Can someone please explain to me why KG is ranked so high on this site seriously.

[coastalmarker99]

KG was ranked 11th all-time on this site and above players such as

Kobe Bryant

Jerry West

Oscar Robertson

Dirk Nowitzki

Karl Malone

David Robinson

Julius Erving

Moses Malone

Kevin Durant

Stephen Curry


For me personally, Garnett was very very good and well rounded but he had limitations.


He was never going to be your best offensive player and if he was, you weren't making it to the finals.


He constantly was unable to elevate his game in the playoffs.

He was never good at getting to the FT line and settled for mid-range jumpers way too often.

He was below average from an efficiency standpoint, in 17 seasons he scored 30+ points in a playoff game just 9 times.

I think folks see that he was a 20+ PPG scorer a few seasons and assume he was just a step below Dirk, Kobe or even Duncan offensively and it just isn't the case.

[coastalmarker99]

Do you know that out of any...I say any all-time great big man, KG has the lowest offensive efficiency. Let's list them:

Karl Malone

Barkley

Duncan

Dirk

Hakeem

Ewing

Robinson



Moses Malone

Shaq

Embiid

Jokic

Kareem

Wilt


Kevin Garnett is at the bottom of all these other guys with his efficiency.

Garnett is so bad that a better comparison for his TS% is Allen Iverson.

Then when it comes to the playoffs,

Garnett's efficiency really starts to crater. He becomes a liability scoring.

One of the reasons why KG's efficiency is so bad is that he can't get to the line.

In the playoffs, you need your bigs to get to the FT line for easy points.


This is the second major knock against KG:

He cannot get to the FT line consistently in the playoffs. Period.

Getting to the FT line is just as important as efficient 3pt shooting and that is consistent for any era.

Garnett can't do it.

Compare Garnett to Charles Barkley, who is the efficiency monster.

Barkley's career FTr is .533 and in his prime it was consistently over .600...in the playoffs.

Garnett's career FTr is .263 and only twice in his career did he get over .500

In plain terms KG gets four FTA's per game...that is just sad as a great big man.


It means, he is shooting a lot of 18-22ft jumpers.

Which he is only average at best making.

It's not like he is Kobe/Jordan/CP3/Durant in the mid-range.

KG is just an average scorer and inefficient for his position.

So what you are getting is an Elite defender with average efficiency on offence.


Is that a great player...yes, but it is not top 10 alltime.



Especially when you consider that he has only one MVP and Zero FMVP's to go along with one ring despite playing on a super team from 2008 to 2010.

[coastalmarker99]

Here are KG' playoff stats vs Jerry West's playoff stats


Please do note that this is someone who is he ranked over.


Here are Jerry West's elimination games averages

13 11 W-L record

29.3 PPG (Regular season career average is 27.0 ppg)

6.4 RPG (Regular season career average is 5.8 rpg)

6.4 APG (Regular season career average is 6.7 APG)

55% TS (Regular season career average is 54.9 TS%)


Here are Jerry West's game seven averages

4- 5 W-L record

30.9 PPG (Regular season career average is 27.0 ppg)

7.7 RPG (Regular season career average is 5.8 rpg)

6.8 APG (Regular season career average is 6.7 APG)

47.9 FG% (Regular season career average is 47.4 FG%)

TS% 54.3 Regular season career average is 54.9 TS%)



Here are Jerry West's finals averages

30.5 PPG (Regular season career average is 27.0 ppg)

5.0 RPG (Regular season career average is 5.8 rpg)

5.6 APG (Regular season career average is 6.7 APG)

45.9 FG% (Regular season career average is 47.4 FG%)


Here are KG's finals averages

16.8 PPG (Regular season career average is 17.8 ppg)

9.0 RPG (Regular season career average is 10.0 rpg)

3.0 APG (Regular season career average is 3.7 APG)

46.6 FG% (Regular season career average is 49.7 FG%)

1.2 BPG (Regular season career average is 1.4 BPG)

1.5 STL (Regular season career average is 1.3 STL)



Here are KG' elimination game averages

9 Wins, 12 Losses


18.2 PPG (Regular season career average is 17.8 ppg)

12.5 RPG (Regular season career average is 10.0 rpg)

4.2 APG (Regular season career average is 3.7 APG)

46.6 FG% (Regular season career average is 49.7 FG%)

71.7 FT% (Regular season career average is 78.9%)

1.2 BPG (Regular season career average is 1.4 BPG)

1.3 STL (Regular season career average is 1.3 STL)

3.0 TOV (Regular season career average is 2.2 TOV)


Here are KG's game seven averages

17.7 PPG (Regular season career average is 17.8 ppg)

11.3 RPG (Regular season career average is 10.0 rpg)

2.0 APG (Regular season career average is 3.7 APG)

52.5 FG% (Regular season career average is 49.7 FG%)

67.9 FT% (Regular season career average is 78.9%)

1.6 BPG (Regular season career average is 1.4 BPG)

1.3 STL (Regular season career average is 1.3 STL)

1.6 TOV (Regular season career average is 2.2 TOV)

[coastalmarker99]

Here is an interesting topic to ponder and that is why is KG so overrated on Real GM compared to someone such as David Robinson.


For the 1993/94 season to 1994/95 season


Robinson averaged 28 points, 10 rebounds, 3 assists, 3.3 blocks & 1.7 steals.

Robinson shot 51% from the floor & 76% from the line (11 FTAs per game)

In 1994, Robinson was the MVP runner-up & DPOY runner-up.

In 1994, Robinson led the Spurs to the 6th-best record in the league but lost in the 1st Round to the Jazz.

In 1995, Robinson won the MVP but finished 4th in voting for the DPOY.

In 1995, Robinson led the Spurs to the best record in the league and lost in the Conference Finals to the Rockets.

Robinson's supporting cast during his MVP season: Avery Johnson, Sean Elliot & Dennis Rodman


Robinson was in a similar situation as KG was for most of his career and had much more success than KG did when he was with the wolves compared to Robinson before Duncan


KG got out of the first round one time his whole career with the wolves.

Robinson at least managed that 4 times.

And he got the spurs to 55+ wins 5 times.

KG did that once with the wolves.

Robinson did that in 7 years, the same amount of years KG was in Minnesota once he turned the same age as Robinson in his rookie year.

All you have to do is look at how terribly the spurs did when Robinson was hurt at the beginning of the 1997 season to see how hard he carried the team.

They went 3-15 before Robinson came back and I seriously doubt the spurs were planning on tanking from the beginning of the season that year.

[coastalmarker99]

I seriously don't understand the thinking for someone putting KG over guys such as West.


As West utterly destroys KG when it comes to game sevens and elimination games along with performing in the NBA finals and in general the playoffs.


And we are not even accounting for blocks or Steals as West was an elite defensive player, so he probably had his share of steals and even blocks as well.

[falcolombardi]

just want to comment that most of these arguments read fsirly similarly to chris paul criticisms

my theory feels redeemed

but now being serious, the main reason is that he has one of the most impressive impact stat profiles ever (like robinson) which is fairly better than his boxscore rep

his presence on the court just wildly improved teams

[coastalmarker99]

just want to comment that most of these arguments read fsirly similarly to chris paul criticisms

my theory feels redeemed

but now being serious, the main reason is that he has one of the most impressive impact stat profiles ever (like robinson) which is fairly better than his boxscore rep

his presence on the court just wildly improved teams

If that is the case then it makes me wonder why isn't Robinson ranked higher then

When you can easily make the same case for him using advanced stats as you can with KG.

[Matt15]

Mostly because they put a lot of weight into impact stats and believe he was close to or on Duncan’s level but just unlucky to have bad teammates for most of his prime. The years he did have a good team he went to the WCF in ’04 and won a title in ’08 as the teams best player. I also believe Robinson was the better player than KG but I think what hurts him in an all-time sense is his longevity compared to KG.

[migya]

just want to comment that most of these arguments read fsirly similarly to chris paul criticisms

my theory feels redeemed

but now being serious, the main reason is that he has one of the most impressive impact stat profiles ever (like robinson) which is fairly better than his boxscore rep

his presence on the court just wildly improved teams

If that is the case then it makes me wonder why isn't Robinson ranked higher then

When you can easily make the same case for him using advanced stats as you can with KG.

Robinson is better.

[LA Bird]

"Can someone explain why player X is ranked so high/low by this board" threads always seem so disingenuous to me. Unless you are a brand new poster here, you already know why. Garnett is the single most polarizing player on this forum and the arguments for and against him have been rehashed to death a million times already. It is totally fine to disagree with the pro-KG guys but don't feign ignorance and pretend like you have no idea why they rank KG so highly. It's not like the top 100 list was a secret project with zero transparency - you can always go back and see every single vote and why everyone voted the way they did.

[dygaction]

just want to comment that most of these arguments read fsirly similarly to chris paul criticisms

my theory feels redeemed

but now being serious, the main reason is that he has one of the most impressive impact stat profiles ever (like robinson) which is fairly better than his boxscore rep

his presence on the court just wildly improved teams

No, his impact does not translate to team wining, but translate from ordinary boxscore to selected impressive impact stats in certain areas. Same as CP3.

[migya]

just want to comment that most of these arguments read fsirly similarly to chris paul criticisms

my theory feels redeemed

but now being serious, the main reason is that he has one of the most impressive impact stat profiles ever (like robinson) which is fairly better than his boxscore rep

his presence on the court just wildly improved teams

No, his impact does not translate to team wining, but translate from ordinary boxscore to selected impressive impact stats in certain areas. Same as CP3.

I think Garnett is overrated on here but saying his impact doesn't help to his teams winning is a joke. No way the TWolves win even 20 games regularly without him. Replace him with Giannis and they make they playoffs two or three times. The Celtics go from quite bad to 66 wins and championship.

[dygaction]

just want to comment that most of these arguments read fsirly similarly to chris paul criticisms

my theory feels redeemed

but now being serious, the main reason is that he has one of the most impressive impact stat profiles ever (like robinson) which is fairly better than his boxscore rep

his presence on the court just wildly improved teams

No, his impact does not translate to team wining, but translate from ordinary boxscore to selected impressive impact stats in certain areas. Same as CP3.

I think Garnett is overrated on here but saying his impact doesn't help to his teams winning is a joke. No way the TWolves win even 20 games regularly without him. Replace him with Giannis and they make they playoffs two or three times. The Celtics go from quite bad to 66 wins and championship.

You mean in 05/06/07?

[70sFan]

You can read top 100 project, it's the best start.

[Jaivl]

We are homers and we like screaming on the court

[TheGOATRises007]

His on-off numbers are through the roof. He was surrounded by awful role players and played on a terrible franchise that wasted his physical peak/prime and still led them to the playoffs. The team crumbled without him.

Their rosters year in and year out were pretty similar to the dumpster fire that was the Lakers this season.

He then pioneered perhaps the best defense in the past 20 years in the 08 Celtics. If KG didn't get injured in 09, I think they would have repeated. His impact numbers were incredible then and during the Celtics' run in 2012, KG was spearheading them again.

I too think sometimes KG gets overrated on here, but he was an incredible player.

He is not a great volume scorer. You don't need to be a great volume scorer to have incredible impact.

[NO-KG-AI]

KG has had probably more research and numbers thrown in his defense than any other player on this site in RealGM's history. And people still come on here and are like "I don't know why guys like him, look at his ppg, and look at it compared to other eras where it was way easier to score!"

[Stalwart]

I will say that this board has forced me to appreciate KG more than I otherwise would have. I still think #11 is egregious but top 20 is reasonable.

He was a great player who accomplished everything but leading his own team to a title of which he only had one legitimate opportunity to do in 04.

[Max123]

People who are high on Garnett may regard him as the greatest defender of his era (which is saying a lot considering who he played with at the same time) while also being a good-to-great scorer (while acknowledging he falls short of some bigs) with better playmaking than most of the all-time big men. Add onto that his versatile skillset which is seemingly the perfect addition to any team at any time and you get a pretty impressive player.

[PistolPeteJR]

OP put up 4 monster posts, none of which talked about defense.

/thread