2021-22 NBA Season Discussion

[sp6r=underrated]

I saw this posted on the GB but it is a fair question: will the increasingly high 3par lead to playoffs with more blowouts even if teams are closely matched?

Consider this, going into the RS we only had two teams with 6 SRS, and there were no elite teams +8 SrS. You would expect close games. There have been 71 playoff games so far

1 OT
16 games decided by 4 or less points
34 games decided by 9 or less points
20 games decided by 20 or more points.


In 2012 through the first 71 playoff games we had
4 OTs
24 games decided by 4 or less points
39 games decided by 9 or less points
7 Games decided by 20 or more points

I'd really need to do study every year but something to consider.

[dontcalltimeout]

I think Richard Hamilton said yesterday on NBA Today that it always took the first two games of the finals for the Cavs to adjust to how Golden State plays because they're so unique.

GSW was sharp last night, and guys like Looney and Wiggins were very good. I think a lot of last night was Dallas being jarred by that difference, exacerbated by having had so many reps of playing defense against what are essentially P&R attacks in Utah and Phoenix.

[parsnips33]

I thought it was super interesting they started Draymond on Brunson last night. Certainly did not see that coming

[Texas Chuck]

I thought it was super interesting they started Draymond on Brunson last night. Certainly did not see that coming

And Dallas kept that matchup at the other end, which a lot of people expected considering who Dallas has assigned Brunson to throughout these playoffs(Bojan and Bridges primarily).

Draymond can definitely keep Brunson from living at the rim, but Brunson was getting to his midrange spots without much trouble despite the matchup. But it makes sense as you don't want him on Luka or having to watch one of the shooters removing him further from the action.

[parsnips33]

Also nothing gets me more hype than when Draymond blocks a 3 pointer. I still have the blocked 3 on Kyle Lowry in the 2019 Finals as my phone wallpaper

[Doctor MJ]

couldnt watch the game last night

were the warriors that good or dallas that bad? (or both?)

Dallas missed some open shots early that helped set the tone, but overall I’d lean towards GS being that good last night.

Precisely this. If you go watch the 3rd quarter, what you see is apex Warriors beautiful basketball. A sight to behold.

There's a question not only of when the Mavs will shoot better, but whether shooting better could keep the Warriors from shifting into top gear.

One thing I will say: Dallas may end up winning this series, but I think Memphis has shown a specific ability to muddy the way the Warriors play repeatedly. I think stylistically, the Grizz may be the worst matchup for the Warriors, and they loom large in the future when considering how long GS can expect to keep advancing.

[Doctor MJ]

I saw this posted on the GB but it is a fair question: will the increasingly high 3par lead to playoffs with more blowouts even if teams are closely matched?

Consider this, going into the RS we only had two teams with 6 SRS, and there were no elite teams +8 SrS. You would expect close games. There have been 71 playoff games so far

1 OT
16 games decided by 4 or less points
34 games decided by 9 or less points
20 games decided by 20 or more points.


In 2012 through the first 71 playoff games we had
4 OTs
24 games decided by 4 or less points
39 games decided by 9 or less points
7 Games decided by 20 or more points

I'd really need to do study every year but something to consider.

Yup, I think that's happening and it's something for the NBA to consider doing something about in the future.

I would not be hasty to curtail this because you have to keep in mind all the infrastructure that came before that led us to this point, but there are cons to 3-point shooting's volatility that go beyond half-court aesthetics.

[Doctor MJ]

Yeah Curry has definitely had a rough go of it this postseason. Shooting like 35% from 3 so far?

I don't think he's really in that conversation anymore, he's just not played well enough for a long enough time. I sort of wonder if them distributing shots to more guys has hurt his rhythm. He's always been very much a rhythm and hot/cold player so I feel like with Poole and Klay getting more shots now that he's just not able to get in the groove as much. Granted, maybe that's intentional because he's just not hitting those shots at a high enough rate.

If I were to rank him I'd put him in the bottom half of the top 10.

So I'd agree with the general: I think that the Curry is not as able to consistently get into grooves when he's forced to play more team ball, and I think the same is true for basically all volume scorers.

I'd just be wary about thinking of that as the same thing as reducing that player's value to the team.

[Doctor MJ]

It's just a one game, but it looked rough for Dallas on both ends of the floor. They have to adjust their gameplan, because they looked lost on defense.

By the way, what's your thought on Curry? Do you still see him as the absolute top tier player in the league? It seems that Warriors at this point rely on their system and team chemistry more than ever before. Curry still has his moments, but does he look like the best player in the league candidate?

i struggle to see a case for steph over giannis. jokic has probably even surpassed steph offensively

i think steph is a top 5 player but i'd probably say that he's closer to lebron than he is to giannis.. although i am not as high on steph defensively as some people are.

Do you believe Giannis or Jokic could play Curry's role? If not, what's your basis for comparison?

[Outside]

couldnt watch the game last night

were the warriors that good or dallas that bad? (or both?)

Dallas missed some open shots early that helped set the tone, but overall I’d lean towards GS being that good last night.

Precisely this. If you go watch the 3rd quarter, what you see is apex Warriors beautiful basketball. A sight to behold.

There's a question not only of when the Mavs will shoot better, but whether shooting better could keep the Warriors from shifting into top gear.

One thing I will say: Dallas may end up winning this series, but I think Memphis has shown a specific ability to muddy the way the Warriors play repeatedly. I think stylistically, the Grizz may be the worst matchup for the Warriors, and they loom large in the future when considering how long GS can expect to keep advancing.

Yep, the third quarter was the epitome of Warriors basketball, including inexplicably bad turnovers

[falcolombardi]

It's just a one game, but it looked rough for Dallas on both ends of the floor. They have to adjust their gameplan, because they looked lost on defense.

By the way, what's your thought on Curry? Do you still see him as the absolute top tier player in the league? It seems that Warriors at this point rely on their system and team chemistry more than ever before. Curry still has his moments, but does he look like the best player in the league candidate?

i struggle to see a case for steph over giannis. jokic has probably even surpassed steph offensively

i think steph is a top 5 player but i'd probably say that he's closer to lebron than he is to giannis.. although i am not as high on steph defensively as some people are.

Do you believe Giannis or Jokic could play Curry's role? If not, what's your basis for comparison?

i mean, yeah?

giannis cannot play curry role, neither can curry play jokic role, or jokic giannis role so i dont get your point?

this is a confusing post doc

[Lou Fan]

It's just a one game, but it looked rough for Dallas on both ends of the floor. They have to adjust their gameplan, because they looked lost on defense.

By the way, what's your thought on Curry? Do you still see him as the absolute top tier player in the league? It seems that Warriors at this point rely on their system and team chemistry more than ever before. Curry still has his moments, but does he look like the best player in the league candidate?

Just outside the conversation. I still view him as a top 5 player though. Playoffs haven't been great for him so far but I still think the worse shooting will get fixed at some point. It's weird seeing him shoot mid 30s from 3 for this long. Thing is it doesn't matter that much because they still guard him like he hits 40+%.

[RCM88x]

Yeah Curry has definitely had a rough go of it this postseason. Shooting like 35% from 3 so far?

I don't think he's really in that conversation anymore, he's just not played well enough for a long enough time. I sort of wonder if them distributing shots to more guys has hurt his rhythm. He's always been very much a rhythm and hot/cold player so I feel like with Poole and Klay getting more shots now that he's just not able to get in the groove as much. Granted, maybe that's intentional because he's just not hitting those shots at a high enough rate.

If I were to rank him I'd put him in the bottom half of the top 10.

So I'd agree with the general: I think that the Curry is not as able to consistently get into grooves when he's forced to play more team ball, and I think the same is true for basically all volume scorers.

I'd just be wary about thinking of that as the same thing as reducing that player's value to the team.

I should have added that I don't think his impact is reliant on his "box scores" like most other players. It's been proven this year that even if he has a 3-14 shooting night he can still be the most impactful player on the offensive side of the ball.

Now, could you throw him into any offense and still extract that value with those shooting numbers? Almost certainly not, which is why I rate him around where I do. He's more reliant on the system than ever, and I think that matters a bit. Not every team can run the GS style of offense, in fact no one can because it's yet to be successfully replicated nearly a decade later.

[parsnips33]

Total non-sequitur but the more I think about it, the more I wish we had seen a Memphis vs Denver series. I'd have been very interested to see how Jokic's defense would have fared against Ja, who is not in the Steph/Poole/Lillard/CP3 mold of pull up jump shooters. Also would have been interesting to see how Memphis could leverage their big frontcourt against Denver

[Doctor MJ]

i struggle to see a case for steph over giannis. jokic has probably even surpassed steph offensively

i think steph is a top 5 player but i'd probably say that he's closer to lebron than he is to giannis.. although i am not as high on steph defensively as some people are.

Do you believe Giannis or Jokic could play Curry's role? If not, what's your basis for comparison?

i mean, yeah?

giannis cannot play curry role, neither can curry play jokic role, or jokic giannis role so i dont get your point?

this is a confusing post doc

Point being that it's not easy to compare players who play the game completely differently, and thus it's worth asking how someone is determining their preference in some comparisons.

All this might seem pedantic and call for a response of "It's obviously complicated and I'm not going to into it every time I make a post.", but Jalen said he "struggled" to see a case, which leads us to ask questions pertaining to that struggle.

[parsnips33]

Is Steph reliant on the system or is the system reliant on him?

[Lou Fan]

Yeah Curry has definitely had a rough go of it this postseason. Shooting like 35% from 3 so far?

I don't think he's really in that conversation anymore, he's just not played well enough for a long enough time. I sort of wonder if them distributing shots to more guys has hurt his rhythm. He's always been very much a rhythm and hot/cold player so I feel like with Poole and Klay getting more shots now that he's just not able to get in the groove as much. Granted, maybe that's intentional because he's just not hitting those shots at a high enough rate.

If I were to rank him I'd put him in the bottom half of the top 10.

So I'd agree with the general: I think that the Curry is not as able to consistently get into grooves when he's forced to play more team ball, and I think the same is true for basically all volume scorers.

I'd just be wary about thinking of that as the same thing as reducing that player's value to the team.

I should have added that I don't think his impact is reliant on his "box scores" like most other players. It's been proven this year that even if he has a 3-14 shooting night he can still be the most impactful player on the offensive side of the ball.

Now, could you throw him into any offense and still extract that value with those shooting numbers? Almost certainly not, which is why I rate him around where I do. He's more reliant on the system than ever, and I think that matters a bit. Not every team can run the GS style of offense, in fact no one can because it's yet to be successfully replicated nearly a decade later.

How can you not credit Curry for that? The GS offense is the Curry offense. Sure that's reductive and Draymond deserves a lot of credit but Curry is the person that allows them to play this way. Also, it's not like you can't put him on the ball more and run more high P&Rs and have an elite offense. Second half of last year they played a more normal style and he was the best player in the world (imo). No reason to think he couldn't do that elsewhere.

[Doctor MJ]

Total non-sequitur but the more I think about it, the more I wish we had seen a Memphis vs Denver series. I'd have been very interested to see how Jokic's defense would have fared against Ja, who is not in the Steph/Poole/Lillard/CP3 mold of pull up jump shooters. Also would have been interesting to see how Memphis could leverage their big frontcourt against Denver

I think the short answer is "Not well", but I do think it's important to remember that so long as Denver is playing the backcourt it's playing, there's no reason to think they can stop any quick guards, and the same would be true even with better defensive bigs.

[parsnips33]

Total non-sequitur but the more I think about it, the more I wish we had seen a Memphis vs Denver series. I'd have been very interested to see how Jokic's defense would have fared against Ja, who is not in the Steph/Poole/Lillard/CP3 mold of pull up jump shooters. Also would have been interesting to see how Memphis could leverage their big frontcourt against Denver

I think the short answer is "Not well", but I do think it's important to remember that so long as Denver is playing the backcourt it's playing, there's no reason to think they can stop any quick guards, and the same would be true even with better defensive bigs.

But you'd imagine they'd be able to get away with a more conventional drop defense which at least keeps Jokic more in his comfort zone defensively.

You're probably right though

[Colbinii]

Is Steph reliant on the system or is the system reliant on him?

I would say the driving catalyst for the Warriors success since 2015 has been its relentless and consistently great defense.

Could the defense operate to a similar degree with a game manager like Chris Paul at the helm or an electric rim attacker like Ja Morant/Derrick Rose?