Post-Mortem: 2021-22 Phoenix Suns

[Jesus_H_Macy]

When they played the Pels and had trouble putting them away, I figured it was something like the young Hawks in 2008 sort of giving the Celtics and their epic squad that year some trouble in the 1st round. They were young, athletic, playing with house money and didn't know any better.

So I figured they'd actually have an easier time with a less athletic, slower paced Mavericks. And for the first 2 games, that looked to be the case. It looked like the Pels were really were the tougher matchup. After Game 5, I figured this was just another one of those series where the home team dominates. The announcer even flat out said early in Game 7 that Luka was the only Mav who's game seemed to travel with him on the road. I didn't figure it'd be a cakewalk for Phx , but nobody would've ever expected the no show performance we saw.

I kind of thought the same thing - scrappy team with strengths where our weaknesses were, former assistance coach who knows us and CP especially inside and out. Or at least that's what I wanted to tell myself. Alarm bells were still ringing in the back of my mind considering how we ended the regular season and then it continued into the playoffs. I didn't feel good about Game 7 going into it at all because of how lifeless the Suns and CP had looked since Game 3 (whatever happened in Game 5 notwithstanding) but I didn't expect them to be wholly unprepared, scared, and already mentally checked out. Something with this team's mind broke in this series. I don't know what exactly needs to or should change in the summer but this team is cooked. If the only change is let D.A. walk and replace him with some journeyman C I really question whether or not I'll be able to watch next year (who am I kidding, I will take all the punishment the Suns can hand out to their fans and ask for more please)

[Backcountry]

Sounds like a job for the PJ Tucker contender-mercenary tour, part 3!

[dc]

538 broke it down

They say the key to the series is that, in Games 3-7, the Mavs attacked CP3 on the pick and roll historically as much or more than he's ever been attacked since they started keeping track of this stuff in 2013-14. They wanted Luka backing him down as much as possible. It was either that or Brunson going right at him off the dribble. They wanted to physically wear him out with these body blows and it seemed to work, as CP3 scored 47 points in the first 2 games, but only 47 points over Games 3-7.

[holdenwait]

how deflating it must be to go thru a 82 game season , leading it the whole way pretty much then to crash out soooo embarrassingly that everyone's talking about blowing it all up.. and most of the roster's gonna have to show up in a few months to start the regular season grind again, being clowned the whole time.

just yikes

[Wallace_Wallace]

Booker & Bridges are absolute keepers, and Chris Paul is probably an untradeable piece.....so that's that

Crowder & Payne are dime a dozen players, they can be traded. I will center a trade around them and Matisse Thybulle.
Cam Johnson knows his role as a sixth man coming off the bench. Unless the right deal comes along, he can stay.
Ayton has been disappointing this season. I'm doing a S&T to Indiana for Myles Turner and Malcolm Brogdon (Phoenix may have to give up another piece).

Payton, Mainwright, Saric, out.

Paul/Holiday
Booker/Brogdon/Shamet
Bridges/Johnson
Thybulle/Craig
Turner/Biyombo/McGee

The Suns still have a bunch of solid defenders in Bridges/Thybulle/Craig. Holiday, Booker & Brogdon can relief more of Chris Paul's ball handling duties so Paul doesn't have to do much heavy lifting until crunch time, and Turner is almost the same defender that Ayton is (judging from watching him in the past, I'd say more versatile) while adding another wrinkle of him being able to shoot.

Or just stay put. Retain Ayton, have Booker/Bridges/Holiday share more of the ball handling duties while playing Chris Paul in the late stage Tim Duncan role (25 minutes max).

[Synciere]

I think they need to do what they can to force a sign and trade with Ayton to get a TPE and a pick or something, while I know Suns fans and others are dreaming about huge returns, that is what most sign and trades actually bring back.

With that TPE and pick they need to turn around and trade for a good wing defender, sign a suitable defensive starting C. They need to buy into the draft and find a high quality young backup PG that can develop into a high end starter.

BAsically this year they have to focus on actually getting the holes on the roster fixed while not losing too much in the process.

They literally have one of the best wing defenders in the league in Bridges. Crowder is good there too. Trading Ayton just gets rid of their best interior defender, which they clearly need.

[Synciere]

The first thing you address is the "internal" problem between player and coach, and maybe one of them has to go. But, if you can fix it to where both parties can work through it, then you look for a point guard to help Paul.

And you pay Ayton. Gotta have everyone fully invested and that won’t happen if your #1 overall pick is salty he hasn’t been paid.

[Synciere]

The good role player making $18MM per year has almost turned into a bad value contract, even if it's market value for an above average starter.

13/5/3 on 48/39/93 is fine for a role player.

That's not the point. The challenge is paying $18MM per year for that kind of production. Market value for an average role player isn't good value.

There’s nothing inherently wrong with Bridges contract, especially if he’s providing top 5 defense on the wing and can score more in the right matchups. He’s a fourth option, but we’ve seen him have scoring expulsions when one of Paul, Booker, or Ayton are out, especially during Paul’s injury.

[Synciere]

Teams need to start asking themselves about their overall strategy and roster construction. The roles of the traditional 5 and traditional 1 are being challenged by teams that roll out big guards and big wings who are more or less interchangeable on both ends of the floor.

Teams are going 5-out, meaning every guard/wing on the floor has to be able to keep players in front of them and be long enough to contest shots on the perimeter. Every big has to be able rotate out to the perimeter and guard down multiple positions.

The Suns' season this year was eerily similar to the Jazz's last year--best record and #1 seed, loses in the 2nd round to the #4 seed who dominates by spreading the floor, sharing the ball and playing through a highly skilled big guard.

Teams aren't running screen/rolls or other sophisticated actions. They're just spreading the floor, drawing a switch, and driving on the weakest defender they can find.

Not every team, rather most, teams don’t have the personnel to go 5 out. And not every matchup requires that skill. The Mavs only got that ability after trading Porzingis for Dinwiddie. It’s the Clippers, Warriors, and maybe Heat that do that well enough to beat anyone using it? And the Warriors are iffy.

[TeamTragic]

Booker & Bridges are absolute keepers, and Chris Paul is probably an untradeable piece.....so that's that

Crowder & Payne are dime a dozen players, they can be traded. I will center a trade around them and Matisse Thybulle.
Cam Johnson knows his role as a sixth man coming off the bench. Unless the right deal comes along, he can stay.
Ayton has been disappointing this season. I'm doing a S&T to Indiana for Myles Turner and Malcolm Brogdon (Phoenix may have to give up another piece).

Payton, Mainwright, Saric, out.

Paul/Holiday
Booker/Brogdon/Shamet
Bridges/Johnson
Thybulle/Craig
Turner/Biyombo/McGee

The Suns still have a bunch of solid defenders in Bridges/Thybulle/Craig. Holiday, Booker & Brogdon can relief more of Chris Paul's ball handling duties so Paul doesn't have to do much heavy lifting until crunch time, and Turner is almost the same defender that Ayton is (judging from watching him in the past, I'd say more versatile) while adding another wrinkle of him being able to shoot.

Or just stay put. Retain Ayton, have Booker/Bridges/Holiday share more of the ball handling duties while playing Chris Paul in the late stage Tim Duncan role (25 minutes max).

I love what you put together but please stop with Holiday playing minutes. Monty HATES **** Holiday (lol) and based on the altercation he does not like Ayton very much either.

[Wallace_Wallace]

Booker & Bridges are absolute keepers, and Chris Paul is probably an untradeable piece.....so that's that

Crowder & Payne are dime a dozen players, they can be traded. I will center a trade around them and Matisse Thybulle.
Cam Johnson knows his role as a sixth man coming off the bench. Unless the right deal comes along, he can stay.
Ayton has been disappointing this season. I'm doing a S&T to Indiana for Myles Turner and Malcolm Brogdon (Phoenix may have to give up another piece).

Payton, Mainwright, Saric, out.

Paul/Holiday
Booker/Brogdon/Shamet
Bridges/Johnson
Thybulle/Craig
Turner/Biyombo/McGee

The Suns still have a bunch of solid defenders in Bridges/Thybulle/Craig. Holiday, Booker & Brogdon can relief more of Chris Paul's ball handling duties so Paul doesn't have to do much heavy lifting until crunch time, and Turner is almost the same defender that Ayton is (judging from watching him in the past, I'd say more versatile) while adding another wrinkle of him being able to shoot.

Or just stay put. Retain Ayton, have Booker/Bridges/Holiday share more of the ball handling duties while playing Chris Paul in the late stage Tim Duncan role (25 minutes max).

I love what you put together but please stop with Holiday playing minutes. Monty HATES **** Holiday (lol) and based on the altercation he does not like Ayton very much either.

When Holiday plays, it’s more calming than Payne controlling the second unit. If everything I said came true, Brogdon will be such a major piece for the Suns and Thybulle can takeover as the primary defender guarding the best perimeter player while Bridges advances his offensive game to the next level (he’s improved every season).

The Suns are still in a good place, even the second option, run it back with a little retooling would be fine even though I still would like Thybulle without giving up too much.

[TeamTragic]

Booker & Bridges are absolute keepers, and Chris Paul is probably an untradeable piece.....so that's that

Crowder & Payne are dime a dozen players, they can be traded. I will center a trade around them and Matisse Thybulle.
Cam Johnson knows his role as a sixth man coming off the bench. Unless the right deal comes along, he can stay.
Ayton has been disappointing this season. I'm doing a S&T to Indiana for Myles Turner and Malcolm Brogdon (Phoenix may have to give up another piece).

Payton, Mainwright, Saric, out.

Paul/Holiday
Booker/Brogdon/Shamet
Bridges/Johnson
Thybulle/Craig
Turner/Biyombo/McGee

The Suns still have a bunch of solid defenders in Bridges/Thybulle/Craig. Holiday, Booker & Brogdon can relief more of Chris Paul's ball handling duties so Paul doesn't have to do much heavy lifting until crunch time, and Turner is almost the same defender that Ayton is (judging from watching him in the past, I'd say more versatile) while adding another wrinkle of him being able to shoot.

Or just stay put. Retain Ayton, have Booker/Bridges/Holiday share more of the ball handling duties while playing Chris Paul in the late stage Tim Duncan role (25 minutes max).

I love what you put together but please stop with Holiday playing minutes. Monty HATES **** Holiday (lol) and based on the altercation he does not like Ayton very much either.

When Holiday plays, it’s more calming than Payne controlling the second unit. If everything I said came true, Brogdon will be such a major piece for the Suns and Thybulle can takeover as the primary defender guarding the best perimeter player while Bridges advances his offensive game to the next level (he’s improved every season).

The Suns are still in a good place, even the second option, run it back with a little retooling would be fine even though I still would like Thybulle without giving up too much.

I'm not disagreeing with you but Monty is a dumbass that won't stop playing Payne. I want Holiday to get minutes but he would rather play no one while Payne/Holiday/Payton sit on the bench.

You have no idea how infuriating it has been since the playoffs have started.

[jourdy]

Suns need more 3pt shooting.
They can S&T Ayton to the Mavs for Davis Bertans.

PERFECT!

[dygaction]

Suns need more 3pt shooting.
They can S&T Ayton to the Mavs for Davis Bertans.

PERFECT!

Stop!! Many real general managers are using here for ideas and if you do not put in green font, you may mislead an organization...

[ChillyStare]

For me Chris Paul always associated as in one man Buds Wizards. Wherever he goes, he creates a great winning culture that makes team play at 99% of its capabilities in regular season. But the team also always falls flat when it meets superior talent or just a team smart enough to analyze through their schemes.
For what happens next for Suns... I would keep everything as is, but try to lessen as much responsibilities from Paul. Make Ayton more that P/R big and try to find proper backup PG.

[garrick]

The Suns championship run last season raised everyone's expectations for too much for a team that hasn't sniffed the playoffs in over a decade and now it's back to most fans and NBA pundits trashing the Suns on a nightly basis.

On the positive side the Suns took the Mavs to 7 games so it's not like they got swept and were out of the entire series, certainly some roster tweaking and coaching changes need to be made but you don't need to overreact and just blow the team up because we didn't win it all this season.

What doomed us this series was we did not have a backup PG nor have a game strategy of how to run the offense without CP3. We also did not a good job of developing Ayton and running the offense more through him besides the PnR, while the PnR is good low post play for Ayton was often an afterthought and we just didn't throw it in there when he had good position.

Some of it is on him but it was pretty clear he was always the third or fourth option on offensive sets.

[Jabroni Lames]

Suns need more 3pt shooting.
They can S&T Ayton to the Mavs for Davis Bertans.

PERFECT!

To the Raptors for Gary Trent Jr. is more realistic and would be excellent value in a sign & trade scenario.

[Statlanta]

I think resigning Ayton is the right move then again I thought not extending and seeing what the market says was the right move. If Ayton is brought back and mopes again we might have a Ben Simmons situation

[Phystic]

This was an epic collapse at home, but the Suns had a great run these last 2 years. They had their bubble run (though it didn't qualify them for the playoffs) that piqued the attention of CP3.

People forget that before the bubble run, they were kind of a team going in circles of sorts. Nobody figured adding an old CP3 was going to make them a contender, but they made the Finals the very next year and finished not only with the best record in the league this year, but 1st in several metrics that pointed to them being the favorites.

They looked like a deep, complete squad. They played both ends. They were good in the clutch. They seemed to have every attribute of a title favorite, but in the end their success just relied too much on a 36/37 year old PG.

Going to speak on behalf of Suns fans (they can feel free to disagree though). What is so enraging, disappointing, disgusting, soul crushing about this season is that all of those things you mentioned - deep, both ends, clutch, balanced - they were all true. 100% true. The Suns, though I never counted out the Warriors, were far and away the best team in the league. And it wasn't just regular season ball - they were on the course of destiny. 68-win pace. Then they locked up the best record in the league with a few weeks to go in the season and just basically quit playing and acted like they already wont the title. Myself and many others tried to convince ourselves that they were just bored and were waiting for the important games to start but deep down inside I knew that a team like the Suns who hasn't won anything can't just turn it off and on like that when they want. And I was unfortunately right. Their D never came back except for in spurts. Their bench started playing like absolute trash. The clutchness was apparently purely CP3 and his game up and vanished like a fart in the wind. It was like everything that made them so good and made us fans really start to believe this was the year was just ripped right out from under us. Oh you like your 68-win pace team, setting all kinds of records and getting close to others? Enjoy it for 58 games and then we'll replace them with the Utah Jazz (sorry Jazz fans) when you're not paying attention and thinking about the playoff run. The ultimate bait and switch. I don't know what team showed up to the '22 playoffs but it wasn't the October to March Phoenix Suns.

Couldn't agree more. Once the Suns locked up first you could tell in the game vs warriors and grizzlies. Despite seeding being set those were games we could use to measure ourselves. And they got severely outplayed.

They absolutely mailed it in thinking they could coast to the finals. They disrespected both pelicans and mavs by thinking they could just play half-assed basketball and still win.

I don't even care about the jawing, that's part of sports. It's the fact they clearly didn't believe Mavs stood a chance. And now they're the laughing stock of the league and Suns fans are once again in the gutter with a what if

[Phystic]

Doesn't sound like Ayton is happy there in Phoenix. First, he gets screwed by the owner not wanting to pay him and now the coach not wanting to play him. I just don't see it turning into anything positive unless he gets paid a max contract. Then, maybe he turns his attitude around. I could see that being a big drag on the Suns next season if the situation isn't rectified. Not exactly conducive to trying to win a championship.

Over simplification..ayton wasn't screwed. The Suns just opted to make him show he was worth a max.

And simply saying coach didn't want to play him is pretty absurd. It was a 40pt game and something happened on the bench, we don't know for sure but based on Monty, Books, and CP3s post game demeanor to the question seems like something relatively serious happened.

With all that said, I haven't seen any reports throughout the season, this is the first time. Not sure if this was an ongoing internal issue or if it was frustrations for this game. So not sure it's irreparable