Luka compared to late Lebron (~17-20) offensively

[Max123]

How would you compare both the problems Luka Doncic and late-career Lebron James (around 2017-2020) present to opposing defenses and their impacts on that end?

Edit: I am not necessarily looking for an answer regarding who is more impactful on that end (although it can certainly factor into this discussion) but moreso their stylistic differences and similarities, strengths and weaknesses on offense.

[falcolombardi]

How would you compare both the problems Luka Doncic and late-career Lebron James (around 2017-2020) present to opposing defenses and their impacts on that end?

early 30's lebron was kinda like current young luka but with better conditioning, more athletism and significatively better scoring skill for finishing in the paint

and contrary to what many think, i think lebron had a better jumpshot too

lebron was a fair amount more efficient because of those advantages

edit:and less turnovers than luka too, forgot that

edit: and better off ball value too

[70sFan]

I wouldn't compare Luka to James yet. James was far more versatile player than Luka is right now.

[dygaction]

How would you compare both the problems Luka Doncic and late-career Lebron James (around 2017-2020) present to opposing defenses and their impacts on that end?

LeBron. LeBron 17-20 was still the best player in the world. Without considering defense, he was still quite more efficient at a similar volume in scoring and orchestra the offense at least as well with less turn overs. This from a huge Luka fan.

[Max123]

I wouldn't compare Luka to James yet. James was far more versatile player than Luka is right now.

So you think they are in completely different leagues in terms of offensive impact? Fair enough. Then how would you describe the problems they present to opposing defenses and how they differ in terms of what they do on a possession-to-possession basis. Or when worded differently: how would you compare their styles of play offensively (both in terms of what they do more or less and how well they do it)?

[Max123]

How would you compare both the problems Luka Doncic and late-career Lebron James (around 2017-2020) present to opposing defenses and their impacts on that end?

early 30's lebron was kinda like current young luka but with better conditioning, more athletism and significatively better scoring skill for finishing in the paint

and contrary to what many think, i think lebron had a better jumpshot too

lebron was a fair amount more efficient because of those advantages

edit:and less turnovers than luka too, forgot that

How would you say Lebron having better conditioning, more athleticism and finishing in the paint manifested themselves in terms of how they were attacking defenses? What I mean by this is that how did their offensive approaches differ because of these differences (what did they do more or less than each other) or did they basically have the same process on offense (maybe hunt for mismatch and spread pick-and-rolls) but Lebron just did it better because of aforementioned traits?

[70sFan]

I wouldn't compare Luka to James yet. James was far more versatile player than Luka is right now.

So you think they are in completely different leagues in terms of offensive impact? Fair enough. Then how would you describe the problems they present to opposing defenses and how they differ in terms of what they do on a possession-to-possession basis. Or when worded differently: how would you compare their styles of play offensively (both in terms of what they do more or less and how well they do it)?

Their styles aren't identical, because teams became much more into hunting mismatches and trying to expose the weakest links on offensive end. LeBron didn't do that to such degree, even in the late 2010s. Doesn't mean that he wasn't capable of that.

About LeBron advantages, there are plenty of them - James was a better inside finisher and slasher, which makes him more dangerous both on-ball and off-ball. He was also stronger in the post, though he doesn't have a huge edge here. James is also a better shooter (surprisingly) and I like his decision making more.

That said, I can entertain Luka over 2020 James, at least offensively. I don't think Lakers James was on his prime offensive level anymore.

[falcolombardi]

How would you compare both the problems Luka Doncic and late-career Lebron James (around 2017-2020) present to opposing defenses and their impacts on that end?

early 30's lebron was kinda like current young luka but with better conditioning, more athletism and significatively better scoring skill for finishing in the paint

and contrary to what many think, i think lebron had a better jumpshot too

lebron was a fair amount more efficient because of those advantages

edit:and less turnovers than luka too, forgot that

How would you say Lebron having better conditioning, more athleticism and finishing in the paint manifested themselves in terms of how they were attacking defenses? What I mean by this is that how did their offensive approaches differ because of these differences (what did they do more or less than each other) or did they basically have the same process on offense (maybe hunt for mismatch and spread pick-and-rolls) but Lebron just did it better because of aforementioned traits?

he got more buckets in transition thanks to his athletism/conditioning as well as more baskets in cuts to the basket off ball, luka took more "idle" positions off ball spotting up (which i think is partially related to stamina) and ran the court less

lebron also was just a superior inside scorer, i woulf guess because of bigger body mass to absorbe contact and probably a better touch (contrary to what many people think about lebron, his touch on the rim is ridiculous)

i think luka can do more thinghs with his handle and may be better at going "fast-slow-fast" in a drive to get clean looks (but lebron has so much body mass and top end speed he can just gain momentun and then absorb contact while still finishing)

[Ryoga Hibiki]

I wouldn't compare Luka to James yet. James was far more versatile player than Luka is right now.

So you think they are in completely different leagues in terms of offensive impact? Fair enough. Then how would you describe the problems they present to opposing defenses and how they differ in terms of what they do on a possession-to-possession basis. Or when worded differently: how would you compare their styles of play offensively (both in terms of what they do more or less and how well they do it)?

Their styles aren't identical, because teams became much more into hunting mismatches and trying to expose the weakest links on offensive end. LeBron didn't do that to such degree, even in the late 2010s. Doesn't mean that he wasn't capable of that.

About LeBron advantages, there are plenty of them - James was a better inside finisher and slasher, which makes him more dangerous both on-ball and off-ball. He was also stronger in the post, though he doesn't have a huge edge here. James is also a better shooter (surprisingly) and I like his decision making more.

That said, I can entertain Luka over 2020 James, at least offensively. I don't think Lakers James was on his prime offensive level anymore.

Well, LeBron has been doing this regularly since his return to the Cavs, especially in the post season.

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[Ryoga Hibiki]

How would you compare both the problems Luka Doncic and late-career Lebron James (around 2017-2020) present to opposing defenses and their impacts on that end?

early 30's lebron was kinda like current young luka but with better conditioning, more athletism and significatively better scoring skill for finishing in the paint

and contrary to what many think, i think lebron had a better jumpshot too

lebron was a fair amount more efficient because of those advantages

edit:and less turnovers than luka too, forgot that

edit: and better off ball value too

I am not sure he had "significantly" better scoring or that he was a better passer, and I am pretty sure Luka is better shooter at this stage.
What really limits Luka is his conditioning, he should learn how to play off ball more because he can't play this way for a whole series.

___
Sent from my Nokia 3210 using RealGM mobile app

[falcolombardi]

How would you compare both the problems Luka Doncic and late-career Lebron James (around 2017-2020) present to opposing defenses and their impacts on that end?

early 30's lebron was kinda like current young luka but with better conditioning, more athletism and significatively better scoring skill for finishing in the paint

and contrary to what many think, i think lebron had a better jumpshot too

lebron was a fair amount more efficient because of those advantages

edit:and less turnovers than luka too, forgot that

edit: and better off ball value too

I am not sure he had "significantly" better scoring or that he was a better passer, and I am pretty sure Luka is better shooter at this stage.
What really limits Luka is his conditioning, he should learn how to play off ball more because he can't play this way for a whole series.

___
Sent from my Nokia 3210 using RealGM mobile app

16-18 lebron could score as much as luka with higher efficiency, he is definetely a better scorer

and luka jumpshot is fairly overated while lebron is somewhat underated, look at their percentages and lebron doesnt look worse than luka, arguably better (and is not about shot profile, lebron took tons of long 3's and hard junpers too)

[MyUniBroDavis]

I wouldn't compare Luka to James yet. James was far more versatile player than Luka is right now.

So you think they are in completely different leagues in terms of offensive impact? Fair enough. Then how would you describe the problems they present to opposing defenses and how they differ in terms of what they do on a possession-to-possession basis. Or when worded differently: how would you compare their styles of play offensively (both in terms of what they do more or less and how well they do it)?

Their styles aren't identical, because teams became much more into hunting mismatches and trying to expose the weakest links on offensive end. LeBron didn't do that to such degree, even in the late 2010s. Doesn't mean that he wasn't capable of that.

About LeBron advantages, there are plenty of them - James was a better inside finisher and slasher, which makes him more dangerous both on-ball and off-ball. He was also stronger in the post, though he doesn't have a huge edge here. James is also a better shooter (surprisingly) and I like his decision making more.

That said, I can entertain Luka over 2020 James, at least offensively. I don't think Lakers James was on his prime offensive level anymore.

On 2020 Lakers, I can agree with that in terms of the RS, but his offense in the postseason was great, especially considering the lack of spacing on that team.

KCP/green/kieff we’re the only players that you didn’t wanna let shoot threes outside of their stars, and it has been an issue all year, so his effeciency being as high as it was was impressive, and his volume wasn’t as lowered as you’d expect, more so his minutes went down a bit

That series against Miami was pretty special too

I’d still have it a conversation offensively, I don’t think it’s really one at all overall yet unless luka does something absurd, because bron was probably the non big defender in the playoffs that year

I agree he couldn’t take over as much as in some of years past, but I think some of that was deferring to AD, rightfully so since AD was having like top tier postseason at that time

[Colbinii]

How would you compare both the problems Luka Doncic and late-career Lebron James (around 2017-2020) present to opposing defenses and their impacts on that end?

early 30's lebron was kinda like current young luka but with better conditioning, more athletism and significatively better scoring skill for finishing in the paint

and contrary to what many think, i think lebron had a better jumpshot too

lebron was a fair amount more efficient because of those advantages

edit:and less turnovers than luka too, forgot that

edit: and better off ball value too

I am not sure he had "significantly" better scoring or that he was a better passer, and I am pretty sure Luka is better shooter at this stage.
What really limits Luka is his conditioning, he should learn how to play off ball more because he can't play this way for a whole series.

___
Sent from my Nokia 3210 using RealGM mobile app

How is Luka a better shooter? None of the data supports that notion.

[70sFan]

So you think they are in completely different leagues in terms of offensive impact? Fair enough. Then how would you describe the problems they present to opposing defenses and how they differ in terms of what they do on a possession-to-possession basis. Or when worded differently: how would you compare their styles of play offensively (both in terms of what they do more or less and how well they do it)?

Their styles aren't identical, because teams became much more into hunting mismatches and trying to expose the weakest links on offensive end. LeBron didn't do that to such degree, even in the late 2010s. Doesn't mean that he wasn't capable of that.

About LeBron advantages, there are plenty of them - James was a better inside finisher and slasher, which makes him more dangerous both on-ball and off-ball. He was also stronger in the post, though he doesn't have a huge edge here. James is also a better shooter (surprisingly) and I like his decision making more.

That said, I can entertain Luka over 2020 James, at least offensively. I don't think Lakers James was on his prime offensive level anymore.

Well, LeBron has been doing this regularly since his return to the Cavs, especially in the post season.

___
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Not to the same degree as Luka though, which isn't surprising - Luka does that more often than anyone in NBA history, maybe with the exception of Houston Harden.

[dygaction]

early 30's lebron was kinda like current young luka but with better conditioning, more athletism and significatively better scoring skill for finishing in the paint

and contrary to what many think, i think lebron had a better jumpshot too

lebron was a fair amount more efficient because of those advantages

edit:and less turnovers than luka too, forgot that

edit: and better off ball value too

I am not sure he had "significantly" better scoring or that he was a better passer, and I am pretty sure Luka is better shooter at this stage.
What really limits Luka is his conditioning, he should learn how to play off ball more because he can't play this way for a whole series.

___
Sent from my Nokia 3210 using RealGM mobile app

How is Luka a better shooter? None of the data supports that notion.

Unless you do not trust playoff number is a thing. In the three year span, Luka was better 3ft-10, 10-16, 16-3p, and they tied at 3p.

[70sFan]

People want LeBron and MJ comparisons with Luka, but I actually made a different, more fitting comparison thread (at least in my opinion). Luka started his career extremely well and I see some similarities with Elgin Baylor - do you think he is closer to James than Baylor right now?

[falcolombardi]

luka

I am not sure he had "significantly" better scoring or that he was a better passer, and I am pretty sure Luka is better shooter at this stage.
What really limits Luka is his conditioning, he should learn how to play off ball more because he can't play this way for a whole series.

___
Sent from my Nokia 3210 using RealGM mobile app

How is Luka a better shooter? None of the data supports that notion.

Unless you do not trust playoff number is a thing. In the three year span, Luka was better 3ft-10, 10-16, 16-3p, and they tied at 3p.

luka 3 year run so far is equivalent in total games to one lebron year so small sample concerns are valid

[falcolombardi]

People want LeBron and MJ comparisons with Luka, but I actually made a different, more fitting comparison thread (at least in my opinion). Luka started his career extremely well and I see some similarities with Elgin Baylor - do you think he is closer to James than Baylor right now?

i will be honest and say i am not knowledgeable enough to feel comfortable with evaluating baylor compared to modern players

[dygaction]

luka

How is Luka a better shooter? None of the data supports that notion.

Unless you do not trust playoff number is a thing. In the three year span, Luka was better 3ft-10, 10-16, 16-3p, and they tied at 3p.

luka 3 year run so far is equivalent in total games to one lebron year so small sample concerns are valid

but why do we need to compare? Luka 23 games all three catagories are in high 40s, LeBron's career of all three are in high 30s and during that three years also ~5% lower across board.

[Colbinii]

I am not sure he had "significantly" better scoring or that he was a better passer, and I am pretty sure Luka is better shooter at this stage.
What really limits Luka is his conditioning, he should learn how to play off ball more because he can't play this way for a whole series.

___
Sent from my Nokia 3210 using RealGM mobile app

How is Luka a better shooter? None of the data supports that notion.

Unless you do not trust playoff number is a thing. In the three year span, Luka was better 3ft-10, 10-16, 16-3p, and they tied at 3p.

Sample size matters though.

In 7 games against the #1defense [103.7 2018 Celtics] LeBron posted 33.6/9.0/8.4 on 52.4 FG%, 40.9 3P% and 61.0 TS%.

Luka posted a worse series in 2020 against the 5th best defense [107.6 Drtg] and 2020 [8th best defense, 111.2 Drtg].

Luka's Phoenix series is 32.6/9.9/7.0 on 47.6 FG%, 33.8 3P% and 58.3 TS% [3rd ranked defense at 107.3 Drtg].

Next.