2021-22 General Thread

[BoogieTime]

DDV is OK but I'm not losing sleep if he walks. Kings got a look and nothing popped (pun intended) but I didn't see some special player the Kings can't afford to lose.

Yep.

Decent sixth man money (10-12 mil a year) at best.

I'm not even sure how I feel about that. I guess if we don't draft a guard we need to, but I liked what I saw from Davis a whole lot more than DDV last year.

The concept of coming off serious injury is players sometimes are worse in the immediate aftermath (his half year this year with the Bucks/Kings), than they 'can' be over the long haul.

[LightTheBeam]

Yep.

Decent sixth man money (10-12 mil a year) at best.

I'm not even sure how I feel about that. I guess if we don't draft a guard we need to, but I liked what I saw from Davis a whole lot more than DDV last year.

The concept of coming off serious injury is players sometimes are worse in the immediate aftermath (his half year this year with the Bucks/Kings), than they 'can' be over the long haul.

And I factored that in. Its more so his attitude and the effort he put. Chucking away 3's even when he wasn't hitting, then being mad that he didn't get to start as if he earned that right. Not the kind of attitude i want on my team.

[BoogieTime]

I'm not even sure how I feel about that. I guess if we don't draft a guard we need to, but I liked what I saw from Davis a whole lot more than DDV last year.

The concept of coming off serious injury is players sometimes are worse in the immediate aftermath (his half year this year with the Bucks/Kings), than they 'can' be over the long haul.

And I factored that in. Its more so his attitude and the effort he put. Chucking away 3's even when he wasn't hitting, then being mad that he didn't get to start as if he earned that right. Not the kind of attitude i want on my team.

He wasn't even trusting his body, probably at that point.

Last year in Milwaukee when he was a solid starter hitting 38% from 3 that wasn't an issue.

Id say I saw glimpses of what he was, defensive plays, BBIQ, but with bad wheels.

But the GM of the team purposely acquired him twice, and Donte may or may not revert to the solid starter he was last year if he comes back stronger and/or trusts his body more. And IMO he should have been starting the entire time, as he has a more impactful game than Holiday as far as I'm concerned.

[LightTheBeam]

The concept of coming off serious injury is players sometimes are worse in the immediate aftermath (his half year this year with the Bucks/Kings), than they 'can' be over the long haul.

And I factored that in. Its more so his attitude and the effort he put. Chucking away 3's even when he wasn't hitting, then being mad that he didn't get to start as if he earned that right. Not the kind of attitude i want on my team.

He wasn't even trusting his body, probably at that point.

Last year in Milwaukee when he was a solid starter hitting 38% from 3 that wasn't an issue.

Id say I saw glimpses of what he was, defensive plays, BBIQ, but with bad wheels.

But the GM of the team purposely acquired him twice, and Donte may or may not revert to the solid starter he was last year if he comes back stronger and/or trusts his body more. And IMO he should have been starting the entire time, as he has a more impactful game than Holiday as far as I'm concerned.

I like what I saw from him more than Holiday, but that isn't saying much. And Holiday had earned the right over DDV based on their performance this year prior to arriving in Sacramento.

Again, I never like a player that thinks hes too good to come off the bench. Especially one that hasn't proven jack. Even if we resign DDV, Id still be looking at upgrading the 2g spot at some point. Will he be okay with coming off the bench then? Or will we have another Buddy/Bogdan scenario. Not a fan.

Davis impressed me far more than DDV. Through the first 35 games the Kings were 5-2 in games Davis got 20+ minutes. And this wasn't just a fluke, he had some big games during that stretch. Check his +/- these games, even the games we lost he was solid in the box score. Some reason Gentry terrible as he is, decided after a great 10 game stretch that he was going to glue Davis to the bench and give Harkless, Ramsey, Tristan Thompson minutes instead.

So if we draft or trade for a shooting guard, id rather just S&T DDV opening up a TPE we can use down the line. Have Davis play the backup 2g role. And if we don't and decide to resign DDV, I'm not just handing him the starting gig, he needs to outperform Davis/Mitchell to get that spot.

[BoogieTime]

And I factored that in. Its more so his attitude and the effort he put. Chucking away 3's even when he wasn't hitting, then being mad that he didn't get to start as if he earned that right. Not the kind of attitude i want on my team.

He wasn't even trusting his body, probably at that point.

Last year in Milwaukee when he was a solid starter hitting 38% from 3 that wasn't an issue.

Id say I saw glimpses of what he was, defensive plays, BBIQ, but with bad wheels.

But the GM of the team purposely acquired him twice, and Donte may or may not revert to the solid starter he was last year if he comes back stronger and/or trusts his body more. And IMO he should have been starting the entire time, as he has a more impactful game than Holiday as far as I'm concerned.

I like what I saw from him more than Holiday, but that isn't saying much. And Holiday had earned the right over DDV based on their performance this year prior to arriving in Sacramento.

Again, I never like a player that thinks hes too good to come off the bench. Especially one that hasn't proven jack. Even if we resign DDV, Id still be looking at upgrading the 2g spot at some point. Will he be okay with coming off the bench then? Or will we have another Buddy/Bogdan scenario. Not a fan.

Davis impressed me far more than DDV. Through the first 35 games the Kings were 5-2 in games Davis got 20+ minutes. And this wasn't just a fluke, he had some big games during that stretch. Check his +/- these games, even the games we lost he was solid in the box score. Some reason Gentry terrible as he is, decided after a great 10 game stretch that he was going to glue Davis to the bench and give Harkless, Ramsey, Tristan Thompson minutes instead.

So if we draft or trade for a shooting guard, id rather just S&T DDV opening up a TPE we can use down the line. Have Davis play the backup 2g role. And if we don't and decide to resign DDV, I'm not just handing him the starting gig, he needs to outperform Davis/Mitchell to get that spot.

Aside from the fact that Davion plays better as a starter and doesn't want to come off the bench, are you saying that even Donte fully healthy last year in Milwaukee wasnt starting material? Maybe we have a fundamentally different perception of him as a player.

I don't mind the fact that you think the team needs another starter there, IMO from Monte's perspective there will be more pressing positions, to the point where if all things are near equal, the team will use those assets elsewhere. But you never know when a superior player at SG will come available

[LightTheBeam]

Aside from the fact that Davion plays better as a starter and doesn't want to come off the bench, are you saying that even Donte fully healthy last year in Milwaukee wasnt starting material? Maybe we have a fundamentally different perception of him as a player.

I don't mind the fact that you think the team needs another starter there, IMO from Monte's perspective there will be more pressing positions, to the point where if all things are near equal, the team will use those assets elsewhere. But you never know when a superior player at SG will come available

I'm saying that even at DDVs best, he was a low end starter on a team that ended up winning the Finals without him really playing in the playoffs. They didn't miss a beat when he went down. His minutes just went to Connaughton and Forbes.

Just looked at the teams and just based on memory id have him as the 30th best shooting guard in the league. Probably missed a few guys.

[LightTheBeam]

Aside from the fact that Davion plays better as a starter and doesn't want to come off the bench, are you saying that even Donte fully healthy last year in Milwaukee wasnt starting material? Maybe we have a fundamentally different perception of him as a player.

I don't mind the fact that you think the team needs another starter there, IMO from Monte's perspective there will be more pressing positions, to the point where if all things are near equal, the team will use those assets elsewhere. But you never know when a superior player at SG will come available

I'm saying that even at DDVs best, he was a low end starter on a team that ended up winning the Finals without him really playing in the playoffs. They didn't miss a beat when he went down. His minutes just went to Connaughton and Forbes.

Just looked at the teams and just based on memory id have him as the 30th best shooting guard in the league. Probably missed a few guys.

Heat - Herro
Celtics - Brown, White
76ers - Harden
Raptors - GTJ
Bulls - LaVine
Nets - Curry
Hawks - Bogdan, Huerter
Hornets - Rozier
Knicks - RJ
Wizards - Beal
Pacers - Brogdan or Hali (whichever you consider)
Suns - Booker
Grizzlies - Bane, Brooks
Warriors - Klay, Poole
Mavs - Luka or Brunson whichever you consider
Jazz - Mitchell, Clarkson
Nuggets - Murray
Wolves - Edwards
Portland - Hart
Pelicans - CJ
Clippers - Powell
Spurs - Vassell
Thunder - SGA
Rockets - KPJ, Green

Thats 30 guys I have ahead of him. And personally id say Strus, Davis, Duarte, Cole Anthony, Levert, Sexton are all arguably equal or better as well. Maybe he finds his way moving ahead of a few of these guys, but his cap is really a low level starter/high level backup. I say that as someone who rooted for Milwaukee and was happy when we finally got him. But I have no interest in overpaying him to keep him around. My max would be about MLE money, if someone comes in offering 3 or 4 years at 15 per, let him walk without a second thought.

[BoogieTime]

As a NBA fan I made it to two Game 1 Finals at the old Oracle Arena several years back. Never been to the Warriors new home but I think I'll head down. This will mark the third night in my life that I will be a Warriors fan.

And that -160 line looks nice.

[OxAndFox]

I have liked the coaching hire that Brown has made so far.

While I was not a fan of hiring Brown, nor any of the three finalists for that matter, Brown is going with his guys.
Jordi Fernandez is one of Brown's guys. Hopefully, he can bring the offensive game plan together and introduce some of what the Nuggets do with Jokic.
Jay Triano will most likely work closely on the offensive side too. He has head coaching experience and played a role in the Hornets offensive scheme.
Luke Loucks I hadn't heard of before. It seems like he has worked with succesful orgs though in Warriors and the Suns.
Doug Christie it would seem is the only hire that Brown didn't make. I'm not sure on that, but would assume the organisation liked Doug and wanted a place for him.
The only other person I would like to see stay is Rico Hines. He is high on accountability and the Kings need more of it and a coach like Brown will back him up.

What are others thoughts?

[OxAndFox]

I had to laugh seeing Vivek behind the Celtics bench at game 2. Just thinking about him leaning over and telling Ime to put Nik in. lol.

[City of Trees]

I'm super happy for Wiggins.

[City of Trees]

For the "I can't believe we got nothing for Bogi" camp

Read on Twitter

[BoogieTime]

For the "I can't believe we got nothing for Bogi" camp

Read on Twitter

Yeah, wasnt me. I thought Bogi never moved the needle.

I'll take Collins without touching the 4, though not sure thats happening

[LightTheBeam]

Atkinson backing out from the coaching job reportedly due to Charlotte unwilling to pay for his assistants. "many of whom have one full season of guaranteed salary remaining on their deals—from previous head coach James Borrego, sources said. Before Atkinson put pen to paper on his contract, he and the Hornets were unable to come to financial agreements for his new assistants, sources said."

It's just weird they aren't getting crazy amount of backlash for this. Can you imagine if the Brown backed out and the this came out? We would be reading KANGZ, VIVEK SUCKS, NIK ROCKS everyday for the next month. Now I don't blame them, Vivek does suck, but just weird that a team like Charlotte isn't prone to the same criticism.

[OGSactownballer]

Aside from the fact that Davion plays better as a starter and doesn't want to come off the bench, are you saying that even Donte fully healthy last year in Milwaukee wasnt starting material? Maybe we have a fundamentally different perception of him as a player.

I don't mind the fact that you think the team needs another starter there, IMO from Monte's perspective there will be more pressing positions, to the point where if all things are near equal, the team will use those assets elsewhere. But you never know when a superior player at SG will come available

I'm saying that even at DDVs best, he was a low end starter on a team that ended up winning the Finals without him really playing in the playoffs. They didn't miss a beat when he went down. His minutes just went to Connaughton and Forbes.

Just looked at the teams and just based on memory id have him as the 30th best shooting guard in the league. Probably missed a few guys.

You just literally stated that it took TWO GUYS to replace his minutes as the two way starting shooting guard for a softy win championship team.

You understand you totally undermined your own position there right?

[OGSactownballer]

Aside from the fact that Davion plays better as a starter and doesn't want to come off the bench, are you saying that even Donte fully healthy last year in Milwaukee wasnt starting material? Maybe we have a fundamentally different perception of him as a player.

I don't mind the fact that you think the team needs another starter there, IMO from Monte's perspective there will be more pressing positions, to the point where if all things are near equal, the team will use those assets elsewhere. But you never know when a superior player at SG will come available

I'm saying that even at DDVs best, he was a low end starter on a team that ended up winning the Finals without him really playing in the playoffs. They didn't miss a beat when he went down. His minutes just went to Connaughton and Forbes.

Just looked at the teams and just based on memory id have him as the 30th best shooting guard in the league. Probably missed a few guys.

Heat - Herro
Celtics - Brown, White
76ers - Harden
Raptors - GTJ
Bulls - LaVine
Nets - Curry
Hawks - Bogdan, Huerter
Hornets - Rozier
Knicks - RJ
Wizards - Beal
Pacers - Brogdan or Hali (whichever you consider)
Suns - Booker
Grizzlies - Bane, Brooks
Warriors - Klay, Poole
Mavs - Luka or Brunson whichever you consider
Jazz - Mitchell, Clarkson
Nuggets - Murray
Wolves - Edwards
Portland - Hart
Pelicans - CJ
Clippers - Powell
Spurs - Vassell
Thunder - SGA
Rockets - KPJ, Green

Thats 30 guys I have ahead of him. And personally id say Strus, Davis, Duarte, Cole Anthony, Levert, Sexton are all arguably equal or better as well. Maybe he finds his way moving ahead of a few of these guys, but his cap is really a low level starter/high level backup. I say that as someone who rooted for Milwaukee and was happy when we finally got him. But I have no interest in overpaying him to keep him around. My max would be about MLE money, if someone comes in offering 3 or 4 years at 15 per, let him walk without a second thought.

I never said pay him $15/yr. That’s too much money without proof he’s fully ok from injury.

I said 10-12 a year and less if you can get away with it. That’s fourth or fifth starter or sixth man money right there for teams that are truly playoff caliber/contender level.

[LightTheBeam]

I'm saying that even at DDVs best, he was a low end starter on a team that ended up winning the Finals without him really playing in the playoffs. They didn't miss a beat when he went down. His minutes just went to Connaughton and Forbes.

Just looked at the teams and just based on memory id have him as the 30th best shooting guard in the league. Probably missed a few guys.

You just literally stated that it took TWO GUYS to replace his minutes as the two way starting shooting guard for a softy win championship team.

You understand you totally undermined your own position there right?

What? Its not like Forbes and Connaughton weren't playing before he went down.. Actually just Connaughtons minutes went up.

The whole point is that they replaced him with a fringe rotation guy, and Pat Connaughton and didn't miss a beat. = DDV is replaceable with essentially minimum players. I don't think we get any worse on the floor just giving DDV's minutes to Davis next year. I actually think we get better.

I'm confused by this whole gotcha moment. I don't see how that undermined my own position which is again that DDV is easily replaceable and probably shouldn't even get 10/year.

[LightTheBeam]

I never said pay him $15/yr. That’s too much money without proof he’s fully ok from injury.

I said 10-12 a year and less if you can get away with it. That’s fourth or fifth starter or sixth man money right there for teams that are truly playoff caliber/contender level.

Depending on how the draft goes (if we land Ivey) I'd prefer to S&T him away for a TPE than give him 10-12 mil per year.

[OGSactownballer]

I never said pay him $15/yr. That’s too much money without proof he’s fully ok from injury.

I said 10-12 a year and less if you can get away with it. That’s fourth or fifth starter or sixth man money right there for teams that are truly playoff caliber/contender level.

Depending on how the draft goes (if we land Ivey) I'd prefer to S&T him away for a TPE than give him 10-12 mil per year.

Different story entirely.

I am fully ok walking away with Ivey and a more needed asset as I said elsewhere I see Ivey as starting at current Jordan Poole level at the latest by end of Rookie campaign. Then nowhere to go but up.

[OxAndFox]

After the disappointing draft overall, we know though Murray fits here like a glove.
I think the thing that excites me the most with him is the defensive versatility along with coach Brown bringing a system with defenders Davion, DDV, Davis, and Holiday. Obviously, any combination can be put in trades.
Surround Sabonis and Fox with capable defenders. I think Sabonis' lack of defense is overstated a bit in his short stint with the Kings, but we will see over a larger span of games.
Barnes is the odd one out here IMO even though he played well with Sabonis, and obviously Holmes. If Monte can get a 3&D wing (yeah they don't grow on trees) to replace Barnes or Holmes or both with a 1st attached IMO the squad won't be too bad.
If someone can find a match there, good luck.
I don't see the MLE landing a starter.