Prime : Dr . J or Oscar?

[countryboy667]

Ther Doctor was definitely flashier, but Oscar's impeccable fundamentals and all-round game IMO make him better. Oscar is grossly underappreciated today because he doesn't do the frivolous highlight reel things that today's supermen (sarcasm intended) seem to think are an absolutely essential part of the game. Oscar, while he would admit what wonderful athletes many of today's players are, IMO would just laugh and shake his head at such antics...

[tsherkin]

Ther Doctor was definitely flashier, but Oscar's impeccable fundamentals and all-round game IMO make him better. Oscar is grossly underappreciated today because he doesn't do the frivolous highlight reel things that today's supermen (sarcasm intended) seem to think are an absolutely essential part of the game. Oscar, while he would admit what wonderful athletes many of today's players are, IMO would just laugh and shake his head at such antics...

I think lots of people appreciate Oscar. I think there's been some kickback on some of the particulars because we have a better grasp on stuff like pace and league-specific environment as far as some of his specific numbers (mostly rebounding), but appreciation for his value as an offensive player is definitely there. We can see his impact on leading league-best offenses, the value of his scoring, how his major contemporary in that regard was Jerry West, how he was something of a prototype PnR handler but also with a post game, etc, etc.

Oscar wasn't a high-flier, sure, but I think there's healthy respect for what he could do floating around today from most.

[afox]

Oscar for me. Far better offensive player and rebounder. Doctor J was exciting and did a lot of things, great player, but Oscar was Oscar.

“Far better offensively?”

Kinda seems like a stretch doesn’t it?

I think I have a prob with the rebounding...lol...I always have them ranked somewhere close to each other...To have Erving ranked that high, I'm including his ABA days...A league he just dominated and pretty much caused the merge cuz the NBA wanted HIM! His stats in the ABA were otherwordly...Specifically the rebounding for a 6'7 forward!

[DQuinn1575]

I feel some are underestimating the defensive gap imo.

Neither are lockdown defensive stoppers but Erving definitely has an edge in this area

I'm not sure there is a big defensive gap.
All contemporary accounts would always say Oscar was good on defense. I watched virtually no Oscar in his prime, so don't really know.
Doc was considered a good defender, but never made an All-Defensive team.

[SNPA]

Oscar.

If he did flashy dunks too this wouldn’t be a question.

[ronnymac2]

Greatest individual accomplishment:
Oscar: MVP as voted by the players in 1964 over prime Russell and Wilt
Erving: Two of the Greatest back-to-back Finals performances ever in 1976 and 1977, including the greatest performance in ABA history against four all-stars (including defensive wizard Bobby Jones), a team that once absorbed into the NBA was a legit contender (Denver)

Greatest team accomplishment:
Oscar: Championship with Alcindor
Erving: Championship with Moses

Revolutionary in that:
Oscar: First dynamic lead guard that could score efficiently on high volume and playmake, lead the era's best offenses
Erving: The NBA literally merged with the ABA to get Erving. Man was so well-respected and such a draw that hundreds of people got NBA jobs because of him. This had stylistic impacts on the NBA as well.

I don't know. Erving's halfcourt scoring in the NBA never impressed me, but he was an underrated passer/playmaker. I think he gets very underrated defensively. Look at those Philly teams throughout his prime and look at their defensive ratings and Erving's MPG, rim-protection, and defensive rebounding. Wasn't a great man defender, but his help d was big-time.

I think prime vs. prime, you can make a case for Dr. J based on being able to build a balanced two-way team around him. I also think with his unselfish attitude, defensive edge, and lack of ball-dominance, I get a chance to surround him with very talented players who can flourish and be maximized around him.

[70sFan]

I feel some are underestimating the defensive gap imo.

Neither are lockdown defensive stoppers but Erving definitely has an edge in this area

I'm not sure there is a big defensive gap.
All contemporary accounts would always say Oscar was good on defense. I watched virtually no Oscar in his prime, so don't really know.
Doc was considered a good defender, but never made an All-Defensive team.

I think Julius is clearly better defender to be honest. Oscar was a tough man defender and good rebounder, but he wasn't very disruptive as a help defender. Julius in his best defensive seasons was excellent on that end (in particular in the 1982 and 1983), he basically gave you additional rim protection from SF position.

[Owly]

I feel some are underestimating the defensive gap imo.

Neither are lockdown defensive stoppers but Erving definitely has an edge in this area

I'm not sure there is a big defensive gap.
All contemporary accounts would always say Oscar was good on defense. I watched virtually no Oscar in his prime, so don't really know.
Doc was considered a good defender, but never made an All-Defensive team.

Doc was a productive defender. Reports on quality are mixed with some feeling he was a gambler (to negative effect). After very quickly eyeballing his defensive on-off numbers the numbers are mostly around average with '81 being a pretty ugly outlier bad year (Def on: 101.2, def off: 95.0 net: 6.2). Obviously this is raw +/-, on-off stuff, so whether one played with Cheeks, B Jones probably important.

I'd be cautious on any defensive end conclusions for players from these times (even more so if their notoriety and info is more from the other end). Fwiw, impact stuff tends to be among the better tools for including defense and the impact data (WoWY, Sixers +/-) that I've seen tilts strongly pro Robertson for net impact.