Bob Cousy claps back at JJ Redick

[Duke4life831]

Before slandering JJ can we recognize the context where he said this? He made that comment in reaction to the slander Mad Dog Russo was throwing on Chris Paul. Context is pretty important here and it's obvious Mad Dog is extremely biased towards previous gen players.

I'm not even a CP3 fan but Mad Dog said he wouldn't be a top 5 PG ever even if he won a championship, then went on to say Bob Cousy is undoubtedly better than him, like c'mon

Watch on YouTube

Well, since we're on the subject of context and if we're going to frame it on the subject of greatness, JJ Redick is the proverbial fireman or plumber of his era.

A career scrub whose arrogance has always outpaced his talent level.

You can't compare players across era's and as absurd as Russo's take on Cousy vs. Paul is, Reddick is equally absurd with the suggestion that a championship is what put Paul in the conversation as the greatest ever.

And Id say youre equally absurd with your take that Redick was a career scrub. In his prime he was a 16ppg on 61 TS% (that is over an 8 year stretch). A career scrub isnt an everyday locked in starter for playoff teams and averaging 16ppg (up to 18ppg) on 61 TS% for close to a decade, and having a 15 year career.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Before slandering JJ can we recognize the context where he said this? He made that comment in reaction to the slander Mad Dog Russo was throwing on Chris Paul. Context is pretty important here and it's obvious Mad Dog is extremely biased towards previous gen players.

I'm not even a CP3 fan but Mad Dog said he wouldn't be a top 5 PG ever even if he won a championship, then went on to say Bob Cousy is undoubtedly better than him, like c'mon

Watch on YouTube

You need to agree on a method to compare people who played in such different eras.
I can imagine that in a very in-era dominant logic (that is as good as any other) Cousy could come on top

___
Sent from my Nokia 3210 using RealGM mobile app

[SweetTouch]

JJ just keeps owning this old man

Had him pay someone to set this up and everything

He’s out there living rent free in this old geezer who should be enjoying retirement life

[jc23]

yeah there's a thread about that too

Back when that thread was made, only plumbers and firemen made threads. This one is much more respectable.

you know what i dont care about the people that posted in that thread, i dont care.

[gavran]

JJ just keeps owning this old man

Had him pay someone to set this up and everything

He’s out there living rent free in this old geezer who should be enjoying retirement life

Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrre.

[queridiculo]

And Id say youre equally absurd with your take that Redick was a career scrub. In his prime he was a 16ppg on 61 TS% (that is over an 8 year stretch). A career scrub isnt an everyday locked in starter for playoff teams and averaging 16ppg (up to 18ppg) on 61 TS% for close to a decade, and having a 15 year career.

The context is greatness my friend.

Reddick has never come close to it, he's his era's fireman and plumber.

[jman3134]

1950's 60's basketball would be unrecognizable from the game played today. It wasn't even the same strategy without the three point line. Those making fun of 50's players dribbling don't understand that most moves in the current toolset were called a carry or a palm (unless you had your hand directly on the top of the ball as you see with Cousy). And basically everything was called an offensive foul back then (if you moved into the defender at all). With no 3pt line, defenses converge down 100% in the halfcourt, making FG% lower across the board (especially if you were a guard), though shooting mechanics were undoubtedly perfected later.

The whole exercise is comparing apples to oranges.

[garrick]

JJ isn't wrong that the pioneers of basketball weren't athletic freaks but there isn't anything wrong with saying that.

The NBA today has the best athletes from around the world they'd generally be able to out run and out jump most of them today.

[Jables]

Saying NBA players had to have another job in the offseason as some put down is the weakest ****. It's harder work plumbing than putting a ball in a basket when 90% of players have the same output for nearly their entire career, and we're supposed to believe these guys sleep in a gym practicing? JJ Redick "Well actually he's not that bad on defen- ... omg he turned it over in the clutch again" was a one trick pony, no right at all to **** on old stars.

[rilamann]

Feels like JJ Reddick losses credibility every time he opens his mouth. Not that he had a ton to begin with.

[JN61]

Bob Cousy is a Hall of Famer that never shot 40% from the field a single season in his career. That entire era was trash. And just like his career, he missed again.

Different game and also remember bigs could stand in lane all day every day compared to now. I would love to see this generation of guys going to work next day as a construction worker and take a bus 500 km away for an away game.

They already cry when they have to play back to back days for crying out loud...

[TheWhiteMamba]

I agree with JJ when he says you can't compare early NBA Basketball of the '60 with current NBA. The differences between rules, society, life in general are too big. Obviously it's not great that he said "plumbers and firemen" in a diminishing way, he might have chosen better words

[Slava]

Meh all Cousy did was name the best players in his era, not the average ones. Still, players back then did not have the same infrastructure and resources that players today have. So there's no reason to expect very talented players from waaay back in the day would still be dribbling with one hand and stuff like that. You respect the people that laid the foundation.

To be fair, no one's going to remember the likes of Shane Battier, Kevon Looney or Kentavious Caldwell-Pope 40 years from now either and they are all championship caliber role players.

[JN61]

Most guards of today including Reddick would dribble worse than Cousy if they called traveling/palming today like they did back then.

Not necesarrily true. I got called for carries probably every other game in gradeschool while simply bringing the ball up court and calling a play. Players today are a taking advantage of the NBA not caring but to act as if they couldnt adapt is ridiculous. We were brought up with the same rules as Cousy played with and players today still excelled at those levels.

No you weren't... Unless you grew up in 50s. They allowed far more flexibility with position with ball to side of basketball far later. Before it you couldn't move hand at all from the top. It's not just NBA thing it's basketball wide change. NBA just doesn't care about the rule anymore.

[JN61]

That's a bad take imo, one look at Jimmy B's dribbling routine from a few months ago would rebut that. The relaxed rules just allow for more explosivness but, with their athetlic ability, they would still be able to blow by Cousy and his opponents if rules were followed as they were meant to be. They would be forced to focus on that more and still excel.

Jimmy Butler isn't even a guard, right on this Heat team? You are trying to put words in my mouth. Butler has very good dribbling skills for a SF but not if he has a full head of steam....those skills don't compare to Cousy compared to what I have seen over the years. Difference between a PG and a SG/SF.
.

Lol calm down. Cousy's full head of a steam would have P Bev stopping him in a second.

Probably under today's rules. But back then? Hahaha.. NO. He would be called for foul every time. Game was far more finesse on both sides of the court.

[BrianFitz]

Bob Cousy is a Hall of Famer that never shot 40% from the field a single season in his career. That entire era was trash. And just like his career, he missed again.

How does it feel to literally be the only one in this thread with a d-bag take like this. Good on you. You're edgy and contrarian and we all can't help but admire you.

[JN61]

Before slandering JJ can we recognize the context where he said this? He made that comment in reaction to the slander Mad Dog Russo was throwing on Chris Paul. Context is pretty important here and it's obvious Mad Dog is extremely biased towards previous gen players.

I'm not even a CP3 fan but Mad Dog said he wouldn't be a top 5 PG ever even if he won a championship, then went on to say Bob Cousy is undoubtedly better than him, like c'mon

Watch on YouTube

Depends how you look at the ranking on all time greats. Cousy definitely has a case in terms of what he did for the game and what he won compared to Paul, but just in terms of raw skill and 1v1, definitely not. Yet, a lot of you guys aren't willing to stay fully committed on this mentality when looking at several newer players, see Westbrook.

Cousy probably would have been few time FMVP if they had award back then, like 57 (averaged 21/9 in the finals, Heinsohn was 24/13), between Heinsohn and Cousy in 59 (Heinsohn averaged 24/9 and Cousy 17/13), 61 between Russell and Cousy (Russell 18/29, Cousy 20/5/11). He averaged pretty much 10 assists in finals for his career. He always elevated his game for playoffs and had elite vision and uncanny way of passing the basketball. He did showtime passes 30 years before showtime.

However here is quick comparison of their careers:


Cousy:
1x MVP
6x champion (as said could easily be few times FMVP)
13x all-star
10x all-first team
2x all 2nd team
8x nba assists leader (probably few time steals leader)

17k career points (18.4 ppg)
7k career assists (7.5 apg)



Paul:
0x MVP (only really 1 season where he was in real talks)
0x champion
12x all-star
4x first team
5x 2nd team
1x 3rd team
(+9x defensive teams)
5x assist leader
6x steals leader

21k points (18.1 ppg)
11k assists (9.5 apg)


So you see they aren't actually that far off, apart of Cousy having far better team and individual accolade resume. Sure he benefitted from smaller league back then but there is no doubt he was premier PG of his era just like Paul is.

If we just look at same age that Cousy played Paul is behind him on points by 500 and 1.4k assists ahead of him. So not like Paul has had that greater career during those years. He just has had ability to play longer for obvious league/sports changes that we have seen in decades after Cousy's era.


I think Paul has far harder to compete with PGs of his era, let alone past greats. If Lillard and Westbrook win championships as significant contributing members of their teams, it's really hard for Paul to be ranked ahead of them for example, especially Westbrook should just shoot past Paul without any doubt. I think we have been far too forgiving on Paul historically. He is not dividing player (apart of his flopping) so he has gotten truck loads of benefit of doubt, yet he has historically great playoff blunders.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Depends how you look at the ranking on all time greats. Cousy definitely has a case in terms of what he did for the game and what he won compared to Paul, but just in terms of raw skill and 1v1, definitely not.

to build on this, I really don't understand this idea of taking a player from like 60 years go and just teleport him in the current era as a way to determine anything.
what I think that doesn't appreciated enough is that in those pioneeristic times very different skills were needed to succeed and it's not so obvious current players had them all.
guys like Cousy didn't have access to the same training, nutrition and healthcare but also the to the same coaching, skill development and luxury of watching basketball on TV played at the highest level and someone to model their game after. Players today grew up watching guys born in 90s, who watched guys born in the 70s, who watched guys born in the 50s who maybe watched Cousy and his peers!
when Cousy grew up the jump shot was just in an experimental phase, top players now can use shooting coaches dedicated to them.
to make it in the 50s you had to be able to be someone who could figure out instinctively things yourself, you needed to be an innovator but, as for all innovators, some of your innovations will not look so modern decades later.

[BK_2020]

This is pretty good.

He's not wrong. The Celtics did have the best firemen and plumbers; that's why they won all those rings back then.

[dhsilv2]

People are always like, "Man, we're so advanced compared to the past," but you almost never hear, "Man, we're so primitive compared to the future." People act like the future doesn't even exist.

PS And the rare times that people do acknowledge the future, it's usually a future they've already mapped out and predicted in the present, just to show how "advanced" they are.

Sigh. Who am I kidding. I'm no better than anyone else.

I'm 100% sure what I'm doing today will look insanely dated in 10 years, forget 40 or 50 years! Hell, the newest phones looked dated the day they came out! If humanity is around in 100 years and they don't laugh at how absurdly antiquated we were today, we failed, they failed, and humanity has failed.