Underwhelming series per 10 player ever

[70sFan]

How many underwhelming series do all of your top 10 players ever have? By underwhelming, I mean that he underperformed within the context to the degree that you can hold it against him.

Feel free to pick your own top 10.

[70sFan]

My choices:

Kareem: 1973 vs Warriors, 1978 vs Sonics, 1981 vs Rockets

LeBron: 2007 vs Spurs, 2010 vs Celtics, 2011 vs Mavs

Russell: 1967 vs Sixers

Jordan: 1988 vs Pistons, maybe 1995 vs Magic

Duncan: 2004 vs Lakers, 2008 vs Lakers

Wilt: 1961 vs Nats, 1966 vs Celtics, 1968 vs Celtics, 1969 vs Celtics

Hakeem: 1985 vs Jazz, 1990 vs Lakers, 1996 vs Sonics

Shaq: 1994 vs Pacers, 1997 vs Jazz, 1999 vs Spurs, 2005 vs Pistons

Magic: 1981 vs Rockets, 1983 vs Sixers

[Owly]

How many underwhelming series do all of your top 10 players ever have? By underwhelming, I mean that he underperformed within the context to the degree that you can hold it against him.

Feel free to pick your own top 10.

Personal answer, probably none.

I don't really understand the framing of "holding a series against" a player. They play as well as they do, you try to assess/measure this and you account for that by whatever means. Holding it against them - to me - sounds like by definition it's something other than just assessing how they did which you'd always do and sounds more emotional ... which is fine as a fan or indeed I suppose as an anti-fan, but is not really a part of analysis.

All would, I suppose, have had series above and below their norms (at very least above or below their playoff average).

[falcolombardi]

My choices:

Kareem: 1973 vs Warriors, 1978 vs Sonics, 1981 vs Rockets

LeBron: 2007 vs Spurs, 2010 vs Celtics, 2011 vs Mavs

Russell: 1967 vs Sixers

Jordan: 1988 vs Pistons, maybe 1995 vs Magic

Duncan: 2004 vs Lakers, 2008 vs Lakers

Wilt: 1961 vs Nats, 1966 vs Celtics, 1968 vs Celtics, 1969 vs Celtics

Hakeem: 1985 vs Jazz, 1990 vs Lakers, 1996 vs Sonics

Shaq: 1994 vs Pacers, 1997 vs Jazz, 1999 vs Spurs, 2005 vs Pistons

Magic: 1981 vs Rockets, 1983 vs Sixers

i dont think 2010 lebron vs celtics was that bad, in a vacuum is very similar to somethingh like 96 jordan vs sonics which won a fmvp (down to the 3 great first games then 3 weak ones split)

2010 lebron: 27/9/7 with 2 steals and 1 block
15%tov, 56%ts the efficiency is just +2%~ but against s great defense, turnovers however are high

1996 jordan 27/5/4 with 2 steals and 0.2 blocks
10%tov 54% ts, the efficiency is 0%~ (2% gap with lebron) but the turnovers are a lot better

[Jaivl]

Thank god Bird is not on my top 10.

2004 Duncan Lakers is one that comes to mind. 2010 Garnett Lakers is a big one too, albeit post-prime.

[70sFan]

Thank god Bird is not on my top 10.

2004 Duncan Lakers is one that comes to mind. 2010 Garnett Lakers is a big one too, albeit post-prime.

Yeah, Bird has a lot of questionable moments: 1980 vs Philly, 1982 vs Philly, 1983 vs Bucks, 1985 vs Lakers, 1988 vs Pistons...

[70sFan]

My choices:

Kareem: 1973 vs Warriors, 1978 vs Sonics, 1981 vs Rockets

LeBron: 2007 vs Spurs, 2010 vs Celtics, 2011 vs Mavs

Russell: 1967 vs Sixers

Jordan: 1988 vs Pistons, maybe 1995 vs Magic

Duncan: 2004 vs Lakers, 2008 vs Lakers

Wilt: 1961 vs Nats, 1966 vs Celtics, 1968 vs Celtics, 1969 vs Celtics

Hakeem: 1985 vs Jazz, 1990 vs Lakers, 1996 vs Sonics

Shaq: 1994 vs Pacers, 1997 vs Jazz, 1999 vs Spurs, 2005 vs Pistons

Magic: 1981 vs Rockets, 1983 vs Sixers

i dont think 2010 lebron vs celtics was that bad, in a vacuum is very similar to somethingh like 96 jordan vs sonics which won a fmvp (down to the 3 great first games then 3 weak ones split)

2010 lebron: 27/9/7 with 2 steals and 1 block
15%tov, 56%ts the efficiency is just +2%~ but against s great defense, turnovers however are high

1996 jordan 27/5/4 with 2 steals and 0.2 blocks
10%tov 54% ts, the efficiency is 0%~ (2% gap with lebron) but the turnovers are a lot better

I wouldn't say these two series are similar. James played well in the first three games and Cavs had a lead, but then he quit and put up horrible performance:

James in first 3 games: 32.3/7.3/6.0 with 2.7 tov on 63.4 TS%
James in last 3 games: 21.3/11.3/8.3 with 6.3 tov on 46.6 TS%

This is a horrible performance within the context. Series averages don't always say the whole story.

[70sFan]

How many underwhelming series do all of your top 10 players ever have? By underwhelming, I mean that he underperformed within the context to the degree that you can hold it against him.

Feel free to pick your own top 10.

Personal answer, probably none.

I don't really understand the framing of "holding a series against" a player. They play as well as they do, you try to assess/measure this and you account for that by whatever means. Holding it against them - to me - sounds like by definition it's something other than just assessing how they did which you'd always do and sounds more emotional ... which is fine as a fan or indeed I suppose as an anti-fan, but is not really a part of analysis.

All would, I suppose, have had series above and below their norms (at very least above or below their playoff average).

Fair enough, you can say then about series in which a star underperformed within the context of the series (opponent, teammates, etc).

[falcolombardi]

My choices:

Kareem: 1973 vs Warriors, 1978 vs Sonics, 1981 vs Rockets

LeBron: 2007 vs Spurs, 2010 vs Celtics, 2011 vs Mavs

Russell: 1967 vs Sixers

Jordan: 1988 vs Pistons, maybe 1995 vs Magic

Duncan: 2004 vs Lakers, 2008 vs Lakers

Wilt: 1961 vs Nats, 1966 vs Celtics, 1968 vs Celtics, 1969 vs Celtics

Hakeem: 1985 vs Jazz, 1990 vs Lakers, 1996 vs Sonics

Shaq: 1994 vs Pacers, 1997 vs Jazz, 1999 vs Spurs, 2005 vs Pistons

Magic: 1981 vs Rockets, 1983 vs Sixers

i dont think 2010 lebron vs celtics was that bad, in a vacuum is very similar to somethingh like 96 jordan vs sonics which won a fmvp (down to the 3 great first games then 3 weak ones split)

2010 lebron: 27/9/7 with 2 steals and 1 block
15%tov, 56%ts the efficiency is just +2%~ but against s great defense, turnovers however are high

1996 jordan 27/5/4 with 2 steals and 0.2 blocks
10%tov 54% ts, the efficiency is 0%~ (2% gap with lebron) but the turnovers are a lot better

I wouldn't say these two series are similar. James played well in the first three games and Cavs had a lead, but then he quit and put up horrible performance:

James in first 3 games: 32.3/7.3/6.0 with 2.7 tov on 63.4 TS%
James in last 3 games: 21.3/11.3/8.3 with 6.3 tov on 46.6 TS%

This is a horrible performance within the context. Series averages don't always say the whole story.

there are tons of series where a player has great and bad games and the sverage ends up being good overall, the 96 finals jordan performance i mentioned being a example (also 3 great first fames and 3 weak last games)

2010 lebron was not great overall because he striggled fot half the series, but the first 3 amazing games still count

[No-more-rings]

Why are people picking Duncan's 04 vs Lakers over 05 vs Pistons? Duncan had a 47 ts% in that series.

[70sFan]

Why are people picking Duncan's 04 vs Lakers over 05 vs Pistons? Duncan had a 47 ts% in that series.

Probably because Spurs won the series. That said, I don't think Duncan played badly in 2005 finals. He struggled scoring-wise, but Pistons defense was galaxies ahead of 2004 Lakers.

[No-more-rings]

Why are people picking Duncan's 04 vs Lakers over 05 vs Pistons? Duncan had a 47 ts% in that series.

Probably because Spurs won the series. That said, I don't think Duncan played badly in 2005 finals. He struggled scoring-wise, but Pistons defense was galaxies ahead of 2004 Lakers.

The Lakers were the better team, the Pistons were not. On paper the series should've never went to 7, and the Pistons ORTG was basically identical to their regular season's, so it's not like Duncan was shutting down their offense. The Spurs even got outscored overall in the series. Definitely a poor series by Duncan's standards.

[70sFan]

Why are people picking Duncan's 04 vs Lakers over 05 vs Pistons? Duncan had a 47 ts% in that series.

Probably because Spurs won the series. That said, I don't think Duncan played badly in 2005 finals. He struggled scoring-wise, but Pistons defense was galaxies ahead of 2004 Lakers.

The Lakers were the better team, the Pistons were not. On paper the series should've never went to 7, and the Pistons ORTG was basically identical to their regular season's, so it's not like Duncan was shutting down their offense. The Spurs even got outscored overall in the series. Definitely a poor series by Duncan's standards.

Pistons beat Spurs in 2004 and I don't think they were much worse the next season.

[Texas Chuck]

Dirk has 3:

2005 1st round versus the Rockets. This gets looked over a bit because Dallas still managed to advance, but he struggled against Ryan Germanator Bowen and TMac in that series.

2007 1st round -- nothing needs to be said here, everybody knows.

2014 1st round versus Spurs. Spurs go on to just obliterate the next 3 teams with a ridiculous margin of victory, but Dallas upsets them as a 8th seed if Dirk plays up to his standards. And yes I know he was old at this point, but he was still the Mavs best player and struggled in that series.

[No-more-rings]

Probably because Spurs won the series. That said, I don't think Duncan played badly in 2005 finals. He struggled scoring-wise, but Pistons defense was galaxies ahead of 2004 Lakers.

The Lakers were the better team, the Pistons were not. On paper the series should've never went to 7, and the Pistons ORTG was basically identical to their regular season's, so it's not like Duncan was shutting down their offense. The Spurs even got outscored overall in the series. Definitely a poor series by Duncan's standards.

Pistons beat Spurs in 2004 and I don't think they were much worse the next season.

Idk, but the 2005 Spurs were definitely a decent upgrade over 2004 Spurs especially with the way Manu was playing.

[Homer38]

Why are people picking Duncan's 04 vs Lakers over 05 vs Pistons? Duncan had a 47 ts% in that series.

Probably because Spurs won the series. That said, I don't think Duncan played badly in 2005 finals. He struggled scoring-wise, but Pistons defense was galaxies ahead of 2004 Lakers.

The Lakers were the better team, the Pistons were not. On paper the series should've never went to 7, and the Pistons ORTG was basically identical to their regular season's, so it's not like Duncan was shutting down their offense. The Spurs even got outscored overall in the series. Definitely a poor series by Duncan's standards.

The pistons had a much better defensive team that the lakers

[Homer38]

Jordan vs sonics deserve to be in this list,he was not good in the last 3 games.The worst series for lebron between 2012 to 2020 was vs bulls in 2015

[No-more-rings]

Probably because Spurs won the series. That said, I don't think Duncan played badly in 2005 finals. He struggled scoring-wise, but Pistons defense was galaxies ahead of 2004 Lakers.

The Lakers were the better team, the Pistons were not. On paper the series should've never went to 7, and the Pistons ORTG was basically identical to their regular season's, so it's not like Duncan was shutting down their offense. The Spurs even got outscored overall in the series. Definitely a poor series by Duncan's standards.

The pistons had a much better defensive team that the lakers

Fair but it doesn’t change my point really.

[falcolombardi]

Jordan vs sonics deserve to be in this list,he was not good in the last 3 games.The worst series for lebron between 2012 to 2020 was vs bulls in 2015

you could make a case for all 2015 run except the finals

that was a weird year for bron