Highest reasonable ranking for Moses Malone?

[ceiling raiser]

The guy has 3 MVPs and is considered an afterthought in conversations of the all-time great centers and legends of the game.

There are some questions about him certainly, but I do wonder if he's penalized for just being "pretty good" at certain aspects of the game. Given, he was not a good passer, but was he that much worse than Hakeem or Dirk?

Some thoughts:

• Defense - guy was a terrific man defender (ask Kareem), one of the strongest players under 7ft ever, and was mobile enough to cover ground.
• Rebounding - I don't think we can throw his offensive rebounding completely out the window...if we did, why are we rating Shaq highly at all?
• Skillset - Guy taught Hakeem most of his moves. This is not a pure power player, there was a ton of finesse in Moses's offensive repertoire.

I think if he wins the 81 title over Bird, he's viewed as almost a consensus top 10 player pre-LeBron.

[Colbinii]

I've seen him as 7th or 8th and it is reasonable if you believe he was...

1) Equal to or greater than Kareem from 1979 onwards

2) Believe he was still high-imoact through the 1980s

I personally have him between 21-25 but often see him between 15-25.

One of the players whose ceiling and floor in an all-time sense is extremely large.

[asindc]

I’m glad to see this thread, as I have been consistently saying that Moses is criminally underrated on these messages, the only place I know of where that is true. I think you can go as high as 8 or 9 before it gets unreasonable. Truly an elite difference maker during his prime and the best rebounder in history.

[migya]

Totally underrated. His peak is better than most in history and against great opposition. He has a different style than most but his energy and effort are near unmatched. His longevity is good and spans over ten years at similar level, better than others in the top 20 lists here.

The more I look at it, the more foul drawing ability is valuable and is an important part of a player's offense. Moses has that like
Robinson and Malone.

[No-more-rings]

I can’t see him going higher than 16 or 17.

[Cavsfansince84]

Something like 15 for me. In which case you'd have to be reasonably high on his defense and post 83 years.

[Blazers-1977]

I would say somewhere from 18-20 as imo Power Forwards like Garnett and Malone were better and SG like West and Wade. He is around the same level as Dirk Imo

[wojoaderge]

I have him 12th

[70sFan]

I can see him inside top 15 personally, although I do have him a bit lower. I think his whole career past 1985 requires reevaluation, because some people think that he stopped being good player after that which I wouldn't agree with at all. He seemed to have very big impact on Bullets team and was still valuable in Atlanta.

[migya]

A video on Moses Malone

Watch on YouTube

[migya]

A nice video showing old man 15 years into his career Moses outplaying young prime Olajuwon. Moses drew so many fouls, it changed the game so much.

Watch on YouTube

[70sFan]

A nice video showing old man 15 years into his career Moses outplaying young prime Olajuwon. Moses drew so many fouls, it changed the game so much.

Watch on YouTube

Yeah, Moses was a great flopper. One of the best ever at that

[Jaivl]

Probably 12ish. Although, like Dirk at #8, it would require some assumptions I don't agree with.

[migya]

A nice video showing old man 15 years into his career Moses outplaying young prime Olajuwon. Moses drew so many fouls, it changed the game so much.

Watch on YouTube

Yeah, Moses was a great flopper. One of the best ever at that

He got hammered alot.

[70sFan]

A nice video showing old man 15 years into his career Moses outplaying young prime Olajuwon. Moses drew so many fouls, it changed the game so much.

Watch on YouTube

Yeah, Moses was a great flopper. One of the best ever at that

He got hammered alot.

He did, but he also flopped a lot. Especially on the board, he loved going under defender, tanglng with him and exaggarating the contact to death. It's this veteran move he had even when he wasn't veteran and it was a nightmare for opponents because he could foul out entire frontcourts that way. He also flopped without the ball trying to etablish deep position down low.

Being very physical doesn't reject the possibility of flopping.

[Dutchball97]

I have him in the back end of the top 20 although he'll likely fall out of it in the near future, if not already. I could see decent arguments for him to be hogher up though. Top 10 you're definitely pushing it but he could be one of the first names right outside it and I wouldn't think it was unreasonable.

[TrueLAfan]

He’s arguably in the set of players in that 7-14 group, more often placed 15-25. I’ve got him around #20. Great player.

I’ve said this several times in different threads. Moses was/is, in many ways, the greatest role player of all time. You couldn’t run an offense through him. He was not a great outlet passer. He rarely moved out of the key to double, or defend perimeter shooters (one reason why Jack Sikma was a super nemesis for Moses). He was a poor ballhandler and didn't have the greatest hands when it came to catching passes. But what he did was both simple and staggeringly effective. He was the ultimate garbage man. He was an amazing offensive rebounder and got a ton of points there. He often got fouled down there as well, resulting in lots and lots of free throws—and he was an excellent FT shooter for a big man. As long as he didn’t put the ball on the court often or much, he had a nice spin move and pretty good drop step down low (which drew more fouls)—and since he was down low all the time, it was that much more effective. I don’t buy the strength argument of Moses; I think Moses was simply relentless. As his motor wore down in the mid-80s, his value dropped—but he’d had a ton of great years before that. He cleaned the boards and got a ton of points on high efficiency and you didn't need to do a damn thing as a team for that to happen.

But it’s hard to build a team around a guy like that. Yes, Houston made a finals with Moses in the pivot—but Houston was, by and large, a mediocre, sometimes underperforming team. You had to build a team around Moses as opposed to with him. The Rockets never really got that. The Sixers were the ultimate team for him; they were a complete team when Moses got on board. Their outstanding team defense allowed Moses to stay down low; the peripheral ball movement and shooting made his cleanup job more efficient and easier. Like I said, he was the ultimate role player—and plenty valuable.

[asindc]

He’s arguably in the set of players in that 7-14 group, more often placed 15-25. I’ve got him around #20. Great player.

I’ve said this several times in different threads. Moses was/is, in many ways, the greatest role player of all time. You couldn’t run an offense through him. He was not a great outlet passer. He rarely moved out of the key to double, or defend perimeter shooters (one reason why Jack Sikma was a super nemesis for Moses). He was a poor ballhandler and didn't have the greatest hands when it came to catching passes. But what he did was both simple and staggeringly effective. He was the ultimate garbage man. He was an amazing offensive rebounder and got a ton of points there. He often got fouled down there as well, resulting in lots and lots of free throws—and he was an excellent FT shooter for a big man. As long as he didn’t put the ball on the court often or much, he had a nice spin move and pretty good drop step down low (which drew more fouls)—and since he was down low all the time, it was that much more effective. I don’t buy the strength argument of Moses; I think Moses was simply relentless. As his motor wore down in the mid-80s, his value dropped—but he’d had a ton of great years before that. He cleaned the boards and got a ton of points on high efficiency and you didn't need to do a damn thing as a team for that to happen.

But it’s hard to build a team around a guy like that. Yes, Houston made a finals with Moses in the pivot—but Houston was, by and large, a mediocre, sometimes underperforming team. You had to build a team around Moses as opposed to with him. The Rockets never really got that. The Sixers were the ultimate team for him; they were a complete team when Moses got on board. Their outstanding team defense allowed Moses to stay down low; the peripheral ball movement and shooting made his cleanup job more efficient and easier. Like I said, he was the ultimate role player—and plenty valuable.

Good assessment, though I would add that Moses occasionally popped out to the high post to shoot elbow jumpers or allow the wings space to drive. He didn’t do it often, I suspect because he couldn’t pass effectively enough out of the high post.

[70sFan]

He’s arguably in the set of players in that 7-14 group, more often placed 15-25. I’ve got him around #20. Great player.

I’ve said this several times in different threads. Moses was/is, in many ways, the greatest role player of all time. You couldn’t run an offense through him. He was not a great outlet passer. He rarely moved out of the key to double, or defend perimeter shooters (one reason why Jack Sikma was a super nemesis for Moses). He was a poor ballhandler and didn't have the greatest hands when it came to catching passes. But what he did was both simple and staggeringly effective. He was the ultimate garbage man. He was an amazing offensive rebounder and got a ton of points there. He often got fouled down there as well, resulting in lots and lots of free throws—and he was an excellent FT shooter for a big man. As long as he didn’t put the ball on the court often or much, he had a nice spin move and pretty good drop step down low (which drew more fouls)—and since he was down low all the time, it was that much more effective. I don’t buy the strength argument of Moses; I think Moses was simply relentless. As his motor wore down in the mid-80s, his value dropped—but he’d had a ton of great years before that. He cleaned the boards and got a ton of points on high efficiency and you didn't need to do a damn thing as a team for that to happen.

But it’s hard to build a team around a guy like that. Yes, Houston made a finals with Moses in the pivot—but Houston was, by and large, a mediocre, sometimes underperforming team. You had to build a team around Moses as opposed to with him. The Rockets never really got that. The Sixers were the ultimate team for him; they were a complete team when Moses got on board. Their outstanding team defense allowed Moses to stay down low; the peripheral ball movement and shooting made his cleanup job more efficient and easier. Like I said, he was the ultimate role player—and plenty valuable.

I think you underrate Moses self-creation ability a little bit here. I wouldn't agree that Moses was the garbage man, you can't score 30+ppg this way. I actually tracked a lot of Moses games last year and he scored around 6-7 ppg from putbacks, which is absurdly high but only around 25% of his total points.

You also sell his low post repertoire short - he had much more than just a dropstep. He mastered the fadeaway to the baseline, but he could make it from either shoulder. He could also attack you from faceup position and his handles weren't that horrible - he could beat your center off the dribble just fine.

[migya]

He’s arguably in the set of players in that 7-14 group, more often placed 15-25. I’ve got him around #20. Great player.

I’ve said this several times in different threads. Moses was/is, in many ways, the greatest role player of all time. You couldn’t run an offense through him. He was not a great outlet passer. He rarely moved out of the key to double, or defend perimeter shooters (one reason why Jack Sikma was a super nemesis for Moses). He was a poor ballhandler and didn't have the greatest hands when it came to catching passes. But what he did was both simple and staggeringly effective. He was the ultimate garbage man. He was an amazing offensive rebounder and got a ton of points there. He often got fouled down there as well, resulting in lots and lots of free throws—and he was an excellent FT shooter for a big man. As long as he didn’t put the ball on the court often or much, he had a nice spin move and pretty good drop step down low (which drew more fouls)—and since he was down low all the time, it was that much more effective. I don’t buy the strength argument of Moses; I think Moses was simply relentless. As his motor wore down in the mid-80s, his value dropped—but he’d had a ton of great years before that. He cleaned the boards and got a ton of points on high efficiency and you didn't need to do a damn thing as a team for that to happen.

But it’s hard to build a team around a guy like that. Yes, Houston made a finals with Moses in the pivot—but Houston was, by and large, a mediocre, sometimes underperforming team. You had to build a team around Moses as opposed to with him. The Rockets never really got that. The Sixers were the ultimate team for him; they were a complete team when Moses got on board. Their outstanding team defense allowed Moses to stay down low; the peripheral ball movement and shooting made his cleanup job more efficient and easier. Like I said, he was the ultimate role player—and plenty valuable.

I think you underrate Moses self-creation ability a little bit here. I wouldn't agree that Moses was the garbage man, you can't score 30+ppg this way. I actually tracked a lot of Moses games last year and he scored around 6-7 ppg from putbacks, which is absurdly high but only around 25% of his total points.

You also sell his low post repertoire short - he had much more than just a dropstep. He mastered the fadeaway to the baseline, but he could make it from either shoulder. He could also attack you from faceup position and his handles weren't that horrible - he could beat your center off the dribble just fine.

One of the fastest Centers and took it to the basket nett than most star bigs. People need to watch games of him and they'll see how hard to stop he was.