Tatum VS Luka

[iggymcfrack]

I doubt Dallas would get as far as they are if you swap Tatum for Luka. Now if you put Luka with Celtics supporting cast, easy win for the Celtics in this series and we wouldn't have this discussion.

No way. The Celtics whole defense is built on being able to switch every screen and the offense never having anyone to attack. Luka would kill that. Honestly, the Celtics probably don’t even beat Brooklyn if you swap them.

Meanwhile the Mavs have done well without Luka. Add a two way superstar to that motion team with Brunson as the 1b offensive option and that team I think does get better.

[Duke4life831]

I don’t like either of these two but how is this a comparison?

Luka is carrying a bunch of nobodies.

Tatum isn’t even definitively the best player on his own team and he’s surrounded by talented scrappy players. This thread shouldn’t exist.

The guy that was a 6th in MVP voting and going to be a 1st team All NBA guy isnt even the definitive best player on his own team? Okay...

[rapstarter]

The 'not even close''s in this thread makes no sense and has zero grounding in reality when you look at the numbers and results

Dallas supporting cast is better than people give them credit for. That said they (including Luka) have won zero road games this series and have got blown out badly in two of them. Let's see where they are in a game 7 on the road

This is true, but the Boston supporting cast is still a MUCH better one. Plus, the Suns are a better team than the Bucks without Middleton.

[dygaction]

Both got a huge game 7 win yesterday.
Now imagine if these two young guys can both make it to the finals and go on toe to toe...

[Texas Chuck]

I doubt Dallas would get as far as they are if you swap Tatum for Luka. Now if you put Luka with Celtics supporting cast, easy win for the Celtics in this series and we wouldn't have this discussion.

No way. The Celtics whole defense is built on being able to switch every screen and the offense never having anyone to attack. Luka would kill that. Honestly, the Celtics probably don’t even beat Brooklyn if you swap them.

I mean I agree plug and play isn't a thing and we definitely shouldn't suggest either team gets better adding the other player. But worth noting Dallas switches everything and while Luka does get attacked other than the 4th quarter of game 2 against the Suns, this really hasn't got Dallas abused. Luka is definitely no Tatum defensively, but he's not Steve Nash or Trae Young either where there is nothing he can do.

[tsherkin]

I doubt Dallas would get as far as they are if you swap Tatum for Luka. Now if you put Luka with Celtics supporting cast, easy win for the Celtics in this series and we wouldn't have this discussion.

No way. The Celtics whole defense is built on being able to switch every screen and the offense never having anyone to attack. Luka would kill that. Honestly, the Celtics probably don’t even beat Brooklyn if you swap them.

I mean I agree plug and play isn't a thing and we definitely shouldn't suggest either team gets better adding the other player. But worth noting Dallas switches everything and while Luka does get attacked other than the 4th quarter of game 2 against the Suns, this really hasn't got Dallas abused. Luka is definitely no Tatum defensively, but he's not Steve Nash or Trae Young either where there is nothing he can do.

True. If Luka was so vulnerable, where has that been since that game as Phoenix was losing?

[lonniefire]

Please bump this thread if they meet in the Finals lol.

[Mr B]

I’m here for all those Luka homers that are gonna say “ITS LUKA AND ITS NOT EVEN CLOSE”

Last thread that was made about this you had people saying Luka is equivalent to Jokic while Tatum is equivalent to Vucevic

Give me Tatum for this season and moving forward. Can play elite defense, and has stamina to play 45+ minutes. You all had a nice close up of Tatum’s passing which has gotten a lot better so he doesn’t really have any flaws in his game at this point, can only improve in areas. I think it’s close and don’t mind anyone who says Luka but anyone who says Luka is way better as if he’s prime Jordan right now are ridiculous

I definitely wouldn’t say Tatum is comparable to Vucevic. He’s closer to Kawhi. Luka is closer to Labron. Tatum has been great just not quite at Luka’s level.

[Michael Jackson]

I doubt Dallas would get as far as they are if you swap Tatum for Luka. Now if you put Luka with Celtics supporting cast, easy win for the Celtics in this series and we wouldn't have this discussion.

No way. The Celtics whole defense is built on being able to switch every screen and the offense never having anyone to attack. Luka would kill that. Honestly, the Celtics probably don’t even beat Brooklyn if you swap them.

I mean I agree plug and play isn't a thing and we definitely shouldn't suggest either team gets better adding the other player. But worth noting Dallas switches everything and while Luka does get attacked other than the 4th quarter of game 2 against the Suns, this really hasn't got Dallas abused. Luka is definitely no Tatum defensively, but he's not Steve Nash or Trae Young either where there is nothing he can do.

It's also not like you just swap the guys, Udoka or Kidd would make adjustments with the new players to schemes to maximize it. Yup Tatum is better defensively, but Luka can wear a team out more on offense and that has an effect on how the other team plays. I like Tatum, but no chance do I think he is better than Luka. Could he be? Maybe, I don't foresee that outcome but they can both be elite, and worthy of discussing in that way.

[MrBigShot]

Luka's defensive woes are far overstated. He doesn't give give you positive impact defensively but he's not some huge liability. And the gap between Luka and Tatum offensively is pretty significant...Luka is superior both as a scorer and playmaker.

Tatum is in the conversation for top 5-7 players in the NBA. Luka is in the conversation for best player in the world.

[hugepatsfan]

Tatum is an elite offensive player. Luka is an elite offense.

Luka doesn't kill you on defense. Tatum elevates your defense because he's elite on that end.

Offense is more important than defense. I have Luka as easily better but both of them on track for all time greatness.

[Ascrilas]

This is like debating Pierce vs. LeBron (although Tatum is better than The Truth by a sizeable margin, I'd say). I love Tatum, he is borderline Top 5, but there are levels to this ****. Swap these two and Boston would still be in the Conference Finals, Dallas would not. Luka is one of the most transcendent offensive players I've ever seen. Jayson doesn't have that generational talent, and that's okay. Both are good enough to win a title as the first option.

[Green89]

This is like debating Pierce vs. LeBron (although Tatum is better than The Truth by a sizeable margin, I'd say). I love Tatum, he is borderline Top 5, but there are levels to this ****. Swap these two and Boston would still be in the Conference Finals, Dallas would not. Luka is one of the most transcendent offensive players I've ever seen. Jayson doesn't have that generational talent, and that's okay. Both are good enough to win a title as the first option.

Lebron's been named to an All Defensive First Team 5 times. Luka will never make any all defensive team in his career.

[DroseReturnChi]

Please bump this thread if they meet in the Finals lol.

like stop it man. you know they arent close.

[Sweet Meat Lew]

You can't know anything about basketball if you can't look at the west and realize this isn't the west that we've come to know over the last 10 years. The Mavs bested a Jazz team with severe chemistry issues, a broken Nuggets team, the Timberwolves and Pelicans. Where is this remarkable overachievement that you speak of? KP, when healthy, was a more productive player pre and post Luka. You can put THJ in that same category as well. Brunson and Dimwiddie too often get reduced to spectators while Luka over dribbles. Again, this is too much emphasis on who his teammates are. I made no mention of who had the better team. I simply said Tatum is a two way player that can fit in any team construct vs Luka who you have to carefully tailor a roster around.

I think it's a case of flash vs substance. Tatum wins by default. I'm not convinced that Luka can be the best player on a contender. He lacks the ability and even the want to affect the game on the defensive end. His production comes at the expense of his teammates. Too many times he will take the ball up court and dribble his way into a shot while his teammates watch and the defense isn't forced to work. He passes only after he has exhausted every option to score the ball leaving his teammates in poor position to get a bucket. And then you gotta take his body into consideration...to show up out of shape at his age is inexcusable. He hasn't been blessed with the most athleticism in the world...gotta wonder how long his peak will last...or how many games will injuries keep him out of moving forward. The whole picture makes you question if he's more Harden/Westbrook and less Lebron/MJ tier of superstar.

You can't know anything about basketball, and look at the Mavs actual roster and think that a 4th seed in the west is anything other rather a ridiculous overachievement. Tatum's supporting cast pure talent wise is light years ahead of what Luka has. Which is a whole bunch of players who have spent the majority of their careers as bench players, either with the Mavs or other teams. There's probably not a true NBA starter on his whole team other than Brunson and Dinwiddie. Without Luka this team is much closer to fighting for a high lottery pick. Plus the Mavs have guys who came from other teams (the ones that actually had some talent). Most of them came to the Mavs as underperformers and their performance increased significantly. Dinwiddie is obviously one, but THJ was another. Despite the fact KP didn't fit, for the most part his underlying numbers actually improved. Not sure what his production is at the expense of, but there is much more evidence that it boosts his teammates performance than reduces.

Agree about the coming into the season out of shape part, that isn't really acceptable, but he doesn't and will never have the body shape of a basketball player, just like Jokic. That part is genetics. He needs to start looking after his body better, but his body is actually probably more likely to be able withstand trauma over time than your typical skinny ectomorph body type. And the simple fact is, unlike most players in the NBA, he will never have to rely on athleticism to be a great player.

[Sweet Meat Lew]

I think it's a case of flash vs substance. Tatum wins by default. I'm not convinced that Luka can be the best player on a contender. He lacks the ability and even the want to affect the game on the defensive end. His production comes at the expense of his teammates. Too many times he will take the ball up court and dribble his way into a shot while his teammates watch and the defense isn't forced to work. He passes only after he has exhausted every option to score the ball leaving his teammates in poor position to get a bucket. And then you gotta take his body into consideration...to show up out of shape at his age is inexcusable. He hasn't been blessed with the most athleticism in the world...gotta wonder how long his peak will last...or how many games will injuries keep him out of moving forward. The whole picture makes you question if he's more Harden/Westbrook and less Lebron/MJ tier of superstar.

The truth is very different and very scary for opponents. Fat Euro with bad conditioning is top5 Nba player already, being only 23 years old. When he decides to do just step Jokic did, nobody is stopping him. And because he needs very little athleticism for his slow game, he can play, like he's playing now, till his 50th birthday. There's no top Nba player with that much room for improvement like Luka.

I completely understand that is difficult to watch fat, white Euro, to dominate Nba from Pg position.

His numbers are great. It's exciting to watch. It'll get him into the top half of the playoff bracket but he won't ever be the best player on a true contender unless he drastically changes his game, his body, and tries to become a factor on the defensive end. He won his first two playoff series this year...congrats. He's a hell of a talent but I'd rather have the player that can impact the game on both ends, doesn't miss games because he's out of shape at 23 and I can pair him with other talent without their being a significant drop off is their production.

[KGtabake]

We need someone with Jayson's skillset more than we need Luka (as presently constructed).
I always knew that Luka was a better player (for my liking) but sometimes the only thing that matters is the build up of the roster and its needs.
We need a point going forward but not a ball dominant one.

[Texas Chuck]

You can't know anything about basketball if you can't look at the west and realize this isn't the west that we've come to know over the last 10 years. The Mavs bested a Jazz team with severe chemistry issues, a broken Nuggets team, the Timberwolves and Pelicans. Where is this remarkable overachievement that you speak of?

You seem confused. Dallas beat Utah who was in fact struggling. Then they beat a team that was 8 wins clear of the field in the Suns. Not sure where you are getting those other 3 teams or why you think the Mavs had to win 4 series to get to the conference Finals when the other teams had to win 2.

wild the takes when people don't like a player. They just make stuff up and assume nobody will fact check even the most obvious things. Not going to even get into the rest of that mess when you can't get this part close.

[B_Creamy]

You can't know anything about basketball if you can't look at the west and realize this isn't the west that we've come to know over the last 10 years. The Mavs bested a Jazz team with severe chemistry issues, a broken Nuggets team, the Timberwolves and Pelicans. Where is this remarkable overachievement that you speak of?

You seem confused. Dallas beat Utah who was in fact struggling. Then they beat a team that was 8 wins clear of the field in the Suns. Not sure where you are getting those other 3 teams or why you think the Mavs had to win 4 series to get to the conference Finals when the other teams had to win 2.

wild the takes when people don't like a player. They just make stuff up and assume nobody will fact check even the most obvious things. Not going to even get into the rest of that mess when you can't get this part close.

He was talking about beating those teams in the Western conference standings though

[Floody100]

Please bump this thread if they meet in the Finals lol.

like stop it man. you know they arent close.

Man let it go lol.
I know you’re as biased as they come but just let people watch both players & decide rather than obnoxiously telling them they’re wrong if they don’t agree with you.

I’m a Celtics fan that thinks Luka is better but to say they aren’t close is a bit extreme.