Will we ever know the truth about Fultz?

[Ryoga Hibiki]

I have a friend with Thoracic Outlet Syndrome and asked him about it after hearing about the Fultz diagnosis (he's not a basketball fan or an athlete but when I told him people didn't believe Fultz he found it annoying!). He showed me the range of motion he had in his arms. He could only raise his arms about 45 degrees upwards. He could get them all the way up but not fluidly and not without pain. He also said his hands go numb a lot.

I'm sure Fultz has received the best treatment money can buy to mitigate the symptoms as best as possible. But looking at my friend, there's no way he could take a normal jump shot if he wanted to. It makes perfect sense with how Fultz shot has changed as well, way lower release, flinging it out in front of him.

It is annoying that people still doubt him or chalk this up to some kind of mental block. None of us would be balling with TOS.

it's really odd seeing so much skepticism about this. when did basketball fans turn into doctors? it's like watching a basketball games entitles some people to diagnose injuries and mental health (and even worse, disagree with actual experts)

even a doctor can't really say anything unless he's a specialist, and even a specialist can's say much without having a chance to examine the patient.
the skepticism comes because it's a very unique and weird story, because it's a condition not easy to diagnose and there's not clarity on how it came out in the first place. I read that the origin could be traumatic, is that because of a bike incident that would have breached his contract?
and I am not saying "he's lying!", just that there's enough controversy around it that I can't comfortably believe any story.

[alevirfe]

I have a friend with Thoracic Outlet Syndrome and asked him about it after hearing about the Fultz diagnosis (he's not a basketball fan or an athlete but when I told him people didn't believe Fultz he found it annoying!). He showed me the range of motion he had in his arms. He could only raise his arms about 45 degrees upwards. He could get them all the way up but not fluidly and not without pain. He also said his hands go numb a lot.

I'm sure Fultz has received the best treatment money can buy to mitigate the symptoms as best as possible. But looking at my friend, there's no way he could take a normal jump shot if he wanted to. It makes perfect sense with how Fultz shot has changed as well, way lower release, flinging it out in front of him.

It is annoying that people still doubt him or chalk this up to some kind of mental block. None of us would be balling with TOS.

it's really odd seeing so much skepticism about this. when did basketball fans turn into doctors? it's like watching a basketball games entitles some people to diagnose injuries and mental health (and even worse, disagree with actual experts)

even a doctor can't really say anything unless he's a specialist, and even a specialist can's say much without having a chance to examine the patient.
the skepticism comes because it's a very unique and weird story, because it's a condition not easy to diagnose and there's not clarity on how it came out in the first place. I read that the origin could be traumatic, is that because of a bike incident that would have breached his contract?
and I am not saying "he's lying!", just that there's enough controversy around it that I can't comfortably believe any story.

but Fultz was already diagnosed... I get what you're saying up until the point his condition was confirmed. it's clear cut now and there's nothing left to debate or speculate about

how he got the injury is irrelevant and a whole other discussion

[Ugly0598]

Who knows. I’m not even sure Fultz knows. I know he’s had TOS nerve issues & shoulder issues which seems like kinda caused him to forget or alter his old form. He’s bounced back to be a serviceable decent NBA player.

[ORL_on_FIRE]

Fultz is a hooper, he’s effective in the areas he knows he’s good at.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

Just send Faultz to the Warriors so they can salvage his career.

[dhsilv2]

I think the way Fultz forgot how to shoot, turning his biggest strength into his major weakness is the weirdest development since I watch the NBA (excluding off the court stuff).
I have read different rumours, from a motorcicle injury to the hips to him deciding to change his mechanics to this misterious disease it was supposedly diagnosed him... will we ever know what the heck happened?

___
Sent from my Nokia 3210 using RealGM mobile app

We already know...what kinda horrible person are you?

I don't believe for a SECOND you're not faking, and on an iphone - a tool that no good man would EVER use!

[Ryoga Hibiki]

it's really odd seeing so much skepticism about this. when did basketball fans turn into doctors? it's like watching a basketball games entitles some people to diagnose injuries and mental health (and even worse, disagree with actual experts)

even a doctor can't really say anything unless he's a specialist, and even a specialist can's say much without having a chance to examine the patient.
the skepticism comes because it's a very unique and weird story, because it's a condition not easy to diagnose and there's not clarity on how it came out in the first place. I read that the origin could be traumatic, is that because of a bike incident that would have breached his contract?
and I am not saying "he's lying!", just that there's enough controversy around it that I can't comfortably believe any story.

but Fultz was already diagnosed... I get what you're saying up until the point his condition was confirmed. it's clear cut now and there's nothing left to debate or speculate about

how he got the injury is irrelevant and a whole other discussion

I know he has been, but I also read that this syndrome has been diagnosed based on symptoms once you exclude all other hypothesis. And the fact that it's unclear how it suddenly appeared is part of the story I am wondering we'll ever know the story about, as it would change a lot if we found out from an injury performing an activity forbidden by his contact.



___
Sent from my Nokia 3210 using RealGM mobile app

[BadaBoom]

I have a friend with Thoracic Outlet Syndrome and asked him about it after hearing about the Fultz diagnosis (he's not a basketball fan or an athlete but when I told him people didn't believe Fultz he found it annoying!). He showed me the range of motion he had in his arms. He could only raise his arms about 45 degrees upwards. He could get them all the way up but not fluidly and not without pain. He also said his hands go numb a lot.

I'm sure Fultz has received the best treatment money can buy to mitigate the symptoms as best as possible. But looking at my friend, there's no way he could take a normal jump shot if he wanted to. It makes perfect sense with how Fultz shot has changed as well, way lower release, flinging it out in front of him.

It is annoying that people still doubt him or chalk this up to some kind of mental block. None of us would be balling with TOS.

it's really odd seeing so much skepticism about this. when did basketball fans turn into doctors? it's like watching a basketball games entitles some people to diagnose injuries and mental health (and even worse, disagree with actual experts)

Thoracic outlet syndrome has 3 variants, neurologic (affecting the brachial plexus, a bundle of nerves that innervate the arm), venous (affecting the subclavian vein) and arterial (the subclavian artery). Neurologic is the most common one. Venous TOS is related to repetitive motion that produces thrombosis in the subclavian/axillary vein called Paget Schroetter Syndrome, seen in pitchers. Arterial is very rare.

Most physicians probably do not have experience with TOS other than reading about it or seeing it in training. The arterial and venous variants are easier to diagnose since it involves thrombosis. But the neurological variant is harder to diagnose. There's various physical tests that can reproduce symptoms that can give a clinician more information. As well as imaging tests that look for an extra rib that is thought to produce/contribute to the symptoms. Some order electromyographical testing. But the diagnosis isn't an "aha!" type of diagnosis.

If neurologic TOS is suspected the first thing to do is extensive physical therapy and if indicated, first rib resection or scalene resection.

indeed, my personal experience reflects what you say:
I had "Scapula alata" in my 20's. I was fine until I wasn't all of a sudden. I started to have constant pain similar to an elongated tendons in my shooting arm/shoulder so i had to sit for a few weeks then i could play a few weeks and it came back, rinse and repeat.
It lasted 3 years and I saw like 5 different specialists who were 100% wrong in their diagnosis. One day I consulted a physiotherapist and after looking at my back for 15 seconds he said : hum, your right scapula is really lifted, i think you have a compressed nerve issue. I passed a electromyographical and it confirmed the diagnosis.
Nerves issues are really not the first thing that comes to doctors mind, even the one specialized in sport trauma because it's not that common compared to other issues. This physiotherapist already encountered this in his career so he thought about it but the previous ones absolutely never considered it and when i told them it was a first for them (and we talk about "sport medicine" specialists with 10/20 years of exp).
Of course Fultz had access to another tier of specialists than me but imo it makes sense that it takes time to have a good diagnosis with this type of "unclear" injuries. It's not like something is broken and you can easily see it after checking a few images.

[alevirfe]

to put a final nail in the coffin, for those of you that choose to doubt reports from medical doctors, why not use your own two eyes:

Watch on YouTube

I wonder how much more damage Fultz did by continuing to play through the injury, and how much the pressure from Philly management had to do with it

you hear nightmare scenarios like Kawhi on the Spurs; a SUPERSTAR who was put under so much pressure to play through injury that it led to a trade, or even IT pressured to play on a bad hip in Boston causing him to miss out on $100M

think about what it was like for a rookie with little leverage or know-how on how to navigate the situation...

sad & under-reported story. Philly made Fultz walk the plank and possibly ruined a really promising career

[-Luke-]

I was also skeptical about the diagnosis when it happened. Then I dealt with thoracic outlet syndrome myself for more than a year. Definitely not funny. In my case, fortunately, the left (non-dominant) arm was affected. But the symptoms ranged from nothing or a little tingling to numbness of the entire left half of the upper body (arm, shoulder, even into the chest) and nerve pain. I can totally see how he had to adjust his shot during that time, be it consciously or unconsciously. Nothing just feels the same as it normally does.

And physical and mental problems are not necessarily mutually exclusive. One can also follow from the other. One has problems with the arm, is more aware of the shot form, is stuck in his own head every time he shoots. It can be a vicious cycle and the overthinking remains even if the physical problem is gone.

[Nyce_1]

I was also skeptical about the diagnosis when it happened. Then I dealt with thoracic outlet syndrome myself for more than a year. Definitely not funny. In my case, fortunately, the left (non-dominant) arm was affected. But the symptoms ranged from nothing or a little tingling to numbness of the entire left half of the upper body (arm, shoulder, even into the chest) and nerve pain. I can totally see how he had to adjust his shot during that time, be it consciously or unconsciously. Nothing just feels the same as it normally does.

And physical and mental problems are not necessarily mutually exclusive. One can also follow from the other. One has problems with the arm, is more aware of the shot form, is stuck in his own head every time he shoots. It can be a vicious cycle and the overthinking remains even if the physical problem is gone.

hope you get better and regain some sort of normalcy again in your left arm. Good luck.

[Jables]

We know the truth, up to you to believe it. Amount of NBA conspiracies over injuries and in this case, a disorder, is tiresome.

[madmaxmedia]

it's really odd seeing so much skepticism about this. when did basketball fans turn into doctors? it's like watching a basketball games entitles some people to diagnose injuries and mental health (and even worse, disagree with actual experts)

even a doctor can't really say anything unless he's a specialist, and even a specialist can's say much without having a chance to examine the patient.
the skepticism comes because it's a very unique and weird story, because it's a condition not easy to diagnose and there's not clarity on how it came out in the first place. I read that the origin could be traumatic, is that because of a bike incident that would have breached his contract?
and I am not saying "he's lying!", just that there's enough controversy around it that I can't comfortably believe any story.

but Fultz was already diagnosed... I get what you're saying up until the point his condition was confirmed. it's clear cut now and there's nothing left to debate or speculate about

how he got the injury is irrelevant and a whole other discussion

The main issue is that it seemed to take awhile for the diagnosis to at least become publicly known. So for awhile we'd just see these clips of him shooting weird, doing the double-pump free throws, etc. and the speculations about getting the yips came out of that.

I think even after the diagnosis of a nerve issue became well known, people still questioned it as a cover up for mental issues or whatever.

I think everyone has moved on by now, and hopefully he can rebound strong.

If the condition originally did come about from an accident doing a somersault on a BMX bike, that's unfortunate. I don't blame him for the injury, but I would say this is a cautionary tale for any prospective pro athlete to not expose your body to unnecessary risk.

[Invictus88]

to put a final nail in the coffin, for those of you that choose to doubt reports from medical doctors, why not use your own two eyes:

Watch on YouTube

I wonder how much more damage Fultz did by continuing to play through the injury, and how much the pressure from Philly management had to do with it

you hear nightmare scenarios like Kawhi on the Spurs; a SUPERSTAR who was put under so much pressure to play through injury that it led to a trade, or even IT pressured to play on a bad hip in Boston causing him to miss out on $100M

think about what it was like for a rookie with little leverage or know-how on how to navigate the situation...

sad & under-reported story. Philly made Fultz walk the plank and possibly ruined a really promising career

If the whole bouncing back and forth of the ball during his free throw motion isn't damning evidence he had TOS then I don't know what is.

The only reason you would ever do that is if you were having trouble feeling the ball midway through your motion. It's such an unnatural thing to do in any other circumstance and otherwise just makes it way more likely your release will be off-target. Nobody in the world (coaches, players, fans, etc) would ever recommend keeping that if it wasn't absolutely needed.

[rzzzzz]

There was a SL game, where Fultz played against Tatum and Brown. All three of them looked great. Since Fultz dominated the ball, he was most dominant of the 3. Plus, he had a real knack of creating separation to get his shot off. He didn’t hit a high percentage of shots that game, but his form looked just fine. If I recall, it was a pretty exciting contest, with Fultz getting stuffed from behind at the rim to end things. The shot that Fultz showed up to camp with looked nothing like SL. It was broke. His shoulder dinged bad.

[soxfan2003]

Its very unlucky, because in college Fultz could create space for jump shots better than anyone, like James Harden but more athletic

I was always extremely skeptical about Fultz before that draft.
1) put up stats on terrible college team. Scoring stats were excellent but still inflated by playing a higher percentage of his games against lousy teams since his college season was cut short due to injury.
2) Unlike Lonzo Ball and other players who shot plenty of shots from NBA distance, Fultz never displayed NBA level 3 point shooting in college. Difference between college 3 and NBA 3.
3) Overall his package of height/athleticism, clearly inferior to James Harden.
4) Fultz was delusional and not mature. In an interview, he said he wanted to be MVP of the NBA as a rookie. Same guy who couldn't help his bad college team to a .500 record.
5) nice midrange/driving game but if that is all you got at Fultz height, you won't be that good in the nba.
6) bad free throw shooter for a college freshman PG that is going to need to make it in the NBA largely based upon shooting ability. Fultz was never expected to be anywhere close to John Wall as an athletes. Had the moves/quickness to get a shot off against most people but unless it goes in, doesn't mean that much nowadays.

I referred to Fultz as a mini Harden (not as good) who probably won't shoot as well as Harden (even worse). I thought his upside could be as a 20 PPG scorer but in all likelihood not a high impact one because of mediocre defense. His defense was bad in college.

[-Luke-]

I was also skeptical about the diagnosis when it happened. Then I dealt with thoracic outlet syndrome myself for more than a year. Definitely not funny. In my case, fortunately, the left (non-dominant) arm was affected. But the symptoms ranged from nothing or a little tingling to numbness of the entire left half of the upper body (arm, shoulder, even into the chest) and nerve pain. I can totally see how he had to adjust his shot during that time, be it consciously or unconsciously. Nothing just feels the same as it normally does.

And physical and mental problems are not necessarily mutually exclusive. One can also follow from the other. One has problems with the arm, is more aware of the shot form, is stuck in his own head every time he shoots. It can be a vicious cycle and the overthinking remains even if the physical problem is gone.

hope you get better and regain some sort of normalcy again in your left arm. Good luck.

Thanks man! It's pretty much back to normal now. Let's say 90-95% of what it was. But it took me one and a half years to get to this point.