Anyone else just found the league better and more entertaining from 2008-2016?

[colts18]

The talent level in today's game is better than 2008-2016. However, I liked the style of play before the Warriors messed up the league with Pace and Space. There was a wide variety of styles of play. You had Big teams like the Grizzlies competing with the 3 point Warriors. That wouldn't happen today.

The talent level is at an all time low

I'm going to guess you are too young to have watched the NBA in the late 90's/early 2000's. 1997-2004 NBA wants to say a word to you

[falcolombardi]

same thing will be asked in the 2030's by people lamenting how is not 2022 basketball anymore

people in 2010's would use to say that the league was a lot better in the 2000's instead and reminisce about the early 2000's which was so much more interesting, diverse, more skilled players, better defense etc

i would know, i started followinf basketball exactly in this period (2008-2016 which was my teen and young kid years) and same thinghs were always said about basketball back then by older fans

and i am sure people in the 2000's said the same thingh about the 90's, and those in the 90's lamented jordan era and reminisce nostalgically about the magic and bird era

the only conclusion (that there is always gonna be strong nostalgia in any era) is that basketball was never the same after the shotclock and george mikan, everythingh has been downhill since

[tsherkin]

(3) Overreliance on the 3 point shot. Every team in the league shot over a 3rd of their shots from 3 last year and the leaders shot over 45%. It's too easy and to me, takes away some of the strategy and big man play.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/three-point-rate

But we have guys like Jokic and Embiid and Towns and so forth. And guard/wing post is also back up. Watching Doncic is a blast!

[penbeast0]

same thing will be asked in the 2030's by people lamenting how is not 2022 basketball anymore

people in 2010's would use to say that the league was a lot better in the 2000's instead and reminisce about the early 2000's which was so much more interesting, diverse, more skilled players, better defense etc

i would know, i started followinf basketball exactly in this period (2008-2016 which was my teen and young kid years) and same thinghs were always said about basketball back then by older fans

and i am sure people in the 2000's said the same thingh about the 90's, and those in the 90's lamented jordan era and reminisce nostalgically about the magic and bird era

the only conclusion (that there is always gonna be strong nostalgia in any era) is that basketball was never the same after the shotclock and george mikan, everythingh has been downhill since

Nah, the Original Celtics ruined it and Mikan cemented that ruin with the big man centered basketball. Before it was all movement and passing like a bunch of really good guys under 6' tall playing the game they love. It's been downhill since they started using metal rims instead of peach baskets.

[penbeast0]

(3) Overreliance on the 3 point shot. Every team in the league shot over a 3rd of their shots from 3 last year and the leaders shot over 45%. It's too easy and to me, takes away some of the strategy and big man play.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/three-point-rate

But we have guys like Jokic and Embiid and Towns and so forth. And guard/wing post is also back up. Watching Doncic is a blast!

When you take the same shot 46% of the time, whether it's layups, midrange jumpers, 3 pointers, etc. it starts to get a sameness that wasn't there when there was more reliance on post play, kick outs, fast breaks, and a variety of stylistic elements. I think we are overdue to move the line back a bit. Steph shoots it from 10' behind the line sometimes already and it's still a good shot.

[70sFan]

When you go back and watch games, it's shocking how much different officiating was - these clips are not from the 1970s, but from 1990s games:

Watch on YouTube

Read on Twitter

[tsherkin]

When you take the same shot 46% of the time, whether it's layups, midrange jumpers, 3 pointers, etc. it starts to get a sameness that wasn't there when there was more reliance on post play, kick outs, fast breaks, and a variety of stylistic elements. I think we are overdue to move the line back a bit. Steph shoots it from 10' behind the line sometimes already and it's still a good shot.

Oh no doubt. The aesthetic isn't for everyone. I'm looking at silver linings, though, because we haven't had this much post play since Olajuwon and Robinson were still 20+ ppg players, and I love it. I wouldn't move the line back, personally; I'm loving the impact this has had on slashers and post players, and not everyone is Steph. A lot of them are more like Lillard, where they ARE taking the shot and probably shouldn't (more like Steph THIS season, I suppose, because he's having quite a down year by his unearthly standards). But naturally, YMMV.

[falcolombardi]

(3) Overreliance on the 3 point shot. Every team in the league shot over a 3rd of their shots from 3 last year and the leaders shot over 45%. It's too easy and to me, takes away some of the strategy and big man play.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/three-point-rate

But we have guys like Jokic and Embiid and Towns and so forth. And guard/wing post is also back up. Watching Doncic is a blast!

When you take the same shot 46% of the time, whether it's layups, midrange jumpers, 3 pointers, etc. it starts to get a sameness that wasn't there when there was more reliance on post play, kick outs, fast breaks, and a variety of stylistic elements. I think we are overdue to move the line back a bit. Steph shoots it from 10' behind the line sometimes already and it's still a good shot.

you could apply it in reverse and say that the 80's didnt have much variety cause it was just midrange or rim, no 3 point plays

there have always been type of plays or shots who domimate a meta, it can be the isolation midrange or the post up, or the pick and roll but you will never get perfect variety

whenever i watch 80's or 90's games it often falls into repetitive post up spam just like modern basketbsll falls into repetitive picl and roll spam at times

i think we always overstate the idea that older eras had much more variety of play, by a ton

if basketball evolved in reverse we wpuld be lamenting the loss of the movement and quickness of the pace and space 90's into the slow isolation spamming of the 2020's

[tsherkin]

i think we always overstate the idea that older eras had much more variety of play, by a ton

Don't forget, and this isn't a shot at pen, that we have nostalgia for what we grew up with. Personally, I love watching good post play, from wings and guards and bigs. That it's coming back thrills me! But it's true, I also get sometimes tired of like Luka's stepback 3s and what have you. It's not the shot we're looking for. I enjoy watching Reggie and Ray work around screens. I enjoyed Jordan's mid-post game, and even a guy like Mark Aguirre. It isn't always about there being MORE variety so much as more of what we enjoy watching out of a game, you know? I'm with pen in the sense that sometimes it's frustrating to see a possession where they cross the timeline and 3, 4 seconds in, they jack a dumb three that doesn't have much of a chance to go in, don't send offensive rebounders and boom, we're going back the other way for the same... and 5 minutes of that gets old in a hurry. There are parallels to that in the older games without question, but a lot of it is somehow more palatable because it's what we remember/grew up with/prefer, etc.

[falcolombardi]

i think we always overstate the idea that older eras had much more variety of play, by a ton

Don't forget, and this isn't a shot at pen, that we have nostalgia for what we grew up with. Personally, I love watching good post play, from wings and guards and bigs. That it's coming back thrills me! But it's true, I also get sometimes tired of like Luka's stepback 3s and what have you. It's not the shot we're looking for. I enjoy watching Reggie and Ray work around screens. I enjoyed Jordan's mid-post game, and even a guy like Mark Aguirre. It isn't always about there being MORE variety so much as more of what we enjoy watching out of a game, you know? I'm with pen in the sense that sometimes it's frustrating to see a possession where they cross the timeline and 3, 4 seconds in, they jack a dumb three that doesn't have much of a chance to go in, don't send offensive rebounders and boom, we're going back the other way for the same... and 5 minutes of that gets old in a hurry. There are parallels to that in the older games without question, but a lot of it is somehow more palatable because it's what we remember/grew up with/prefer, etc.

i dont disagree , just wanted to give my perspective of it

the 3 point chucking you mention feels kinda similar to the isolation chucking where teams just gave the ball to their star, moved out of the way cause no zone rules and let him take a tough shot playing alone then the rival did the same thingh

i have been watching basketball since 2008 when i was a kid, and the same thinghs told now about 2022 in comparision to 2008 were told back then about 2008 in comparisiom to 1988 (even the factually wrong ones like there being less scoring in the 80's than the 00's were "common knowledge" cause there could of course be nothingh about olders eras that was not better)

i dont like diminishing eras and players the same way the era and players i grew up enjoying was diminished all the time by older fans, hell i still remember lebron miami seasons being diminished cause the early 10's had too much pace (somehow) and spacing vs older eras so numbers didnt mean anythingh

enjoying older eras more is great, but pretending they didnt have their own repetitiveness and had perfect variety is wrong imo

[tsherkin]

i dont disagree , just wanted to give my perspective of it

Naturally.

the 3 point chucking you mention feels kinda similar to the isolation chucking where teams just gave the ball to their star, moved out of the way cause no zone rules and let him take a tough shot playing alone then the rival did the same thingh

It's exactly the same, yeah. The aesthetic sameness is what pen is talking about. It doesn't really matter WHAT it is, so much as the repetition of it all.

i dont like diminishing eras and players the same way the era and players i grew up enjoying was diminished all the time by older fans, hell i still remember lebron miami seasons being diminished cause the early 10's had too much pace (somehow) and spacing vs older eras so numbers didnt mean anythingh

For sure. There's something in each era to enjoy. And of course what we grow up with, we enjoy more. That's just normal.

enjoying older eras more is great, but pretending they didnt have their own repetitiveness and had perfect variety is wrong imo

They clearly did, no question. Different stuff, but I mean, anything with as many possessions as a basketball game is going to have repetition. Teams find strategy and leverage it, and then others come to try and copy what works. Thematic stuff, for sure.

[penbeast0]

Actually, what I grew up with was the 70s and I don't have a lot of nostalgia for the cocaine cowboys, threats to jump leagues, quotes like "defense is for those who can't score," and the Virginia Squires who made the Sacramento Kings look like the Dallas Cowboys in comparison. There were great things in the era, particularly the perpetually competitive Washington Bullets (hard to believe, I know), the brilliance of young Kareem and Dr. J, etc. but looking back, I believe both the 60s and the 80s were much better eras of basketball.

I like the return of great centers to the league to and really love the great foreign players who provide an international flavor to the league, but while you can't fix Covid, and tanking is smart business, the over spamming of 3's is something of an easy fix to me.

[tsherkin]

Actually, what I grew up with was the 70s and I don't have a lot of nostalgia for the cocaine cowboys, threats to jump leagues, quotes like "defense is for those who can't score," and the Virginia Squires who made the Sacramento Kings look like the Dallas Cowboys in comparison. There were great things in the era, particularly the perpetually competitive Washington Bullets (hard to believe, I know), the brilliance of young Kareem and Dr. J, etc. but looking back, I believe both the 60s and the 80s were much better eras of basketball.

The basic premise stands. You don't like stuff JUST because you grew up with it, but the stuff that attracts you to the sport and the era which you found most appealing will carry forward as the sport evolves, is more my point.

I like the return of great centers to the league to and really love the great foreign players who provide an international flavor to the league, but while you can't fix Covid, and tanking is smart business, the over spamming of 3's is something of an easy fix to me.

I would be fairly sad if they moved the line, personally, but I see what you're saying. I am also really fond of the influx of international players and the return of big-time post play!

[cupcakesnake]

I think more than ever, NBA basketball is so strategic and tactical. Offenses have become so potent and that has made defenses so reactive. Guys on playoff teams have to be very smart. Offensive and defensive weaknesses get relentlessly played off the floor. Players and coaches feel so optimized. There's fewer wasted possessions. As recently as 8 years ago, non-shooting bigs would still jack a shot every now and then just because why not. We had a lot of heliocentric offense built around inefficient players. Now teams have much more solid principles and plans.

I think especially since the Warriors fell apart (injuries in 2019 and Durant leaving) we've seen so many interesting 2-way teams fill the void. On top of that, the Eastern Conference now has some very well-run franchises (Toronto, Boston, Miami, Milwaukee... almost everyone is solid except for New York and Washington).

The playoffs the past 2 years specifically has offered a level playing field where 6-9 teams feel like legit contenders. In the second round this year, every team (except Phili) looked like a championship contender.

[Blazers-1977]

2008, 2011, 2013, 2016 had some of the the most exciting playoffs as well

[Blazers-1977]

I find the league always entertaining personally.

The worst season to me as a fan was probably the 2007 season, but even that season had plenty of dramatic moments.

Imo the 2016-17 season was easily the worst given how predictable it was

[oaktownwarriors87]

I mean, the league definitely was better because Duncan was there...

You surely mean "because the would-have-been greatest point guard of our generation wasn't robbed of his athleticism by injuries yet".

Not talking about Rose or Wall, obviously.

Ricky Rubio?

[Dr Positivity]

It's not even close for me (prefer late 00s and early 10s), but it has to do more with personal reasons

Objectively as I can it seems like the NBA could be heading into a pretty good generation with these internationals probably more interested in beating each other than playing with each other.

[RCM88x]

I think this is probably the best the league has been in a long time. There a lot of parity unlike a lot of seasons in the recent past. Doesn't seem like there's this insane arms race going on anymore where only three or four teams actually have the talent to even consider themselves a contender.