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The Case for Jabari Smith.... at SG/SF/PF!

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The Case for Jabari Smith.... at SG/SF/PF! 

Post#1 » by Skin » Wed May 18, 2022 4:01 am

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Wanted to wait for our pick to be known before doing this this year. Not gonna lie, I'm so butt horny for an elite SG and at first I could only think that Jabari would push Franz to SG and that just didn't sit well AT ALL. Which lead me to me my latest and greatest hot take! Jabari Smith as our Starting SG! Sure he can play other positions too, but hell, let's create mismatches that the rest of the league can't deal with and let's have some fun!

Here he says he'd play the 2 in a big line up or a 5 in a small one!


From NBA.com
Strengths: 3-Point Shooting, Deep Range, Mid-Range Pull-Up, Tough Shot-Maker, Perimeter Defense, Deflecting Passes, Rebounding

Weaknesses: Attacking Basket, Drawing Fouls, Shot Settling, Rim Protection, Playmaking

FIT WITH THE MAGIC

On Offense...The Magic already have an attacking lead guard in Fultz, who can collapse the lane and create open looks for teammates, so having spot up shooters around him is the ideal set up. In contrast, Fultz paired with Ivey are two ball dominant, lane attacking guards who don't compliment each other as well (unless Ivey proves to be a reliable 3pt shooter, which is a criticism). Jalen Suggs 3 point range was the biggest disappointment for the Magic in 2021-22. It's gonna be a while until that gets fixed. Jabari can step in from Day 1 and provide a huge boost filling the role off the ball. Critics may say Jabari doesn't have the handle to create his own shot. True, but Jabari doesn't need to dribble to create his own shot. His height and length already give him the advantage of getting his own shot off.

With Franz establishing himself as our starting SF, Jabari does not have a clear path to starters minutes at the 3. He does have the versatility to share minutes there, which is again, perfect for us. But as a starter, Franz is a more complete player.

At PF, I just don't like the idea of Jabari, even if Isaac is not in the picture. If the plan is to replace Isaac, then Chet is the obvious choice. However, I don't think from anything that we've heard from the Magic that Isaac is NOT a part of their plans. In fact, I'm sure he is a BIG part of their plans.


On Defense... As much as I can respect Jabari Smith's shooting, his effort with his perimeter defense is what I love most about him. He is stiffling, tenacious and CONFIDENT he can stop his guy. He's a damn bully at times, and I LOVE IT!!! :nod:

Read on Twitter


Nothing irritates shooters on the perimeter more than defenders with length and quick feet. Watching the playoffs, I think Jabari would give guys FITS! Luka would be pissed with that match up, Booker, Klay, Bane, Herro would find it hard to shoot over him, Jaylen and Harden could try to dribble past him but would have to watch their backs for block from behind.

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ORLANDO LONG BOIS

We KNOW Weltman and Hammond have an insatiable lust for length. A SG with a wingspan of 7'1 would absolutely thrill them. A look at their length and versatility shows their priority.

Markelle Fultz - 6'10
Jabari Smith - 7'1
Chuma Okeke - 7'0
Franz Wagner - 7'0
Mo Wagner - 7'0
Jonathan Isaac - 7'1
Wendell Carter Jr - 7'5
Robin Lopez 7'6
Bol Bol - 7'8
Mo Bamba - 7'10



CHET VS JABARI

1. Chet on the perimeter takes him away from the post where his defense is most effective.
2. Jabari on the perimeter infuriates opponents and mitigates his post defense criticisms.
2. Chet pushes Isaac out of the picture.
3. Jabari at SG creates mismatch advantages for the Magic that most teams will find difficulty combating.
4. Chet's body and game is an injury prone mixture. He needs to add a lot of good weight and muscle to withstand 82 games a year.
5. Jabari's frame has room to bulk up and not have it negatively affect his game. High upside.
6. Jabari IS a shooter. His 80 made 3PT made is double that of Chet's 40 3PT made.
7. Jabari, 80% FT shooter vs Chet, 70% FT shooter.
8. Chet the superior blocker, Jabari the superior stealer.
9. Chet was a role player for Gonzaga.
10. Jabari was the alpha for Auburn.
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Re: The Case for Jabari Smith.... at SG! 

Post#2 » by thelead » Wed May 18, 2022 4:05 am

At SG???? Skin... are you feeling okay? :lol:
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Re: The Case for Jabari Smith.... at SG! 

Post#3 » by Skin » Wed May 18, 2022 4:08 am

thelead wrote:At SG???? Skin... are you feeling okay? :lol:

:pray: :pray: :pray:

Where would you play him?
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Re: The Case for Jabari Smith.... at SG! 

Post#4 » by thelead » Wed May 18, 2022 4:12 am

Skin wrote:
thelead wrote:At SG???? Skin... are you feeling okay? :lol:

:pray: :pray: :pray:

Where would you play him?

He's my preferred #1 pick at the moment but the guy can barely dribble right now. He can't play the 2 and will never be able to unless there is a remarkable improvement to his handle. Could you imagine Fultz/Suggs getting pressured, passing it to Jabari and having Jabari be hounded by Smart, Holiday, Caruso, etc trying to dribble up the court? That would be a disaster IMO.
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Re: The Case for Jabari Smith.... at SG! 

Post#5 » by Skin » Wed May 18, 2022 4:39 am

thelead wrote:
Skin wrote:
thelead wrote:At SG???? Skin... are you feeling okay? :lol:

:pray: :pray: :pray:

Where would you play him?

He's my preferred #1 pick at the moment but the guy can barely dribble right now. He can't play the 2 and will never be able to unless there is a remarkable improvement to his handle. Could you imagine Fultz/Suggs getting pressured, passing it to Jabari and having Jabari be hounded by Smart, Holiday, Caruso, etc trying to dribble up the court? That would be a disaster IMO.

Ball can be passed to Franz or Isaac instead. Besides, Jabari would only need to hold the ball high and find a passing outlet. Can you imagine Smart, Holiday, Caruso trying to jump and knock the ball out of Jabari's reach? That would be hilarious.
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Re: The Case for Jabari Smith.... at SG! 

Post#6 » by shadrock » Wed May 18, 2022 4:43 am

Not sure why we wouldnt just go:
C : JI
PF: Jabari
SF: Wagner
SG: Suggs
PG: Fultz

That is a lineup i could get very excited about.

Holy moly imagine having three interchangable guys in JI Jabari and Franz who can all shoot and defend 1-5. An absolute dream.

Just hope they dont fall for the Chet hype. Hes going to be a huge bust.
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Re: The Case for Jabari Smith.... at SG! 

Post#7 » by fendilim » Wed May 18, 2022 5:38 am

I’d love to see Isaac, Jabari and Franz frontcourt. Then WCJ if we need to the play big against big.

I don’t think we will pick Chet because of Isaac. We’ve seen Isaac’s potential to be an all-defensive guy. I don’t think he is easily replaceable. I think management would only consider moving on from him if he shows he is not able to stay on the court after this prolonged rehab years.
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Re: The Case for Jabari Smith.... at SG! 

Post#8 » by fendilim » Wed May 18, 2022 5:40 am

Skin wrote:
thelead wrote:
Skin wrote: :pray: :pray: :pray:

Where would you play him?

He's my preferred #1 pick at the moment but the guy can barely dribble right now. He can't play the 2 and will never be able to unless there is a remarkable improvement to his handle. Could you imagine Fultz/Suggs getting pressured, passing it to Jabari and having Jabari be hounded by Smart, Holiday, Caruso, etc trying to dribble up the court? That would be a disaster IMO.

Ball can be passed to Franz or Isaac instead. Besides, Jabari would only need to hold the ball high and find a passing outlet. Can you imagine Smart, Holiday, Caruso trying to jump and knock the ball out of Jabari's reach? That would be hilarious.

Well, to be fair, I do think Jabari will struggle against the smaller guys if he isn’t able to improve on his dribbling.
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Re: The Case for Jabari Smith.... at SG! 

Post#9 » by zaymon » Wed May 18, 2022 5:51 am

I dont think we will pick a guy with thay limited handle and no post game number one. He is not even that explosive to dream of a superstar ceiling. Having multiple creators is necessary in the nba.
Yes i agree sg is propably his prefered position but not becouse he has any advantage over other 2s in the league but becouse its hard to play him anywhere else becouse of handle and lack of rim protection
My money is on Banchero going number 1 !
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Re: The Case for Jabari Smith.... at SG! 

Post#10 » by RookieStar » Wed May 18, 2022 5:53 am

fendilim wrote:I’d love to see Isaac, Jabari and Franz frontcourt. Then WCJ if we need to the play big against big.

I don’t think we will pick Chet because of Isaac. We’ve seen Isaac’s potential to be an all-defensive guy. I don’t think he is easily replaceable. I think management would only consider moving on from him if he shows he is not able to stay on the court after this prolonged rehab years.


In the POs when teams go smallball like Draymond as C, DfS as C, we def can work woth thatineup
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Re: The Case for Jabari Smith.... at SG! 

Post#11 » by pepe1991 » Wed May 18, 2022 5:59 am

fendilim wrote:I’d love to see Isaac, Jabari and Franz frontcourt. Then WCJ if we need to the play big against big.

I don’t think we will pick Chet because of Isaac. We’ve seen Isaac’s potential to be an all-defensive guy. I don’t think he is easily replaceable. I think management would only consider moving on from him if he shows he is not able to stay on the court after this prolonged rehab years.


think management would only consider moving on from him if he shows he is not able to stay on the court after this prolonged rehab years

Not playing basketball 4 out of 5 years isnt' prolonged period enough? :D
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Re: The Case for Jabari Smith.... at SG! 

Post#12 » by SOUL » Wed May 18, 2022 6:36 am

Curious as to why Franz at SG wouldn't sit well with you. Good second ball-handler, drives well, finds open men, has craftiness and high advantage over most guys there. Only thing is speed but he can back down players well too. Plus he's not the greatest rebounder so I think he'd work well t here.
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Re: The Case for Jabari Smith.... at SG! 

Post#13 » by Skin » Wed May 18, 2022 6:38 am

zaymon wrote:I dont think we will pick a guy with thay limited handle and no post game number one. He is not even that explosive to dream of a superstar ceiling. Having multiple creators is necessary in the nba.
Yes i agree sg is propably his prefered position but not becouse he has any advantage over other 2s in the league but becouse its hard to play him anywhere else becouse of handle and lack of rim protection

I wonder if that's what I'm doing... Trying to convince myself of a way to like him. :lol:

I wanted Ivey, Mathurin, Sharpe... I even love Agbaji. We finally win in a year trapped into taking flawed players. In recent years past I badly wanted Anthony Edwards and Jalen Green. This year is a disappointment for sure.
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Re: The Case for Jabari Smith.... at SG! 

Post#14 » by drsd » Wed May 18, 2022 6:48 am

On offense, a team can essentually play any five players. The question is whether playing a combo-guard, a combo-foward, two PFs, and a combo big can work on defense.

I am skeptic that these five could work defensively: Fultz/Smith/F-Wagner/Isaac/Carter.
Indeed, if the Magic played those five, it is probably F-Wagner that guards the opponent SG.

What is interesting about this conversation is that it goes totally against what the modern NBA is doing. Which could be a good thing. Being different is what creates mismatches, after all.
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Re: The Case for Jabari Smith.... at SG! 

Post#15 » by cedric76 » Wed May 18, 2022 6:49 am

Skin wrote:
thelead wrote:At SG???? Skin... are you feeling okay? :lol:

:pray: :pray: :pray:

Where would you play him?


I think franz is the one that s gonna slide to the 2

And jabari play some 3

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Re: The Case for Jabari Smith.... at SG! 

Post#16 » by cedric76 » Wed May 18, 2022 6:59 am

SOUL wrote:Curious as to why Franz at SG wouldn't sit well with you. Good second ball-handler, drives well, finds open men, has craftiness and high advantage over most guys there. Only thing is speed but he can back down players well too. Plus he's not the greatest rebounder so I think he'd work well t here.


And franz has been defending opposing SG very well this season, you are what you can defend and franz can defend sg and sf

And i think jabari can defend sf and pf
Suggs, Tyus, Jase
Bane, AB, Jett
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P5, JI, Panda
Wcj, Goga, Moe
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Re: The Case for Jabari Smith.... at SG! 

Post#17 » by drsd » Wed May 18, 2022 7:31 am

cedric76 wrote:And franz has been defending opposing SG very well this season, you are what you can defend and franz can defend sg and sf

And i think jabari can defend sf and pf



Fultz/Anthony/Cannady
F-Wagner/Suggs/Hampton
Smith/Ross/Mr. SRP
Isaac/Okeke/Bol
Carter/Bamba/M-Wagner

If the Magic draft Smith, and re-up Bamba and M-Wagner, this could be Orando's depth chart on opening night.

..
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Re: The Case for Jabari Smith.... at SG! 

Post#18 » by pepe1991 » Wed May 18, 2022 7:43 am

SOUL wrote:Curious as to why Franz at SG wouldn't sit well with you. Good second ball-handler, drives well, finds open men, has craftiness and high advantage over most guys there. Only thing is speed but he can back down players well too. Plus he's not the greatest rebounder so I think he'd work well t here.


You probably don't want over span of a season waste your 6'11 player and run him to a ground by having him chase bunch of 6'3 players through multiple screens every possession where he has clear adventage of size & weight guarding SFs.
Over years Franz will eventually become PF anyway due his size.

I would not worry too much about rebounds for Franz for his position ,he plays with notiorus stat padding guard Cole and two bigs who also have tenency to chase uncontested rebounds. But Cole is the worst in this department, 83% of his rebounds were "safe " and it was just him taking rebound that would be Magic ball anyway.

In general, imo, you generate most of good looks for Franz at SF & PF. As he is very good cutter, very good spot up shooter but also guy who can pop over slower defenders.
In theory, on offense, he can do those things at SG, but again, on defense, it's just waste of energy. All 4 teams remaining in playoffs are fallnig into "small" category in terms of size, some of them are ultra small ( Heat has 0 players taller than 6'9 ) , and some of them play 4 guards and PF.
Does that mean Magic need to "zag"? Well, last time they zagged we ended up with Green, Ibaka, Biyombo, Gordon. So i would prefer to keep zigging with players remaining at logical positions.

Smith at SG makes as much sense as Biyombo at PG. Just because somebody can shoot, that doesn't make him SG. His playing style is more of "smart Bamba with shades of Aldrige, without post game" than 6'10 shooting guard. he is not going to curl off screens and shoot. He is 6'10, there is no reason why he should be running through multiple screens. Much like Franz at SG on D, it's just waste of energy.
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Re: The Case for Jabari Smith.... at SG! 

Post#19 » by cedric76 » Wed May 18, 2022 9:19 am

pepe1991 wrote:
SOUL wrote:Curious as to why Franz at SG wouldn't sit well with you. Good second ball-handler, drives well, finds open men, has craftiness and high advantage over most guys there. Only thing is speed but he can back down players well too. Plus he's not the greatest rebounder so I think he'd work well t here.


You probably don't want over span of a season waste your 6'11 player and run him to a ground by having him chase bunch of 6'3 players through multiple screens every possession where he has clear adventage of size & weight guarding SFs.
Over years Franz will eventually become PF anyway due his size.

I would not worry too much about rebounds for Franz for his position ,he plays with notiorus stat padding guard Cole and two bigs who also have tenency to chase uncontested rebounds. But Cole is the worst in this department, 83% of his rebounds were "safe " and it was just him taking rebound that would be Magic ball anyway.

In general, imo, you generate most of good looks for Franz at SF & PF. As he is very good cutter, very good spot up shooter but also guy who can pop over slower defenders.
In theory, on offense, he can do those things at SG, but again, on defense, it's just waste of energy. All 4 teams remaining in playoffs are fallnig into "small" category in terms of size, some of them are ultra small ( Heat has 0 players taller than 6'9 ) , and some of them play 4 guards and PF.
Does that mean Magic need to "zag"? Well, last time they zagged we ended up with Green, Ibaka, Biyombo, Gordon. So i would prefer to keep zigging with players remaining at logical positions.

Smith at SG makes as much sense as Biyombo at PG. Just because somebody can shoot, that doesn't make him SG. His playing style is more of "smart Bamba with shades of Aldrige, without post game" than 6'10 shooting guard. he is not going to curl off screens and shoot. He is 6'10, there is no reason why he should be running through multiple screens. Much like Franz at SG on D, it's just waste of energy.


We are deep enough to make sure our players don't get burnt out, and you are ignoring the fact that the opposing teams would have to adjust to franz. They would get killed and in foul trouble very quickly.

Imagine this lineup

Fultz/Suggs
Franz
Jabari
JI
WCJ

As our death lineup, we obviously won't play this lineup for 48 min, Fultz would deliver dimes after dimes.

Opposing teams would not be able to hide their small non-defenders, they would get killed each time they switch

Profitable matchups after profitable matchups


our team is so versatile, so many multi-positional players, and adding Jabari would allow us to play many different lineups

Franz playing 2-4
Jabari playing 3-4
JI and WCJ playing 4-5
Suggs and cole playing 1-2

go magic
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Re: The Case for Jabari Smith.... at SG! 

Post#20 » by pepe1991 » Wed May 18, 2022 10:29 am

Franz generates 0,2 ppg from postups, his size adventage over SGs isn't big factor, especially knowing he shoots 43% from postups.
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