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Offseason Plan

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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#641 » by 80sballboy » Tue May 24, 2022 9:48 pm

Endless Loop wrote:I have a question for our experts here (because I'm not one!)

It seems like the most difficult way to transform a mediocre team like the Wizards quickly is through the draft and player moves. You only get one first rounder. It's gonna be number 9 or 10, etc. Not normally where you get somebody who will make an impact. (Yeah for SURE there are a bunch of exceptions to this! But looking at the Wizards these last years, those exceptions didn't include Rui, Deni or Corey.). Player moves can help for sure, but the most likely way to achieve success with trades is trading for somebody of equal talent that's a better fit. (It's not a strategy to hope your trading partner is an idiot.) It's hard to "win" a trade- not impossible, but not easy... And signing free agents is a tough way to make big improvements unless you have a lot of cap space.

An easier thing to try is to change the head coach. You certainly can argue that Unseld didn't do a great job this last year. While it's true that Spoelstras are hard to find, it's also true that there's nothing preventing the Wizards from trying. They'd end up eating some salary, but probably the total amount they'd eat would be less than one year of Bertrans. I think teams are too reluctant to make head coaching changes- certainly the Wizards are.

IMO the easiest way to improve the team would be to make significant changes with assistant coaches. I looked at the Wizards' assistant coach roster. It's a bunch of career assistants. It would have been nice to see some people from unusual backgrounds, some young blood, etc. Fresh eyes and fresh outlooks. Like the Redskins had a few years ago. If Wes is a good listener, then you can keep him around and just provide him with more support on the bench. The Wiz need to shore up Wes' weaknesses with better assistants. This may not make a huge difference, but I think it absolutely would help.

So I hope the Wizards hit it big in the draft. I hope they make a great trade. But at the very least, given the spotty coaching results this last year, they've got no excuse not to make wholesale changes on the bench. It's nuts to stick with continuity for continuity's sake when you're mediocre.


I'm sorry, but what was the question? Seems like a comment. :D :-?
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#642 » by Endless Loop » Tue May 24, 2022 9:59 pm

Well...

Does it make sense to do a wholesale swap out of assistants or is that just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic?
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#643 » by nate33 » Tue May 24, 2022 10:13 pm

I don't think we have enough data to conclude whether or not Wes Jr. is a good coach. He deserves at least 1 more year to do things his way before he gets micromanaged.
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#644 » by payitforward » Wed May 25, 2022 12:52 am

In the draft thread, I just described a pair of potential draft-day trades that resulted in wholesale changes to our roster:
payitforward wrote:...1. 10 to OKC, plus the '24 R2 pick they owe us, in return for 12 & 34.
This seems fairly reasonable. If they'd do it w/o us giving back that future R2 pick so much the better -- but, I doubt it.

2. Rui & 12 to SA for Tre Jones plus 20, 25 & 38.
I'd rather trade Kuzma than Rui, but this version seems more logical for SA.

We lose Rui but wind up with a good, young starting PG & what looks to be a whole lot of value in 5 picks this year: 20, 25, 34, 38 & 54. For example...

20 - Jalen Williams, Nikola Jovic, Jaden Hardy or Jake Laravia
25 - Kennedy Chandler, Christian Koloko, EJ Liddell, Walker Kessler or Terquavion Smith
34 - Dalen Terry or John Butler
38 - Gabriel Procida, Christian Braun or Andrew Nembhard
54 - Trevion Williams, David Roddy or Ibou Dianko Badji

Suppose we came away with Tre Jones, Kennedy Chandler, Christian Koloko, Dalen Terry, Gabriel Procida -- plus Trevion Williams taken w/ 54, but that's a pick we already have).

Assume Beal @$40m for the moment. We have 7 other guaranteed contracts at a total of @$61m. Jones would come in a sign-&-trade. As an arbitrary number, let's assume he costs $7.5m. 2 of the 5 (!) rookies would become 2 way players. The other 3 would cost @$6m. Given how young we'd be, we can assume that we'd pick up KCP's $14.4m option.

That's @$130m for 13 players, leaving us plenty of room to sign a very good free agent (at, say, $15m) & a solid guy at vet minimum while remaining comfortably under the luxury tax line.

How much of this could come true? How much makes sense to you?
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#645 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Wed May 25, 2022 4:09 pm

It sounds to me as if the very 1st trade of 10 does not occur none of the rest possibly happen.

Assuming it does go down I like all of this

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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#646 » by payitforward » Wed May 25, 2022 7:24 pm

That is correct. Though in truth I'd do Rui plus 10 for the 3 SA picks as well. I'm just trying to get that 1 more R2 pick, cuz I like a lot of rookies! 5 is better than 4!
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#647 » by doclinkin » Wed May 25, 2022 10:48 pm

Endless Loop wrote:I have a question for our experts here (because I'm not one!)

It seems like the most difficult way to transform a mediocre team like the Wizards quickly is through the draft and player moves. You only get one first rounder. It's gonna be number 9 or 10, etc. Not normally where you get somebody who will make an impact. (Yeah for SURE there are a bunch of exceptions to this! But looking at the Wizards these last years, those exceptions didn't include Rui, Deni or Corey.). Player moves can help for sure, but the most likely way to achieve success with trades is trading for somebody of equal talent that's a better fit. (It's not a strategy to hope your trading partner is an idiot.) It's hard to "win" a trade- not impossible, but not easy... And signing free agents is a tough way to make big improvements unless you have a lot of cap space.

An easier thing to try is to change the head coach. You certainly can argue that Unseld didn't do a great job this last year. While it's true that Spoelstras are hard to find, it's also true that there's nothing preventing the Wizards from trying. They'd end up eating some salary, but probably the total amount they'd eat would be less than one year of Bertrans. I think teams are too reluctant to make head coaching changes- certainly the Wizards are.

IMO the easiest way to improve the team would be to make significant changes with assistant coaches. I looked at the Wizards' assistant coach roster. It's a bunch of career assistants. It would have been nice to see some people from unusual backgrounds, some young blood, etc. Fresh eyes and fresh outlooks. Like the Redskins had a few years ago. If Wes is a good listener, then you can keep him around and just provide him with more support on the bench. The Wiz need to shore up Wes' weaknesses with better assistants. This may not make a huge difference, but I think it absolutely would help.

So I hope the Wizards hit it big in the draft. I hope they make a great trade. But at the very least, given the spotty coaching results this last year, they've got no excuse not to make wholesale changes on the bench. It's nuts to stick with continuity for continuity's sake when you're mediocre.


No coaching staff in the world can elevate mediocre talent into a contender. Especially when we are talking assistant coaches. By contender we are talking about being in the conversation for a championship. Championships tend to be won by the consensus best player in the league, unless that player is having a down year (injuries, etc) or we are between eras when the next consensus MVP has not yet arisen.

SO. You are right that attempting to draft your way to a better team cannot be done quickly. Likewise trades. Likewise coaching changes. Likewise even a new GM who is in charge of all of those things. The Wizards have decades of bad roster decisions behind them and still are lacking the roster that could have been developed with picks by the last GM. Our arsenal of options is out of bullets. You have to get used to the idea we are likely are not going to get good quickly. UNLESS we luck into that consensus MVP.

In the Wizards case we are handicapped in part by what you say: that we will generally be drafting 10-12. Our owner has stated that he does not believe in rebuilding. Especially tanking. He wants to try to win every game even when it will likely result in worse odds to actually get better. This means at the end of almost every year we tend to go on a run against teams that ARE tanking ,or are out of the playoffs and uninterested in playing hard, or against playoff teams that are resting their starters. Our odds of landing that top 4 pick commonly shrink over the last month from 40% to 13% to less. Especially now that the '10th seed' is an actual thing, not an ironic joke.

Additionally, we are handicapped by the fact that Ted likes to be perceived as loyal, in rewarding the last player we did draft highly, with a max contract that he does not deserve based on either his production or upside. So. We will have a large chunk of our salary cap tied up in an at best 'pretty good' player, who is coming off rehab.

Tommy has not been shy though about pulling off big trades. His draft record may be sub-optimal. But with his trades he has generally gotten younger. Generally picked up both a prospect and a pick. Often picked up decent players for free when they were waived from a team. He has radically re-made the roster in a short time and has zero ego in admitting he made a mistake and swiftly moving on from a poor fit. Also his moves tend to come out of nowhere and are not telegraphed in advance. Nobody predicted a Dinwiddie for Porzingis swap.

So the hope is laid at the capacity of Tommy to surprise us. In a good way. By adding more OPPORTUNITIES to shave %'s in our favor. A large % of trades are equal. A small % of draft picks are all-stars. The majority of free agent signings barely move the win/loss total since the best players tend to be locked in to long contracts and few free agents will choose a franchise with a long history of losses. We need wins in all those opportunities (draft, trade, FA signings) over a prolonged period of time. And we need more of those opportunities. More picks, more assets to trade to consolidate role players into stars, or into draft picks that may become stars. We need to trade for FAs that have uncovered upside and then uncover it. Chemistry, development, or a new situation that allows them to break out where they were suppressed before. More chances for lightning to strike.


I don't see how anyone can fault Wes for this year's failures. Especially given the undue influence that Beal has on this roster. Beal was gunning for a max contract this year, but was hit by rules changes that kneecapped his game. But Big contracts are only earned by players with big scoring totals -- even if they are inefficiently gunning to earn those numbers. So Beal had a problem sharing with Dinwiddie since that cut into his money. Then he got COVID three times. And his grandmother passed. So our 'best' player was working against the team's interest and was unable to perform. No coach in the league ever would win with a handful of journeymen and a demotivating star with too much influence.

Honestly our best chance at rebuilding would be if Beal asked for a trade to a contender. The contender traded a mess of contracts to land him. Then the contender flamed out spectacularly, raising the value of those extra chances at a franchise player in the right draft. Most of the time the best player in the draft is taken #1 or #2. Then it is a crapshoot. So the smart play is to either draft really high, or get extra picks late. I don't think every draft has that hidden all star late. And the all-stars that teams uncover late often are late bloomers and need time to season. So my belief is that we don't need to trade down and get 4 extra picks in any one particular draft. But if we get future draft picks and every year are selecting with an extra pick in both the 1st and 2nd round, we are good. A team has 17 slots on the roster (15 permanent and 2 two-way players). You need to maximize the chance to develop the guys you have.

THAT is when your assistant coaches come into play: player development. But for that you really need at least 3 years to see if a player is improving. Many players breakout in their 3rd year if they do develop with PT and all. But to see if they break out they need to get actual live minutes. And behind the scenes training on the areas where they are weak.
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#648 » by dckingsfan » Thu May 26, 2022 12:19 am

payitforward wrote:That is correct. Though in truth I'd do Rui plus 10 for the 3 SA picks as well. I'm just trying to get that 1 more R2 pick, cuz I like a lot of rookies! 5 is better than 4!

I would just add... if a rookie isn't working out - move on quickly to give you more chances.
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#649 » by doclinkin » Thu May 26, 2022 1:15 am

dckingsfan wrote:
payitforward wrote:That is correct. Though in truth I'd do Rui plus 10 for the 3 SA picks as well. I'm just trying to get that 1 more R2 pick, cuz I like a lot of rookies! 5 is better than 4!

I would just add... if a rookie isn't working out - move on quickly to give you more chances.


Right. Though to my way of thinking you can't develop rookies unless they get playtime. And have vets ahead of them that can exemplify how to win. Competing with each other for PT does not help as much if they don't have real gaps of opportunity to earn those extra minutes. There are not enough developmental minutes for a half dozen rookies. Commonly teams with packs of rookies lose for a few years straight, then end up trading them away before they develop, where they break out on other teams. Teams overloaded with young players, losing, ends up teaching them to get used to losing, or develop coping mechanisms to not care about winning as much.

And with at least 2 years guaranteed on the rookie scale you can't simply cut them with no salary cap hit. Seems to me you want to stagger your developmental players so that the guys who recently learned how to do a thing are able to teach by example the guys coming up after them. Also you can anticipate and structure contracts better if they don't all mature at once. Or in the best case scenario they all get good at the same time and all require big contract adjustments at the same time. Not so great.

PLUS there will be new rooks you want next year, you can't add 6 guys every year, can't cut them, can't store them away. Coaches won't play them over vets who already know how to do the thing (though they have lesser talent) to show how it is done. So. Yeah. The only wiggle room would be if you always trade out of the 1st round so you would have more flexibility on structuring the contracts with out clauses. AND agents would hate for their clients to be drafted by you. So your habit of using up and burning out talent would not spread your good reputation around the league, if their clients were treated as disposable units as opposed to human beings with dreams and families. Seems to me you have to give them a fair chance to learn and develop. Not throw them in the shark tank and say "swim". Or even hire a couple dozen assistant coaches to try to teach them despite the lack of PT.

Shrug.
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#650 » by dckingsfan » Thu May 26, 2022 1:35 am

doclinkin wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:
payitforward wrote:That is correct. Though in truth I'd do Rui plus 10 for the 3 SA picks as well. I'm just trying to get that 1 more R2 pick, cuz I like a lot of rookies! 5 is better than 4!

I would just add... if a rookie isn't working out - move on quickly to give you more chances.


Right. Though to my way of thinking you can't develop rookies unless they get playtime. And have vets ahead of them that can exemplify how to win. Competing with each other for PT does not help as much if they don't have real gaps of opportunity to earn those extra minutes. There are not enough developmental minutes for a half dozen rookies. Commonly teams with packs of rookies lose for a few years straight, then end up trading them away before they develop, where they break out on other teams. Teams overloaded with young players, losing, ends up teaching them to get used to losing, or develop coping mechanisms to not care about winning as much.

And with 3 years guaranteed on the rookie scale you can't simply cut them with no salary cap hit. Seems to me you want to stagger your developmental players so that the guys who recently learned how to do a thing are able to teach by example the guys coming up after them. Also you can anticipate and structure contracts better if they don't all mature at once. Or in the best case scenario they all get good at the same time and all require big contract adjustments at the same time. Not so great.

PLUS there will be new rooks you want next year, you can't add 6 guys every year, can't cut them, can't store them away. Coaches won't play them over vets who already know how to do the thing (though they have lesser talent) to show how it is done. So. Yeah. The only wiggle room would be if you always trade out of the 1st round so you would have more flexibility on structuring the contracts with out clauses. AND agents would hate for their clients to be drafted by you. So your habit of using up and burning out talent would not spread your good reputation around the league, if their clients were treated as disposable units as opposed to human beings with dreams and families. Seems to me you have to give them a fair chance to learn and develop. Not throw them in the shark tank and say "swim". Or even hire a couple dozen assistant coaches to try to teach them despite the lack of PT.

Shrug.

Partially this. I think you want a limited number of young players getting PT on the regular roster. And then you want a bunch of those young players playing on your G league squad. If they make progress there - then move them up.

Garrison Mathews is an example. Our fail was not signing him - it wasn't that we didn't develop him.

This last season we had Avdija, Kispert & Gafford as young players that got significant minutes. Carey & Todd should be in the G league getting significant minutes until they either breakthrough or you let them go and that decision should be made fairly quickly (I think you will succeed more that you fail with that route but you will miss sometimes).

I think you need to have your G league roster with at least 2 (and hopefully 4) players you are hoping will develop.

This plus adding 1 young player to your roster (hopefully your first round pick) that will get some minutes like Avdija, Kispert & Gafford.

To do that, you can't hold onto Ish Smith and probably KCP.
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#651 » by WallToWall » Sun May 29, 2022 3:20 am

As a stop gap measure, should we entertain the thought of signing UFA Dennis Schroder? He had a shoulder injury close to the end of the season, and didnt come back from it. I do think he has at least 2-3 years of good basketball left in him. Maybe there is enough not to like about his game, but he may actually work well next to Beal.
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#652 » by gambitx777 » Sun May 29, 2022 7:24 am

WallToWall wrote:As a stop gap measure, should we entertain the thought of signing UFA Dennis Schroder? He had a shoulder injury close to the end of the season, and didnt come back from it. I do think he has at least 2-3 years of good basketball left in him. Maybe there is enough not to like about his game, but he may actually work well next to Beal.
At the very least we owe him a vet min deal because if he hadn't been that stupid and gave up all that money. The Lakers might now have been desperate enough to take Westbrook lol .

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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#653 » by nate33 » Sun May 29, 2022 2:07 pm

WallToWall wrote:As a stop gap measure, should we entertain the thought of signing UFA Dennis Schroder? He had a shoulder injury close to the end of the season, and didnt come back from it. I do think he has at least 2-3 years of good basketball left in him. Maybe there is enough not to like about his game, but he may actually work well next to Beal.

Schroeder has never been effective as a PG. He doesn't know how to run a team. His best role has been as an instant offense scorer. He is more of a Lou Williams than a real PG. That has real value in the right system, but I don't think it's our system. We don't need a lot of isolation scoring, we need a guy who can run pick-and-roll and secondary pick-and-roll off of Porzingis in the high post while also being a stout defender at the other end. And we can afford to sacrifice a little bit of offense if it means we get more defense. I'd much rather have Sato than Schroeder.
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#654 » by 9 and 20 » Sun May 29, 2022 6:46 pm

nate33 wrote:
WallToWall wrote:As a stop gap measure, should we entertain the thought of signing UFA Dennis Schroder? He had a shoulder injury close to the end of the season, and didnt come back from it. I do think he has at least 2-3 years of good basketball left in him. Maybe there is enough not to like about his game, but he may actually work well next to Beal.

Schroeder has never been effective as a PG. He doesn't know how to run a team. His best role has been as an instant offense scorer. He is more of a Lou Williams than a real PG. That has real value in the right system, but I don't think it's our system. We don't need a lot of isolation scoring, we need a guy who can run pick-and-roll and secondary pick-and-roll off of Porzingis in the high post while also being a stout defender at the other end. And we can afford to sacrifice a little bit of offense if it means we get more defense. I'd much rather have Sato than Schroeder.


How about we sacrifice both and run with some Brazilian Chocolate. My man Neto and his one on five mindset. At least he'll come cheap!
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#655 » by nate33 » Thu Jun 2, 2022 8:15 pm

We can't forget that we owe a protected 2023 1st round pick. It's protections are:

Top 14 for 2023
Top 12 for 2024
Top 10 for 2025
Top 8 for 2026

If we keep Beal and trade for a guy like Brodgon, so that we are just good enough to squeak into the playoffs as a #8 seed, all we get is a 1st round defeat and the loss of our draft pick. Better to trade Beal and tank for the lottery for a few years.
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#656 » by Dat2U » Fri Jun 3, 2022 2:36 am

payitforward wrote:In the draft thread, I just described a pair of potential draft-day trades that resulted in wholesale changes to our roster:
payitforward wrote:...1. 10 to OKC, plus the '24 R2 pick they owe us, in return for 12 & 34.
This seems fairly reasonable. If they'd do it w/o us giving back that future R2 pick so much the better -- but, I doubt it.

2. Rui & 12 to SA for Tre Jones plus 20, 25 & 38.
I'd rather trade Kuzma than Rui, but this version seems more logical for SA.

We lose Rui but wind up with a good, young starting PG & what looks to be a whole lot of value in 5 picks this year: 20, 25, 34, 38 & 54. For example...

20 - Jalen Williams, Nikola Jovic, Jaden Hardy or Jake Laravia
25 - Kennedy Chandler, Christian Koloko, EJ Liddell, Walker Kessler or Terquavion Smith
34 - Dalen Terry or John Butler
38 - Gabriel Procida, Christian Braun or Andrew Nembhard
54 - Trevion Williams, David Roddy or Ibou Dianko Badji

Suppose we came away with Tre Jones, Kennedy Chandler, Christian Koloko, Dalen Terry, Gabriel Procida -- plus Trevion Williams taken w/ 54, but that's a pick we already have).

Assume Beal @$40m for the moment. We have 7 other guaranteed contracts at a total of @$61m. Jones would come in a sign-&-trade. As an arbitrary number, let's assume he costs $7.5m. 2 of the 5 (!) rookies would become 2 way players. The other 3 would cost @$6m. Given how young we'd be, we can assume that we'd pick up KCP's $14.4m option.

That's @$130m for 13 players, leaving us plenty of room to sign a very good free agent (at, say, $15m) & a solid guy at vet minimum while remaining comfortably under the luxury tax line.

How much of this could come true? How much makes sense to you?


I'd be happy with 12 & 34 if Mathurin, Daniels & Dieng are gone.

12. G Jalen Williams
34. C Christian Koloko, F Gabriel Procida or F Jake LaRavia (assuming Keels is gone)
54. G Keon Ellis, F Jaylin Williams or F Payton Watson (assuming Nembhard is gone)

G FA ... Satoransky ... J. Williams(r)
G Beal ... Kispert ... K. Ellis(r)
F Caldwell-Pope ... Avdija
F Kuzma ... Hachimura ... Todd
C Porzingis ... Gafford ... Koloko(r)
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#657 » by Tyrone Messby » Fri Jun 3, 2022 3:25 am

Hey remember when the Celtics were the 7th seed and we were the 8th seed last year? Fun times. We are such a loser franchise. :banghead: We cannot supermax Beal.
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#658 » by 80sballboy » Fri Jun 3, 2022 3:51 pm

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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#659 » by nate33 » Fri Jun 3, 2022 4:07 pm

No. They don't.
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Re: Offseason Plan 

Post#660 » by FAH1223 » Fri Jun 3, 2022 4:26 pm

Tyrone Messby wrote:Hey remember when the Celtics were the 7th seed and we were the 8th seed last year? Fun times. We are such a loser franchise. :banghead: We cannot supermax Beal.


Wizards were 23-21 on MLK Day. 3 games behind the Sixers for 6th seed after routing them in DC.

The Celtics were 23-22 on MLK Day. In 10th place. Proceeded to lose 2 in a row to be 23-24 and then blew out the Wizards in DC by 30.

What weird season that got right after January. :lol:
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