Rank Bud against the other 29 coaches in the NBA

[thomchatt3rton]

The question that it comes down to for me: if Giannis weren't on the team or unavailable for some reason, does Budenholzer still have a job here? Yes, they beat the pretender Hawks last year with Giannis down. But Giannis has done a hell of a job making Bud look really good. I'm not convinced that he's truly in the top tier despite winning a championship..

I put Bud top five. And I think if we lost Giannis, and he had to re-tool, this team would win 50 games most years. He's that good a coach IMO.

Where all these guys get into trouble is player personnel moves. Bud's had his hand in things, and we've seen the good, like Pat C., who he really wanted in. And we've also seen the bad, where he's bringing George Hill back and playing him a lot.

Same problem on the personnel front with Kidd here, but even worse. Kidd made this team believe, and shaped Giannis into being a man. Huge help. But then he's telling Lasry and Hammond that he needs Greivis Vasquez at all costs, since we need an "assist getting" PG. Or we need to draft his agent's client Rashad Vaughn, over Bobby Portis.

The thing that really scares me about Bud is when he got full control of Atlanta personnel and swapped out Horford for Dwight. Unconscionable.

I remember thinking at the time it seemed like Horford wanted a change of scenery but I don’t remember what I based that on.

Looked it up: ATL supposedly offered Al 5/136, and he ended up taking BOS’s 4/113. Idk if ATL could’ve offered a bigger 4-year deal.

But they didn’t give all that money to Dwight (3/70) tho, so it looks like they preferred Dwight + $66M over Al?

Or possible they knew Al was leaving and Dwight was a consolation prize.

For whatever that’s worth.

But yeah, preferring Dwight over Al would be nuts, IF that’s what happened. Idk.


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[FlagsFlyForever]

Glad you specified as a coach. I was about to rank Bud in terms of who would win in a fight and it would have been very controversial.

Specifying as a coach is important because Bud was terrible in Atlanta after he gained control of roster moves.


Ranking coaches is impossible. There's Spoelstra and then there's everyone else depending on how good their rosters are. Would Luke Walton be considered an elite coach if Steve Kerr never came back from his back surgery? Walton went 39-4 while Kerr was away from the team in 2016. Even Mike Brown, who was fired three times, went 11-0 as Warriors interim coach during the 2017 playoffs.

I wouldn't fire Bud. It's risky to fire a head coach and I can't name a coach who could do better.

As a thought experiment, what do you think could happen negatively if we did fire Bud?

To me, the big risk would be whether Giannis liked his replacement, and whether he thought it was fair to fire him. Could alienate him.

But from a coaching standpoint, I don't see what he does at this point. Giannis just running in transition and others spamming 3s is good for 50 autopilot wins in the regular season. In the playoffs, his approach is to let Giannis unlock the defense, run drop coverage, and hope for the best. Couldn't a novice coach do this too?

I bet another coach could run a different system with similar results. But 95% of the consideration should be what Giannis thinks of the coach. If Giannis likes Bud, then you keep Bud.

[BigO]

geez so whose your guy? youve complained enough about him i can see youre serious. obviously you have a name in mind....wanna share who it is?

Mr. Doesntleavefortypercentthreepointshootersopen.

I obviously am not aware of the universe of up and coming coaches out there, but criteria has to include personability, ability to hire a strong development staff, creativity, and flexibility. Maybe someone from Spoelstra's staff. Maybe someone from Europe (Sarunas Jasikevicius was Pachinko's suggestion, which sounds intriguing).

let me get this straight. youre advocating taking a flyer on a rookie coach?

yeah no way anybody needs to listen to any more of that kind of talk.

and you need to watch more nba basketball. like maybe games besides the bucks. youll be surprised how often guys who shoot 3 balls can get open when youre also trying to prevent getting your ass dunked on

Ridiculous take and more generalities that have no basis in fact.

Of course there are rookie coaches who could do a better job than Bud. The problem is picking the right one. Memphis's coach is heads and shoulder above Bud and Memphis did a great job in finding him. I've written about him before (a Bud disciple who has none of Bud's rigidness and predictability).

Nick Nurse was a great rookie coach. Udoka is a rookie coach. So there's three off the top of my head.

Finding the right coach is not easy and takes skill and insight. But anyone who watched Bud play checkers using the same moves over and over, while his counterparts play chess, should understand that there is a problem.

And yes, when you consistently have a problem guarding threes, when the game over the last 4 years has continuously emphasized the importance of the three point line, there is a problem. Bud seems like a great guy who has no ability to adapt to what is right in front of his eyes.

If Bud came out and said he needs to grow more and he needs to adapt to the changing NBA game, both offensively and defensively, I'd be on board.

[Fotis St]

There is a thing called .... addition by subtraction.
I mean we get better without him.
New coach, new scheme, new strategy , new offense , never ever ever watch the drop scheme for 48 minutes, new staff, new draft picks, new approach on roster fillers, adding athleticism instead of washed vets... We need a change so even a bit worse coach on paper could look really well with having a generational talent like Giannis in his roster.

Bottom line ... BUD is washed just like George Hill. Time to move on

[blazza18]

If Bud came out and said he needs to grow more and he needs to adapt to the changing NBA game, both offensively and defensively, I'd be on board.

I think everyone can at least agree with this. Adapt or die.

[BigO]

I encourage everyone to read The Athletic article on why the Bucks lost. I won't go thru the whole article, but here are just two paragraphs to give you an idea:

" The Bucks were outscored by 19.2 points per 100 possessions with Brook Lopez on the court in the Boston series, surrendering a jaw-dropping 47.1 3-point attempts per 100 possessions in his minutes.

Boston, meanwhile, ruthlessly exposed the Bucks’ limitations against space ball, starting with Al Horford’s 30-point outburst in Game 4. Horford was so effective standing on the perimeter and waiting for Lopez to wander off that the Bucks instead went to having Lopez guard Grant Williams for Game 7. He and Derrick White were granted as many open 3s as they could handle, the Celtics took an absurd 55 and the Bucks were toast."

Besides the obvious coaching flaws, the article also examines the flaws in the Bucks roster, given that so many teams are spreading teams like Milwaukee and Phoenix out to guard the three point line and some teams aren't equipped to handle it.

Bud has to go (I know he won't), but there are roster issues also that need to be addressed. The status quo isn't acceptable.

[msiris]

Giannis makes Bud look good. Bud is a good players coach but as far a pure coach he is lacking.

[BroncoBuck]

Giannis makes Bud look good. Bud is a good players coach but as far a pure coach he is lacking.

Bud won 60 games with the Hawks…Kyle Korver made the all star team

[th87]

I encourage everyone to read The Athletic article on why the Bucks lost. I won't go thru the whole article, but here are just two paragraphs to give you an idea:

" The Bucks were outscored by 19.2 points per 100 possessions with Brook Lopez on the court in the Boston series, surrendering a jaw-dropping 47.1 3-point attempts per 100 possessions in his minutes.

Boston, meanwhile, ruthlessly exposed the Bucks’ limitations against space ball, starting with Al Horford’s 30-point outburst in Game 4. Horford was so effective standing on the perimeter and waiting for Lopez to wander off that the Bucks instead went to having Lopez guard Grant Williams for Game 7. He and Derrick White were granted as many open 3s as they could handle, the Celtics took an absurd 55 and the Bucks were toast."

Besides the obvious coaching flaws, the article also examines the flaws in the Bucks roster, given that so many teams are spreading teams like Milwaukee and Phoenix out to guard the three point line and some teams aren't equipped to handle it.

Bud has to go (I know he won't), but there are roster issues also that need to be addressed. The status quo isn't acceptable.

Really rough watching this in slow mo, knowing what's going to happen, and watching nothing at all being tried to counter.

But I'm sure he had some super secret reason not accessible to us novices.

[Prez]

I have Bud in the 11-13 range or so.

[th87]

Giannis makes Bud look good. Bud is a good players coach but as far a pure coach he is lacking.

Bud won 60 games with the Hawks…Kyle Korver made the all star team

By implementing a gimmick offense. Then he won 48, 43, and 24.

[BroncoBuck]

Top 6 and none of the guys above him are even remotely available.

[msiris]

Giannis makes Bud look good. Bud is a good players coach but as far a pure coach he is lacking.

Bud won 60 games with the Hawks…Kyle Korver made the all star team

Hawks did nothing in the playoff. Giannis was the biggest reason we won last year.

[BroncoBuck]

Giannis makes Bud look good. Bud is a good players coach but as far a pure coach he is lacking.

Bud won 60 games with the Hawks…Kyle Korver made the all star team

By implementing a gimmick offense. Then he won 48, 43, and 24.

You realize those last two seasons were without that roster? Horford left, they traded Korver, and they traded Teague. Then the final season Millsap left. Check out the roster of that 24 win team.

[BroncoBuck]

Giannis makes Bud look good. Bud is a good players coach but as far a pure coach he is lacking.

Bud won 60 games with the Hawks…Kyle Korver made the all star team

Hawks did nothing in the playoff. Giannis was the biggest reason we won last year.

The Hawks made the conference Finals and lost to……PRIME LEBRON JAMES.

If we’re going to slander coaches for losing playoff games to prime LeBron James there’s a possibility every coach in the league stinks. Hell, Spolstra lost WITH prime LeBron James.

[th87]

Bud won 60 games with the Hawks…Kyle Korver made the all star team

By implementing a gimmick offense. Then he won 48, 43, and 24.

You realize those last two seasons were without that roster? Horford left, they traded Korver, and they traded Teague. Then the final season Millsap left. Check out the roster of that 24 win team.

But your implication was that he turned an inferior roster into a 60 win team through his coaching acumen. So he should've been able to do the same with a similarly inferior roster the following year, no?

Also the roster changes are from his POBO work. The bad records are on him too.

[th87]

Bud won 60 games with the Hawks…Kyle Korver made the all star team

Hawks did nothing in the playoff. Giannis was the biggest reason we won last year.

The Hawks made the conference Finals and lost to……PRIME LEBRON JAMES.

If we’re going to slander coaches for losing playoff games to prime LeBron James there’s a possibility every coach in the league stinks. Hell, Spolstra lost WITH prime LeBron James.

Swept by Lebron. Twice.

[Bucksmaniac]

Giannis makes Bud look good. Bud is a good players coach but as far a pure coach he is lacking.

Bud won 60 games with the Hawks…Kyle Korver made the all star team

It’s pretty clear Bud has gotten lazy in his coaching in recent years, probably thinking that Giannis and our other good iso players will consistently save the day. Doesn’t happen often enough and our offense was not very good or fun to watch this year, especially in the Playoffs.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

what changed this year was THE ROSTER not the coach. thats why we lost and thats why we lost to a barrage of 3's when last year other prolific shooting teams got their ass beat.

this stupid **** has nothing to do with coach bud

Except most disliked Bud last year and believed we won in spite of him. In fact, many wanted him fired after winning the title but knew that was impossible. How do you fire a coach after the team wins their first title in 50 years? I don't know, but they should have.

But yes, the roster changes hurt too.

i would agree most frustrated fans demanding results now wanted bud gone. then like many opinions ive had that changed like a slap to the face based on last years results.....those fans should have admitted how **** and shallow their opinions were. and for the record the same reasoning they used for bud was also used against middleton and jrue, and should have been used against giannis....but agiain, and obviously.... the championship should have changed all that

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

its a bad break for bud that middleton was out this year. if somehow we dont win 10 in a row to finish out giannis prime it will always be middletons fault. unfortunately for bud khris was out this year for the elimination series so bud will have to absorb the frustration