Post-Mortem: 2021-22 Phoenix Suns

[enigmatics]

They didn’t just lose a game

They lost their right to talk ish for the next 10 years.

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Especially our dumb azz fans taunting the Mavs with "Suns in four" after Game 1.

[Bruin]

Someone check on this guy

[jc23]

Something has to change now, most likely Ayton. Maybe Phoenix can find a sign and trade partner.

[Jesus_H_Macy]

Ayton needs to be re-signed, regardless of the contract. If the Suns don't want him then you sign him and move him later. I personally would prefer they keep him and make him more of a focal point on offense and see how it goes but I'm not 100% sold on him. He has some mental improvements he needs to make to truly be great. He may make them or he may not. If they really just don't want him back then it MUST be a sign-and-trade where they get value back for him. If the Suns just let him walk then Sarver should just sell off whatever tangible assets the team owns and they should fold up and retract from the league. Letting Ayton walk for nothing would be an absolutely monumental failure.

Other than the Ayton situation...this team is mentally broken. I don't know what the **** that was. The entire team from the coaching staff down looked **** scared and unprepared. I almost think you have to fire Monty. You definitely can't bring this same team back and expect anything good to happen. A large shakeup is needed if anything beyond a first round series win is going to be expected from them. Blowing the Finals last year sucked, but that was recoverable. They had a horrible game plan to guard Giannis and had some **** efforts and **** games but they were never not in the series despite the losing 4 in a row. They competed. This was a joke. The entire team might as well just retire. None of them even seemed to care in the post-game pressers. No one looked embarrassed. They looked like they were expecting to lose and were happy it was over. Pathetic.

Dallas deserves some props though. Luka will be knocking the Suns out of the playoffs for the next 15yrs while the Suns let the dude they picked over him walk for nothing. At least I'm not a Kings fan I guess? That feels like a slight on Kings fans after that performance.

[Richard4444]

Regardless of what happened in game 7 the Suns will need to resign Ayton as cheap as possible because they aren't going to be able to get a young athletic center like him and he's a big reason for the Suns success.

How much is "cheap as possible"? He's an RFA and i have no doubt someone will offer him a max deal (granted, it would only be 4 years). So it's going to depend how if the Suns are willing to pay the tax to retain him.

Are you really sure some team will give him an offer sheet? There are very few teams with enough cap space. Basically, Spurs, Magic (after waiving Bamba Cap Hold), and Detroit will have around 30M; Indiana around 25M; and OKC around 13M.

To give an offer sheet, they would have to stand pat while waiting 2 days for a possible match by The Suns. There is a huge opportunity cost because they would have to pass nice Free Agents on the market, trade deals, salary dumps opportunities, and sign and trade deals.

[Jadoogar]

Regardless of what happened in game 7 the Suns will need to resign Ayton as cheap as possible because they aren't going to be able to get a young athletic center like him and he's a big reason for the Suns success.

How much is "cheap as possible"? He's an RFA and i have no doubt someone will offer him a max deal (granted, it would only be 4 years). So it's going to depend how if the Suns are willing to pay the tax to retain him.

Are you really sure some team will give him an offer sheet? There are very few teams with enough cap space. Basically, Spurs, Magic (after waiving Bamba Cap Hold), and Detroit will have around 30M; Indiana around 25M; and OKC around 15M.

To give an offer sheet, they would have to stand pat while waiting 2 days for a possible match by The Suns. There is a huge opportunity cost because they would have to pass nice Free Agents on the market, trade deals, salary dumps opportunities, and sign and trade deals.

We've seen that capspace isn't really an issue anymore with the rise of S&Ts. This FA class isn't all that enticing outside of the big names. Maybe a team like the Hornets clears some space and gives him a max offer sheet. Charlotte isn't risking too much by tying up their capspace and likely worth the gamble for them.

[Big J]

I just don’t see how they win a title with CP3 on the team. I’d try to trade him for an expiring if possible and retool.

Who’s going to want him with that contract and that age besides some dumb team thinking he’s the missing piece for them?

Lakers

Kings are dumb enough to do it too.

[UnbelievablyRAW]

Seems like they need to trade Ayton to Toronto I’m afraid

[Richard4444]

How much is "cheap as possible"? He's an RFA and i have no doubt someone will offer him a max deal (granted, it would only be 4 years). So it's going to depend how if the Suns are willing to pay the tax to retain him.

Are you really sure some team will give him an offer sheet? There are very few teams with enough cap space. Basically, Spurs, Magic (after waiving Bamba Cap Hold), and Detroit will have around 30M; Indiana around 25M; and OKC around 15M.

To give an offer sheet, they would have to stand pat while waiting 2 days for a possible match by The Suns. There is a huge opportunity cost because they would have to pass nice Free Agents on the market, trade deals, salary dumps opportunities, and sign and trade deals.

We've seen that capspace isn't really an issue anymore with the rise of S&Ts. This FA class isn't all that enticing outside of the big names. Maybe a team like the Hornets clears some space and gives him a max offer sheet. Charlotte isn't risking too much by tying up their capspace and likely worth the gamble for them.

Yes, sign and trade deals are popular. I think it's more likely for The Suns to trade Ayton in a sign-and-trade deal than to lose him for nothing in RFA.

Opening cap space can be tricky. If Charlotte keeps their picks and Myles Bridges' cap hold, they would be spending 120M after waiving Oubre and Mason (with 9M dead cap price) and giving up Harrel Cap Hold. They would have to open an additional 30M without being sure The Suns would not match the offer.

[The Rebel]

Need a big wing who is good both offensively and defensively. Trade Ayton for OG

No thanks

I agree OG > Ayton but to clear logjam at forward someone has to move; how about Ayton + a young promising guard or FRP for OG?

Unless Ayton wants to take a paycut to play for the Raptors that deal is not going to work financially. Ayton is a restricted free agent, he decides where he signs not the Suns.

[R-DAWG]

I have a question for Suns fans...do you think Bridges has been good enough player in playoffs to justify his 4 yr $90M contract? I don't watch him as often as you guys do but from what I have seen of him in playoffs, I find him underwhelming. Offensively he just seems really easy to stop, can't create own shot and his 3 pt shot also doesn't look consistent

The good role player making $18MM per year has almost turned into a bad value contract, even if it's market value for an above average starter.

13/5/3 on 48/39/93 is fine for a role player.

That's not the point. The challenge is paying $18MM per year for that kind of production. Market value for an average role player isn't good value.

[The Rebel]

Regardless of what happened in game 7 the Suns will need to resign Ayton as cheap as possible because they aren't going to be able to get a young athletic center like him and he's a big reason for the Suns success.

How much is "cheap as possible"? He's an RFA and i have no doubt someone will offer him a max deal (granted, it would only be 4 years). So it's going to depend how if the Suns are willing to pay the tax to retain him.

Are you really sure some team will give him an offer sheet? There are very few teams with enough cap space. Basically, Spurs, Magic (after waiving Bamba Cap Hold), and Detroit will have around 30M; Indiana around 25M; and OKC around 13M.

To give an offer sheet, they would have to stand pat while waiting 2 days for a possible match by The Suns. There is a huge opportunity cost because they would have to pass nice Free Agents on the market, trade deals, salary dumps opportunities, and sign and trade deals.

The way it usually works is that all the top end players agree to deals during the moratorium, so the team's that miss out of those stars will then agree to a deal with a restricted free agent the 1st day of actually being able to sign guys. There is a lot of money available right now and I don't see many guys worth that type of deal, at least 1 or two teams will be ready and willing to throw that money at Ayton.

[Mr Puddles]

Holy ****, I didn't realise Paul is signed to 24/25

then what are they supposed to do? waste cap space when no star is coming? suns should be thanking cp3 for what he did.
they were a lotto 1st round without him.

Couldn't they thank him without paying him the GDP of Mozambique?

He's essentially a free agent after next season if the team wants him to be. The last two years of his contract are a team option, with the 3rd year partially guaranteed.

[Lalouie]

i think phx is a high level treadmill team.

i have doubts about this team post-cp3.
cp3 has been stamped and verified - he tires out at the end of the season. this was his very best year for a ring.
when cp3 goes, and age hits FAST, that is half of phx's top clutch duo.
when cp3 goes, so goes ayton. ayton get's spoon fed. no cp3, no ayton.

when cp3 goes, phx drops back to just a little better than what they were pre-cp3

FO has work to do to be proactive. i don't think ayton is a max player(FO doesn't think so either), but HE might think he is.
on the bright side for phx, gsw is standing at cliff'sedge. lebron and the lakers are done. clips are done. utah is done. the west is turning into what the east was

West is going to be just as good as it ever was. Clippers with a healthy PG/ Kawhi, healthy NOP, Nuggets with Murray and Porter returning, Warriors ain't going nowhere, motivated Lakers, Minnesota, Mavs as well as the unknowns with Blazers and Jazz, the west will be fine and just as tough

Grizzlies

here's the difference between now/future and yesterday
the stars and elite teams of yesterday are old but when they were at peak they were elite AND VETS
the teams leading the nba into the future are good but not great, AND ARE YOUNG NOT VETS.

so going forward i'd say there will be a 3-5yr jockeying when this mish mosh of good teams get sorted out. they're not "vet" enough to establish anything. we're right now seeing phx at a short-lived precipice. cp3 is certifiably old, which means who feeds booker and ayton and ayton might be gone - and that is how tenuous staying on top is!

the bucks could be that team but they're out and i can make a case that it's because they lost middleton

[The Rebel]

I think they need to do what they can to force a sign and trade with Ayton to get a TPE and a pick or something, while I know Suns fans and others are dreaming about huge returns, that is what most sign and trades actually bring back.

With that TPE and pick they need to turn around and trade for a good wing defender, sign a suitable defensive starting C. They need to buy into the draft and find a high quality young backup PG that can develop into a high end starter.

BAsically this year they have to focus on actually getting the holes on the roster fixed while not losing too much in the process.

[Richard4444]

How much is "cheap as possible"? He's an RFA and i have no doubt someone will offer him a max deal (granted, it would only be 4 years). So it's going to depend how if the Suns are willing to pay the tax to retain him.

Are you really sure some team will give him an offer sheet? There are very few teams with enough cap space. Basically, Spurs, Magic (after waiving Bamba Cap Hold), and Detroit will have around 30M; Indiana around 25M; and OKC around 13M.

To give an offer sheet, they would have to stand pat while waiting 2 days for a possible match by The Suns. There is a huge opportunity cost because they would have to pass nice Free Agents on the market, trade deals, salary dumps opportunities, and sign and trade deals.

The way it usually works is that all the top end players agree to deals during the moratorium, so the team's that miss out of those stars will then agree to a deal with a restricted free agent the 1st day of actually being able to sign guys. There is a lot of money available right now and I don't see many guys worth that type of deal, at least 1 or two teams will be ready and willing to throw that money at Ayton.

If The Suns do not sign and trade Ayton, I think it's a clear statement they are ready to match any offer. It's too stupid losing him for nothing.

I do not think any of these few teams will risk passing good deals only to make sure Ayton is not really available.

[srhcan]

No thanks

I agree OG > Ayton but to clear logjam at forward someone has to move; how about Ayton + a young promising guard or FRP for OG?

Unless Ayton wants to take a paycut to play for the Raptors that deal is not going to work financially. Ayton is a restricted free agent, he decides where he signs not the Suns.

He is not unrestricted so a sign-and-trade may work. I dont expect Ayton to get more than how much OG is making currently.

[Lalouie]

I think they need to do what they can to force a sign and trade with Ayton to get a TPE and a pick or something, while I know Suns fans and others are dreaming about huge returns, that is what most sign and trades actually bring back.

With that TPE and pick they need to turn around and trade for a good wing defender, sign a suitable defensive starting C. They need to buy into the draft and find a high quality young backup PG that can develop into a high end starter.

BAsically this year they have to focus on actually getting the holes on the roster fixed while not losing too much in the process.

i think it would work out for phx. here's my math - ayton is overrated so he will bring in an overrated return, meaning phx will probably get a good exchange at the very least. if the team ayton goes to has a pg problem he will be a bust. he needs someone to spoon feed him and hornets might be such a team

phx was 18-6 without ayton and 3 of those losses came in a bunch in april at the end of the season

[The Rebel]

I agree OG > Ayton but to clear logjam at forward someone has to move; how about Ayton + a young promising guard or FRP for OG?

Unless Ayton wants to take a paycut to play for the Raptors that deal is not going to work financially. Ayton is a restricted free agent, he decides where he signs not the Suns.

He is not unrestricted so a sign-and-trade may work. I dont expect Ayton to get more than how much OG is making currently.

Did you just start following the NBA? Even restricted free agents decide what contract they will sign and who they will play for, the Suns do not get to just choose another team and work out a trade unless that guy is wanting to go to the team. The only thing the Suns get to decide is if they will match the deal or not? If they are lucky the team Ayton wants to play for will call them and offer them a sign and trade, but the Suns are not choosing the team he goes to.

As for what you expect him to make, you are fooling yourself if you think Ayton is going to sign for anywhere close to $18 million a year. Even if he did, why would he take the deal from the RAptors? When is the last time a guy signed in Toronto for market value?

[The Rebel]

Are you really sure some team will give him an offer sheet? There are very few teams with enough cap space. Basically, Spurs, Magic (after waiving Bamba Cap Hold), and Detroit will have around 30M; Indiana around 25M; and OKC around 13M.

To give an offer sheet, they would have to stand pat while waiting 2 days for a possible match by The Suns. There is a huge opportunity cost because they would have to pass nice Free Agents on the market, trade deals, salary dumps opportunities, and sign and trade deals.

The way it usually works is that all the top end players agree to deals during the moratorium, so the team's that miss out of those stars will then agree to a deal with a restricted free agent the 1st day of actually being able to sign guys. There is a lot of money available right now and I don't see many guys worth that type of deal, at least 1 or two teams will be ready and willing to throw that money at Ayton.

If The Suns do not sign and trade Ayton, I think it's a clear statement they are ready to match any offer. It's too stupid losing him for nothing.

I do not think any of these few teams will risk passing good deals only to make sure Ayton is not really available.

Do you know how sign and trades usually work? The player picks the team and agrees to terms, that team will then decide if they believe that the Suns will match, if they believe they will then they will call and offer a sign and trade, if they don't then they will just sign the offer sheet. Ayton decides which team he will sign with, the team he is signing with decides if they are willing to do a sign and trade along with what to offer, and the Suns only choice is to a match an offer, take a sign and trade if offered, or let him go for free.

The rumors have been there for a year that they do not want to pay Ayton, they have blamed him for many issues throughout the year, they run him name down while ignoring issues with their stars, and now they didn't put him back into a game they were blown out of, I doubt teams are worried they are matching at this point.