Will we ever know the truth about Fultz?

[pipfan]

I remember he used to just glide out there on the floor, and I saw potential. Still very young-plenty of time for a comeback. Could be HUGE for the Magic if he becomes starter-quality

[Scalabrine]

He was never that good. He was a bit of chubster in college, not that fast, not very good vision and so on. However it's absolutely true that issue he had affected his shot. But still fact remains he was not worth of first pick, even without stuff he had he would have been ultimately a first pick bust. Looking back he probably had talent to be in top 10 but definitely not first pick worthy. I don't even get why he was picked over other guys, I guess league was hell bent to find new Stephen Curry so they saw a guy who could shoot a bit in college (most can with poor defenses of kids playing) and a bit better athlete. Fultz ultimately put up numbers on a bad team.

To me it was always clear guy like Tatum was far better prospect. Big, pretty good shooter and with ball handling ability (just a bit slow for his size). Just what you want from today's wing.

This is a bit of revisionist history.

He was the consensus number 1 pick from the start of the season till the draft. Maybe you can say that you thought Tatum was gonna be better, but every mock, every article, every podcast that I saw out there had Fultz as a can't miss number 1 prospect, and his shooting was a big reason for that.

Watch on YouTube

He was a really confident player, his shooting was his best attribute but he was athletic, could finish in the paint, and played super calm and at a different pace then the rest of the guys on the court.

He went from shooting 42% in college on 5 attempts per game to never shooting more than 2 per game and 26% in the Pros. To write him off without even taking the fact that he's played in 131 games over 5 seasons into accountis just wrong.

[DeBrick]

We just learned that Jermaine O'neal left Miami because he was more interested in cookies than a championship. With all the podcasts and time we have, the whole story will come out sooner or later.

we did? Link? Or elaborate please

[dirkdiggler4177]

We just learned that Jermaine O'neal left Miami because he was more interested in cookies than a championship. With all the podcasts and time we have, the whole story will come out sooner or later.

we did? Link? Or elaborate please

Read on Twitter

[Statlanta]

did you bother reading any other post?

No but I didn't need to because I am a Magic fan. I think he would be ever better after his condition if he was in a different situation.

[rzzzzz]

Just google Thoracic Outlet Syndrome. Which was his diagnosis. Check out most common causes of TOS. And then look back to his interviews before the draft where he talked about summersaulting his BMX off a ramp at home.

[KyletheDingbat]

I never fully got the TOS diagnosis either. His shot was consistently fine in circumstances that required muscle memory. It was during FT's and set shots he had a problem. He could dunk or block a shot no problem, we never saw any evidence of struggle in those cases. He could launch a ball the length of the court. It was only in moments he had to think that he had a problem. Is there an element of TOS that is only engaged when the person has to think?

[JayMKE]

Why would they lie about the diagnosis? The skepticism doesn't make sense, you guys don't think that would have been sniffed out and had Fultz thrown under the bus? It's more than just his reputation.

[ConSarnit]

He did not 100% have anything anymore than Ben Simmons “required” back surgery.

Fultz had college 3 range but zero at nba 3. When he tried to expand his range it broke his brain.

Happens to many shooters. I am Steph Curry at 16 feet and I am Ben Simmons/Chuck Hayes at 20 feet.

He was shooting fine from 3 in the summer league (before his mysterious injury).

I don’t believe the TOS diagnosis. It wasn’t from PHI doctors and it was from something like the 10th doctor he saw privately. It’s a convenient injury that’s difficult to diagnose and difficult to fix. Perfect for someone who still needed a team to buy in that his shot would come around. If it was a motorbike accident then he would have been at risk of voiding his contract. If it’s the yips then it’s far more difficult to fix (and therefor less likely a team would be big money on him).

I’d guess 100% the yips. Just watch his play. Shots off the dribble: look fine. Wide open shots like 3’s or free throws: look terrible and hitchy, like exactly what happens with the yips when you have more time to think about your shot/throw/swing. TOS doesn’t explain why some of his shots look fine and some look terrible. If it were TOS all of his shots would look bad. TOS is a diagnosis his team sought out as a scapegoat injury.

Watch his pre draft workouts. He could not shoot nba threes.

We have LITERAL VIDEO EVIDENCE of him shooting NBA 3’s in summer league looking FINE. Do you have a brain?

[ConSarnit]

I have a friend with Thoracic Outlet Syndrome and asked him about it after hearing about the Fultz diagnosis (he's not a basketball fan or an athlete but when I told him people didn't believe Fultz he found it annoying!). He showed me the range of motion he had in his arms. He could only raise his arms about 45 degrees upwards. He could get them all the way up but not fluidly and not without pain. He also said his hands go numb a lot.

I'm sure Fultz has received the best treatment money can buy to mitigate the symptoms as best as possible. But looking at my friend, there's no way he could take a normal jump shot if he wanted to. It makes perfect sense with how Fultz shot has changed as well, way lower release, flinging it out in front of him.

It is annoying that people still doubt him or chalk this up to some kind of mental block. None of us would be balling with TOS.

Why doesn’t it affect his shooting off the dribble? So TOS completely breaks his set shot but he’s fine after 1 dribble? How does that make sense? It’s just sone coincidence that his shot develops a huge hitch (yips) the more time he has to think about it?

I’m all ears if someone can explain why TOS affects his ft’s yet does almost nothing to his off the dribble mid-range shooting form.

[cupcakesnake]

I have a friend with Thoracic Outlet Syndrome and asked him about it after hearing about the Fultz diagnosis (he's not a basketball fan or an athlete but when I told him people didn't believe Fultz he found it annoying!). He showed me the range of motion he had in his arms. He could only raise his arms about 45 degrees upwards. He could get them all the way up but not fluidly and not without pain. He also said his hands go numb a lot.

I'm sure Fultz has received the best treatment money can buy to mitigate the symptoms as best as possible. But looking at my friend, there's no way he could take a normal jump shot if he wanted to. It makes perfect sense with how Fultz shot has changed as well, way lower release, flinging it out in front of him.

It is annoying that people still doubt him or chalk this up to some kind of mental block. None of us would be balling with TOS.

Why doesn’t it affect his shooting off the dribble? So TOS completely breaks his set shot but he’s fine after 1 dribble? How does that make sense? It’s just sone coincidence that his shot develops a huge hitch (yips) the more time he has to think about it?

I’m all ears if someone can explain why TOS affects his ft’s yet does almost nothing to his off the dribble mid-range shooting form.

Why do you think it doesn't effect him off the dribble? He looks pretty bad shooting those too. Same weird form: low release that's way out in front of him.

I mean legs can help your shot. Some guys are better shooting off the catch, some guys off the bounce. Maybe Fultz gets better rhythm with it when he gets to jump into it. Either way he's bad at both so I don't really know what you mean.

He's shot the ball well from the line for the past 3 seasons.

[NO-KG-AI]

He was never that good. He was a bit of chubster in college, not that fast, not very good vision and so on. However it's absolutely true that issue he had affected his shot. But still fact remains he was not worth of first pick, even without stuff he had he would have been ultimately a first pick bust. Looking back he probably had talent to be in top 10 but definitely not first pick worthy. I don't even get why he was picked over other guys, I guess league was hell bent to find new Stephen Curry so they saw a guy who could shoot a bit in college (most can with poor defenses of kids playing) and a bit better athlete. Fultz ultimately put up numbers on a bad team.

To me it was always clear guy like Tatum was far better prospect. Big, pretty good shooter and with ball handling ability (just a bit slow for his size). Just what you want from today's wing.

This is a bit of revisionist history.

He was the consensus number 1 pick from the start of the season till the draft. Maybe you can say that you thought Tatum was gonna be better, but every mock, every article, every podcast that I saw out there had Fultz as a can't miss number 1 prospect, and his shooting was a big reason for that.

Watch on YouTube

He was a really confident player, his shooting was his best attribute but he was athletic, could finish in the paint, and played super calm and at a different pace then the rest of the guys on the court.

He went from shooting 42% in college on 5 attempts per game to never shooting more than 2 per game and 26% in the Pros. To write him off without even taking the fact that he's played in 131 games over 5 seasons into accountis just wrong.

I don't remember it that way at all. He wasn't higher than Ball on any major recruiting site, and wasn't above #5 in his own high school class on any of them. He was very far from a preseason lock #1 pick, and there was a lot of dispute leading up to the draft, which was already shallow at the top anyway.

Nobody thought he was a can't miss #1 prospect at any point, but especially not at the beginning of the year, he wasn't even as highly thought of going into the year as a lot of guys that flopped as #1 overall hype jobs. There is a reason that pick was for sale to begin with.

[GeorgeMarcus]

Very frustrating as an Orlando Magic fan (selfishly).

I hope he can overcome whatever happened

Oh you think MAGIC fans are frustrated?

At least you got him for pennies on the dollar, we gave up the pick that would become Tatum + another 1st rounder

Granted, all the hate towards Fultz was completely unwarranted. It's not his fault. Just unfortunate for all affected parties

[GeorgeMarcus]

He was never that good. He was a bit of chubster in college, not that fast, not very good vision and so on. However it's absolutely true that issue he had affected his shot. But still fact remains he was not worth of first pick, even without stuff he had he would have been ultimately a first pick bust. Looking back he probably had talent to be in top 10 but definitely not first pick worthy. I don't even get why he was picked over other guys, I guess league was hell bent to find new Stephen Curry so they saw a guy who could shoot a bit in college (most can with poor defenses of kids playing) and a bit better athlete. Fultz ultimately put up numbers on a bad team.

To me it was always clear guy like Tatum was far better prospect. Big, pretty good shooter and with ball handling ability (just a bit slow for his size). Just what you want from today's wing.

Nah man, it's easy to see how well his game would translate if he had a legitimate 3pt shot. I don't think you've seen enough of him in the NBA. Sadly his ceiling is capped hard by his lack of range, as is true for any guard that can't shoot

[GeorgeMarcus]

He was never that good. He was a bit of chubster in college, not that fast, not very good vision and so on. However it's absolutely true that issue he had affected his shot. But still fact remains he was not worth of first pick, even without stuff he had he would have been ultimately a first pick bust. Looking back he probably had talent to be in top 10 but definitely not first pick worthy. I don't even get why he was picked over other guys, I guess league was hell bent to find new Stephen Curry so they saw a guy who could shoot a bit in college (most can with poor defenses of kids playing) and a bit better athlete. Fultz ultimately put up numbers on a bad team.

To me it was always clear guy like Tatum was far better prospect. Big, pretty good shooter and with ball handling ability (just a bit slow for his size). Just what you want from today's wing.

This is a bit of revisionist history.

He was the consensus number 1 pick from the start of the season till the draft. Maybe you can say that you thought Tatum was gonna be better, but every mock, every article, every podcast that I saw out there had Fultz as a can't miss number 1 prospect, and his shooting was a big reason for that.

Watch on YouTube

He was a really confident player, his shooting was his best attribute but he was athletic, could finish in the paint, and played super calm and at a different pace then the rest of the guys on the court.

He went from shooting 42% in college on 5 attempts per game to never shooting more than 2 per game and 26% in the Pros. To write him off without even taking the fact that he's played in 131 games over 5 seasons into accountis just wrong.

I don't remember it that way at all. He wasn't higher than Ball on any major recruiting site, and wasn't above #5 in his own high school class on any of them. He was very far from a preseason lock #1 pick, and there was a lot of dispute leading up to the draft, which was already shallow at the top anyway.

Nobody thought he was a can't miss #1 prospect at any point, but especially not at the beginning of the year, he wasn't even as highly thought of going into the year as a lot of guys that flopped as #1 overall hype jobs. There is a reason that pick was for sale to begin with.

The reason being that the Celtics witnessed his new shot, or lack thereof. Fultz was definitely the consensus #1, and the first few picks in that draft were essentially considered 'can't miss'.

[SelfishPlayer]

He was always terrible at creating space by himself in the half court.

[gipper08]

He was shooting fine from 3 in the summer league (before his mysterious injury).

I don’t believe the TOS diagnosis. It wasn’t from PHI doctors and it was from something like the 10th doctor he saw privately. It’s a convenient injury that’s difficult to diagnose and difficult to fix. Perfect for someone who still needed a team to buy in that his shot would come around. If it was a motorbike accident then he would have been at risk of voiding his contract. If it’s the yips then it’s far more difficult to fix (and therefor less likely a team would be big money on him).

I’d guess 100% the yips. Just watch his play. Shots off the dribble: look fine. Wide open shots like 3’s or free throws: look terrible and hitchy, like exactly what happens with the yips when you have more time to think about your shot/throw/swing. TOS doesn’t explain why some of his shots look fine and some look terrible. If it were TOS all of his shots would look bad. TOS is a diagnosis his team sought out as a scapegoat injury.

Watch his pre draft workouts. He could not shoot nba threes.

We have LITERAL VIDEO EVIDENCE of him shooting NBA 3’s in summer league looking FINE. Do you have a brain?

Three games where he shoots 37% does not prove your point.
Pre draft we have and saw hundreds of reps of his shot being off.

You just wasted my time.

[KyletheDingbat]

Why would they lie about the diagnosis? The skepticism doesn't make sense, you guys don't think that would have been sniffed out and had Fultz thrown under the bus? It's more than just his reputation.

My thought is because admitting he had the yips would have been embarrassing so it was a PR move. Going from doc to doc til you find a guy who will give a diagnosis that you like. Especially good if the doc doesn't have to put his name on the diagnosis. Might be very cynical of me but it makes sense that they'd do that to protect a sensitive youngster. It'd suck to go through what Fultz was going through. That being said, I'm not saying he for sure had the yips, it just seemed to make the most sense.

[Dan Z]

What's his potential going forward?

[Airgordon00]

What's his potential going forward?

He will be the starting point guard for the Orlando magic next year and will be in the running for MIP. He will be at the top of the league in assists next year as well. He could very well make a couple of all star games before the end of his career. So he is definitely better than most people think.