own city ffs

[ballup]

Despite doubling us up on FTs on touch fouls. People see what they want to see man. In no universe would small market Milwaukee enjoy ref favoritism against the NBA's second most famous franchise.

Giannis is the most marketable player in the league, whose team is still alive in the playoffs.

Only player I can think of who's perhaps more marketable right now than Giannis is LeBron. However the TV ratings for the 2021 NBA finals (with Giannis) were up 32% compared to the 2020 NBA finals (with leBron)

https://www.sportingnews.com/ca/nba/news/nba-finals-2021-bucks-suns-championship-series-up-32-percent-in-viewership-versus-2020-finals/3x5x61e8rol11eadirffyyb9v

But Giannis has been around and winning MVPs for years, why did they suddenly decide to rig the games and refs in favour of Milwaukee and let us suffer with no help in the bubble, against KD and against Kawhi's Toronto previously? Was it the lucrative the Canadian market they were trying to capture?

Help me understand those hidden truths

Giannis gets favorable calls and the benefit of the doubt more often than not. You could even see it in this series. The refs were hesitant to put Giannis in foul trouble. They even wrongly assigned fouls to his teammates to prevent it. Superstar treatment is real.

Guys like Tatum and Jaylen don't get the same treatment. If they did, Jaylen wouldn't have gotten that 5th foul lasy game. The review would have been in his favor.



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[Pachinko_]

Giannis gets favorable calls and the benefit of the doubt more often than not. You could even see it in this series. The refs were hesitant to put Giannis in foul trouble. They even wrongly assigned fouls to his teammates to prevent it. Superstar treatment is real.

Guys like Tatum and Jaylen don't get the same treatment. If they did, Jaylen wouldn't have gotten that 5th foul lasy game. The review would have been in his favor.

Yeah...and nah, mostly nah. You can't really compare the whistle that Giannis gets with what other people do, simply because nobody *can* actually do what he does. Nobody is even trying. People don't intentionally drive in traffic in the paint all night to actively seek contact to see what happens on the average.

And if you do compare you'll sometimes find the opposite as well. For example JB pushes off with his off arm fully stretched, which is illegal but fine, every-single-guard does it. If Giannis does it though, because his frigging arm is so huge and strong the defender goes flying and it gets called. So he has to be extra careful with some stuff compared to other people. What you are watching is basically a steamroller running on eggshels.

Now if you want to talk about the travelling and carrying that Giannis does, all I can tell you is it's the NBA, you have to be a total idiot NOT to carry and travel, I mean look at this thing here:

Read on Twitter

If you are the main ballhandler for an NBA team and you *don't* do it, you are actively putting yourself at a disadvantage compared to pretty much everybody else.

Giannis literally dribbles differently with the National team, watch any FIBA game and you'll see it. He's not an idiot, when he plays in the NBA he does what NBA players do.

[theFireBlanket]

Giannis gets favorable calls and the benefit of the doubt more often than not. You could even see it in this series. The refs were hesitant to put Giannis in foul trouble. They even wrongly assigned fouls to his teammates to prevent it. Superstar treatment is real.

Guys like Tatum and Jaylen don't get the same treatment. If they did, Jaylen wouldn't have gotten that 5th foul lasy game. The review would have been in his favor.

Yeah...and nah, mostly nah. You can't really compare the whistle that Giannis gets with what other people do, simply because nobody *can* actually do what he does. Nobody is even trying. People don't intentionally drive in traffic in the paint all night to actively seek contact to see what happens.

And if you do compare you'll sometimes find the opposite as well. For example JB pushes off with his off arm fully stretched, which is fine, every-single-guard does it. If Giannis does it though, because his frigging arm is so huge and strong the defender goes flying and it gets called. So he has to be extra careful with some stuff compared to other people.

Now if you want to talk about the travelling and carrying that Giannis does, all I can tell you is it's the NBA, you have to be a total idiot NOT to carry and travel, I mean look at this thing here:

Read on Twitter

?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May

That's the NBA, if you *don't* do it you are actively putting yourself at a disadvantage compared to pretty much everybody else.

Giannis literally dribbles differently with the National team, watch any FIBA game and you'll see it. He's not an idiot, when he plays in the NBA he does what NBA players do.

Tatum & Brown out here whomping people on push offs & they don't get star deference? Brown hammered Wes Matthews on a screen last night, was like a bí slap.

[Hal14]

With Middleton out, Giannis and Holiday have to do more. With Robert Williams out, Horford, Tatum and Brown have to do more, particularly on the glass.

williams is back for game 5

[Kalela]

However it ends, this series has been fun.

[Pachinko_]

Yeah the series has been good, I'm really happy that the focus and narrative has shifted to defence and strategy rather than just whose superstar has the bigger dick.

Not entirely happy with my team so far, I appreciate the physicality and effort but if you strip out all the noise about refs and look at what the teams actually did on the floor I think in pure basketball terms we're currently being outplayed. Shooting is bad, Giannis's efficiency is bad, the offense is predictable and the defensive masterplan of making Horford beat us kinda blew up in our face spectacularly.

Don't mind going out as long as we put our best game on the floor first, and we havent done that yet.

[TheMartian]

Not so hot take but I bet both PHX and GS are rooting hard for Boston in this series. Think they’d both rather play them than a healthy Milwaukee team. (Dallas too but I have PHX beating them this series).

Golden State would struggle against Boston. Horrible matchup for the warriors.


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Agreed. The Celtics have always given GSW trouble whenever the play each other. Would be an interesting Finals matchup to say the least.

[th87]

Mike Budenholzer is Mike McCarthy.

What's the basketball equivalent to ignoring special teams?

Actually, I don't know that McCarthy did that. I just recall one particular breakdown, which he had foretold due to injuries.

That's Matt Lafleur. Packers' special teams incompetence has existed since the turn of the millennium.

[Ill News]

Not so hot take but I bet both PHX and GS are rooting hard for Boston in this series. Think they’d both rather play them than a healthy Milwaukee team. (Dallas too but I have PHX beating them this series).

I agree with you, Bucks with a healthy Middleton is a scary team. Nobody wants to face a prime Giannis in 7 games.

That said, I think PHX and GS could potentially struggle against the Celtics too. They have the speed and physicality to completely disrupt the Warriors' offense, and they have the personnel to make life tough for CP3 and Booker as well (I'd love to see the flop-off between Smart and CP3 lol). BOS-PHX or BOS-GSW would both be fantastic series though, so you better root for us to come out of the East

[Fencer reregistered]

Mike Budenholzer is Mike McCarthy.

What's the basketball equivalent to ignoring special teams?

Actually, I don't know that McCarthy did that. I just recall one particular breakdown, which he had foretold due to injuries.

That's Matt Lafleur. Packers' special teams incompetence has existed since the turn of the millennium.

One of the worst weeks in my life was when I traveled to clean out my late parents' apartment (they died 2 days apart, neither knowing of the other's condition). Taking a break in a dingy hotel room, I watched some football. (I was still a Patriots fan then.)

That was the game with the Dan Connolly kickoff return. Between it being one of the great feel-good plays ever -- especially as portrayed by the announcers -- and the personal context for me, never before or since has a football play brought me that much pleasure.

Watch on YouTube

[ballup]

Giannis gets favorable calls and the benefit of the doubt more often than not. You could even see it in this series. The refs were hesitant to put Giannis in foul trouble. They even wrongly assigned fouls to his teammates to prevent it. Superstar treatment is real.

Guys like Tatum and Jaylen don't get the same treatment. If they did, Jaylen wouldn't have gotten that 5th foul lasy game. The review would have been in his favor.

Yeah...and nah, mostly nah. You can't really compare the whistle that Giannis gets with what other people do, simply because nobody *can* actually do what he does. Nobody is even trying. People don't intentionally drive in traffic in the paint all night to actively seek contact to see what happens on the average.

And if you do compare you'll sometimes find the opposite as well. For example JB pushes off with his off arm fully stretched, which is illegal but fine, every-single-guard does it. If Giannis does it though, because his frigging arm is so huge and strong the defender goes flying and it gets called. So he has to be extra careful with some stuff compared to other people. What you are watching is basically a steamroller running on eggshels.

Now if you want to talk about the travelling and carrying that Giannis does, all I can tell you is it's the NBA, you have to be a total idiot NOT to carry and travel, I mean look at this thing here:

Read on Twitter

If you are the main ballhandler for an NBA team and you *don't* do it, you are actively putting yourself at a disadvantage compared to pretty much everybody else.

Giannis literally dribbles differently with the National team, watch any FIBA game and you'll see it. He's not an idiot, when he plays in the NBA he does what NBA players do.

Using too much force is warranted for an offensive foul. Giannis gets away with so much more force than your average perimeter player. You can't even say he's holding back with how physical he is on both sides of the ball. It doesn't matter how strong Giannis is. It's illegal for an offensive player to use his off arm or shoulders to dislodge a defender. Both Celtics and Suns fans are vocal of how excessive it can be and how it's not called the same way for the team the Bucks are facing.

Off arm pushoffs are a topic I'd like to extrapolate. Both Jays do get called for pushing off. Sometimes they'll get away with it, but a good portion of the time they will use the proper legal armbar. Giannis, however, is always going 100 mph so some his off arms end up being strikes instead of keeping off the defender. While it is hard for the refs to get it right every time, the ones they miss look so egregious.

It's not even myth thay superstars get treated differently. The refs have admitted that they default to giving the superstar the benefit of the doubt.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[th87]

What's the basketball equivalent to ignoring special teams?

Actually, I don't know that McCarthy did that. I just recall one particular breakdown, which he had foretold due to injuries.

That's Matt Lafleur. Packers' special teams incompetence has existed since the turn of the millennium.

One of the worst weeks in my life was when I traveled to clean out my late parents' apartment (they died 2 days apart, neither knowing of the other's condition). Taking a break in a dingy hotel room, I watched some football. (I was still a Patriots fan then.)

That was the game with the Dan Connolly kickoff return. Between it being one of the great feel-good plays ever -- especially as portrayed by the announcers -- and the personal context for me, never before or since has a football play brought me that much pleasure.

Watch on YouTube

Oh, that must've been horrible. I'm so sorry.

For me, that play was an exasperated eyeroll, because here we go again, but also I didn't feel we had any business winning that game with Rodgers missing it (concussion; Flynn started). Interestingly, that was the game that made the Packers believe they could win the SB because they were able to hang with the formidable Patriots, which they then went on to do.

True special teams idiocy came in the 2014 NFCCG, falling for an obvious fake FG and then losing in a way that caused me to reevaluate sports fandom, and then this past year on a series of miscues, squandering a SB-caliber team.

[Pachinko_]

Both Celtics and Suns fans are vocal of how excessive it can be and how it's not called the same way for the team the Bucks are facing.

Yeah man but that's like telling me what is a turkey's opinion about the thanksgiving menu.
Anyway screw it, too much talk about the refs gets tiresome

[soxfan2003]

Giannis gets favorable calls and the benefit of the doubt more often than not. You could even see it in this series. The refs were hesitant to put Giannis in foul trouble. They even wrongly assigned fouls to his teammates to prevent it. Superstar treatment is real.

Guys like Tatum and Jaylen don't get the same treatment. If they did, Jaylen wouldn't have gotten that 5th foul lasy game. The review would have been in his favor.

Yeah...and nah, mostly nah. You can't really compare the whistle that Giannis gets with what other people do, simply because nobody *can* actually do what he does. Nobody is even trying. People don't intentionally drive in traffic in the paint all night to actively seek contact to see what happens.

And if you do compare you'll sometimes find the opposite as well. For example JB pushes off with his off arm fully stretched, which is fine, every-single-guard does it. If Giannis does it though, because his frigging arm is so huge and strong the defender goes flying and it gets called. So he has to be extra careful with some stuff compared to other people.

Now if you want to talk about the travelling and carrying that Giannis does, all I can tell you is it's the NBA, you have to be a total idiot NOT to carry and travel, I mean look at this thing here:

Read on Twitter

?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May

That's the NBA, if you *don't* do it you are actively putting yourself at a disadvantage compared to pretty much everybody else.

Giannis literally dribbles differently with the National team, watch any FIBA game and you'll see it. He's not an idiot, when he plays in the NBA he does what NBA players do.

Tatum & Brown out here whomping people on push offs & they don't get star deference? Brown hammered Wes Matthews on a screen last night, was like a bí slap.

Giannis is treated better than anyone I have seen in the postseason in a very long time (Wade in NBA finals vs Mavs got away with too much as well) while the Celtics players are treated for the most part like nobodies. I want everyone treated like nobodies in postseason especially.

Obviously both teams have had numerous players not get calls they deserve. I'd be the first to admit that but I think the only consistent pattern in the series is Giannis getting away with too much. Mostly his offensive fouls for running into players who have defensive position not being called bother me but he has also gotten away with stuff on defense(fouls and goaltending).

I tend to agree that Tatum/Brown push off more than the Bucks players especially considering Middleton isn't playing but obviously both teams and all NBA teams have players on offense pushing off every damn game. Pushing off has become like traveling/carrying, it is just accepted league wide by most refs/fans. Not many Celtics fans complained about Holiday pushing off vs Tatum since they realize pushing off is done by Tatum/Brown and virtually every perimeter 1 on 1 scorer in the league. It's an epidemic in the league only surpassed by the flopping epidemic and refs not calling enough charges when defensive players don't flop. The league has pretty much decided to allow most push offs which I strongly disagree with since once they do that it becomes hard to police/draw the line and makes refereeing tougher.

If Bucks fans suggest the Celtics are a top 5 team in terms of flopping, I will agree with them since I can't imagine more than 4 other teams more committed to flopping or trying to sell calls. But what I will counter is that in this league if you are willing to get in front of the offensive player to take a charge or just hold position, quite often you won't get the call if you don't flop. Plenty of plays, Celtics players are fouled vs the very physical Bucks with no call. And in fairness to even Marcus Smart, he rarely tries to pull the stuff that Chris Paul does on a routine basis... Paul is like an evil basketball genius with the stuff he tries to get away with.

[soxfan2003]

Giannis gets favorable calls and the benefit of the doubt more often than not. You could even see it in this series. The refs were hesitant to put Giannis in foul trouble. They even wrongly assigned fouls to his teammates to prevent it. Superstar treatment is real.

Guys like Tatum and Jaylen don't get the same treatment. If they did, Jaylen wouldn't have gotten that 5th foul lasy game. The review would have been in his favor.

Yeah...and nah, mostly nah. You can't really compare the whistle that Giannis gets with what other people do, simply because nobody *can* actually do what he does. Nobody is even trying. People don't intentionally drive in traffic in the paint all night to actively seek contact to see what happens on the average.

And if you do compare you'll sometimes find the opposite as well. For example JB pushes off with his off arm fully stretched, which is illegal but fine, every-single-guard does it. If Giannis does it though, because his frigging arm is so huge and strong the defender goes flying and it gets called. So he has to be extra careful with some stuff compared to other people. What you are watching is basically a steamroller running on eggshels.

Now if you want to talk about the travelling and carrying that Giannis does, all I can tell you is it's the NBA, you have to be a total idiot NOT to carry and travel, I mean look at this thing here:

Read on Twitter

If you are the main ballhandler for an NBA team and you *don't* do it, you are actively putting yourself at a disadvantage compared to pretty much everybody else.

Giannis literally dribbles differently with the National team, watch any FIBA game and you'll see it. He's not an idiot, when he plays in the NBA he does what NBA players do.

Using too much force is warranted for an offensive foul. Giannis gets away with so much more force than your average perimeter player. You can't even say he's holding back with how physical he is on both sides of the ball. It doesn't matter how strong Giannis is. It's illegal for an offensive player to use his off arm or shoulders to dislodge a defender. Both Celtics and Suns fans are vocal of how excessive it can be and how it's not called the same way for the team the Bucks are facing.

Off arm pushoffs are a topic I'd like to extrapolate. Both Jays do get called for pushing off. Sometimes they'll get away with it, but a good portion of the time they will use the proper legal armbar. Giannis, however, is always going 100 mph so some his off arms end up being strikes instead of keeping off the defender. While it is hard for the refs to get it right every time, the ones they miss look so egregious.

It's not even myth thay superstars get treated differently. The refs have admitted that they default to giving the superstar the benefit of the doubt.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

There should be no proper legal arm bar especially when players are trying to score but I do agree with you that a legal or illegal Giannis push off is more consequential than a legal or illegal Tatum one. And a Tatum push off is more consequential than the pushoff of a weaker player than Tatum.

Maybe in part I am really against pushing off in all forms to setup scoring since I damn well know if I used pushing off at a lower level, it would have raised my game in comparison to my competitors a lot. Pound for pound, in terms of upper body strength, I was stronger than virtually everyone that I ever played against who was under 6 ft until I got to college and played 1 on 1 vs a few kids literally built like tanks that matched my strength. I only pushed off once in a court of basketball in my entire life to protect myself from a dirty play attempting to probably injure me and admittedly it was with 2 hands but the person I was playing with was launched into the air more than I thought humanly possible by me. Based upon this experience, I kind of have some appreciation of the force in which Giannis could be using even with 1 hand when he pushes off. A person with very long arms benching even just 225 pounds is stronger with more leverage than I was benching over 300 while weighing around 155 lbs. That isn't even factoring in Giannis speed.

I can only imagine Shaq running full speed while carrying the ball and pushing off. Just absurd and make a mockery of the game.

[Coach Carter]

Team that wins game 4, wins this series, oh wait...

[ballup]

Both Celtics and Suns fans are vocal of how excessive it can be and how it's not called the same way for the team the Bucks are facing.

Yeah man but that's like telling me what is a turkey's opinion about the thanksgiving menu.
Anyway screw it, too much talk about the refs gets tiresome

With statements like this, don't be surprised when no one believes or cares about your future claims as a victim.

Be a fan of your team all you want, don't try to talk down on other teams fans if you can't back up your talk. Actually, don't talk down on others at all who don't throw the first stone. A bit of respect goes a long way

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[ballup]

Yeah...and nah, mostly nah. You can't really compare the whistle that Giannis gets with what other people do, simply because nobody *can* actually do what he does. Nobody is even trying. People don't intentionally drive in traffic in the paint all night to actively seek contact to see what happens on the average.

And if you do compare you'll sometimes find the opposite as well. For example JB pushes off with his off arm fully stretched, which is illegal but fine, every-single-guard does it. If Giannis does it though, because his frigging arm is so huge and strong the defender goes flying and it gets called. So he has to be extra careful with some stuff compared to other people. What you are watching is basically a steamroller running on eggshels.

Now if you want to talk about the travelling and carrying that Giannis does, all I can tell you is it's the NBA, you have to be a total idiot NOT to carry and travel, I mean look at this thing here:

Read on Twitter

If you are the main ballhandler for an NBA team and you *don't* do it, you are actively putting yourself at a disadvantage compared to pretty much everybody else.

Giannis literally dribbles differently with the National team, watch any FIBA game and you'll see it. He's not an idiot, when he plays in the NBA he does what NBA players do.

Using too much force is warranted for an offensive foul. Giannis gets away with so much more force than your average perimeter player. You can't even say he's holding back with how physical he is on both sides of the ball. It doesn't matter how strong Giannis is. It's illegal for an offensive player to use his off arm or shoulders to dislodge a defender. Both Celtics and Suns fans are vocal of how excessive it can be and how it's not called the same way for the team the Bucks are facing.

Off arm pushoffs are a topic I'd like to extrapolate. Both Jays do get called for pushing off. Sometimes they'll get away with it, but a good portion of the time they will use the proper legal armbar. Giannis, however, is always going 100 mph so some his off arms end up being strikes instead of keeping off the defender. While it is hard for the refs to get it right every time, the ones they miss look so egregious.

It's not even myth thay superstars get treated differently. The refs have admitted that they default to giving the superstar the benefit of the doubt.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

There should be no proper legal arm bar especially when players are trying to score but I do agree with you that a legal or illegal Giannis push off is more consequential than a legal or illegal Tatum one. And a Tatum push off is more consequential than the pushoff of a weaker player than Tatum.

Maybe in part I am really against pushing off in all forms to setup scoring since I damn well know if I used pushing off at a lower level, it would have raised my game in comparison to my competitors a lot. Pound for pound, in terms of upper body strength, I was stronger than virtually everyone that I ever played against who was under 6 ft until I got to college and played 1 on 1 vs a few kids literally built like tanks that matched my strength. I only pushed off once in a court of basketball in my entire life to protect myself from a dirty play attempting to probably injure me and admittedly it was with 2 hands but the person I was playing with was launched into the air more than I thought humanly possible by me. Based upon this experience, I kind of have some appreciation of the force in which Giannis could be using even with 1 hand when he pushes off. A person with very long arms benching even just 225 pounds is stronger with more leverage than I was benching over 300 while weighing around 155 lbs. That isn't even factoring in Giannis speed.

I can only imagine Shaq running full speed while carrying the ball and pushing off. Just absurd and make a mockery of the game.

The armbar should exist. It's a great spacing tool when done correctly, but it does have its limitations. I do agree that the magnitudes of a push off can be difficult for a person to measure in real time and an outright ban would make refs jobs easier. Generally the refs do a decent job of calling out push offs.

Equalizing calls are a much bigger issue for the state of reffing. There should not be any superstar calls or rookie calls. Refs have too close relationships with players. It sounds cold hearted, but it's ridiculous some players get more leeway and others have shorter leashes. Haven't we all seen Draymond throw absolute tantrums after a call and nothing happens to him? Compared to some players who get T'd for simply running away after a call



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[chrisab123]

Not getting Scott Foster tonight is massive for Boston. Huge.