What would CP3 have to do to overtake Curry on your all time list?

[iggymcfrack]

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2010-2019

It’s not just PIPM either. Most impact stats you look at will have similar results. I think CP3 had a better RAPM than KD 10 seasons in a row. The thing a lot of people miss with his impact is how stifling peak Paul was on defense. He would often register as the top defensive guard in the league by a large margin. In the 2018 playoffs, well past his peak, he did a surprisingly good job when switched on to KD who’s a full foot taller. I’d have CP3 > Curry right now although they’re both very close and both clearly top 15 all-time players IMO.

[LukaTheGOAT]

Another thing I would like to touch on, because I don't appreciate seemingly the attack on Paul's character was the comment

"In '16-17, are you considering that in addition to Paul having one foot out the door, he missed a quarter of the season? Probably not."

Once again, what basis is there that Paul was ready to leave the Clippers in 17? What is the evidence? Per Wikipedia, "he Clippers ultimately decided to trade Paul because they were unwilling to offer him the contract extension that he was seeking and they did not want to lose him for nothing once he became a free agent. "

So basically, the money Paul wanted, he was not going to receive with the Clippers, and therefore they made the decision to trade him away. I've seen the very same commentator say there was nothing wrong with James Harden wanting to leave OKC because he wanted more money, so I would hope this same logic applies to Paul? And once again, where is the evidence that Chris Paul had one foot out the door, as if he wasn't trying?

In 2017 despite missing 21 games, in per-possession metric rankings Paul

ESPN RPM-Ranked #3 (#6 in total wins)

NBA Shot Charts RAPM-#2

RAPTOR-#1 (#9 in Total WAR)

Backpicks BPM-#5

So once again, he looked like a top 5 player when he actually played, and certainly didn't seem like someone who had "one foot out the door."

Then once again, similar to my post about his 2011 season, there is plenty of evidence he actually ramped up his level of play from the RS to the PS, giving everything he had to win.

In the metrics,

his Backpicks BPM goes from 6.1 to 7.8

RAPTOR goes from a league leading 8.9 to a 10.4

His scoring jumps from an inflation adjusted 21.8 pts per 75 (rTS% of 6.1%) in the RS to 28.5 pts per 75 (rTS% of 6.5%).

His estimated shots created goes from 14.6 shots per 100 possessions to 18.3 shots per 100 possessions.

The jumps in scoring and creation are gigantic, so once again I am stuck asking, how was Chris Paul lacking and playing with "one foot out the door." These seem to be more narratives, that aren't really backed up by any hard proof.

[cpower]

we need to lock up this thread FAST before more people come up with excuses for the Point Fraud.

[Onus]

I also find it hilarious that Curry plays on STACKED teams and yet opposing coaches constantly choose to double team him at half court and let the others beat them. Yet no one constantly doubles Lebron, Luka, CP3, Nash, Harden to get the ball out of their hands at all costs and yet Curry is the one that supposedly plays on stacked teams.

[GSP]

I also find it hilarious that Curry plays on STACKED teams and yet opposing coaches constantly choose to double team him at half court and let the others beat them. Yet no one constantly doubles Lebron, Luka, CP3, Nash, Harden to get the ball out of their hands at all costs and yet Curry is the one that supposedly plays on stacked teams.

Do Steph fans realize defense is part of the game? It feels very hard for them to grasp. His defenses have been absolutely loaded since 14 and he's ranged from bad to average that whole span and still gets taken out of the game routinely for defensive possessions. He's prolly had more stacked defensive support than any player in history actually

Oh and historically his teams have mostly been successfully in playoffs due to their defensive resilience while the offenses have struggled specially in the non Kd years

[MartinToVaught]

Once again, what basis is there that Paul was ready to leave the Clippers in 17?

The way he quit on his team in a Game 7 at home and started screaming at his teammates like a 2-year-old was a pretty obvious indication in hindsight.

[Onus]

I also find it hilarious that Curry plays on STACKED teams and yet opposing coaches constantly choose to double team him at half court and let the others beat them. Yet no one constantly doubles Lebron, Luka, CP3, Nash, Harden to get the ball out of their hands at all costs and yet Curry is the one that supposedly plays on stacked teams.

Do Steph fans realize defense is part of the game? It feels very hard for them to grasp. His defenses have been absolutely loaded since 14 and he's ranged from bad to average that whole span and still gets taken out of the game routinely for defensive possessions. He's prolly had more stacked defensive support than any player in history actually

Oh and historically his teams have mostly been successfully in playoffs due to their defensive resilience while the offenses have struggled specially in the non Kd years

Isn't everyone talking about offense in this thread?

Yes the warriors were stacked DEFENSIVELY, but offensively they are not stacked. They struggle on offense because they lack offensive talent. They only survive because Curry gets doubled at the half court and Draymond gets free rim runs in the half court and even then teams have been able to stop Draymond. So we've countered with secondary handoffs so we can get the ball back to Steph and he can shoot. We're more akin to the Iverson Sixers than we are to the Nash Suns and yet people want to say we get shut down in the playoffs or that Curry's numbers decline in the playoffs. It's because the Warriors lack offensive talent that would make other teams pay for doubling him, so teams double him with impunity and our offense craters.

Yes our defensive talent has always been GREAT. ABSOLUTELY. But when you don't have help on offense your numbers are going to drop in the playoffs when teams key in. But Curry's numbers drop because he doesn't have a lot of help on offense. And yet people in this thread are constantly talking about Curry's offensive numbers and them dropping or not being super high or that their ortg isn't spectacular and it's because there's no offensive help. We constantly play 2 guys that aren't threats and always at least 1 in Draymond who teams haven't guarded in years.