Rank Bud against the other 29 coaches in the NBA

[paulpressey25]

Would like to see where people rank Bud as a coach and who you have ahead of him?

For me personally, I've gotten the best four years of my fandom under Bud. Been an awesome run, and I think he's a very good coach (in the top 20%). Do not believe there are readily better alternatives out there.

That said, for those that want someone new, would like to see where you rank Bud, and who you have ahead of him.

[machu46]

I think there’s probably 4 coaches that are indisputably ahead of him, and 5 or 6 more that you can make a case for but I’d be hesitant to say anything definitive for various reasons.


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[DanoMac]

The thought of upgrading your coach is so much easier than actually upgrading your coach. Bud changed the culture here and it seems like the players really enjoy playing for him. His protege is killin it in Memphis, other assistants constantly getting interviewed, it would be foolish to fire Bud at this stage.

If you fail in the playoffs the next 2 seasons, then I think there's a case. But for now, no, if Middleton isn't hurt Bud is coaching in the ECF.

[FrieAaron]

I'm pretty vocally on the "very very hesitant to fire Bud" bandwagon. My list of coaches I would for sure put above him currently are:

Spoelstra
Popovich
Kerr (kind of hard to judge given the teams he's had, but can't argue the results)

And honestly, laugh all you want, but for me that's it. That's the list.

Now I'd put the following on the same tier as him:

Carlisle
Lue (wouldn't have been here a few years ago but he's really impressed me with LAC)
Nurse
Snyder

So yeah, top 20% sounds about right. If someone wanted to rank him dead last out of all those coaches I won't argue, but I'm also just shrugging my shoulders and hoping for the best if we were to replace him with one of them. Not upset but not doing cartwheels.

[RogerMurdock]

Glad you specified as a coach. I was about to rank Bud in terms of who would win in a fight and it would have been very controversial.

[Milbucks96]

For sure better than him
Spo
Pop
Kerr
Nurse
Probably Lue

He’s better than
Donovan
Thibs
Nash
Rivers
Monty
Carlisle
Snyder
Vogel
McMillan
Malone
And other long term coaches that’s been in the league for a while. Some of these guys are comparable but I would give Bud the edge because his overall success.

Guys on the come up that does some things that Bud might be a little too stubborn for, but I still can’t say they’re better yet.
Udoka
Finch
Kidd(ew)
Jenkins
Borego

TLDR: I would put him comfortably in the top ten(probably one of the first guys out of the top 5). He’s not a superstar coach but more of an all star. Has prominent flaws that can cost you but he’s too good to just get rid of. He’s here for the rest of his contract I believe and I think that is a positive thing. He has work to do but I have no desire to get rid of him.

[emunney]

For sure better than him
Spo
Pop
Kerr
Nurse
Probably Lue

He’s better than
Donovan
Thibs
Nash
Rivers
Monty
Carlisle
Snyder
Vogel
McMillan
Malone
And other long term coaches that’s been in the league for a while. Some of these guys are comparable but I would give Bud the edge because his overall success.

Guys on the come up that does some things that Bud might be a little too stubborn for, but I still can’t say they’re better yet.
Udoka
Finch
Kidd(ew)
Jenkins
Borego

TLDR: I would put him comfortably in the top ten(probably one of the first guys out of the top 5). He’s not a superstar coach but more of an all star. Has prominent flaws that can cost you but he’s too good to just get rid of. He’s here for the rest of his contract I believe and I think that is a positive thing. He has work to do but I have no desire to get rid of him.

One innovative thing Borrego does is gets hammered in two consecutive play-in games where his team looks totally unprepared and then gets canned.

[tydett]

The crux of this exercise is the lack of supply/opportunity for coaches to prove themselves as being better than Bud, as well as the relatively short title windows that exist in the NBA. Bud was definitely the right coach to succeed Kidd. He brought the right atmosphere to build a culture for this team. These guys love each other. His offensive system helped Giannis take the next step, and has turned run-of-the-mill guys like Patty and Bobby into better players than they were before they got here, especially during the regular season.

But Giannis isn't going to be in his prime forever. This team is operating under different circumstances now than they were when Bud was brought here. We have three max guys dominating our cap sheet, and if Bobby/Patty leave for more money, then we legitimately have nobody on the bench that is worth playing right now. That's not quite Bud's fault, but his system is either unable to be grasped or unable to adjust to the players we do have on the roster. One thing IS certain about Budenholzer's teams over the past few playoffs: their 3P% drops precipitously in the playoffs, especially against good teams. If it were a one season anomaly, it could be written off, but we've now seen it across 4 years. The halfcourt devolves into a mess. There is little ball movement, and outside of having a generational talent, offense grinds to a halt. Again, not entirely Bud's fault, but as the coach, he is either ignored or encourages the deficient offense.

The question that it comes down to for me: if Giannis weren't on the team or unavailable for some reason, does Budenholzer still have a job here? Yes, they beat the pretender Hawks last year with Giannis down. But Giannis has done a hell of a job making Bud look really good. I'm not convinced that he's truly in the top tier despite winning a championship.

All this to say: I'm not supportive of firing Bud to bring in Stan Van Gundy or Steve Clifford or Mike D'Antoni. I'm thinking about looking for a coach who can come in and figure out how to best manage the non-Giannis pieces and put them in a place to succeed in ways that Bud has seemed incapable of. There's got to be some coaches out there who haven't gotten that chance, and I'm surreptitiously looking under those rocks while realizing that if we wait 2 more years for Budenholzer-based flameouts to fire him that we'll have a 30 year old superstar with 33 and 34 year old teammates looking awfully close to the current Brooklyn Nets.

[Milbucks96]

For sure better than him
Spo
Pop
Kerr
Nurse
Probably Lue

He’s better than
Donovan
Thibs
Nash
Rivers
Monty
Carlisle
Snyder
Vogel
McMillan
Malone
And other long term coaches that’s been in the league for a while. Some of these guys are comparable but I would give Bud the edge because his overall success.

Guys on the come up that does some things that Bud might be a little too stubborn for, but I still can’t say they’re better yet.
Udoka
Finch
Kidd(ew)
Jenkins
Borego

TLDR: I would put him comfortably in the top ten(probably one of the first guys out of the top 5). He’s not a superstar coach but more of an all star. Has prominent flaws that can cost you but he’s too good to just get rid of. He’s here for the rest of his contract I believe and I think that is a positive thing. He has work to do but I have no desire to get rid of him.

One innovative thing Borrego does is gets hammered in two consecutive play-in games where his team looks totally unprepared and then gets canned.

Yea that’s a knock on him for sure, it’s really just that I like the things he does whenever he plays the bucks. I think he would do some good things with a team like the bucks or another team with a superstar and a more balanced roster.

The hornets were looking like a top 5 seed before Hayward went down, their centers have been garbage for years too. I think he understands the modern nba and just needed the personnel for it.

I think bud is better though just that he’s a good coach too.

[DrWood]

Tied for 5th.

[MickeyDavis]

Good topic to debate. I think he's pretty good. Top 25% or so. He took a pedestrian Hawks team with Millsap as leading scorer (16.76) to 60 wins and the ECF. He took the Bucks to their first championship in 50 years. And he took the Celtics to 7 without our second best player. Also dropped 4 straight to the Raps 3 years ago.

I question some of his moves of course. Many hot takes after losses. And if a year from now the team decides to move on I won't cry. But overall he's a good coach.

I assume Big O is working on a Bud manifesto to post.

[GoldenAntlers]

I say he's a top 10 coach. Not convinced we will have a better option, but I'm very open to finding out. Some terrible decision making in that Boston series has left a sour taste.

[PG Graveyard]

I wouldn't put him in the top 10.

[PG Graveyard]

Side note was BigO the guy at the championship parade with the FIRE BUD sign. I still laugh about that one.

[FrieAaron]

I wouldn't put him in the top 10.

So let's see the ranking.

[paulpressey25]

I assume Big O is working on a Bud manifesto to post.

The manifesto is already in all the threads. If he elects to post in this one, would want the rankings list.

[Profound23]

32nd

[BigO]

Good topic to debate. I think he's pretty good. Top 25% or so. He took a pedestrian Hawks team with Millsap as leading scorer (16.76) to 60 wins and the ECF. He took the Bucks to their first championship in 50 years. And he took the Celtics to 7 without our second best player. Also dropped 4 straight to the Raps 3 years ago.

I question some of his moves of course. Many hot takes after losses. And if a year from now the team decides to move on I won't cry. But overall he's a good coach.

I assume Big O is working on a Bud manifesto to post.

My Bud Manifesto is a compilation of all my Bud posts over the last three years. It's pretty impressive.

My main criteria for replacing Bud is to find someone who is not transfixed on one way to do things. I will always believe that if it wasn't for PJ and Durant's big toe, we wouldn't be having this discussion. He'd be long gone. But I'll trade one championship for having to keep Bud a few seasons beyond his expiration date.

My knowledge of the other current head coaches is incomplete, the same as everyone else. But the ones who have shown themselves to be flexible, both offensively and defensively, are the following (I'll list the teams because my mind forgets last names):

Memphis (ironically a Bud protege who has shown an independent mind, unlike Bud)
Golden State
Utah
Miami
Toronto
Chicago-yes, I like him
Boston-still unsure despite having outcoached Bud by a big margin
Clippers
Spurs
Timberwolves
Cavaliers

The last two are newbies, but I was impressed by them.

So Bud is in the top half and I might hire him if I had a young team and needed a general philosophy put forward.

The one coach I have not listed is Thibs, who I admire a lot and who has done the best coaching job, in my opinion, the last two seasons. He has what I think is a bottom 2 or three talent level team, so he has done more with less than anyone else. But my criteria is flexibility, so he didn't make my list.

To summarize, I still believe talent is the overwhelming factor in success, which is why a good coach can have a bad record and a bad coach can win championships. But coaching still matters, especially when talent is relatively equal.

[blazza18]

To me the only no doubters are Spo, Lue and probably Nurse. Malone, Snyder and Kerr all good coaches in their own way like Bud but all have flaws like Bud.

[drew881]

Might not need a better coach, but one that does something differently might make us better.

Absolutely hate him as a person and not saying this would be better, but what do the Bucks look like under D’Antoni? What do we look like under Stotts?