Post-Mortem: 2021-22 Phoenix Suns

[The Rebel]

I think they need to do what they can to force a sign and trade with Ayton to get a TPE and a pick or something, while I know Suns fans and others are dreaming about huge returns, that is what most sign and trades actually bring back.

With that TPE and pick they need to turn around and trade for a good wing defender, sign a suitable defensive starting C. They need to buy into the draft and find a high quality young backup PG that can develop into a high end starter.

BAsically this year they have to focus on actually getting the holes on the roster fixed while not losing too much in the process.

i think it would work out for phx. here's my math - ayton is overrated so he will bring in an overrated return, meaning phx will probably get a good exchange at the very least. if the team ayton goes to has a pg problem he will be a bust. he needs someone to spoon feed him and hornets might be such a team

phx was 18-6 without ayton and 3 of those losses came in a bunch in april at the end of the season

If he needs a PG to spoon feed him than why have his stats went down with Paul? As for the record without Ayton, against some teams have a good defensive big isn't a help as teams are more perimeter oriented, but then you run into teams with a dominate big and how are the Suns going to do against those teams without Ayton?

Don't worry I and many other fans will only smile and shake our heads a little next year when you guys are getting destroyed by teams with good bigs and you cannot figure out why.

[ruffian253]

Ayton needs to be re-signed, regardless of the contract. If the Suns don't want him then you sign him and move him later. I personally would prefer they keep him and make him more of a focal point on offense and see how it goes but I'm not 100% sold on him. He has some mental improvements he needs to make to truly be great. He may make them or he may not. If they really just don't want him back then it MUST be a sign-and-trade where they get value back for him. If the Suns just let him walk then Sarver should just sell off whatever tangible assets the team owns and they should fold up and retract from the league. Letting Ayton walk for nothing would be an absolutely monumental failure.

Other than the Ayton situation...this team is mentally broken. I don't know what the **** that was. The entire team from the coaching staff down looked **** scared and unprepared. I almost think you have to fire Monty. You definitely can't bring this same team back and expect anything good to happen. A large shakeup is needed if anything beyond a first round series win is going to be expected from them. Blowing the Finals last year sucked, but that was recoverable. They had a horrible game plan to guard Giannis and had some **** efforts and **** games but they were never not in the series despite the losing 4 in a row. They competed. This was a joke. The entire team might as well just retire. None of them even seemed to care in the post-game pressers. No one looked embarrassed. They looked like they were expecting to lose and were happy it was over. Pathetic.

Dallas deserves some props though. Luka will be knocking the Suns out of the playoffs for the next 15yrs while the Suns let the dude they picked over him walk for nothing. At least I'm not a Kings fan I guess? That feels like a slight on Kings fans after that performance.

The kings ultimately got Sabonis, so not a bad tradeoff for a sunk cost in Bagley

[macNcheese3]

Need a big wing who is good both offensively and defensively. Trade Ayton for OG

Ayton would be what the Raptors need, but not sure his attitude fits their team. If and if the reports are true he put himself before his team and trying to win game 7, that should have been his sole focus at that time. It would have made them closer to a Chip.

[srhcan]

Unless Ayton wants to take a paycut to play for the Raptors that deal is not going to work financially. Ayton is a restricted free agent, he decides where he signs not the Suns.

He is not unrestricted so a sign-and-trade may work. I dont expect Ayton to get more than how much OG is making currently.

Did you just start following the NBA? Even restricted free agents decide what contract they will sign and who they will play for, the Suns do not get to just choose another team and work out a trade unless that guy is wanting to go to the team. The only thing the Suns get to decide is if they will match the deal or not? If they are lucky the team Ayton wants to play for will call them and offer them a sign and trade, but the Suns are not choosing the team he goes to.

As for what you expect him to make, you are fooling yourself if you think Ayton is going to sign for anywhere close to $18 million a year. Even if he did, why would he take the deal from the RAptors? When is the last time a guy signed in Toronto for market value?

Of course I know how restricted agency works I am betting that if Ayton is leaving Suns then he will be willing to sign with Raptors among other teams. May not be heart favorite but among top destinations considering all factors (GM, coach, team culture, talent among same age group etc.)

[namlede]

This is the kind of loss where the franchise needs to blow everything up to rid away that stink. Or else they will end up as a treadmill for the next several years.

You don’t come back from this loss by running it back. That’s a franchise killing loss if I’ve ever seen one.

or it could light a fire under their a**.

a couple examples are the Virginia Cavaliers being the first 1 seed to lose to a #16, and they got blown out. next year the win the NCAaA Championship

the Tampa Bay Lightning with an elite regular season only to lose in the first round by the 8th seed in a sweep. haven't lost in the playoffs since with 2 Championships and winning round 1 this year.



Sent from my Pixel 2 using RealGM mobile app

[Richard4444]

The way it usually works is that all the top end players agree to deals during the moratorium, so the team's that miss out of those stars will then agree to a deal with a restricted free agent the 1st day of actually being able to sign guys. There is a lot of money available right now and I don't see many guys worth that type of deal, at least 1 or two teams will be ready and willing to throw that money at Ayton.

If The Suns do not sign and trade Ayton, I think it's a clear statement they are ready to match any offer. It's too stupid losing him for nothing.

I do not think any of these few teams will risk passing good deals only to make sure Ayton is not really available.

Do you know how sign and trades usually work? The player picks the team and agrees to terms, that team will then decide if they believe that the Suns will match, if they believe they will then they will call and offer a sign and trade, if they don't then they will just sign the offer sheet. Ayton decides which team he will sign with, the team he is signing with decides if they are willing to do a sign and trade along with what to offer, and the Suns only choice is to a match an offer, take a sign and trade if offered, or let him go for free.

The rumors have been there for a year that they do not want to pay Ayton, they have blamed him for many issues throughout the year, they run him name down while ignoring issues with their stars, and now they didn't put him back into a game they were blown out of, I doubt teams are worried they are matching at this point.

The Suns do not want to max Ayton. Everybody knows that. But if they are left with only 2 options: Max Ayton or let him walk for nothing. I think The Suns will max him. Ayton must be valuable even if he is in a max contract. They can trade him later.

Assuming The Spurs are interested in Ayton and vice versa, it's a matter of perception and risk management from the Spurs Front Office to choose the best approach (sign and trade or give him an offer sheet). I believe The Spurs would try to do a sign-and-trade deal to not take any chances to get matched. The quality of the package deal would depend on the perception of the interest of the Suns to match any offer.

Besides, in your example, you are assuming Ayton agrees to play for the cap space team like the Spurs. But none of the cap-spaced teams (Spurs, Detroit, Orlando, and Indiana) are attractive franchises.

In a sign and trade deal, Ayton can expand the universe of franchises he can play. It's likely Ayton prefers to play for a capped team. . The Nets or the Raptors for example. It's also likely that Ayton will get offers. But the transfer will depend on a sign and trade deal.

If the Suns refuse to sign and trade him and end up losing him in Free Agency by refusing to match a max offer, It will be pretty stupid.

[Phystic]

GM/Coach should be safe but have performed

Pauls play is the biggest issue. With him being trash it allowed mavs to easily double book. And then as has been the case all year, they do not play through Ayton. Not sure if that's Paul or Monty decision but it's the biggest issue in the mavs series.

Play through Ayton, make Mavs adjust and should open up for jump shots.

Payne needs to go, he's not the answer as well has he played last year and had a short stint this year.

I like Shamet but overpaid.

Bridges is fine. Ayton should be paid if the Suns plan to involve him offensively. If not then there's not reason to pay him.

Cam Johnson needs to stay.

I have doubts about Booker being the clear #1 on a championship team. He's still young and limited playoff experience but his decision making is a problem.

I was concerned all year about Suns relying on 4th qtr to win. Can't play awful for 3/4 of a game and expect to win in the playoffs.

Suns should have lost in the first round

[enigmatics]

Read on Twitter

...... or a turnaround oreo jumper from 18ft over his 5'11 cousin.

[enigmatics]

Man the dread of a treadmill team is written all over them right now.

[Lalouie]

I think they need to do what they can to force a sign and trade with Ayton to get a TPE and a pick or something, while I know Suns fans and others are dreaming about huge returns, that is what most sign and trades actually bring back.

With that TPE and pick they need to turn around and trade for a good wing defender, sign a suitable defensive starting C. They need to buy into the draft and find a high quality young backup PG that can develop into a high end starter.

BAsically this year they have to focus on actually getting the holes on the roster fixed while not losing too much in the process.

i think it would work out for phx. here's my math - ayton is overrated so he will bring in an overrated return, meaning phx will probably get a good exchange at the very least. if the team ayton goes to has a pg problem he will be a bust. he needs someone to spoon feed him and hornets might be such a team

phx was 18-6 without ayton and 3 of those losses came in a bunch in april at the end of the season

If he needs a PG to spoon feed him than why have his stats went down with Paul? As for the record without Ayton, against some teams have a good defensive big isn't a help as teams are more perimeter oriented, but then you run into teams with a dominate big and how are the Suns going to do against those teams without Ayton?

Don't worry I and many other fans will only smile and shake our heads a little next year when you guys are getting destroyed by teams with good bigs and you cannot figure out why.

just to clarify....i'm not a suns fan

[SF_Warriors]

Ayton needs to be re-signed, regardless of the contract. If the Suns don't want him then you sign him and move him later. I personally would prefer they keep him and make him more of a focal point on offense and see how it goes but I'm not 100% sold on him. He has some mental improvements he needs to make to truly be great. He may make them or he may not. If they really just don't want him back then it MUST be a sign-and-trade where they get value back for him. If the Suns just let him walk then Sarver should just sell off whatever tangible assets the team owns and they should fold up and retract from the league. Letting Ayton walk for nothing would be an absolutely monumental failure.

Other than the Ayton situation...this team is mentally broken. I don't know what the **** that was. The entire team from the coaching staff down looked **** scared and unprepared. I almost think you have to fire Monty. You definitely can't bring this same team back and expect anything good to happen. A large shakeup is needed if anything beyond a first round series win is going to be expected from them. Blowing the Finals last year sucked, but that was recoverable. They had a horrible game plan to guard Giannis and had some **** efforts and **** games but they were never not in the series despite the losing 4 in a row. They competed. This was a joke. The entire team might as well just retire. None of them even seemed to care in the post-game pressers. No one looked embarrassed. They looked like they were expecting to lose and were happy it was over. Pathetic.

Dallas deserves some props though. Luka will be knocking the Suns out of the playoffs for the next 15yrs while the Suns let the dude they picked over him walk for nothing. At least I'm not a Kings fan I guess? That feels like a slight on Kings fans after that performance.

The kings ultimately got Sabonis, so not a bad tradeoff for a sunk cost in Bagley

Um, you do realize the kings gave up haliburton for sabonis right? They got divencenzio out of bagley.

[Catchall]

Teams need to start asking themselves about their overall strategy and roster construction. The roles of the traditional 5 and traditional 1 are being challenged by teams that roll out big guards and big wings who are more or less interchangeable on both ends of the floor.

Teams are going 5-out, meaning every guard/wing on the floor has to be able to keep players in front of them and be long enough to contest shots on the perimeter. Every big has to be able rotate out to the perimeter and guard down multiple positions.

The Suns' season this year was eerily similar to the Jazz's last year--best record and #1 seed, loses in the 2nd round to the #4 seed who dominates by spreading the floor, sharing the ball and playing through a highly skilled big guard.

Teams aren't running screen/rolls or other sophisticated actions. They're just spreading the floor, drawing a switch, and driving on the weakest defender they can find.

[ruffian253]

Ayton needs to be re-signed, regardless of the contract. If the Suns don't want him then you sign him and move him later. I personally would prefer they keep him and make him more of a focal point on offense and see how it goes but I'm not 100% sold on him. He has some mental improvements he needs to make to truly be great. He may make them or he may not. If they really just don't want him back then it MUST be a sign-and-trade where they get value back for him. If the Suns just let him walk then Sarver should just sell off whatever tangible assets the team owns and they should fold up and retract from the league. Letting Ayton walk for nothing would be an absolutely monumental failure.

Other than the Ayton situation...this team is mentally broken. I don't know what the **** that was. The entire team from the coaching staff down looked **** scared and unprepared. I almost think you have to fire Monty. You definitely can't bring this same team back and expect anything good to happen. A large shakeup is needed if anything beyond a first round series win is going to be expected from them. Blowing the Finals last year sucked, but that was recoverable. They had a horrible game plan to guard Giannis and had some **** efforts and **** games but they were never not in the series despite the losing 4 in a row. They competed. This was a joke. The entire team might as well just retire. None of them even seemed to care in the post-game pressers. No one looked embarrassed. They looked like they were expecting to lose and were happy it was over. Pathetic.

Dallas deserves some props though. Luka will be knocking the Suns out of the playoffs for the next 15yrs while the Suns let the dude they picked over him walk for nothing. At least I'm not a Kings fan I guess? That feels like a slight on Kings fans after that performance.

The kings ultimately got Sabonis, so not a bad tradeoff for a sunk cost in Bagley

Um, you do realize the kings gave up haliburton for sabonis right? They got divencenzio out of bagley.

I was mistaken then, irregardless, the kings moved on and are in a better spot with sabonis and divencenzio vs bagley and Haliburton. I know everyone is high on Haliburton, but the kings are better off with fox and Mitchell long term IMO since there is always a player similar to Haliburton every year in the draft

[SF_Warriors]

The kings ultimately got Sabonis, so not a bad tradeoff for a sunk cost in Bagley

Um, you do realize the kings gave up haliburton for sabonis right? They got divencenzio out of bagley.

I was mistaken then, irregardless, the kings moved on and are in a better spot with sabonis and divencenzio vs bagley and Haliburton. I know everyone is high on Haliburton, but the kings are better off with fox and Mitchell long term IMO since there is always a player similar to Haliburton every year in the draft

Yea, but they wasted the #2 pick and ended up with an average ish rotation guard, which was the point of the poster you responded to. If they hadnt wasted that pick they would be way better off.

[dc]

This was an epic collapse at home, but the Suns had a great run these last 2 years. They had their bubble run (though it didn't qualify them for the playoffs) that piqued the attention of CP3.

People forget that before the bubble run, they were kind of a team going in circles of sorts. Nobody figured adding an old CP3 was going to make them a contender, but they made the Finals the very next year and finished not only with the best record in the league this year, but 1st in several metrics that pointed to them being the favorites.

They looked like a deep, complete squad. They played both ends. They were good in the clutch. They seemed to have every attribute of a title favorite, but in the end their success just relied too much on a 36/37 year old PG.

[Jesus_H_Macy]

This was an epic collapse at home, but the Suns had a great run these last 2 years. They had their bubble run (though it didn't qualify them for the playoffs) that piqued the attention of CP3.

People forget that before the bubble run, they were kind of a team going in circles of sorts. Nobody figured adding an old CP3 was going to make them a contender, but they made the Finals the very next year and finished not only with the best record in the league this year, but 1st in several metrics that pointed to them being the favorites.

They looked like a deep, complete squad. They played both ends. They were good in the clutch. They seemed to have every attribute of a title favorite, but in the end their success just relied too much on a 36/37 year old PG.

Going to speak on behalf of Suns fans (they can feel free to disagree though). What is so enraging, disappointing, disgusting, soul crushing about this season is that all of those things you mentioned - deep, both ends, clutch, balanced - they were all true. 100% true. The Suns, though I never counted out the Warriors, were far and away the best team in the league. And it wasn't just regular season ball - they were on the course of destiny. 68-win pace. Then they locked up the best record in the league with a few weeks to go in the season and just basically quit playing and acted like they already wont the title. Myself and many others tried to convince ourselves that they were just bored and were waiting for the important games to start but deep down inside I knew that a team like the Suns who hasn't won anything can't just turn it off and on like that when they want. And I was unfortunately right. Their D never came back except for in spurts. Their bench started playing like absolute trash. The clutchness was apparently purely CP3 and his game up and vanished like a fart in the wind. It was like everything that made them so good and made us fans really start to believe this was the year was just ripped right out from under us. Oh you like your 68-win pace team, setting all kinds of records and getting close to others? Enjoy it for 72 games and then we'll replace them with the Utah Jazz (sorry Jazz fans) when you're not paying attention and thinking about the playoff run. The ultimate bait and switch. I don't know what team showed up to the '22 playoffs but it wasn't the October to March Phoenix Suns.

[spanishninja]

This was an epic collapse at home, but the Suns had a great run these last 2 years. They had their bubble run (though it didn't qualify them for the playoffs) that piqued the attention of CP3.

People forget that before the bubble run, they were kind of a team going in circles of sorts. Nobody figured adding an old CP3 was going to make them a contender, but they made the Finals the very next year and finished not only with the best record in the league this year, but 1st in several metrics that pointed to them being the favorites.

They looked like a deep, complete squad. They played both ends. They were good in the clutch. They seemed to have every attribute of a title favorite, but in the end their success just relied too much on a 36/37 year old PG.

and it's reasonable to say that we jumped at the chance to get CP3 because historically Phoenix has just not been a good FA destination. I still think given the chance to do it again, we would have still done it this way. And if we end up being a fringe playoff team again after this offseason, we'd be even worse off since we will not be in a good place draft wise.

[dc]

Going to speak on behalf of Suns fans (they can feel free to disagree though). What is so enraging, disappointing, disgusting, soul crushing about this season is that all of those things you mentioned - deep, both ends, clutch, balanced - they were all true. 100% true. The Suns, though I never counted out the Warriors, were far and away the best team in the league. And it wasn't just regular season ball - they were on the course of destiny. 68-win pace. Then they locked up the best record in the league with a few weeks to go in the season and just basically quit playing and acted like they already wont the title. Myself and many others tried to convince ourselves that they were just bored and were waiting for the important games to start but deep down inside I knew that a team like the Suns who hasn't won anything can't just turn it off and on like that when they want. And I was unfortunately right. Their D never came back except for in spurts. Their bench started playing like absolute trash. The clutchness was apparently purely CP3 and his game up and vanished like a fart in the wind. It was like everything that made them so good and made us fans really start to believe this was the year was just ripped right out from under us. Oh you like your 68-win pace team, setting all kinds of records and getting close to others? Enjoy it for 58 games and then we'll replace them with the Utah Jazz (sorry Jazz fans) when you're not paying attention and thinking about the playoff run. The ultimate bait and switch. I don't know what team showed up to the '22 playoffs but it wasn't the October to March Phoenix Suns.

When they played the Pels and had trouble putting them away, I figured it was something like the young Hawks in 2008 sort of giving the Celtics and their epic squad that year some trouble in the 1st round. They were young, athletic, playing with house money and didn't know any better.

So I figured they'd actually have an easier time with a less athletic, slower paced Mavericks. And for the first 2 games, that looked to be the case. It looked like the Pels were really were the tougher matchup. After Game 5, I figured this was just another one of those series where the home team dominates. The announcer even flat out said early in Game 7 that Luka was the only Mav who's game seemed to travel with him on the road. I didn't figure it'd be a cakewalk for Phx , but nobody would've ever expected the no show performance we saw.

[Bobbymcgee]

Doesn't sound like Ayton is happy there in Phoenix. First, he gets screwed by the owner not wanting to pay him and now the coach not wanting to play him. I just don't see it turning into anything positive unless he gets paid a max contract. Then, maybe he turns his attitude around. I could see that being a big drag on the Suns next season if the situation isn't rectified. Not exactly conducive to trying to win a championship.

[skones]

This flameout reminds me of Milwaukee's own in the bubble. The problem here is Chris Paul. The Suns go as he goes and his age makes him susceptible to fading down the stretch the deeper he moves into the postseason. That's two 2-0 leads blown in their last two exits, and I've got more questions on the Monty side of things than most do.

I wanted us to take a good long look at Chris Finch after our flameout, but Minnesota went and snatched him up, and there weren't any other alternatives that would have forced my hand to make a change. I think Phoenix is in a similar situation. The feather in the cap of Phoenix is the continued evolution of Mikal Bridges. If he takes a step and makes himself into a viable 3rd or 4th option shot creator, it completely changes the look of this team.