2021-22 NBA Season Discussion

[parsnips33]

I'm gonna say something that might make me look very stupid:

I think Looney can do a good job switched on to Doncic. I don't think that's gonna be the matchup they will hunt, at least not for long.

I agree the turnstile Poole and Curry will be hunted as they were to great success in the regular season.

I think Payton would've pretty much taken all of Poole's minutes this series if he was good to go

[Doctor MJ]

Let's draw a distinction here:

1. Tired of the monotony of one team always winning? Makes sense when one team keeps winning every year, like the Bulls circa '92-93 or '97-98, but not in '95-96.

2. Tired of your team losing, and not wanting a contender to make a comeback because you don't want to lose to them again even though it's been a while since you dealt with that? Cool, but that's not monotony, that's just being a bitter fan.

So if what you're saying is that such statements are simply about bitter fans now having a place to voice their bitterness, there's truth to it, but I think people need to get some perspective when most people who think "not the Warriors again" are the same people who said "the Warriors are done!" a long time ago.

Completely disagree and I think you're making a very uncharitable reading of people of the Warriors since you like watching them play.

A lot of people who said "Warriors are done" were really saying "I hope the Warriors are done and am going to interpret ambiguous data as saying they are done"

And a 2 year reprieve isn't much. The idea that the clock should instantly re-set is naive. It is the exact same core, sans Durant that has been going around since 2015. If you're someone who likes to see new teams constantly cycle on the scene it isn't being "bitter fans" it is just people who want variety.

You dislike watching Harden/Luka ball. If one of them played on a team that dominated for half decade, disappeared for 2 years and cameback with the same core would you really say "hey here are some fresh faces" or would you say "oh god this sucks

Ah well, I'd be inclined to say I process things pretty differently. I'm not a good fan. As an Angeleno Laker fan I spent more time telling fellow Laker fans the issues I saw with the club even as they won championships. When the Lakers lost to the Pistons I was glad, but not because I was tired of seeing the Lakers in the finals, but because I liked the attitude of the Pistons players better than the guys on my team. That might seem like a minor difference to others, and I'll acknowledge some similarity in the sense that prior years fed into my perception of that year...but a brand new contender can absolutely draw my ire in a similar way.

I would disagree with you that the gap from 2019 to 2022 isn't a long time for most fans.

On the other hand, I think it's clear that if you learn to hate a team, there's no amount of time that would make you glad to see them back on top.

When I call people "bitter fans", it might just sound like a personal attack, but the reality is that it marks them as something of a special hard-core group. For those who are less invested in one happens in any given year, and who tend to get drawn in by storylines that they have some grasp on, seeing old teams come back again generally adds to their interest more so than watching two random teams that aren't likely to be back again.

[Dr Positivity]

In the rising Sun timeline Payne follows his 29pt Clippers game with continuing to be hot the rest of the playoffs like 2019 VanVleet, and the Suns win the title in 6 due to that bench burst helping them beat the Bucks in game 4 or 6, and holding homecourt in Game 5. He continues to improve the next year like post title FVV giving them certified 3 headed monster at guard, allowing Paul to rest, and after confidence of previous run James Jones to signs someone else but Shamet. The Suns make another run to the finals.

In the dying Sun timeline Payne disappears the rest of the playoffs, the Suns blow a 2-0 finals lead after losing winnable games in games 4-6, and after a regression season he drops a -9.0 BPM in the playoffs and gets benched for Shamet as they lose by 30+ in Game 7 at home to Mavs.

[falcolombardi]

I'm gonna say something that might make me look very stupid:

I think Looney can do a good job switched on to Doncic. I don't think that's gonna be the matchup they will hunt, at least not for long.

I agree the turnstile Poole and Curry will be hunted as they were to great success in the regular season.

I think Payton would've pretty much taken all of Poole's minutes this series if he was good to go

can warriors offense really afford not to play poole?

[Outside]

Regarding who will guard Luka, it's more about what the Warriors will choose to give up -- will it be Luka or the others? Probably a combo depending on the situation. For example, single cover him on the perimeter and help on him in the post, that type of thing. I'd expect them to mix up the coverages so that it's not the same thing all the time. Probably a fair share of zone. I don't know that the Suns used zone much.

Payton would be useful, but Iguodala has been absent as a player most of the year. He's 14th on the team with only 603 minutes played in the RS, which is well behind Klay (941 minutes) who only played 32 games and was on minutes and B2B restrictions for a while, and even Moses Moody (607) who got only token playing time in most games when he did play. Iguodala has played only 42 minutes in the PS. This is a farewell tour for him, and most of his value is as a veteran voice and de facto assistant coach. When he has played, he hasn't been all that good.

Juan Toscano Anderson may help defensively, but his offense isn't very good, and the defense can ignore him more than Draymond. Kuminga isn't ready. He giveth, and he taketh away. He provides energy and can be good, but the lapses are just too frequent. Kerr may try him sometimes just to see how it goes.

The real question is how much Otto Porter, Jr. plays. He rebounds, plays good D, and adds yet another guy who can stretch the floor. They need him healthy.

The Warriors wore Jokic down by forcing him to defend in space on the perimeter, and there's no reason why that wouldn't work on Luka also. The Suns hunted him mercilessly in the fourth quarter of that one game but then went away from it.

The Mavs defense is very good, but I wouldn't say it's better than what the Warriors just saw against Memphis. After Ja went down, Memphis was a defensive monster.

Possession will be key. The Warriors outrebounded Memphis, the RS leader in rebounds. Dallas was 24th in RPG in the RS and 15th of 16 teams in the PS. The Warriors are of course a turnover machine, and they need to limit the incredibly stupid high-risk passes that drive their fans absolutely nuts and are gifts to the opponent. Dallas has been very good at not turning the ball over in both the RS and PS. How the rebounding and turnovers balance out will tell a lot about who has the advantage.

Who would you turn to to round out the rotation if OPJ is still out?

Assumed top 6:

Steph/Poole
Klay
Wiggins
Dray
Looney

Good question. If OPJ is out, then the options are limited. My guess is that they go with Kuminga and Lee first, with a little Bjelica, and even less Moody and JTA. Fill the spot by committee, see who is on and ride that guy a little more. Like I said, they need OPJ. With Payton and OPJ out, their depth ain't so deep.

[GSP]

Read on Twitter

Draymond has arguably changed the game just as much as Steph if not more

[Outside]

I agree the turnstile Poole and Curry will be hunted as they were to great success in the regular season.

I think Payton would've pretty much taken all of Poole's minutes this series if he was good to go

can warriors offense really afford not to play poole?

Yeah, giving Payton all of Poole's minutes would never happen. Poole is inconsistent, but his offensive impact can be significant. The combination of his three-point shooting to space the floor and drives to the hoop is special. He was the third-leading scorer in the Memphis series, right behind Klay. His defense can be problematic, but I think that's overstated somewhat.

Having Steph, Klay, Wiggins, and Poole to spread the floor, plus hopefully Otto Porter, Jr., puts tremendous pressure on the defense. You can play at least two, often three, and sometimes four of those guys at all times. With the ball and player movement, one of those guys is open on most plays. It puts the defense into scramble mode and opens up driving lines and other opportunities at the rim. Payton has his strengths on offense, but that's mostly as a finisher. Payton was averaging 1.1 3PA in the PS. Poole is averaging 6.3 3PA and shooting 39.1% on threes. He's just up and down from game to game, but so is Klay. And Steph. And Wiggins.

[70sFan]

Read on Twitter

Draymond has arguably changed the game just as much as Steph if not more

Another reason to root for Mavs

[jalengreen]

Read on Twitter

Draymond has arguably changed the game just as much as Steph if not more

horford listed at 6'9 if anyone else was wondering like i was.

[parsnips33]

I think Payton would've pretty much taken all of Poole's minutes this series if he was good to go

can warriors offense really afford not to play poole?

Yeah, giving Payton all of Poole's minutes would never happen. Poole is inconsistent, but his offensive impact can be significant. The combination of his three-point shooting to space the floor and drives to the hoop is special. He was the third-leading scorer in the Memphis series, right behind Klay. His defense can be problematic, but I think that's overstated somewhat.

Having Steph, Klay, Wiggins, and Poole to spread the floor, plus hopefully Otto Porter, Jr., puts tremendous pressure on the defense. You can play at least two, often three, and sometimes four of those guys at all times. With the ball and player movement, one of those guys is open on most plays. It puts the defense into scramble mode and opens up driving lines and other opportunities at the rim. Payton has his strengths on offense, but that's mostly as a finisher. Payton was averaging 1.1 3PA in the PS. Poole is averaging 6.3 3PA and shooting 39.1% on threes. He's just up and down from game to game, but so is Klay. And Steph. And Wiggins.

You're not wrong and I probably overstated it. I do think closing lineup would ideally not have Poole against the Mavs. Especially because Steph tends to have the ball a lot at the end of games, which takes away some of Poole's value anyways. Hopefully he can bring enough on offense this series to offset his defense, but I think this will be a rough round for him

[Texas Chuck]

I mean Maxi Kleber is pretty much the analog of the modern big. Obviously he's not an elite player so I'm not suggesting KG/Anthony Davis here, but he can switch the PNR, he makes open 3's and importantly he's an above the break shooter, rarely in the corner, and provides some rim protection as well.

He's having to play center full-time in these playoffs, but Dallas has also basically used him a wing at times, including both of the last two years in the playoffs where he got the Kawhi assignment because DFS was too slight in Rick's eyes.

Pretty neat little option to have off the bench.

[GSP]

I mean Maxi Kleber is pretty much the analog of the modern big. Obviously he's not an elite player so I'm not suggesting KG/Anthony Davis here, but he can switch the PNR, he makes open 3's and importantly he's an above the break shooter, rarely in the corner, and provides some rim protection as well.

He's having to play center full-time in these playoffs, but Dallas has also basically used him a wing at times, including both of the last two years in the playoffs where he got the Kawhi assignment because DFS was too slight in Rick's eyes.

Pretty neat little option to have off the bench.

Kleber is too slow to stick with Pg that's prolly why and Dfs locked the **** out of Pg so it was prolly the right move

[falcolombardi]

is kinda funny that we (i include myself) are only talking about dallas vs warriors while mostly ignoring heat series again lol, poor miami

[Texas Chuck]

I mean Maxi Kleber is pretty much the analog of the modern big. Obviously he's not an elite player so I'm not suggesting KG/Anthony Davis here, but he can switch the PNR, he makes open 3's and importantly he's an above the break shooter, rarely in the corner, and provides some rim protection as well.

He's having to play center full-time in these playoffs, but Dallas has also basically used him a wing at times, including both of the last two years in the playoffs where he got the Kawhi assignment because DFS was too slight in Rick's eyes.

Pretty neat little option to have off the bench.

Kleber is too slow to stick with Pg that's prolly why and Dfs locked the **** out of Pg so it was prolly the right move

No. Rick openly came out and said Maxi was their best best on Kawhi. This was about the primary threat, not the secondary one.

Now Kawhi worked over Kleber badly so it didn't work out very well, but Rick Carlisle is always a guy who goes for the head of the beast. Just like in 2011, he took his chances with Wade, but focused the defensive attention heavily on Lebron. Same against the Clippers--he was primarily worried about Kawhi and rightfully so.

This was never about Paul George.

[Texas Chuck]

is kinda funny that we (i include myself) are only talking about dallas vs warriors while mostly ignoring heat series again lol, poor miami

Sorry, part of this is me being a Mavs homer. We don't get to talk a lot of Mavs around here. Oh we talk some Dirk and sometimes some Luka, but other than that, its rare.

Plus we have quite a few Warriors fans here too which has an impact.

I'm very interested in the East series too though. Hopefully Lowry can be healthy enough to give Miami something. They need all hands on deck against that Celtics defense. Vincent played pretty well all things considered, but I'd want Kyle out there for this one.

[Heej]

In the rising Sun timeline Payne follows his 29pt Clippers game with continuing to be hot the rest of the playoffs like 2019 VanVleet, and the Suns win the title in 6 due to that bench burst helping them beat the Bucks in game 4 or 6, and holding homecourt in Game 5. He continues to improve the next year like post title FVV giving them certified 3 headed monster at guard, allowing Paul to rest, and after confidence of previous run James Jones to signs someone else but Shamet. The Suns make another run to the finals.

In the dying Sun timeline Payne disappears the rest of the playoffs, the Suns blow a 2-0 finals lead after losing winnable games in games 4-6, and after a regression season he drops a -9.0 BPM in the playoffs and gets benched for Shamet as they lose by 30+ in Game 7 at home to Mavs.

As someone who finds the way Cam Payne carries himself to be extremely irritating I for one am glad to see him regress to the s***ty roleplayer he is. The league will be better with him out of it

[sp6r=underrated]

is kinda funny that we (i include myself) are only talking about dallas vs warriors while mostly ignoring heat series again lol, poor miami

Crazy thing is you can make a strong case they've played the best out of any of the teams through the first 2 rounds.

[jalengreen]

i struggled to see the heat winning this series, i think how boston has defended KD and giannis does not bode well for butler's chances of high -level production on the offensive end which the heat will certainly need from him

i exoect herro to struggle as well

who knows when lowry will return / if he'll look any good when he does

[falcolombardi]

is kinda funny that we (i include myself) are only talking about dallas vs warriors while mostly ignoring heat series again lol, poor miami

Crazy thing is you can make a strong case they've played the best out of any of the teams through the first 2 rounds.

you could actually make a case for butler as best player in the playoffs

[sp6r=underrated]

is kinda funny that we (i include myself) are only talking about dallas vs warriors while mostly ignoring heat series again lol, poor miami

Crazy thing is you can make a strong case they've played the best out of any of the teams through the first 2 rounds.

you could actually make a case for butler as best player in the playoffs

just a phenomenal post-season and is basically confirming his HOF chances this year.