Tatum VS Luka

[themoneyteam2]

Why do you do this after every single game?

[ConstableChaos]

if celtics call mavs to trade JT for LD mavs hang up immediately

Mavs call celtics - Celtics have a meeting first then likely hang up

[Patsfan1081]

I voted Tatum partly as a homer because honestly Luka is probably a little better right now, but mostly because I see Tatum as having much more untapped ability. I don’t think Luka will get that much better due to conditioning, defensive limitations and because he is already so close to his ceiling and understanding of the game (BBIQ). All young players do get better so Luka will too but I don’t see his game having a leap to another level. Tatum on the other hand is still scratching at his potential. In 2 years when he is maxes out in size and strength and BBIQ he could become the best player in NBA.

I don't think you are right on this one. "I don't think Luka will will get much better due to conditionig", while you say that Tatum, who is phzsically already a beast, will "max out in size and strength". I think you are contradicting yourself. Luka CAN get better, because he is in full control of his conditioning. In the meanwhile, BBIQ is something that's much harder to work on, so Tatum is less likely to improve in this aspect, compared to how much Luka can improve his body...

I dont know, how many guys do you see overhauling their conditioning going into their second contract? Its usually guys coming into the league their first few years like Tatum, Giannis, J O’Neal…..who where considered on the skinny size and finally have a prof staff behind them. As for BBIQ, I think for wings its something that they def start developing at the start of their second contract when other aspects are already developed. You saw it with a lot of guys, Butler, George Leonard, ect….Most don’t come into the league already established at making others better. Its when they need to make that next step that they are willing to work on other aspects to become well rounded stars. I think there are much more examples of those types then there are guys overhauling their conditioning years in.

[Patsfan1081]

I just fail to see any argument to be made that Tatum is better. I guess I could see arguments for Tatum fitting better with another #1 option caliber player since his defense is better and he can probably be a better off ball player. That's as far as I can go.

I for one totally admit you take Luka in a heartbeat, I was just arguing against the people that said there was a size-able gap or that Tatum was overrated…

[rate_]

It's Luka by a comfortable margin

2022 PLAYOFFS
Luka - 11 G | 31/10/6/2 | +1.2 rTS | 27.9 PER | .163 WS/48 | 9.8 BPM
Tatum - 13 G | 28/6/6/2 | +2.3 rTS | 20.2 PER | .140 WS/48 | 5.5 BPM

[mabundo_nagumbe]

I voted Tatum partly as a homer because honestly Luka is probably a little better right now, but mostly because I see Tatum as having much more untapped ability. I don’t think Luka will get that much better due to conditioning, defensive limitations and because he is already so close to his ceiling and understanding of the game (BBIQ). All young players do get better so Luka will too but I don’t see his game having a leap to another level. Tatum on the other hand is still scratching at his potential. In 2 years when he is maxes out in size and strength and BBIQ he could become the best player in NBA.

I don't think you are right on this one. "I don't think Luka will will get much better due to conditionig", while you say that Tatum, who is phzsically already a beast, will "max out in size and strength". I think you are contradicting yourself. Luka CAN get better, because he is in full control of his conditioning. In the meanwhile, BBIQ is something that's much harder to work on, so Tatum is less likely to improve in this aspect, compared to how much Luka can improve his body...

I dont know, how many guys do you see overhauling their conditioning going into their second contract? Its usually guys coming into the league their first few years like Tatum, Giannis, J O’Neal…..who where considered on the skinny size and finally have a prof staff behind them. As for BBIQ, I think for wings its something that they def start developing at the start of their second contract when other aspects are already developed. You saw it with a lot of guys, Butler, George Leonard, ect….Most don’t come into the league already established at making others better. Its when they need to make that next step that they are willing to work on other aspects to become well rounded stars. I think there are much more examples of those types then there are guys overhauling their conditioning years in.

Jokic is one example. He started to take care of his body last year, what happened? He got mvp. And you are right, it's rare, but its very obvious that there is a lot Luka can improve in that aspect. Probably more than a guy can improve his bbiq after he is 25 and has already played baskeball for 15 years, since he was a kid. I don't know about usa, but here in former Yugoslavia basketball schools, they teach you plays since the getgo

[Floody100]

It's Luka by a comfortable margin

2022 PLAYOFFS
Luka - 11 G | 31/10/6/2 | +1.2 rTS | 27.9 PER | .163 WS/48 | 9.8 BPM
Tatum - 13 G | 28/6/6/2 | +2.3 rTS | 20.2 PER | .140 WS/48 | 5.5 BPM

I had no idea we were only using offence to determine this debate ?

[rapstarter]

It's Luka by a comfortable margin

2022 PLAYOFFS
Luka - 11 G | 31/10/6/2 | +1.2 rTS | 27.9 PER | .163 WS/48 | 9.8 BPM
Tatum - 13 G | 28/6/6/2 | +2.3 rTS | 20.2 PER | .140 WS/48 | 5.5 BPM

I had no idea we were only using offence to determine this debate ?

Most of those are not even offense-only stats..

[soxfan2003]

It's Luka by a comfortable margin

2022 PLAYOFFS
Luka - 11 G | 31/10/6/2 | +1.2 rTS | 27.9 PER | .163 WS/48 | 9.8 BPM
Tatum - 13 G | 28/6/6/2 | +2.3 rTS | 20.2 PER | .140 WS/48 | 5.5 BPM

I had no idea we were only using offence to determine this debate ?

Most of those are not even offense-only stats..

True but even defensive stats like blocks and rebounds often do a poor job capturing a players value on defense. Tatum is a very good perimeter defender. Not many players can block KD and Tatum did it several times in the playoff series vs the Nets.

[LewisnotMiller]

Which one surprises you more?

Dirk has career 10 more 3pters made in playoffs than Tatum;
Luka has made more 3pters in playoffs than Bird.

The Dirk stat.

Bird didn't shoot many threes at all by modern standards for the vast majority of his career.

[3toheadmelo]

Read on Twitter

[DroseReturnChi]

I just fail to see any argument to be made that Tatum is better. I guess I could see arguments for Tatum fitting better with another #1 option caliber player since his defense is better and he can probably be a better off ball player. That's as far as I can go.

I for one totally admit you take Luka in a heartbeat, I was just arguing against the people that said there was a size-able gap or that Tatum was overrated…

ofc theres a huge wall between them. tatum got lucky bc he is on a stacked team thats the difference. but even this game tatum cant score over 30 while luka had a terrible night scoring well over 40.

[GeorgeGervin]

I just fail to see any argument to be made that Tatum is better. I guess I could see arguments for Tatum fitting better with another #1 option caliber player since his defense is better and he can probably be a better off ball player. That's as far as I can go.

I for one totally admit you take Luka in a heartbeat, I was just arguing against the people that said there was a size-able gap or that Tatum was overrated…

ofc theres a huge wall between them. tatum got lucky bc he is on a stacked team thats the difference. but even this game tatum cant score over 30 while luka had a terrible night scoring well over 40.

Luka had a terrible night ??

[tsherkin]

luka had a terrible night scoring well over 40.

What is this supposed to mean?

[hugepatsfan]

Tatum is the better shooter behind the arc and a free throw shooter. And defense is half the game...

I honestly give the overall edge with how I view the game (championship lens) to Tatum right now and despite being a huge Celtics fan, I call them like I see them.

For example, when the vast majority of Celtics fans still thought Rondo was a top 10 PG worth building around, I said he wasn't since I saw his decline and some other young players like John Wall who were better. When a bunch of Celtics fans still liked IT, I said he should be released if the Celtics couldn't trade him.

I agree that Tatum is better at those individual skills. But as a whole, I think Luka is just pretty easily better on offense. Like not even close. The droughts that Tatum goes through don't happen with Luka. And defense might be half the game but it's not equally important in ranking players. You can hide your stars on defense if you need to.

As a Celtic fan Im not sure how you could have watched IT and Kemba and make this declaration. You might be able to early on but better teams will def exploit them in switches.

Let me clarify... your star can be hidden TO A POINT. Tatum is a legitimate stud on defense and the type of guy, as we saw, you can CHOOSE to make your primary defender on someone like Kevin Durant. Luka is not that guy but he's not IT or Kemba either lol. He doesn't really hurt you on defense. Obviously it's better to have someone like Tatum who elevates your defense vs someone like Luka who just gets you buy, but improvement on that end isn't worth nearly as much as added offensive skill. Defense is just something you can more easily find from your role players. The ability to be the primary option who takes on the responsibility to generate good shots for himself and others consistently is the singular most premium skill set in the sport. So you have to value it higher in rankings.

For instance, I think Trae Young is a better offensive player than Tatum (and a lot of other guys). But hell no would I ever rank him higher as a player because he truly is that IT/Kemba type of defender you reference. He's not someone you can get by with. He significantly impacts you negatively on that end. Luka's not that bad though.

[playa-hater]

Luka literally may be the worst-laziest defender in the league.. that is Not a stretch by any means. Stop looking at box-score stats.. watch the games. Luka is horrifically bad straight up man or in help..

With the ball in his hands Luka is great. everything else he is near all time lazy-bad.

Tatum is such an easy choice for me. But then again I like my players to play both sides of the ball. Tatum plays both sides (offensive/defensive) at a ridiculous level.

[Luke Skyowner]

Luka literally may be the worst-laziest defender in the league.. that is Not a stretch by any means. Stop looking at box-score stats.. watch the games. Luka is horrifically bad straight up man or in help..

With the ball in his hands Luka is great. everything else he is near all time lazy-bad.

Tatum such an easy choice for me. But then again I like my players to play both side of the ball. Tatum plays both sides (offensive/defensive) at a ridiculous level.

Watch all of their games. He game from tough long series and is now against fresh GSW. Great timing with a hot take i give you that
take a look at the poll bud lol

[tsherkin]

Watch all of their games. He game from tough long series and is now against fresh GSW. Great timing with a hot take i give you that
take a look at the poll bud lol

I mean, video evidence of Luka on D is not a flattering thing, and it isn't about how much energy he has from series to series. I think it isn't that surprising, because he isn't an ATG athlete and because ridiculously-high usage does not usually correlate well with consistent defensive effort. Kobe's D in 06 didn't look stunning either, and he was more athletic than Doncic then. It's understandable to a point. There are plays, though, where Doncic is just so lazy and disengaged that you can understand why people grief him about his defense.

[Durotan]

Last 4 games (BOS vs DAL)..
Luka : 31,5 ppg, 56% FG, 56,4% 3Pt, 80% FT.. 4 wins , 2 game winning shots...

No wonder the hate from the green logo in this thread..

[playa-hater]

Luka literally may be the worst-laziest defender in the league.. that is Not a stretch by any means. Stop looking at box-score stats.. watch the games. Luka is horrifically bad straight up man or in help..

With the ball in his hands Luka is great. everything else he is near all time lazy-bad.

Tatum such an easy choice for me. But then again I like my players to play both side of the ball. Tatum plays both sides (offensive/defensive) at a ridiculous level.

Watch all of their games. He game from tough long series and is now against fresh GSW. Great timing with a hot take i give you that
take a look at the poll bud lol

Now that is a hot take.. looking at a poll in which most fans are just box-score casual fans..