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James Wiseman 2021/2022

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Re: James Wiseman 2021/2022 

Post#1241 » by Onus » Wed May 4, 2022 2:38 pm

ForeverRDjazz wrote:
FNQ wrote:
Warriors Analyst wrote:
The amount of disrespect the core championship vets have for this Utah team is hilarious.


I really get the vibe that Gobert is just so unlikeable that it spills over to their assessment of him. I'm 100% team Donovan Mitchell all the way there

As a jazz fan I'm NOT on Mitchell's side. Slow and plays zero defense and Rudy is always rotating over to help on D while others never rotate to cover Rudy's man. Our team defense just sucks. Rudy will always tried to stop the driver and easy buckets and then others blame Rudy for poor defense is blind. We have to trade one or the other I'm Dumping Mitchell first.

Building around Mitchell would be like building around a better Monta Ellis. I wouldn't want to do it
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Re: James Wiseman 2021/2022 

Post#1242 » by ForeverRDjazz » Wed May 4, 2022 2:47 pm

Onus wrote:
ForeverRDjazz wrote:
FNQ wrote:
I really get the vibe that Gobert is just so unlikeable that it spills over to their assessment of him. I'm 100% team Donovan Mitchell all the way there

As a jazz fan I'm NOT on Mitchell's side. Slow and plays zero defense and Rudy is always rotating over to help on D while others never rotate to cover Rudy's man. Our team defense just sucks. Rudy will always tried to stop the driver and easy buckets and then others blame Rudy for poor defense is blind. We have to trade one or the other I'm Dumping Mitchell first.

Building around Mitchell would be like building around a better Monta Ellis. I wouldn't want to do it

This guy breaks it down good.

https://youtu.be/CDTrUdGRUvA?t=584
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Re: James Wiseman 2021/2022 

Post#1243 » by Onus » Wed May 4, 2022 2:52 pm

ForeverRDjazz wrote:
Onus wrote:
ForeverRDjazz wrote:As a jazz fan I'm NOT on Mitchell's side. Slow and plays zero defense and Rudy is always rotating over to help on D while others never rotate to cover Rudy's man. Our team defense just sucks. Rudy will always tried to stop the driver and easy buckets and then others blame Rudy for poor defense is blind. We have to trade one or the other I'm Dumping Mitchell first.

Building around Mitchell would be like building around a better Monta Ellis. I wouldn't want to do it

This guy breaks it down good.

https://youtu.be/CDTrUdGRUvA?t=584

Yea I have a running argument with my friend about Gobert and Mitchell and I have been saying Gobert is more impactful than Mitchell.

But I also think Mitchell is overrated. A 6'1'' sg who doesn't play defense and isn't an elite offensive engine. He's got ample offensive help.
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2011 Dirk Nowitzki 10.3 (68.0% TS)
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Re: James Wiseman 2021/2022 

Post#1244 » by ForeverRDjazz » Wed May 4, 2022 3:01 pm

Onus wrote:
ForeverRDjazz wrote:
Onus wrote:Building around Mitchell would be like building around a better Monta Ellis. I wouldn't want to do it

This guy breaks it down good.

https://youtu.be/CDTrUdGRUvA?t=584

Yea I have a running argument with my friend about Gobert and Mitchell and I have been saying Gobert is more impactful than Mitchell.

But I also think Mitchell is overrated. A 6'1'' sg who doesn't play defense and isn't an elite offensive engine. He's got ample offensive help.

If I owned the jazz Mitchell would be the first of the two I'd move. Mitchell Defense is about effect and he give about 10 percent. Jordan C is a better overall scorer and harder to guard that Mitchell and plays better D. I'm moving DM and starting JC if I'm GM.
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Re: James Wiseman 2021/2022 

Post#1245 » by Big J » Mon May 23, 2022 9:04 pm

Do you guys think that Wiseman is actually taking in this run and watching Looney and realizing what winning defense and passing look like, or is he going to come in next year and think that he's the next David Robinson with a 3 point stroke like he did his rookie year?
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Re: James Wiseman 2021/2022 

Post#1246 » by DonaldSanders » Mon May 23, 2022 9:30 pm

Big J wrote:Do you guys think that Wiseman is actually taking in this run and watching Looney and realizing what winning defense and passing look like, or is he going to come in next year and think that he's the next David Robinson with a 3 point stroke like he did his rookie year?


Unfortunately I think Wiseman has a picture in his mind of him being an all-star "go to" center on the offensive end, when we actually need him to be a better version of Looney. :(

Wiseman has the physical tools to be the kind of big we need, but I'm not sure he is willing, interested, or aware that he should be playing differently. Maybe I'm overreacting to his G-League film, I'd love to be pleasantly surprised.
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Re: James Wiseman 2021/2022 

Post#1247 » by Big J » Mon May 23, 2022 9:48 pm

DonaldSanders wrote:
Big J wrote:Do you guys think that Wiseman is actually taking in this run and watching Looney and realizing what winning defense and passing look like, or is he going to come in next year and think that he's the next David Robinson with a 3 point stroke like he did his rookie year?


Unfortunately I think Wiseman has a picture in his mind of him being an all-star "go to" center on the offensive end, when we actually need him to be a better version of Looney. :(

Wiseman has the physical tools to be the kind of big we need, but I'm not sure he is willing, interested, or aware that he should be playing differently. Maybe I'm overreacting to his G-League film, I'd love to be pleasantly surprised.


I agree, it's kind of hilarious that he can watch what Curry, Draymond, & Klay are doing and think he's gonna be the man instead of them. The guy is delusional.
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Re: James Wiseman 2021/2022 

Post#1248 » by DonaldSanders » Mon May 23, 2022 10:02 pm

Big J wrote:
DonaldSanders wrote:
Big J wrote:Do you guys think that Wiseman is actually taking in this run and watching Looney and realizing what winning defense and passing look like, or is he going to come in next year and think that he's the next David Robinson with a 3 point stroke like he did his rookie year?


Unfortunately I think Wiseman has a picture in his mind of him being an all-star "go to" center on the offensive end, when we actually need him to be a better version of Looney. :(

Wiseman has the physical tools to be the kind of big we need, but I'm not sure he is willing, interested, or aware that he should be playing differently. Maybe I'm overreacting to his G-League film, I'd love to be pleasantly surprised.


I agree, it's kind of hilarious that he can watch what Curry, Draymond, & Klay are doing and think he's gonna be the man instead of them. The guy is delusional.


What I'd say is that it's less about Wiseman thinking he is going to be the man in place of them, but instead that James is attached to the player he's been on teams his whole life. That's not just as something he wants, but like a playstyle that is engrained in his mind. I assume he was the star in every pre-college league game he played in, then in he played 3 games in college where he had a 29% usage (Zion had 28.6 for comparison). He only knows one way of playing, and this is one of the biggest problems for big men entering the NBA who never got to transition at all to being more of a fundamentals type player like Looney.

My guess is he has seen the attention Kevon has gotten but it hasn't quite sunk in that he himself needs to change. I think he assumes what Kevon does is stuff he'll automatically be able to just do because he's a big physical freak, totally ignoring Looney's strength, commitment, and big basketball IQ. Looney's IQ is subtle at times because a lot of it is superior positioning (and sometimes near invisible stuff like leaning or weight transfer). A young player like James is usually not a positioning god because they're used to getting by with their athleticism... that's part of why he's also hard to play for the Warriors. He isn't good at a lot of the subtleties of the game, at some point he will need to accept that he needs to change in order to improve.

I hope it sinks in during the season next year! I try not to underestimate our vets & their ability to influence, if there is a group that can get him to it's this one right here.
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Re: James Wiseman 2021/2022 

Post#1249 » by Big J » Mon May 23, 2022 10:08 pm

DonaldSanders wrote:
Big J wrote:
DonaldSanders wrote:
Unfortunately I think Wiseman has a picture in his mind of him being an all-star "go to" center on the offensive end, when we actually need him to be a better version of Looney. :(

Wiseman has the physical tools to be the kind of big we need, but I'm not sure he is willing, interested, or aware that he should be playing differently. Maybe I'm overreacting to his G-League film, I'd love to be pleasantly surprised.


I agree, it's kind of hilarious that he can watch what Curry, Draymond, & Klay are doing and think he's gonna be the man instead of them. The guy is delusional.


What I'd say is that it's less about Wiseman thinking he is going to be the man in place of them, but instead that James is attached to the player he's been on teams his whole life. That's not just as something he wants, but like a playstyle that is engrained in his mind. I assume he was the star in every pre-college league game he played in, then in he played 3 games in college where he had a 29% usage (Zion had 28.6 for comparison). He only knows one way of playing, and this is one of the biggest problems for big men entering the NBA who never got to transition at all to being more of a fundamentals type player like Looney.

My guess is he has seen the attention Kevon has gotten but it hasn't quite sunk in that he himself needs to change. I think he assumes what Kevon does is stuff he'll automatically be able to just do because he's a big physical freak, totally ignoring Looney's strength, commitment, and big basketball IQ. Looney's IQ is subtle at times because a lot of it is superior positioning. A young player like James is usually not a positioning god because they're used to getting by with their athleticism... that's part of why he's also hard to play for the Warriors. He isn't good at a lot of the subtleties of the game, at some point he will need to accept that he needs to change in order to improve.

I hope it sinks in during the season next year! I try not to underestimate our vets & their ability to influence, if there is a group that can get him to it's this one right here.


Yea, I do remember Draymond laying into him pretty hard during his rookie year. The crazy thing is that it took Wiggins 6 years to figure out that he needs to forget about trying to be man and try harder on the little things.
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Re: James Wiseman 2021/2022 

Post#1250 » by Coxy » Mon May 23, 2022 10:54 pm

Sitting on the sidelines injured and not playing for a long period of time, will no doubt change Wiseman's mindset on what he needs to do to even get another contract in the league, let alone become an all-star C. He'll have "Oden, Olowokandi, Thabeet, Bowie, Darko, Bennett" names hurled at him non stop soon as another big man bust, so if he cares, he'll want to get back on the court and do whatever it takes to contribute sooner rather than later.
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Re: James Wiseman 2021/2022 

Post#1251 » by FNQ » Mon May 23, 2022 11:25 pm

We joked about it last year, but Wiseman sitting out all year might be the MVP
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Re: James Wiseman 2021/2022 

Post#1252 » by sonnyhill » Mon May 23, 2022 11:45 pm

Coxy wrote:Sitting on the sidelines injured and not playing for a long period of time, will no doubt change Wiseman's mindset on what he needs to do to even get another contract in the league, let alone become an all-star C. He'll have "Oden, Olowokandi, Thabeet, Bowie, Darko, Bennett" names hurled at him non stop soon as another big man bust, so if he cares, he'll want to get back on the court and do whatever it takes to contribute sooner rather than later.


Not to be left off your list are Chris Washburn and Patrick O'Bryant, the Warriors' original 'chef!'
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Re: James Wiseman 2021/2022 

Post#1253 » by Coxy » Mon May 23, 2022 11:54 pm

sonnyhill wrote:
Coxy wrote:Sitting on the sidelines injured and not playing for a long period of time, will no doubt change Wiseman's mindset on what he needs to do to even get another contract in the league, let alone become an all-star C. He'll have "Oden, Olowokandi, Thabeet, Bowie, Darko, Bennett" names hurled at him non stop soon as another big man bust, so if he cares, he'll want to get back on the court and do whatever it takes to contribute sooner rather than later.


Not to be left off your list are Chris Washburn and Patrick O'Bryant, the Warriors' original 'chef!'


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Re: James Wiseman 2021/2022 

Post#1254 » by Coxy » Mon May 23, 2022 11:56 pm

FNQ wrote:We joked about it last year, but Wiseman sitting out all year might be the MVP


From a contract point of view as well. Might be able to get a nice low ball deal done for a few extra years off the rookie scale from him, whilst his body actually settles into itself.
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Re: James Wiseman 2021/2022 

Post#1255 » by FNQ » Tue May 24, 2022 12:03 am

Coxy wrote:
FNQ wrote:We joked about it last year, but Wiseman sitting out all year might be the MVP


From a contract point of view as well. Might be able to get a nice low ball deal done for a few extra years off the rookie scale from him, whilst his body actually settles into itself.


How about this hypothetical question:

If it meant retaining Klay, Wiggins, Poole, Looney, and GP2 for the next 2 years after this one.. would you decline Wiseman's 4th year?
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Re: James Wiseman 2021/2022 

Post#1256 » by Coxy » Tue May 24, 2022 12:10 am

FNQ wrote:
Coxy wrote:
FNQ wrote:We joked about it last year, but Wiseman sitting out all year might be the MVP


From a contract point of view as well. Might be able to get a nice low ball deal done for a few extra years off the rookie scale from him, whilst his body actually settles into itself.


How about this hypothetical question:

If it meant retaining Klay, Wiggins, Poole, Looney, and GP2 for the next 2 years after this one.. would you decline Wiseman's 4th year?


I'd decline retaining Poole before Wiseman.
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Re: James Wiseman 2021/2022 

Post#1257 » by FNQ » Tue May 24, 2022 12:16 am

Coxy wrote:
FNQ wrote:
Coxy wrote:
From a contract point of view as well. Might be able to get a nice low ball deal done for a few extra years off the rookie scale from him, whilst his body actually settles into itself.


How about this hypothetical question:

If it meant retaining Klay, Wiggins, Poole, Looney, and GP2 for the next 2 years after this one.. would you decline Wiseman's 4th year?


I'd decline retaining Poole before Wiseman.


Didnt expect that answer tbh. I think a thread on this could be interesting.. not just that hypothetical, prioritizing FAs for the next 2 years
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Re: James Wiseman 2021/2022 

Post#1258 » by shazam_guy » Tue May 24, 2022 12:19 am

Big J wrote:
DonaldSanders wrote:
Big J wrote:Do you guys think that Wiseman is actually taking in this run and watching Looney and realizing what winning defense and passing look like, or is he going to come in next year and think that he's the next David Robinson with a 3 point stroke like he did his rookie year?


Unfortunately I think Wiseman has a picture in his mind of him being an all-star "go to" center on the offensive end, when we actually need him to be a better version of Looney. :(

Wiseman has the physical tools to be the kind of big we need, but I'm not sure he is willing, interested, or aware that he should be playing differently. Maybe I'm overreacting to his G-League film, I'd love to be pleasantly surprised.


I agree, it's kind of hilarious that he can watch what Curry, Draymond, & Klay are doing and think he's gonna be the man instead of them. The guy is delusional.



Yet another example of people sitting in front of a television or occasionally going to games suggesting they know EXACTLY what's going on in a player's mind -- and then using it to badmouth him. (It's particularly ridiculous with a guy who hasn't played in the league for over a year.) I may be alone in getting irritated by nonsense like this, but I know silly takes when I see them.

You want to say he's not worth keeping? Fine. That his type won't work for the current Warriors? Fine, too. You want to say he has to do better than he has in the past? Also absolutely reasonable. But sitting around griping about what's in his head without having the slightest knowledge of whether it's actually true? Pretty weak.
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Re: James Wiseman 2021/2022 

Post#1259 » by Big J » Tue May 24, 2022 12:28 am

Coxy wrote:
FNQ wrote:
Coxy wrote:
From a contract point of view as well. Might be able to get a nice low ball deal done for a few extra years off the rookie scale from him, whilst his body actually settles into itself.


How about this hypothetical question:

If it meant retaining Klay, Wiggins, Poole, Looney, and GP2 for the next 2 years after this one.. would you decline Wiseman's 4th year?


I'd decline retaining Poole before Wiseman.


We wouldn't have advanced this far in the playoffs without Poole.
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Re: James Wiseman 2021/2022 

Post#1260 » by FNQ » Tue May 24, 2022 12:32 am

shazam_guy wrote:Yet another example of people sitting in front of a television or occasionally going to games suggesting they know EXACTLY what's going on in a player's mind -- and then using it to badmouth him. (It's particularly ridiculous with a guy who hasn't played in the league for over a year.) I may be alone in getting irritated by nonsense like this, but I know silly takes when I see them.


Nah you arent

2 things on this board that are aggravating as ****: people creating a problem with a player that they blame them for, and opposing teams fans trying to wrongly explain your team to you

no time for that **** :nonono:

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