2022 Offseason

Post #1 » by **VCfor3** » Sun May 15, 2022 6:05 pm

Well I guess it is time to transition to the offseason. This could be a super eventful offseason for us or a totally boring one and there is no way to tell which is more likely at this time.

Grizz post-mortem thread on the General Board: https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2192682&start=40

2022 Draft Picks: 22, 29

Free agents: Tyus and Anderson

Some offseason questions:
We have so many potential paths we can take this summer that it is hard to know what Memphis may do, especially since a lot also depends on other teams.

-Does a young star shake loose that can pair well with Ja? Utah seems like a potential candidate to move a young star in Mitchell, but I don't know if Ja and Mitchell can survive on defense enough to make it worth offering what it would take to get a deal done. I'm not sure who else may shake loose, but if someone moves someone interesting for Mitchell then maybe Memphis can jump in as a 3rd team. Do we take a big swing on Zion if somehow NOP and him can't come to terms on an extension?
-Does an older star shake loose that might fit our team? Memphis is young so using assets to get a star to help in the immediate may hurt the window later when our core is in their prime, but also you never know what will happen and if we think this team can contend with the right help we should strongly consider it. Is Gobert that guy if Utah tries to break up the Mitchell/Gobert duo? Does someone else become available?
-Do we try to get a star via free agency? If we waive our cap holds we can get something like 20m in space. If we dump Adams we have enough space to go star hunting. Does LaVine consider Memphis? Does Beal? I think both guys stay with their teams either way, but would we want to pursue one of those two (or someone else) and pay them when we will have to pay our own guys soon?
-Does Tyus and/or Anderson get a large offer in free agency? I think we would be open to bringing both back, but only for a discount. Both guys were important for us but unless it is a really good contract that can be moved later, it could hinder us resigning other guys that are more important. Does Detroit offer Tyus a big 2-3 year deal? Can Memphis get him for MLE or less type money? Would Tyus prefer just a large one year deal to come back to Memphis and then try again next offseason to get a big deal?
-Do we move Brooks? He has been a huge part of our team being where it currently is and is seen as the emotional leader for us, but do we need to part ways in order for this team to reach their true potential? Can we find someone who can replace his defense? Could he fit a 6th man role for us? When Memphis is fully healthy, can he be okay as the 4th option on offense behind Ja, Bane, and hopefully JJJ? Is his value high enough to even warrant us considering moving him?
-What do we do in the draft? Do we draft two guys when we already have a potential roster crunch incoming? Do we try to move up in the draft using picks/players? Do we use those picks to trade for a vet? Do we try to move one or both of the picks for a future 1st/1sts in order to help conserve assets?
-Is JJJ a center long term? A PF? Forever both? Our lineups with Clarke and JJJ were great, but JJJ at center led to him fouling at a 40% higher rate which is lolz bad for the guy who couldn't play most of the Minny series due to fouls. Do we just leave him long term at PF and find a center to pair with him? JJJ as a free safety is a force on defense, but putting a center next to him may hurt our spacing. JJJ as a spacing center is such an amazing piece if it can truly happen. The next question in this line of thought is who do we try to target to pair with JJJ both short term and long term. Is Clarke the PF option when JJJ is at center? It has historically been a good pairing. Do we just keep Adams around for a while or target his eventual replacement soon as the center option next to JJJ?
-Do we extend anyone? Clarke is eligible for a rookie extension. Brooks is extension eligible as well. Do we extend one or both? Technically Adams can get an extension too.
-Do we just run it back? The West is only getting tougher especially with Zion, the LAC guys, and DEN guys hopefully being healthy all next year, but we did just end up 2nd in the conference. You can talk yourself into a healthy Ja, healthy Bane, and Covid-free Adams being enough to get past the Warriors and potentially further. Do you just keep the team intact and gamble internal improvement leads to eventual contention?
-Do we try to do something with Melton? He was inconsistent in the playoffs and Jenkins doesn't seem to give him the same level of trust he gives almost everyone else, but Melton is an advanced stats darling and lovingly known as "Mr. Do Something" by fans as he just makes winning plays. He is an important part of our bench, but if he isn't Jenkins' guy then do we consider moving him? There is a real chance he figures things out and becomes a quality starter-level player. Do we want to give that up? Is someone else willing to give us enough value to be worth it?

Post #2 » by **VCfor3** » Sun May 15, 2022 9:15 pm

Exit interviews with the media:
-Ja might have tested his knee out in order to see if he could play had we forced a Game 7. Seems the injury is indeed just a bone bruise and something he should be able to easily recover from
-Pera is willing to pay the tax for a contender
-Jaren to work on offensive creation off the dribble and in the post this offseason
-Ja loves Memphis and is likely signing a max extension
-Tyus and Anderson may not be back
-Seems like Tyus may leave if he is given a starting spot somewhere
-Bane sounds like he may be taking Ziaire under his wing this offseason
-Bane wants to get better on ball to let Ja play off ball (and catch his breath lol). Also wants to study great shooters and start getting 10 good 3pt shots a game.
-Clarke will try to work on his 3pt shot this offseason
-Melton to work on ball handling
-Ziaire full of confidence. Will be in summer league. Wants to keep expanding his offense and hit the weight room to get bigger.

Spoiler:

Post #3 » by **jman3134** » Mon May 16, 2022 1:45 am

Seeing anything about speculation on Brooks leaving early? One reporter on my timeline mentioned it. A lot to do about nothing I am assuming....

Post #4 » by **VCfor3** » Mon May 16, 2022 2:08 am

jman3134 wrote:Seeing anything about speculation on Brooks leaving early? One reporter on my timeline mentioned it. A lot to do about nothing I am assuming....

So there were a few different players that didn't know the team was doing Exit interviews when they did so guys were leaving and the staff managed to catch most before they left but not Brooks. I think it was JJJ (but definitely someone of note if not him) who was heading out when someone grabbed him and pulled him straight into his exit interview ha. I wouldn't read a lot into it though I do think he is far from untouchable and could get moved this offseason.

Post #5 » by **jman3134** » Mon May 16, 2022 2:30 am

I understand that his teammates love him, so that is a huge consideration. And, he usually brings it on D. My question is whether or not we could even get much in return for him.

Read on Twitter

This is the tweet.

Post #6 » by **VCfor3** » Mon May 16, 2022 3:03 am

This is the reason I didn't worry too much about it. It is only speculation though.

Read on Twitter

Post #7 » by **VCfor3** » Mon May 16, 2022 3:29 am

Just trying to think through who may be somewhat available.

Potential Young Stars:
-Donovan Mitchell - 25y.o - Him and Gobert have seemingly clashed for a while and there was a report of Gobert basically saying "him or me". Mitchell would be another dynamic offensive player and opposing teams would likely be unable to stop both guys so would have to pick their poison on who to focus on. The problem would be defense similar to the Dame/CJ pairing. Both are subpar defenders and could be targeted come playoffs. JJJ to defend the paint helps provide some backline help, but it would still be rough.
-DeAndre Ayton - 23y.o - Ayton only played 17min that last playoff game and when Monty was asked about it he said "internal reasons" so things may not be too peachy. I don't see them not matching a max deal unless incentivized, but he may be available to some degree. He is mobile enough to be able to survive on the perimeter kind of like JJJ and if both were in the game you'd expect at least one to be in the paint to defend the basket at almost all times on defense.
-Miles Bridges - 24y.o - This one is a wild card seeing as I have no idea what Charlotte would match or if they'd be open to letting him go for a price. He was a stud to start the season and led the MIP discussion prior to cooling off and coming back down to earth. In theory he could be a good defender but that hasn't panned out yet. He also is JJJ's buddy.
-Zion Williamson - 21y.o - This is truly a long shot/wild card, but if NOP and Zion can't come to terms on his extension then maybe they would be open to moving him. It would be an expensive acquisition, and there are a TON of health concerns, but dude is a beast when playing. Defensive concerns for sure but pairing him with JJJ would help some with that.
-John Collins - 24y.o - Hear me out on this. I think that Atlanta is looking for a star to pair with Trae and that they don't see Collins as that. If Collins was a piece sent out in a different deal, maybe we could be a third team and take on Collins for different assets the other team would prefer in return. He would provide spacing and rebounding next to JJJ
-Collin Sexton - 23y.o - Here more for completeness sake than anything. He is super talented and would be awesome as a theoretical 6th man if we lost Tyus, but he'll be too expensive and I don't think he can play with Ja.

Post #8 » by **jman3134** » Mon May 16, 2022 6:50 am

VCfor3 wrote:This is the reason I didn't worry too much about it. It is only speculation though.

Read on Twitter

In context of what Dillon said to the Warriors post game etc, this speculation made 0 sense. In the context of all those statements, he fully expects/expected to be with the Grizzlies for a while.

Post #9 » by **jman3134** » Mon May 16, 2022 7:01 am

What are your thoughts on these names?
Jalen Brunson
Anfernee Simons

If we can't resign Tyus, I think Brunson is as good if not better and we could move to another 2 PG lineup. If we take too many steps back at backup PG, we may not be able to weather the storm as much if Ja is banged up.

Simons has really come along and is a pure shooter with great youth. I doubt the Blazers would give him up easily, but perhaps we could do a S&T with him for Brooks. I would put all my money into trying to sign Simons tbh. He is exactly what we are looking for to spend in free agency.

Post #10 » by **VCfor3** » Mon May 16, 2022 3:08 pm

jman3134 wrote:What are your thoughts on these names?
Jalen Brunson
Anfernee Simons

If we can't resign Tyus, I think Brunson is as good if not better and we could move to another 2 PG lineup. If we take too many steps back at backup PG, we may not be able to weather the storm as much if Ja is banged up.

Simons has really come along and is a pure shooter with great youth. I doubt the Blazers would give him up easily, but perhaps we could do a S&T with him for Brooks. I would put all my money into trying to sign Simons tbh. He is exactly what we are looking for to spend in free agency.

I think both wouldn't be good fits with Ja due to defensive concerns so would be backup PG for us. I'm guessing they get paid this offseason a lot more than we would want to pay for a back up so I don't expect us to target them.

Both are excellent players though. I just don't think the fit and salary make them great options for us.

Post #11 » by **VCfor3** » Mon May 16, 2022 4:15 pm

Notable Potential Free Agents:
-Zach LaVine - He made it sound like he will actually look around in free agency even though I think he stays with Chicago. Injuries are a concern, but he would be a big offensive boost. I think you maybe move Brooks to the bench if you did sign him. We'd have to dump Adams, but it is a potential option in order to add talent
-Bradley Beal - He may shake loose if Washington doesn't offer him a max deal, but I think they will. He looked pretty rough last year, but is a great offensive talent we could pair with Ja. Again we'd have to dump Adams.
-James Harden - Don't see him as someone we would be interested in, and I'd bet he stays with Philly, but he is technically a notable free agent
-Kyrie Irving - Not a fit with our team due to Ja and doesn't seem like a Memphis kind of guy, but again he is technically a notable free agent

Less Notable Potential Free Agents:
-Joe Ingles - He seems like he'd be a good locker room vet and a smart bench player.
-Gary Harris - He played well last year after a few subpar years in Denver. He may be someone to look into if we make other moves and could use some SG depth.
-Ricky Rubio - If we lose Tyus, Rubio may be an option if we can get him for cheap enough to serve as back up PG. May be more money than we want to commit to a non-starter, but a good backup PG given Ja's injuries is a smart investment if we can afford it.
-Jusuf Nurkic - He is a good center who could pair with JJJ, but pursuing him feels like something we wouldn't do unless we trade Adams in another deal.
-TJ Warren - Injuries are a huge concern, but he has had some awesome offensive stretches. If we make a big consolidation trade then he may be someone to target as a 6th man type who can shoot.
-Otto Porter Jr - Again just someone who could be a target if we do a consolidation trade and are looking for bench depth.

Post #12 » by **jman3134** » Mon May 16, 2022 4:24 pm

VCfor3 wrote:
jman3134 wrote:What are your thoughts on these names?
Jalen Brunson
Anfernee Simons

If we can't resign Tyus, I think Brunson is as good if not better and we could move to another 2 PG lineup. If we take too many steps back at backup PG, we may not be able to weather the storm as much if Ja is banged up.

Simons has really come along and is a pure shooter with great youth. I doubt the Blazers would give him up easily, but perhaps we could do a S&T with him for Brooks. I would put all my money into trying to sign Simons tbh. He is exactly what we are looking for to spend in free agency.

I think both wouldn't be good fits with Ja due to defensive concerns so would be backup PG for us. I'm guessing they get paid this offseason a lot more than we would want to pay for a back up so I don't expect us to target them.

Both are excellent players though. I just don't think the fit and salary make them great options for us.

I listed them because Kleiman said he would pay for the right guys. The first list of players were all max guys. I still think Simons is under the radar of most besides the Blazers.

Post #13 » by **VCfor3** » Mon May 16, 2022 5:32 pm

jman3134 wrote:
VCfor3 wrote:
jman3134 wrote:What are your thoughts on these names?
Jalen Brunson
Anfernee Simons

If we can't resign Tyus, I think Brunson is as good if not better and we could move to another 2 PG lineup. If we take too many steps back at backup PG, we may not be able to weather the storm as much if Ja is banged up.

Simons has really come along and is a pure shooter with great youth. I doubt the Blazers would give him up easily, but perhaps we could do a S&T with him for Brooks. I would put all my money into trying to sign Simons tbh. He is exactly what we are looking for to spend in free agency.

I think both wouldn't be good fits with Ja due to defensive concerns so would be backup PG for us. I'm guessing they get paid this offseason a lot more than we would want to pay for a back up so I don't expect us to target them.

Both are excellent players though. I just don't think the fit and salary make them great options for us.

I listed them because Kleiman said he would pay for the right guys. The first list of players were all max guys. I still think Simons is under the radar of most besides the Blazers.

My thought was that we have capable players at pretty much every position. We need to upgrade, but in order to do so we need top tier talent and usually that is a max guy. A second star is what I was hoping for. I think Brunson and Simons wouldn't be able to survive very well on defense with Ja and that their offense wouldn't compensate enough to make it worth it. So they would be backup PG/6th man types. I think out of Brunson, Simons, and Tyus, Tyus will be the cheapest and that the other two will make more money than we can afford to spend on a backup PG given the fact that we are about to pay Ja, Bane, and likely Clarke. So if we are looking for a backup PG I think we look at Tyus and see if he will give us either a discount or maybe even do a large one year deal in order for him to restest FA next offseason. Unless Tyus can be retained for MLE or less, I think our long term backup PG is likely someone we grab in the draft honestly.

psman2 · Post #14 » by **psman2** » Mon May 16, 2022 6:13 pm

I got Brunson getting somewhere in the neighborhood of a 4/100+ to stay with the Mavs. No way Cuban breaks up a squad that made it to the WCF or further. I have both of those guys as bad fits and too expensive for what they would add to our team.

Simons I think showed a enough this year that a team would take a gamble on him like Detroit. So I have Portland matching a 20m+ offer on him or working a SNT for an asset. Both of these guys would be 6th man role for us, Simons would have to be a trade more than likely with him being a RFA and Brunson would have to be a outright signing since I cannot see Cuban trading him. To sign Brunson we would have the waive our rights to both Anderson and Jones and lose the MLE, but gain the smaller room exception. But I cannot see Brunson coming here to be a backup/6th man when he is the 2nd "star" in Dallas and likely to get the same money if not more to stay.

psman2 · Post #15 » by **psman2** » Mon May 16, 2022 6:52 pm

Our FA shopping list is going to be very erratic since we could be going shopping with only the MLE or 40-50 million in cap if we move off of Adams and Melton. Plus a couple mid size TPEs from Jones and Anderson too maybe.

I think we will know if Beal or Lavine is likely to come here thru backchannels before the draft, and have a opportunity to make a pre-emptive salary dump if needed to a team like OKC that can still eat salary for the 2022 cap season and has ties to Adams and would likely welcome him back along with a shiny new draft pick. if not OKC then we we are limited to the handful of other teams with cap space that we would have to dump him to make the cap space for the big fish. OKC is in a unique situation that they have the cap only until this cap year expires, it a use it or lose it situation.

I think if we can land either guy simply by moving off of Adams/Melton and maybe a 1st then that is something we just do and figure out the fit with Bane. Bane as a sixth man for a year or two in a Vinny Johnson or Ginobili role with us playing a lot of small ball could be role he is open to if he is still getting his minutes and production and stays in line to get a huge contract in two years. Other option is to trade Bane(maybe with Brooks) for a better SF or PF option, just not sure who will be on the market that is worth moving Bane for. Could always trade him for future pick package but I think if we are signing a big FA we would rather have the value on the floor somehow.

As far as other some what likely stars that might be on the market...Dame, Mitchell, Gobert...I have none of them as great fits and either cost too much money/assets.

I like Collins as a decent player and target, but on defense he has been average to slightly below every year in the league for a PF/C. He is not poor but he is a lot closer to Tobias Harris level there than prime Siakam. But he does rebound well and can stretch the floor. I do think if we are committing to Clarke long term and he doesn't find his 3pt shot again then the 3rd main big in the rotation needs to stretch the floor.

From your Less Notable Potential Free Agents:
Warren: We need a bucket getter like him, so I would be for a MLE signing if it is short with a TO
Harris: IF we move off of Melton then I like him as a replacement, as of now though we don't have a big enough role for him to justify the signing.

Other MLE guys I like. Bamba, Jalen Smith, Bruce Brown, Hartenstein-not all mle(if we move off of Adams), Olidipo..maybe but I doubt he wants the money/role we would be offering. Boucher if Tor doesn't resign. DDV, ...split the MLE between the Martin brothers would be cool.

Dark Horse trade....If we get a TPE out of Anderson big enough and still have a need for a 4/5 that can shoot then I wouldn't mind bring in Olynyk for a season, he has a small buyout the following season that Det might give a 2nd to get off. Depending how the offseason shakes out I could see him complementing both JJJ/Clarke for 20-25 minutes a game.

Post #16 » by **VCfor3** » Mon May 16, 2022 7:45 pm

psman2 wrote:Our FA shopping list is going to be very erratic since we could be going shopping with only the MLE or 40-50 million in cap if we move off of Adams and Melton. Plus a couple mid size TPEs from Jones and Anderson too maybe.

I think we will know if Beal or Lavine is likely to come here thru backchannels before the draft, and have a opportunity to make a pre-emptive salary dump if needed to a team like OKC that can still eat salary for the 2022 cap season and has ties to Adams and would likely welcome him back along with a shiny new draft pick. if not OKC then we we are limited to the handful of other teams with cap space that we would have to dump him to make the cap space for the big fish. OKC is in a unique situation that they have the cap only until this cap year expires, it a use it or lose it situation.

I think if we can land either guy simply by moving off of Adams/Melton and maybe a 1st then that is something we just do and figure out the fit with Bane. Bane as a sixth man for a year or two in a Vinny Johnson or Ginobili role with us playing a lot of small ball could be role he is open to if he is still getting his minutes and production and stays in line to get a huge contract in two years. Other option is to trade Bane(maybe with Brooks) for a better SF or PF option, just not sure who will be on the market that is worth moving Bane for. Could always trade him for future pick package but I think if we are signing a big FA we would rather have the value on the floor somehow.

As far as other some what likely stars that might be on the market...Dame, Mitchell, Gobert...I have none of them as great fits and either cost too much money/assets.

I like Collins as a decent player and target, but on defense he has been average to slightly below every year in the league for a PF/C. He is not poor but he is a lot closer to Tobias Harris level there than prime Siakam. But he does rebound well and can stretch the floor. I do think if we are committing to Clarke long term and he doesn't find his 3pt shot again then the 3rd main big in the rotation needs to stretch the floor.

From your Less Notable Potential Free Agents:
Warren: We need a bucket getter like him, so I would be for a MLE signing if it is short with a TO
Harris: IF we move off of Melton then I like him as a replacement, as of now though we don't have a big enough role for him to justify the signing.

Other MLE guys I like. Bamba, Jalen Smith, Bruce Brown, Hartenstein-not all mle(if we move off of Adams), Olidipo..maybe but I doubt he wants the money/role we would be offering. Boucher if Tor doesn't resign. DDV, ...split the MLE between the Martin brothers would be cool.

Dark Horse trade....If we get a TPE out of Anderson big enough and still have a need for a 4/5 that can shoot then I wouldn't mind bring in Olynyk for a season, he has a small buyout the following season that Det might give a 2nd to get off. Depending how the offseason shakes out I could see him complementing both JJJ/Clarke for 20-25 minutes a game.

Yeah who we may look at in FA depends a ton on what all else happens. So I was mostly just making a list of a few guys who may matter later. I think we would keep Bane and at worst let him be backup PG for a little bit as opposed to moving him. We would have a lot of lineup flexibility with Ja/Bane/Brooks/LaVine or Beal/Ziaire. I'd use other assets for a decent center and then have Clarke, JJJ, and that center cover most of the frontcourt minutes with Tillman and maybe Aldama mixing in some in the regular season.

Yeah Collins would be the 4th guy if we landed him behind Ja, Bane, and JJJ. He is supposed to be okayish as a weak side rim protector but agree that overall his defense is a bit subpar. Helping with rebounding and spacing the floor would be the goal. I don't know if the is the best fit with JJJ or if we should try something different, but Collins is talented and may do well in a Harris-type role.

Post #17 » by **jman3134** » Mon May 16, 2022 9:27 pm

psman2 wrote:I got Brunson getting somewhere in the neighborhood of a 4/100+ to stay with the Mavs. No way Cuban breaks up a squad that made it to the WCF or further. I have both of those guys as bad fits and too expensive for what they would add to our team.

Simons I think showed a enough this year that a team would take a gamble on him like Detroit. So I have Portland matching a 20m+ offer on him or working a SNT for an asset. Both of these guys would be 6th man role for us, Simons would have to be a trade more than likely with him being a RFA and Brunson would have to be a outright signing since I cannot see Cuban trading him. To sign Brunson we would have the waive our rights to both Anderson and Jones and lose the MLE, but gain the smaller room exception. But I cannot see Brunson coming here to be a backup/6th man when he is the 2nd "star" in Dallas and likely to get the same money if not more to stay.

To be 100% clear, the Brunson suggestion was only if Tyus definitely leaves, and obviously is only if Cuban is willing to part with him. To me, the obvious choice is to bring Tyus back given that he is familiar with our system. If that is the market price for Brunson, then I agree that it is not an obvious fit. With that said, I think we cannot understate just how important the backup point guard position is for our team, given Ja's play style. Tyus was a huge part of the team's success when Ja was forced to miss games. The major issue is that this is one of the worst PG draft classes in recent memory. I do not see many long term fits in our draft range sans maybe Jean Montero, and his ball control is not what we need at the backup PG slot. We need someone who plays under control. So, taking into account the bigger picture, I think the backup PG slot is possibly our biggest need along with a lengthy defensive wing who can hit 3's, and who is versatile enough to play multiple positions.

Simons would start immediately for us imo. The reason I am mentioning his name is mainly because we need another guy who is able to create his own shot and I believe Simons is one of the most underrated young players in the NBA. Bane continues to develop and I love how his handle came along this year. Defensively, the lineups would have to switch up depending on the team, but I am pretty confident that our guys would be thrilled to add another offensive weapon along the perimeter.

Maybe what I am not understanding is why we would dump a ton of salary (and possibly much needed pieces) in order to take on a big contract of a vet who doesn't fit our contention window and is possibly ball dominant like a Bradley Beal. We saw what happened when the Lakers tried that with Russ Westbrook, though the reason that failed is because he can't shoot. Point being, if we are going to acquire a scorer who can create his own shot, we should be looking at a few younger players that can be a part of our long term strategy and conform to our offense (vs our offense conforming to their play style).

psman2 · Post #18 » by **psman2** » Tue May 17, 2022 12:38 am

jman3134 wrote:
psman2 wrote:I got Brunson getting somewhere in the neighborhood of a 4/100+ to stay with the Mavs. No way Cuban breaks up a squad that made it to the WCF or further. I have both of those guys as bad fits and too expensive for what they would add to our team.

Simons I think showed a enough this year that a team would take a gamble on him like Detroit. So I have Portland matching a 20m+ offer on him or working a SNT for an asset. Both of these guys would be 6th man role for us, Simons would have to be a trade more than likely with him being a RFA and Brunson would have to be a outright signing since I cannot see Cuban trading him. To sign Brunson we would have the waive our rights to both Anderson and Jones and lose the MLE, but gain the smaller room exception. But I cannot see Brunson coming here to be a backup/6th man when he is the 2nd "star" in Dallas and likely to get the same money if not more to stay.

To be 100% clear, the Brunson suggestion was only if Tyus definitely leaves, and obviously is only if Cuban is willing to part with him. To me, the obvious choice is to bring Tyus back given that he is familiar with our system. If that is the market price for Brunson, then I agree that it is not an obvious fit. With that said, I think we cannot understate just how important the backup point guard position is for our team, given Ja's play style. Tyus was a huge part of the team's success when Ja was forced to miss games. The major issue is that this is one of the worst PG draft classes in recent memory. I do not see many long term fits in our draft range sans maybe Jean Montero, and his ball control is not what we need at the backup PG slot. We need someone who plays under control. So, taking into account the bigger picture, I think the backup PG slot is possibly our biggest need along with a lengthy defensive wing who can hit 3's, and who is versatile enough to play multiple positions.

Simons would start immediately for us imo. The reason I am mentioning his name is mainly because we need another guy who is able to create his own shot and I believe Simons is one of the most underrated young players in the NBA. Bane continues to develop and I love how his handle came along this year. Defensively, the lineups would have to switch up depending on the team, but I am pretty confident that our guys would be thrilled to add another offensive weapon along the perimeter.

Maybe what I am not understanding is why we would dump a ton of salary (and possibly much needed pieces) in order to take on a big contract of a vet who doesn't fit our contention window and is possibly ball dominant like a Bradley Beal. We saw what happened when the Lakers tried that with Russ Westbrook, though the reason that failed is because he can't shoot. Point being, if we are going to acquire a scorer who can create his own shot, we should be looking at a few younger players that can be a part of our long term strategy and conform to our offense (vs our offense conforming to their play style).

I think bringing Tyus back on a 3/36 type of deal is fine, however I think he might get that same offer or bigger and an chance to start with another club. Now this other team my suck and so he would have to weigh being part of what is looking like a powerhouse in the west for the next 4-6 years in Memphis or being a starter on a current bottom dweller. I think a balloon overpayment one year deal could be a smart play too if we want to roll over our cap space.

I agree that we cannot start the season with a rookie scheduled to be the backup point, if Tyus walks we work it as a SNT to get a TPE out of it at least. Now we the TPE, MLE, Bi-annual, and maybe a rookie eventually to find a point. Should be enough mechanisms in place to find someone suitable if we lose Jones.

I don't have Simons good enough to send Bane to the bench, and I don't like the idea of Bane at SF for big stretches of the game. So for me Simons would be a very expensive 6th man that is going to cost assets for us to get Portland not to match to make it a SNT. I got Portland likely keeping him at all cost, he can work on a Dame team, or be part of a rebuild effort, so really no reason for Portland to let him walk unless maybe he gets a full max or another team is offering a bunch of assets...I don't want to be the other team here. Simons D by all accounts is bad, really bad. I just cannot see him coexisting with Ja unless we have prime Kawhi locking down the the SF spot.

Ball dominant is not a bad thing if you are a good player. WB hasn't been good for several years, and the Lakers didn't have the depth or personal to ever make it work. I thought that trade was a disaster as soon as it went down.... now I thought Lebron and AD given enough health would still get them in the playoffs/playins. I really don't see the parallels at all here. Just because the lakers traded for a former star that didn't work out doesn't have anything to do with if Lavine and Beal make sense for Memphis. Both have a long track record of good offensive production. Lavine just turned 27 and should have 5-6 years left in his prime, he lines up fine with our window. And he can play off the ball just fine. Beal (29) was actually better too playing off the ball. When he takes too much of the PG load it really seems to take his legs and shot out. I think he can thrive again playing off the Ball next to Ja. Now last season was a disaster for him on the court, but that Washington team was mismatched and dysfunctional, and he had some injuries too. But his previous 4-5 season he was a top 25ish player, and I think we to give him a long look if he is interested in coming here. Neither are perfect fits, but you have to take a long look at what is available when it is available. We are young enough to wait it out some, but also likely a victim of our own success and likely to push our cards into the middle a little faster than originally planned.

Post #19 » by **jman3134** » Tue May 17, 2022 5:24 am

psman2 wrote:
jman3134 wrote:
psman2 wrote:I got Brunson getting somewhere in the neighborhood of a 4/100+ to stay with the Mavs. No way Cuban breaks up a squad that made it to the WCF or further. I have both of those guys as bad fits and too expensive for what they would add to our team.

Simons I think showed a enough this year that a team would take a gamble on him like Detroit. So I have Portland matching a 20m+ offer on him or working a SNT for an asset. Both of these guys would be 6th man role for us, Simons would have to be a trade more than likely with him being a RFA and Brunson would have to be a outright signing since I cannot see Cuban trading him. To sign Brunson we would have the waive our rights to both Anderson and Jones and lose the MLE, but gain the smaller room exception. But I cannot see Brunson coming here to be a backup/6th man when he is the 2nd "star" in Dallas and likely to get the same money if not more to stay.

To be 100% clear, the Brunson suggestion was only if Tyus definitely leaves, and obviously is only if Cuban is willing to part with him. To me, the obvious choice is to bring Tyus back given that he is familiar with our system. If that is the market price for Brunson, then I agree that it is not an obvious fit. With that said, I think we cannot understate just how important the backup point guard position is for our team, given Ja's play style. Tyus was a huge part of the team's success when Ja was forced to miss games. The major issue is that this is one of the worst PG draft classes in recent memory. I do not see many long term fits in our draft range sans maybe Jean Montero, and his ball control is not what we need at the backup PG slot. We need someone who plays under control. So, taking into account the bigger picture, I think the backup PG slot is possibly our biggest need along with a lengthy defensive wing who can hit 3's, and who is versatile enough to play multiple positions.

Simons would start immediately for us imo. The reason I am mentioning his name is mainly because we need another guy who is able to create his own shot and I believe Simons is one of the most underrated young players in the NBA. Bane continues to develop and I love how his handle came along this year. Defensively, the lineups would have to switch up depending on the team, but I am pretty confident that our guys would be thrilled to add another offensive weapon along the perimeter.

Maybe what I am not understanding is why we would dump a ton of salary (and possibly much needed pieces) in order to take on a big contract of a vet who doesn't fit our contention window and is possibly ball dominant like a Bradley Beal. We saw what happened when the Lakers tried that with Russ Westbrook, though the reason that failed is because he can't shoot. Point being, if we are going to acquire a scorer who can create his own shot, we should be looking at a few younger players that can be a part of our long term strategy and conform to our offense (vs our offense conforming to their play style).

I think bringing Tyus back on a 3/36 type of deal is fine, however I think he might get that same offer or bigger and an chance to start with another club. Now this other team my suck and so he would have to weigh being part of what is looking like a powerhouse in the west for the next 4-6 years in Memphis or being a starter on a current bottom dweller. I think a balloon overpayment one year deal could be a smart play too if we want to roll over our cap space.

I agree that we cannot start the season with a rookie scheduled to be the backup point, if Tyus walks we work it as a SNT to get a TPE out of it at least. Now we the TPE, MLE, Bi-annual, and maybe a rookie eventually to find a point. Should be enough mechanisms in place to find someone suitable in we lose Jones.

I don't have Simons good enough to send Bane to the bench, and I don't like the idea of Bane at SF for big stretches of the game. So for me Simons would be a very expensive 6th man that is going to cost assets for us to get Portland not to match to make it a SNT. I got Portland likely keeping him at all cost, he can work on a Dame team, or be part of a rebuild effort, so really no reason for Portland to let him walk unless maybe he gets a full max or another team is offering a bunch of assets...I don't want to be the other team here. Simons D by all accounts is bad, really bad. I just cannot see him coexisting with Ja unless we have prime Kawhi locking down the the SF spot.

Ball dominant is not a bad thing if you are a good player. WB hasn't been good for several years, and the Lakers didn't have the depth or personal to ever make it work. I thought that trade was a disaster as soon as it went down.... now I thought Lebron and AD given enough health would still get them in the playoffs/playins. I really don't see the parallels at all here. Just because the lakers traded for a former star that didn't work out doesn't have anything to do with if Lavine and Beal make sense for Memphis. Both have a long track record of good offensive production. Lavine just turned 27 and should have 5-6 years left in his prime, he lines up fine with our window. And he can play off the ball just fine. Beal (29) was actually better too playing off the ball. When he takes too much of the PG load it really seems to take his legs and shot out. I think he can thrive again playing off the Ball next to Ja. Now last season was a disaster for him on the court, but that Washington team was mismatched and dysfunctional, and he had some injuries too. But his previous 4-5 season he was a top 25ish player, and I think we to give him a long look if he is interested in coming here. Neither are perfect fits, but you have to take a long look at what is available when it is available. We are young enough to wait it out some, but also likely a victim of our own success and likely to push our cards into the middle a little faster than originally planned.

I am pretty certain that Tyus and/or Brunson are going to fetch more than 3/36. I agree with you on the balloon payment structure of such a deal. To your suggestion about utilizing a "TPE, MLE, Bi-annual, and maybe a rookie eventually to find a point", my question then is who are we going to target? We can say that we will find someone suitable, but the important part is going to be ball control, which I suspect is a major reason why we somehow had a better lineup without Ja at times this past season. We likely aren't going to find a replacement in the ballpark of a 6.4-to-1 A/TO ratio, which is what Tyus brought this year. Brunson is my best guess for a suitable replacement. There isn't that much out there and teams are going to be bidding up PG values this offseason across the board. Even in a S&T, I can't think of a potential example I might like that a team would be willing to part with. Jordan McLaughlin?

As for Simons, he and Bane are bringing different things to the table and you can play them together synergistically. An addition of Simons would also take away from the loss of Tyus, if that were to happen. A major hole I noticed late in games when Ja was playing is that our offense lacked another player with the ability to create his own shot, particularly out of pick and roll. The static nature of our halfcourt offense late in playoff games when Ja is operating is mainly because we don't have players that can functionally create their own offense out of pick and roll. Adding a 2nd pick and roll offensive weapon is thus a top priority imo.

Bane noted this already and stated that this is an area he is looking to improve on in the offseason.
"The next step is finding ways to threaten defenses off a live dribble from distances that really leave defenses vulnerable. “I shoot some out of pick-and-rolls now, but like Dame Lillard and those guys, the volume that they create being able to shoot deep threes and threes out of pick-and-roll, I mean, it changes the game for everybody,” he says. 'Now the big has to come up the floor and you’re playing 4-on-3 if you’re not taking the shot.'"
https://www.si.com/nba/2022/05/06/memphis-grizzlies-desmond-bane-daily-cover

How does Simons address this? Well, he has one of the highest offensive efficiencies operating in the P&R game in the league (1.04), at one point second only to Donovan Mitchell in players with 4 such attempts per game. I don't have NBA synergy, so I can't update this number, but it is clear from watching the tape that he is dynamic as a P&R option, which works well synergistically with both Ja (who is another uber efficient P&R player) and Bane, whose 3pt threat prevents defenses from collapsing down. It is a pick your poison type of thing. We have worked with Tyus Jones (6'0)/Ja Morant (6'3) lineups before, so I do not think that this is completely out of the question. If you drop coverage Simons, you leave open one of the most efficient midrange scorers in the game. If you press him, he will dump it off to the roll man with ease. He has a really reliable floater in his arsenal, and he is only 22 years old! The crazy part to me is where this guy is headed in terms of improvements. He needs to be a better finisher at the rim and improve as a one on one scorer (he's only averaging around 3 FTA per 48 mins, which portends another major leap forward given that he can handle). What better player to practice against everyday than arguably the most versatile one on one player in the league in Ja Morant? If he picks up any of his rim finishing tendencies, an area where he is extremely lackluster despite good athleticism, this guy is going to be a multiple time allstar.

What is the reason for our defensive efficiency with Ja out of the lineup? It is simply due to ball control preventing run outs. As our offensive efficiency increases with Ja getting easy layups at the rim, so too do our turnovers. It isn't as much that Ja is inept guarding in the halfcourt necessarily, though his closeouts at times leave a bit to be desired. So we bring in one of the best P&R scorers in the NBA at age 22, who can function without Ja in the lineup, and suddenly our offense looks a lot more versatile. Playing them together, Ja can settle in and exert more effort defensively because he is not expending maximal energy every trip down the floor on offense. This is a game changer for us and would help us increase our JJJ usage with Ja in the lineup (without even having to increase chemistry between the two).

Why did I bring up RW? It is because time and again general managers and players seem to think that ball dominant players can "make it work" synergistically with three ball dominant players. There is only one ball though. I don't think that Beal-Westbrook comparison is valid beyond the fact that it might tinker with our team chemistry to have a vet come in and think he's getting X amount of shots per game. Beal's usage was over 30% last year, as was Ja's. Simons is around 25% and he is younger, probably wouldn't take up quite 30% of our cap. If Beal falls off at 31/32, as we have seen with a few guys in the NBA, his trade value will plummet, especially at this salary level. Simons' trade value only increases as an asset at age 22. What young player wouldn't want to play for the young Grizz with our excellent culture? Adding a vet with the brand name of a Beal changes the culture substantially, not to mention taking like 30% of the salary cap.

Lavine is a great fit with the Grizz, and fits into the "lengthy defensive wing that can hit 3's" category. Tbh, I would love to secure some complementary weapons in the draft, but I think it is going to be hard to move into the top 10 in each of the next few drafts. We can get something great late 1st here, as much of this draft class is being misevaluated imo, at least as it stands now.

Post #20 » by **jman3134** » Tue May 17, 2022 5:32 am

Also, to be clear, we should not under any circumstances trade Bane nor even consider doing so. A shooter of his caliber is extremely rare and coveted in today's NBA.