James Wiseman 2021/2022

[FNQ]

I agree, it's kind of hilarious that he can watch what Curry, Draymond, & Klay are doing and think he's gonna be the man instead of them. The guy is delusional.

Yet another example of people sitting in front of a television or occasionally going to games suggesting they know EXACTLY what's going on in a player's mind -- and then using it to badmouth him. (It's particularly ridiculous with a guy who hasn't played in the league for over a year.) I may be alone in getting irritated by nonsense like this, but I know silly takes when I see them.

You want to say he's not worth keeping? Fine. That his type won't work for the current Warriors? Fine, too. You want to say he has to do better than he has in the past? Also absolutely reasonable. But sitting around griping about what's in his head without having the slightest knowledge of whether it's actually true? Pretty weak.

You are not alone on this, it was the first thing i thought about, and i was looking for somethungbhe said or done lately to deserve this. Still looking......

I saw it as a critique of the slippery slope.

I dont think its necessarily unfair to look at Wiseman's GL stuff and say that he was doing things that he likely won't do on the main roster. Compare that to his rookie run, and yes, he tried to get way too involved when he touched the ball. It's not entirely out of pocket to wonder if that's his mentality - and if it is, that's fine, because he's a #2 pick overall and he has to balance his career and what he wants out of it with what the team wants. If they draft him #2 and then say, ok, be Javale McGee.. why would he want that? Why wouldn't he want to show he can do more, get paid more, etc? But thats a different conversation.

The problem is the suggestion became a legitimate thing happening in the next post, where now Wiseman is delusional for having hypothetically thought that. And you can blame either one for that but having had it happen to me 100000000 times on this forum, I hate someone having taken an idea that was (or at least was attempted) nuanced and running with it, either turning a suggestion into a fact or taking a small part of an idea and making it a focal point.

Unfortunately since social media and the internet came along, it's commonplace. Gotta be careful because there's always some people out there trying to weaponize things in the dumbest way

[FNQ]

What's the alternative to Poole though?

They wouldn't be on the verge of the Finals without Poole. Maybe they'd have lost some more games and still won the first two series.

But who else is going to be a volume scorer off the bench, reliable at the FT line and somewhat reliable for big open 3s?

Let's say a lotto team bites and trades away a top 5 pick for a package which includes Poole. Is there anyone in the draft ready to score next season with good efficiency and range beyond the 3 point line?

Because win or lose, if and when they make the Finals, expectations for next season will be high. Team will expect to be in this position again and the WC will be much more competitive with key players coming back from injuries to make the Clippers and Nuggets much better.

yes, Ivey

The continuity bit that I love to preach matters less for Poole, who operates as isolated as one could on this team. He's best offensively as a one-read guard, both passing and scoring, and he's still showing almost no growth in our defensive concepts, the same ones he's been an active part of for 1.5 years.

He's as close to a clone of Poole as you can get, except he's faster and plays better defense. His jumper is more questionable because of his form, but he also gets more space than Poole because of his better handle/speed

If someone gives you the opportunity to turn that into Jaden Ivey on a rookie deal, and thus cements we can keep Looney and Wiggins as well.. man that's a no-brainer. You do that and thank your lucky stars that Vivek is still involved with the team

[wco81]

That's fine, he may have a much greater ceiling long term.

But is he going to be efficient at the 3 with good efficiency in his rookie year?

Or even in his second year, which may still be in the window for the Warriors?

Also if Sacto passes up a chance to draft Ivey because they already have Fox and Mitchell, why would they trade that pick for Poole?

More than likely they will ask for someone like Klay. Vivek might go for it since he's one of the most beloved Warriors player of all time.

[FNQ]

That's fine, he may have a much greater ceiling long term.

But is he going to be efficient at the 3 with good efficiency in his rookie year?

Or even in his second year, which may still be in the window for the Warriors?

Also if Sacto passes up a chance to draft Ivey because they already have Fox and Mitchell, why would they trade that pick for Poole?

More than likely they will ask for someone like Klay. Vivek might go for it since he's one of the most beloved Warriors player of all time.

lol I'd probably do that too. Not sure why Vivek would do it, not sure why Vivek does anything he does tbh. I just know that if the offer were there, I'd take it. I wouldnt take #5 because Ivey's likely top 4 and I have no idea about Sharpe or whoever is slotted into 5 these days. But Ivey? Watch him.. its uncanny how much like Poole he is. Negatives and positives.

Would he be as efficient on 3s? I'd wager no, but he'd be much better on defense, and theres a least the potential for him to mature around a very good group of professionals, playing smarter. A smart playing Ivey... that could dominate the league.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

I assume Wiseman is sitting on the bench in street clothes for these playoffs. But I have not noticed Wiseman.

[Zvaart]

Yet another example of people sitting in front of a television or occasionally going to games suggesting they know EXACTLY what's going on in a player's mind -- and then using it to badmouth him. (It's particularly ridiculous with a guy who hasn't played in the league for over a year.) I may be alone in getting irritated by nonsense like this, but I know silly takes when I see them.

You want to say he's not worth keeping? Fine. That his type won't work for the current Warriors? Fine, too. You want to say he has to do better than he has in the past? Also absolutely reasonable. But sitting around griping about what's in his head without having the slightest knowledge of whether it's actually true? Pretty weak.

You are not alone on this, it was the first thing i thought about, and i was looking for somethungbhe said or done lately to deserve this. Still looking......

I saw it as a critique of the slippery slope.

I dont think its necessarily unfair to look at Wiseman's GL stuff and say that he was doing things that he likely won't do on the main roster. Compare that to his rookie run, and yes, he tried to get way too involved when he touched the ball. It's not entirely out of pocket to wonder if that's his mentality - and if it is, that's fine, because he's a #2 pick overall and he has to balance his career and what he wants out of it with what the team wants. If they draft him #2 and then say, ok, be Javale McGee.. why would he want that? Why wouldn't he want to show he can do more, get paid more, etc? But thats a different conversation.

The problem is the suggestion became a legitimate thing happening in the next post, where now Wiseman is delusional for having hypothetically thought that. And you can blame either one for that but having had it happen to me 100000000 times on this forum, I hate someone having taken an idea that was (or at least was attempted) nuanced and running with it, either turning a suggestion into a fact or taking a small part of an idea and making it a focal point.

Unfortunately since social media and the internet came along, it's commonplace. Gotta be careful because there's always some people out there trying to weaponize things in the dumbest way

Yeah, unfortunately social media is showing us we are slowly going towards Idiocracy

[shazam_guy]

The reports I can find suggest that Wiseman was expected to travel with the team for playoffs, and that he was particularly disappointed he couldn't be in the POs against Memphis, since Tennessee is his home state.

[Coxy]

And if you follow up this to asking me "What price would you want to retain him at then?", then my answer is probably $5m per season. At that rate, the expectation level is for a volume microwave scorer that we can bench at any time we choose, and we aren't making a huge financial commitment to him which forces Kerr to play him a lot.

From mid-April (just a little over one (!) month ago):

We'd be lucky to trade Wiggins for anything decent this off season, but I think we'll take anything we can get. We have to keep Poole at all costs.

We have to keep Poole long term at any cost.

Talk about being erratic lol, not sure I've ever seen such a quick 180 on a player by one poster. It's good that decisions are made by level-headed evaluators that don't jump between extremes from one week to the next.

What makes it even funnier is that Poole is the same player he has been one month ago, except that he's now shown it in the playoffs and actually increased his scoring efficiency. The playoffs have not shown a single deficiency that we weren't already aware of.

Yeah well, players get better, players get worse, the world is a fluid place, full of grey and not black and white. Poole looked like he had turned the corner and went through a patch of amazing in control play, and he looked like a keeper. Now in the playoffs he looks like the erratic volume scorer with no defence all over again, and my trust in him to be more than that has gone.

If anyone is going to try and claim that they saw this post season Wiggins coming, then I’ll call them a liar. He’s a completely different player than the apathetic space cadet he can be during patches of the regular season.

People change, shocking concept.

I find it funny when people spend precious time and energy drumming up peoples previous takes about certain players, teams, etc, like it’s some sort of evidence base to slander someone. I post here cause I find it fun, not because I think I’m a GM, or a future NBA talent scout, or a TV analyst, I’m a fan that lives over the other side of the world that has no connection to the team whatsoever. Unless you work for the team and are close to the players, coaches, management, you’re opinion is fairly irrelevant anyway. If you want to spend your time drumming up old posts on a website and find that fun, you’re better off watching Stephen A, or Nick Wright, or some other douchebag that claims their takes are gospel, you’ll get all the ammo you are wanting.

[azwfan]

I once posted something to the affect that Curry is useless if he’s not hitting shots. It was over 10 years ago but that does not excuse me. Flame away!

[azwfan]

Back to Wiseman. I wonder what if any effect our development coaches have had on Wiggins and Looney and perhaps that may indicate good things in the future for Wiseman - assuming he ever gets healthy.

[Big J]

The only thing that I expect of Wiseman is to eat up some regular season minutes. He'll never get to play in the playoffs against a team with a Luka type on it who forces big men to switch onto him.

[azwfan]

The only thing that I expect of Wiseman is to eat up some regular season minutes. He'll never get to play in the playoffs against a team with a Luka type on it who forces big men to switch onto him.

Good thing there’s only 1 Luka.

[FNQ]

If anyone is going to try and claim that they saw this post season Wiggins coming, then I’ll call them a liar. He’s a completely different player than the apathetic space cadet he can be during patches of the regular season.

Spoiler:

Mainly because he wasn't that all season, he was lost as hell when Draymond was out and he dropped into that role

[FNQ]

The only thing that I expect of Wiseman is to eat up some regular season minutes. He'll never get to play in the playoffs against a team with a Luka type on it who forces big men to switch onto him.

Good thing there’s only 1 Luka.

And we probably dont want to run Looney into the ground either. Plenty of opportunity for Wiseman to carve out a role

[whatisacenter]

The only thing that I expect of Wiseman is to eat up some regular season minutes. He'll never get to play in the playoffs against a team with a Luka type on it who forces big men to switch onto him.

Good thing there’s only 1 Luka.

And we probably dont want to run Looney into the ground either. Plenty of opportunity for Wiseman to carve out a role

I'm sure there wasn't a single poster on here who looked at Looney coming out of college and said, "I bet he will be great at guarding the Hardens and Lukas of the world". And yes, I know Luka wasn't in the league when Looney was drafted. Point being, let Wiseman get back on the floor with a smidgeon of experience before we judge what he can and can't do.

[shazam_guy]

The difference for me, Coxy, is that though you may sometimes make statements I don't agree with, you don't a) spend all your energy hating on the team, and b) you don't angrily defend your takes, implying or even outright proclaiming that the people who disagree with you are rah-rah idiots or ignorant fools (or whatever).

I don't claim to be a GM- or a coach-quality-analyst either, but I've been watching the game (and the Warriors) for decades and decades and I do see a few things. I don't ever have a problem with with your takes because you don't act like they're gospel truth that everyone else is just too stupid or cowardly to admit are the inarguable truth.

[clyde21]

This is true, but one intangible has spiked in the playoffs.. stupidity

Let's take this as factual (and not just a matter of perception). Either he's just stupid on the court, but then he cannot have been not stupid in the RS. Or he's just having more stupid moments, in which case that's entirely fixable (especially if it concerns moments of immaturity which are fairly normal for 22 year olds).

Listen, I'm not saying Poole is a max-level player at this point. But in this league, you pay young players for what they could realistically be. If Poole never improves past this point or even regresses, then he's not worth the big contract. But looking at his developmental curve and his well-documented work ethic, Poole is as good a bet as any young player to continue to improve.

Where he'll end up remains to be seen. Will he become an All-Star level player? Who knows. But if you liked Poole prior to the playoffs, you should still like him, because he performs as well – or even better – than he did in the RS and all of his deficiencies have already been present and on display before the playoffs.

It feels like the shifts in opinion on Poole are simply because people are getting tired of watching Poole for various reasons, and not because of anything actually relating to Poole's development, performance, upside, or changes in his personality or behavior. In other words, it seems to be much more about ‘likability’ than factors that should be relevant to the actual decision-makers.

can't speak for Coxy or anyone else but I have been pretty consistent in saying we should trade Poole this offseason.

[clyde21]

Unfortunately I think Wiseman has a picture in his mind of him being an all-star "go to" center on the offensive end, when we actually need him to be a better version of Looney.

Wiseman has the physical tools to be the kind of big we need, but I'm not sure he is willing, interested, or aware that he should be playing differently. Maybe I'm overreacting to his G-League film, I'd love to be pleasantly surprised.

I agree, it's kind of hilarious that he can watch what Curry, Draymond, & Klay are doing and think he's gonna be the man instead of them. The guy is delusional.

Yet another example of people sitting in front of a television or occasionally going to games suggesting they know EXACTLY what's going on in a player's mind -- and then using it to badmouth him. (It's particularly ridiculous with a guy who hasn't played in the league for over a year.) I may be alone in getting irritated by nonsense like this, but I know silly takes when I see them.

You want to say he's not worth keeping? Fine. That his type won't work for the current Warriors? Fine, too. You want to say he has to do better than he has in the past? Also absolutely reasonable. But sitting around griping about what's in his head without having the slightest knowledge of whether it's actually true? Pretty weak.

i mean, Wiseman is literally on record saying he likes to emulate Kevin Durant. maybe that has changed, i dunno, but the dude has been delusional for quite some time. if he doesn't understand what kind of player he is or what role he's gonna be asked to play here, it's NEVER gonna work. period.

but again, it's not really his fault. it's the fault of management trying to fit a square peg into a round hole here. he was never a good fit.

like...at some point you guys are gonna have to come to grips with reality here.

[Big J]

It’s possible sitting on his ass and watching Looney get heaps of praise has humbled him a bit. However, based on the garbage he was pulling in his GLeague stint it’s not likely.

[watch1958]

It’s possible sitting on his ass and watching Looney get heaps of praise has humbled him a bit. However, based on the garbage he was pulling in his GLeague stint it’s not likely.

I’m still a bit optimistic. Remember, his year ending setback came after the GLeague stuff. So he had reason to be extra humble when observing Looney.

Maybe Andre will point to Looney and say “at your size, that’s all you need to do to be a star.”