Around the NBA - the sharp end of the playoffs - Randle snubbed for All NBA

[Reign23]

If you find yourself agreeing with the majority of Knicks fans, then you know you're probably wrong.

See KP, see Frank, see Randle ("MVP! MVP!), see Thibs ("Coach of the year! One of the best in the NBA! Culture!"), see Phil, see Leon, see 50-burger, see RJ, see booing Melo. Etcetera, etcetera.

Knicks fans are the most delusional fanbase in all of sports.

Grimes played. RJ played. IQ played. Mitch played. Obi yes was stuck behind Randle - Thibs should play him at the 5 more. Cam isn't good and is stuck behind a logjam on the wings that the FO should have addressed. Are we going to beach about freaking McBride? Seriously?

ok, then I have one last question for you, since their minutes were almost close for 30 days or so. if grimes comes into camp in good shape and obv not a rookie anymore… who is playing the least minutes next season out of burks, fournier and grimes?

Then I think there's no excuse to play Grimes fewer minutes than Fournier. As far as who will play the most minutes, I can't predict that. But I hope Grimes plays more than Fournier, or at least closer to 30 minutes per game. I think the latter matters more, especially if he plays well like he did in 2022.

Burks played in a different role so it's hardly comparable. From secondary shot creator of a bench unit (a role in which he excelled by the way) to emergency starting point guard, a role a player like him should never be expected to take on (I blame the FO for this). Grimes is not expected to assume either of those roles.

fair point regarding burks.
soooo can we then agree that fournier will play more than grimes and burks will play more than IQ? alright, thx !

[G_K_F]

I am getting to the point that i believe you are either thibs or related to him

I never wanted him hired. I never thought he was the COY. I never considered him more than an average/decent coach when everybody was crowning him.

I just don't think he's this anti-youth devil that some people are painting him as. That's a simplistic caricature that helps find a convenient scapegoat. Because it's harder to accept that our youth might not be that good vs a coach who's nearing retirement. Most of our young players play anyway.

I can't discuss this with you anymore, homie. I don't get why you are still fighting this fight despite the numbers and every poster disagreeing with you.

I sincerely forgot that Chanel has the "defend Alec Burks at all costs" schtick going. My bad for even getting into this discussion.

[Jalen Bluntson]

ok, then I have one last question for you, since their minutes were almost close for 30 days or so. if grimes comes into camp in good shape and obv not a rookie anymore… who is playing the least minutes next season out of burks, fournier and grimes?

Then I think there's no excuse to play Grimes fewer minutes than Fournier. As far as who will play the most minutes, I can't predict that. But I hope Grimes plays more than Fournier, or at least closer to 30 minutes per game. I think the latter matters more, especially if he plays well like he did in 2022.

Burks played in a different role so it's hardly comparable. From secondary shot creator of a bench unit (a role in which he excelled by the way) to emergency starting point guard, a role a player like him should never be expected to take on (I blame the FO for this). Grimes is not expected to assume either of those roles.

fair point regarding burks.
soooo can we then agree that fournier will play more than grimes and burks will play more than IQ? alright, thx !

[Chanel Bomber]

ok, then I have one last question for you, since their minutes were almost close for 30 days or so. if grimes comes into camp in good shape and obv not a rookie anymore… who is playing the least minutes next season out of burks, fournier and grimes?

Then I think there's no excuse to play Grimes fewer minutes than Fournier. As far as who will play the most minutes, I can't predict that. But I hope Grimes plays more than Fournier, or at least closer to 30 minutes per game. I think the latter matters more, especially if he plays well like he did in 2022.

Burks played in a different role so it's hardly comparable. From secondary shot creator of a bench unit (a role in which he excelled by the way) to emergency starting point guard, a role a player like him should never be expected to take on (I blame the FO for this). Grimes is not expected to assume either of those roles.

fair point regarding burks.
soooo can we then agree that fournier will play more than grimes and burks will play more than IQ? alright, thx !

I'm not interested in making a prediction about these minutes, especially since there might be some movement this summer. I'm not going to preemptively judge Thibs on next year when it hasn't happened yet.

If Grimes outplays Fournier next year, then yes, I want him to play more than Fournier. This remains to be seen, but I expect Grimes to keep playing well, and to play. About Burks, I want him to come off the bench like he had been until Thibs kicked Kemba out of the rotation. He had been great for the Knicks as a shot creator and spot-up shooter coming off the bench, notably with IQ. If IQ plays better than Burks, then he should play more minutes.

I don't think these guys are the problem (besides the size of Fournier's contract). They're all decent role players.

[Chanel Bomber]

I never wanted him hired. I never thought he was the COY. I never considered him more than an average/decent coach when everybody was crowning him.

I just don't think he's this anti-youth devil that some people are painting him as. That's a simplistic caricature that helps find a convenient scapegoat. Because it's harder to accept that our youth might not be that good vs a coach who's nearing retirement. Most of our young players play anyway.

I can't discuss this with you anymore, homie. I don't get why you are still fighting this fight despite the numbers and every poster disagreeing with you.

I sincerely forgot that Chanel has the "defend Alec Burks at all costs" schtick going. My bad for even getting into this discussion.

He's a good shot creator coming off the bench. He was excellent in his role before being utilized as an emergency starting point guard to fill the void at the position. He hasn't been good in that role, but could anybody reasonably expect him to do well? At least he shot well from 3, and spaced the floor. Other players i.e. our stars didn't do anything well for us.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Is that a morning beer?

Read on Twitter

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[Jalen Bluntson]

Then I think there's no excuse to play Grimes fewer minutes than Fournier. As far as who will play the most minutes, I can't predict that. But I hope Grimes plays more than Fournier, or at least closer to 30 minutes per game. I think the latter matters more, especially if he plays well like he did in 2022.

Burks played in a different role so it's hardly comparable. From secondary shot creator of a bench unit (a role in which he excelled by the way) to emergency starting point guard, a role a player like him should never be expected to take on (I blame the FO for this). Grimes is not expected to assume either of those roles.

fair point regarding burks.
soooo can we then agree that fournier will play more than grimes and burks will play more than IQ? alright, thx !

I'm not interested in making a prediction about these minutes, especially since there might be some movement this summer. I'm not going to preemptively judge Thibs on next year when it hasn't happened yet.

If Grimes outplays Fournier next year, then yes, I want him to play more than Fournier. This remains to be seen, but I expect Grimes to keep playing well, and to play. About Burks, I want him to come off the bench like he had been until Thibs kicked Kemba out of the rotation. He had been great for the Knicks as a shot creator and spot-up shooter coming off the bench, notably with IQ. If IQ plays better than Burks, then he should play more minutes.

I don't think these guys are the problem (besides the size of Fournier's contract). They're all decent role players.

Thibs minutes distribution and rotations are a problem. So is the roster. There is no need for Burks or Evan to even be on this roster BUT...in the right roles they are decent players.

The FO **** the bed last summer and the HC **** the bed during the season. Perhaps they aren't on the same page. Perhaps they both suck at their jobs. There is literally no excuse to trade a 1st for a player and then not play him though. There is no excuse to not at least TRY to see what Deuce could do as a PG...or to commit to IQ over Burks. The push for the play in was a fuggin joke. Not moving players at the deadline was another joke. Thinking they should extend Randle and run it back with the other vets and bring in Kemba/Evan was just the worst possible run of decisions they could have made. The proof is in the pudding.

Are we excited for the summer yet? I'm excited that we didn't fall back in the draft! I can't wait to trade down with that pick and get some extra 2rd picks! I can't wait to see what they do in FA with no cap space and the Mitch decision looming!! I can't wait to see the roster come pre season!! With Randle/Burks/Evan/Noel/Rose/Taj all returning!! Roll treadmill!!!

[iLLmatic860]

Is that a morning beer?

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With his morning hookah

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[evevale]

ok, then I have one last question for you, since their minutes were almost close for 30 days or so. if grimes comes into camp in good shape and obv not a rookie anymore… who is playing the least minutes next season out of burks, fournier and grimes?

Then I think there's no excuse to play Grimes fewer minutes than Fournier. As far as who will play the most minutes, I can't predict that. But I hope Grimes plays more than Fournier, or at least closer to 30 minutes per game. I think the latter matters more, especially if he plays well like he did in 2022.

Burks played in a different role so it's hardly comparable. From secondary shot creator of a bench unit (a role in which he excelled by the way) to emergency starting point guard, a role a player like him should never be expected to take on (I blame the FO for this). Grimes is not expected to assume either of those roles.

fair point regarding burks.
soooo can we then agree that fournier will play more than grimes and burks will play more than IQ? alright, thx !

so are you admitting that you are defeated then? i guess you're just trolling cause nowhere in his post does he even insinuate that

let's also not gloss over the fact iq was **** horrendous for nearly 75% of the season and peaked when nothing mattered anymore. i don't know why people are complaining about him not getting more minutes and if i really wanted to be annoying i'm sure i could go back and see every single person talking **** about him (except maybe knixtape or nykmentality cause he's banned)

and it's not like chanel is tom putting burks out there - kemba was trash, derrick was hurt and iq was awful ... what's he gonna do? point taj? at some point you have to realize that the team was bad, it was constructed poorly and we lack talent. that's why we suck. not because chan types huge paragraphs about burks or whatever other player people hate

[Chanel Bomber]

Thibs minutes distribution and rotations are a problem. So is the roster. There is no need for Burks or Evan to even be on this roster BUT...in the right roles they are decent players.

I agree with that.

I blame primarily the FO for these two offseason signings, which were completely unnecessary. I already expressed multiple times that I wish we had resigned Bullock over Burks (because of the skills overlap with IQ), and that signing Fournier was a treadmill move.

They are both good bench players on a contender. Burks could be the 4th or 5th best starter in a few situations, since he's a decent 3-point shooter with some shot creation skills and he's at least passable on defense. Not a great player by any means.

There is no excuse to not at least TRY to see what Deuce could do as a PG...or to commit to IQ over Burks.

There is an excuse not to play McBride: he can't shoot at the NBA level. Not now. Apparently RJ and Randle need spacing around them to succeed, since it cannot be expected of them to provide some semblance of shooting themselves, so playing McBride affects them negatively. Hopefully McBride comes back better next year. His percentages were a horror show this past year.

I hope to see IQ start next year. But #1 when Thibs promoted Burks to a starter position, Burks was arguably our best player at the time and IQ was struggling mightily with his shot #2 Thibs might have been protecting IQ by not starting him in a role he felt IQ wasn't ready for. He might have been protecting him to some degree by not giving the starting PG role. I think he's more invested in him than we think, although I hate how he seems to put a cap on his playing time. I wouldn't shocked to see IQ make a major leap next season.

Not moving players at the deadline was another joke. Thinking they should extend Randle and run it back with the other vets and bring in Kemba/Evan was just the worst possible run of decisions they could have made. The proof is in the pudding.

Agreed.

Are we excited for the summer yet? I'm excited that we didn't fall back in the draft! I can't wait to trade down with that pick and get some extra 2rd picks! I can't wait to see what they do in FA with no cap space and the Mitch decision looming!! I can't wait to see the roster come pre season!! With Randle/Burks/Evan/Noel/Rose/Taj all returning!! Roll treadmill!!!

The Knicks need to blow it all up.

[Chanel Bomber]

Then I think there's no excuse to play Grimes fewer minutes than Fournier. As far as who will play the most minutes, I can't predict that. But I hope Grimes plays more than Fournier, or at least closer to 30 minutes per game. I think the latter matters more, especially if he plays well like he did in 2022.

Burks played in a different role so it's hardly comparable. From secondary shot creator of a bench unit (a role in which he excelled by the way) to emergency starting point guard, a role a player like him should never be expected to take on (I blame the FO for this). Grimes is not expected to assume either of those roles.

fair point regarding burks.
soooo can we then agree that fournier will play more than grimes and burks will play more than IQ? alright, thx !

so are you admitting that you are defeated then? i guess you're just trolling cause nowhere in his post does he even insinuate that

let's also not gloss over the fact iq was **** horrendous for nearly 75% of the season and peaked when nothing mattered anymore. i don't know why people are complaining about him not getting more minutes and if i really wanted to be annoying i'm sure i could go back and see every single person talking **** about him (except maybe knixtape or nykmentality cause he's banned)

and it's not like chanel is tom putting burks out there - kemba was trash, derrick was hurt and iq was awful ... what's he gonna do? point taj? at some point you have to realize that the team was bad, it was constructed poorly and we lack talent. that's why we suck. not because chan types huge paragraphs about burks or whatever other player people hate

point taj

[G_K_F]

Then I think there's no excuse to play Grimes fewer minutes than Fournier. As far as who will play the most minutes, I can't predict that. But I hope Grimes plays more than Fournier, or at least closer to 30 minutes per game. I think the latter matters more, especially if he plays well like he did in 2022.

Burks played in a different role so it's hardly comparable. From secondary shot creator of a bench unit (a role in which he excelled by the way) to emergency starting point guard, a role a player like him should never be expected to take on (I blame the FO for this). Grimes is not expected to assume either of those roles.

fair point regarding burks.
soooo can we then agree that fournier will play more than grimes and burks will play more than IQ? alright, thx !

so are you admitting that you are defeated then? i guess you're just trolling cause nowhere in his post does he even insinuate that

let's also not gloss over the fact iq was **** horrendous for nearly 75% of the season and peaked when nothing mattered anymore. i don't know why people are complaining about him not getting more minutes and if i really wanted to be annoying i'm sure i could go back and see every single person talking **** about him (except maybe knixtape or nykmentality cause he's banned)

and it's not like chanel is tom putting burks out there - kemba was trash, derrick was hurt and iq was awful ... what's he gonna do? point taj? at some point you have to realize that the team was bad, it was constructed poorly and we lack talent. that's why we suck. not because chan types huge paragraphs about burks or whatever other player people hate

Again - both things can be true. The roster isn't good and the coach is a hardheaded idiot who values veterans over younger players.

I'd rather play McBride and tank to the top 5 of the draft than play Burks at point and have the 11th pick.

[Reign23]

Then I think there's no excuse to play Grimes fewer minutes than Fournier. As far as who will play the most minutes, I can't predict that. But I hope Grimes plays more than Fournier, or at least closer to 30 minutes per game. I think the latter matters more, especially if he plays well like he did in 2022.

Burks played in a different role so it's hardly comparable. From secondary shot creator of a bench unit (a role in which he excelled by the way) to emergency starting point guard, a role a player like him should never be expected to take on (I blame the FO for this). Grimes is not expected to assume either of those roles.

fair point regarding burks.
soooo can we then agree that fournier will play more than grimes and burks will play more than IQ? alright, thx !

so are you admitting that you are defeated then? i guess you're just trolling cause nowhere in his post does he even insinuate that

let's also not gloss over the fact iq was **** horrendous for nearly 75% of the season and peaked when nothing mattered anymore. i don't know why people are complaining about him not getting more minutes and if i really wanted to be annoying i'm sure i could go back and see every single person talking **** about him (except maybe knixtape or nykmentality cause he's banned)

and it's not like chanel is tom putting burks out there - kemba was trash, derrick was hurt and iq was awful ... what's he gonna do? point taj? at some point you have to realize that the team was bad, it was constructed poorly and we lack talent. that's why we suck. not because chan types huge paragraphs about burks or whatever other player people hate

lol no. we just had that same conversation many times. and when chanel points out that fournier only played 7.1 minutes more in a certain time span in january I have nothing else to add
and to IQ, I was on the IQ-sucks bandwagon all season. he did look good in the last 20 or so games and what the hell is the point in playing alec burks more minutes than him in an already lost season. to look what burks can become when he is 35?

[evevale]

Spoiler:

fair point regarding burks.
soooo can we then agree that fournier will play more than grimes and burks will play more than IQ? alright, thx !

so are you admitting that you are defeated then? i guess you're just trolling cause nowhere in his post does he even insinuate that

let's also not gloss over the fact iq was **** horrendous for nearly 75% of the season and peaked when nothing mattered anymore. i don't know why people are complaining about him not getting more minutes and if i really wanted to be annoying i'm sure i could go back and see every single person talking **** about him (except maybe knixtape or nykmentality cause he's banned)

and it's not like chanel is tom putting burks out there - kemba was trash, derrick was hurt and iq was awful ... what's he gonna do? point taj? at some point you have to realize that the team was bad, it was constructed poorly and we lack talent. that's why we suck. not because chan types huge paragraphs about burks or whatever other player people hate

Again - both things can be true. The roster isn't good and the coach is a hardheaded idiot who values veterans over younger players.

I'd rather player McBride and tank to the top 5 of the draft than play Burks at point and have the 11th pick.

partially agree. i was all for playing mcbride, sims, cam, all the young guys but i tempered my expectations w/ reality. reality in context to this conversation being tom. mcbride also didn't guarantee us any losses, let alone a potential top 5 pick ... his +/- when he did play was quite impressive if i remember correctly. if it was tanking that we wanted than we should have just played kemba until his leg fell off

the only point i'm trying to make is that people senselessly attack chan as if he's spouting pure nonsense, which he never has. he merely holds a different perspective than the majority of other posters and perhaps that gets lost in the length of his posts

i agree/disagree w/ chan about as equally as anyone else - i just don't try to change his mind about it or diminish his perspective simply because i disagree w/ it (not saying you, in particular, are doing that)

[evevale]

so are you admitting that you are defeated then? i guess you're just trolling cause nowhere in his post does he even insinuate that

let's also not gloss over the fact iq was **** horrendous for nearly 75% of the season and peaked when nothing mattered anymore. i don't know why people are complaining about him not getting more minutes and if i really wanted to be annoying i'm sure i could go back and see every single person talking **** about him (except maybe knixtape or nykmentality cause he's banned)

and it's not like chanel is tom putting burks out there - kemba was trash, derrick was hurt and iq was awful ... what's he gonna do? point taj? at some point you have to realize that the team was bad, it was constructed poorly and we lack talent. that's why we suck. not because chan types huge paragraphs about burks or whatever other player people hate

lol no. we just had that same conversation many times. and when chanel points out that fournier only played 7.1 minutes more in a certain time span in january I have nothing else to add
and to IQ, I was on the IQ-sucks bandwagon all season. he did look good in the last 20 or so games and what the hell is the point in playing alec burks more minutes than him in an already lost season. to look what burks can become when he is 35?

i know you are no fool reign, i'm just pointing out the context i think many people ignore when "engaging in debate" w/ chan

i agree that burks starting is asinine but starting iq doesn't change the trajectory of the team, doesn't help our lotto odds and can be argued that it would even help his develop considering how he finished

could mcbride have played more? sure? would it have made us better/worse? maybe a little? but our coach is tom thibodeau and some people choose to accept that reality while others dance around it while projecting their frustrations on others who rationalize (perhaps over rationalize) the status quo

nothing but respect for you reign ... just stop perpetuating chan's suffering, if for no one's sake other than my own. you don't want to see me suffer by proxy do you??

[Guano]

Yo Dot, read Kings of the Wyld off your recommendation here a while ago. Sht was fun - really enjoyed the light nature and self depreciation of the crew. Was a nice easy fun adventure after trying my hardest to slog through wheel of time.

[Gravy]

No NBA coach is coming to the Knicks and starting all the kids and benching the vets they just signed. its Wishful thinking that ignores the reality of the politics. Every coach plays their vets, the solution is to take the vets off the roster.

[Chanel Bomber]

fair point regarding burks.
soooo can we then agree that fournier will play more than grimes and burks will play more than IQ? alright, thx !

so are you admitting that you are defeated then? i guess you're just trolling cause nowhere in his post does he even insinuate that

let's also not gloss over the fact iq was **** horrendous for nearly 75% of the season and peaked when nothing mattered anymore. i don't know why people are complaining about him not getting more minutes and if i really wanted to be annoying i'm sure i could go back and see every single person talking **** about him (except maybe knixtape or nykmentality cause he's banned)

and it's not like chanel is tom putting burks out there - kemba was trash, derrick was hurt and iq was awful ... what's he gonna do? point taj? at some point you have to realize that the team was bad, it was constructed poorly and we lack talent. that's why we suck. not because chan types huge paragraphs about burks or whatever other player people hate

Again - both things can be true. The roster isn't good and the coach is a hardheaded idiot who values veterans over younger players.

I'd rather play McBride and tank to the top 5 of the draft than play Burks at point and have the 11th pick.

But the McBride piece doesn't happen in a vacuum without any consequences on the other players.

You'd rather play McBride with everything that comes with it. Including surrounding RJ with another non-shooter instead of a 39.1% 3-point shooter. So you have to assume that loss in spacing then. McBride was an Elfrid Payton level shooter this past year.

[Chanel Bomber]

No NBA coach is coming to the Knicks and starting all the kids and benching the vets they just signed. its Wishful thinking that ignores the reality of the politics. Every coach plays their vets, the solution is to take the vets off the roster.

Which is the responsibility of the front office.

As you said, it's not on the coach.

[Chanel Bomber]

fair point regarding burks.
soooo can we then agree that fournier will play more than grimes and burks will play more than IQ? alright, thx !

so are you admitting that you are defeated then? i guess you're just trolling cause nowhere in his post does he even insinuate that

let's also not gloss over the fact iq was **** horrendous for nearly 75% of the season and peaked when nothing mattered anymore. i don't know why people are complaining about him not getting more minutes and if i really wanted to be annoying i'm sure i could go back and see every single person talking **** about him (except maybe knixtape or nykmentality cause he's banned)

and it's not like chanel is tom putting burks out there - kemba was trash, derrick was hurt and iq was awful ... what's he gonna do? point taj? at some point you have to realize that the team was bad, it was constructed poorly and we lack talent. that's why we suck. not because chan types huge paragraphs about burks or whatever other player people hate

lol no. we just had that same conversation many times. and when chanel points out that fournier only played 7.1 minutes more in a certain time span in january I have nothing else to add
and to IQ, I was on the IQ-sucks bandwagon all season. he did look good in the last 20 or so games and what the hell is the point in playing alec burks more minutes than him in an already lost season. to look what burks can become when he is 35?

Maybe because Thibs doesn't want IQ to fail starting in a position that he's not yet ready for (starting point guard)? I am not saying that as a matter of fact, just suggesting the idea. Not to mention that Burks had been playing far better than IQ when the decision to start him and bench Kemba was made.

IQ has been good for the bench. Maybe it'll take him a couple of years to figure it all out and become a starter as a ball-handler/decision-maker. It doesn't have to happen in 2 years.

Plus Thibs stuck with IQ and kept giving him opportunities through his struggles this season. And I'm an advocate of giving IQ more minutes.

As for Grimes, Grimes only started playing in 2022, after he seized his opportunity and earned a spot in the rotation. I mention that time frame to exclude the games where RJ was out, and in which Grimes saw a significant increase in minutes and played closer to 37-38 minutes per game. Someone mentioned it to suggest this period inflating his numbers, hence I looked at the playing time prior to that stretch.