Craft your 2022-23 Celtics Roster – (20-Man Off-Season)

[hugepatsfan]

Of course he has value. You think you can get cost-controlled shooters for free?

Garrison Matthews, Sam Hauser, Matt Thomas all signed as free agent for free.
Bryan Forbes was a throw in in a trade involving Bol Bol and Juan Hernangomez.

Pedantic negative indicator supporting my point here. Unfortunately he’s their best trade asset on the roster, but silver lining is he’s clearly outplayed his draft slot and retains that level of value in the right deal.

Unfortunately, no Pritchard hasn't maintained his draft slot. You can both outplay your draft slot and still not be able to recoup a draft pick where you were taken. Outplaying the 26th pick draft slot really means nothing because 99% of guys taken there suck. So even having played well for where he was taken, he's just too limited a player that a team would ever give up the upside of a cheap 4 year rookie contract for 2 years of him. He's already going into his age 25 season next year. He was always considered a low ceiling prospect.

Getting a guy like Pritchard late in the 1st is good value for a contending team like us because you get some continuity with someone you can write in for minutes. But Pritchard is easily replaceable with a vet min signing. 30 teams would take him on their roster, but no one is giving up value for him. If we were to trade him we could probably get a mid-2nd rounder.

[24istheLAW]

I'm surprised how many people are pining for Josh Richardson.

He's never shot as well as he did this season. He had trouble in Boston finding his fit in the flow of the offense because he, like the Jays, isn't a quick ball mover, he needs to take a few dribbles. Defensively, he didn't play to his reputation, but that was before the scheme change.

I'm not saying he's a bad player. And with the benefit of hindsight, Wyc should have backed this team, and paid San Antonio in TPE instead of in the guy who'd be our 8th man in the ECF right now.

But if you're looking for a player in 2023, does Richardson project to be better than Taurean Prince? Gary Harris who was mentioned earlier in the thread?

[BillessuR6]

Garry Harris wouldn't be a bad option but I think he will command too much money. I expect him to resign with the Magic.

We need to find a long term solution at PF to replace Horford down the line. Who in the league ATM could replicate what he is giving us? And would be attainable...

Maybe we will have to hit on our first rounder next yeat. 2023 draft should be deep. Of course, we are contenders now, so we need guys who can contribute right away...

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[hugepatsfan]

I'm surprised how many people are pining for Josh Richardson.

He's never shot as well as he did this season. He had trouble in Boston finding his fit in the flow of the offense because he, like the Jays, isn't a quick ball mover, he needs to take a few dribbles. Defensively, he didn't play to his reputation, but that was before the scheme change.

I'm not saying he's a bad player. And with the benefit of hindsight, Wyc should have backed this team, and paid San Antonio in TPE instead of in the guy who'd be our 8th man in the ECF right now.

But if you're looking for a player in 2023, does Richardson project to be better than Taurean Prince? Gary Harris who was mentioned earlier in the thread?

We can only offer free agents the $6.3M tax payers MLE. Harris figures to have full MLE suitors and MIN likely would offer that much to Prince since they have no limited means to add/retain talent. We probably get priced out on those guys.

I don't think people are so much pining for Richardson because they think he's great as much as they are viewing him as someone who's realistically attainable for no additional value than taking his salary on through the TPE. Same way we got him last year. You can add a good player with the TPE for taking on the salary but there's a limit to how good if you aren't sending back anything premium back. No one sends you a GREAT player for free.

[165bows]

Garrison Matthews, Sam Hauser, Matt Thomas all signed as free agent for free.
Bryan Forbes was a throw in in a trade involving Bol Bol and Juan Hernangomez.

Pedantic negative indicator supporting my point here. Unfortunately he’s their best trade asset on the roster, but silver lining is he’s clearly outplayed his draft slot and retains that level of value in the right deal.

Unfortunately, no Pritchard hasn't maintained his draft slot. You can both outplay your draft slot and still not be able to recoup a draft pick where you were taken. Outplaying the 26th pick draft slot really means nothing because 99% of guys taken there suck. So even having played well for where he was taken, he's just too limited a player that a team would ever give up the upside of a cheap 4 year rookie contract for 2 years of him. He's already going into his age 25 season next year. He was always considered a low ceiling prospect.

Getting a guy like Pritchard late in the 1st is good value for a contending team like us because you get some continuity with someone you can write in for minutes. But Pritchard is easily replaceable with a vet min signing. 30 teams would take him on their roster, but no one is giving up value for him. If we were to trade him we could probably get a mid-2nd rounder.

Why not have traded him for a second rounder, signed a taller vet min guy for his role and production, and also saved $1M? Or any part of the above?

If what you are saying is accurate they made a whole series of dumba** mistakes with that spot.

Instead black-and-white thinkers are having a hard time with the idea that the guy has a modest amount of trade value for some reason.

[hugepatsfan]

Pedantic negative indicator supporting my point here. Unfortunately he’s their best trade asset on the roster, but silver lining is he’s clearly outplayed his draft slot and retains that level of value in the right deal.

Unfortunately, no Pritchard hasn't maintained his draft slot. You can both outplay your draft slot and still not be able to recoup a draft pick where you were taken. Outplaying the 26th pick draft slot really means nothing because 99% of guys taken there suck. So even having played well for where he was taken, he's just too limited a player that a team would ever give up the upside of a cheap 4 year rookie contract for 2 years of him. He's already going into his age 25 season next year. He was always considered a low ceiling prospect.

Getting a guy like Pritchard late in the 1st is good value for a contending team like us because you get some continuity with someone you can write in for minutes. But Pritchard is easily replaceable with a vet min signing. 30 teams would take him on their roster, but no one is giving up value for him. If we were to trade him we could probably get a mid-2nd rounder.

Why not have traded him for a second rounder, signed a taller vet min guy for his role and production, and also saved $1M? Or any part of the above?

If what you are saying is accurate they made a whole series of dumba** mistakes with that spot.

Instead black-and-white thinkers are having a hard time with the idea that the guy has a modest amount of trade value for some reason.

Because there's risk that the guy you sign actually flops. It's happened before. And even if the guy you sign is great, he could get hurt. Or someone else could get hurt and now you need both of them. Pritchard wouldn't return much in a trade, hence there being no point in trading him. But he just doesn't have any significant trade value.

[sam_I_am]

Pedantic negative indicator supporting my point here. Unfortunately he’s their best trade asset on the roster, but silver lining is he’s clearly outplayed his draft slot and retains that level of value in the right deal.

Unfortunately, no Pritchard hasn't maintained his draft slot. You can both outplay your draft slot and still not be able to recoup a draft pick where you were taken. Outplaying the 26th pick draft slot really means nothing because 99% of guys taken there suck. So even having played well for where he was taken, he's just too limited a player that a team would ever give up the upside of a cheap 4 year rookie contract for 2 years of him. He's already going into his age 25 season next year. He was always considered a low ceiling prospect.

Getting a guy like Pritchard late in the 1st is good value for a contending team like us because you get some continuity with someone you can write in for minutes. But Pritchard is easily replaceable with a vet min signing. 30 teams would take him on their roster, but no one is giving up value for him. If we were to trade him we could probably get a mid-2nd rounder.

Why not have traded him for a second rounder, signed a taller vet min guy for his role and production, and also saved $1M? Or any part of the above?

If what you are saying is accurate they made a whole series of dumba** mistakes with that spot.

Instead black-and-white thinkers are having a hard time with the idea that the guy has a modest amount of trade value for some reason.

Pritchard and Nesmith both make no sense in trades (except as add ons in larger deal) because they both have a chance to be better than what they would bring back. Nesmith might even be a bust but if he ever lives up to his hype as a 3 pt shooter, his athleticism makes it worth the wait. Unless you want to dump salary, trading either for a second round pick is idiotic IMO unless it’s a draft day deal for a player you covet and value more highly.

[165bows]

Unfortunately, no Pritchard hasn't maintained his draft slot. You can both outplay your draft slot and still not be able to recoup a draft pick where you were taken. Outplaying the 26th pick draft slot really means nothing because 99% of guys taken there suck. So even having played well for where he was taken, he's just too limited a player that a team would ever give up the upside of a cheap 4 year rookie contract for 2 years of him. He's already going into his age 25 season next year. He was always considered a low ceiling prospect.

Getting a guy like Pritchard late in the 1st is good value for a contending team like us because you get some continuity with someone you can write in for minutes. But Pritchard is easily replaceable with a vet min signing. 30 teams would take him on their roster, but no one is giving up value for him. If we were to trade him we could probably get a mid-2nd rounder.

Why not have traded him for a second rounder, signed a taller vet min guy for his role and production, and also saved $1M? Or any part of the above?

If what you are saying is accurate they made a whole series of dumba** mistakes with that spot.

Instead black-and-white thinkers are having a hard time with the idea that the guy has a modest amount of trade value for some reason.

Because there's risk that the guy you sign actually flops. It's happened before. And even if the guy you sign is great, he could get hurt. Or someone else could get hurt and now you need both of them. Pritchard wouldn't return much in a trade, hence there being no point in trading him. But he just doesn't have any significant trade value.

Well yes trade value is sort of an arbitrary idea until a team decides a guy fits what they need. Doesn't change most of what you are saying was inaccurate - who was a better vet min guy, Austin Rivers or some other dud?

PP will have RFA and likely never once be an overpaid guy until his third contract. Unlike MLE guys who are typically bleeding value the second they sign their third deal because they are over the hill. A vet min guy if he plays well gets a big raise and/or leaves the next season. Even a second round find plays well then gets overpaid because no RFA. PP's age and contract isn't a problem - it is a value. Especially relative to the the examples you describe. 5-6 years of cost-controlled average production role player of known value is valuable.

People are just grumpy about the idea of a guy having modest value because they are binary thinkers.

[BK_2020]

It's kinda meaningless to say Pritchard is cost-controlled because his comparables are all available on a vet minimum. Garrison Matthews signed as a 2-way then inked a 4/8 deal with only one year guaranteed.
When you are looking at players in Payton Pritchard's range, they are all cost-controlled no matter what.

[165bows]

It's kinda meaningless to say Pritchard is cost-controlled because his comparables are all available on a vet minimum. Garrison Matthews signed as a 2-way then inked a 4/8 deal with only one year guaranteed.
When you are looking at players in Payton Pritchard's range, they are all cost-controlled no matter what.

Well sure if you define them as being cost-controlled.

Austin Rivers got more than the veteran minimum and was a total bust who would have gotten cut. TJ McConnel makes 3-4 times as much and is a Theis level contract who prob wouldn’t get off the bench. Delon Wright is a guy I like as a fit but same thing costs 3-4x and might not have come here with the amount of minutes available.

[CelticFaninLBC]

Garry Harris wouldn't be a bad option but I think he will command too much money. I expect him to resign with the Magic.

We need to find a long term solution at PF to replace Horford down the line. Who in the league ATM could replicate what he is giving us? And would be attainable...

Maybe we will have to hit on our first rounder next yeat. 2023 draft should be deep. Of course, we are contenders now, so we need guys who can contribute right away...

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There's no one attainable for Boston who can replicate what Al has done in the playoffs.

It seems the best attainable big is Christian Wood, but not sure of his fit with Boston??

[Jammer]

Well, I've read everyone's responses in this thread before posting. And I look at upgrading the starters first, the 5 backups second, and filling out the roster with 5 reserves for minimum.

I don't view Smart as untouchable. I view Smart OR White as available should a BETTER STARTER be in reach.

I do view Tatum, Brown, Horford and Rob as starters that should be brought back. Tatum because he's one of the 6 best players in the NBA, Brown because he's a border line All-Star, Horford because he's INVALUEABLE in his versatility, pick setting (no one is better on THIS TEAM), DEFENSE, PASSING, ball handling, vision, LEADERSHIP (to quote Jayson Tatum, who has declared Horford their LEADER), and ability to make 3's. After the 2023 season they can probably sign Horford to a 2 year deal around 15M per, which he will probably still be worth, and you'll know if that makes sense AFTER the end of the 2023 season. Rob is just a bargain on his contract, and very impactful both ways. What the team could use is another starting guard that can drill shots and play D. Someone who's a better shooter than Smart or White. That player may not materialize, but the front office should constantly be on the alert for that type of player. One of this team's biggest advantages is the size Horford, Rob and Tatum present so that they can switch effectively and they don't bite on fakes, another skill that separates them.

As for the backups, Theis is someone I think will be available should they be able to get a replacement that can either shoot from outside or offer more size to deal with players like Embiid and Jokic. Whether Robin Lopez would sign here this summer for the MLE is an unknown, but suddenly you have someone with more size who can defend the paint but doesn't offer the lateral movement that smaller players like Horford and Rob offer.

I think Pritch is a heady and clutch player who can perform under pressure. He's a capable backup, albeit with a size limitation. On his current contract you hold onto him. He's good enough to be the backup PG.

White is a bit of enigma in that he's an impactful PG without the typical shot an NBA guard is expected to have. He's fearless, an excellent defender, passer, team guy, willing to do all the little things. But right now he's backup SG, and without the typical money shot that an NBA Championship level SG is expected to have. Maybe that's why 5 of the 10 players that the Celtics have worked out for their #53 pick are SG's, plus 2 PG's, 2 SF's and 1 PF.

Grant is doing the dirty work, like Horford, and on the last year of his rookie contract so he's obviously coming back. Hopefully he continues to improve. I don't expect his play thus far would get an offer sheet that the Celtics wouldn't be willing to match. Actually, if the Celtics say next summer (if they don't extend this summer, which they might be able to) we're matching any offers that could diminish offer sheets because teams don't like to tie up money that will be matched.

I really expect Hauser, Stauskas and probably even Malik Fitts back. Luke Kornet is more a function of if they can't find someone better. And I have a feeling that Nesmith's $3.8M contract will be too much compared to a replacement player (Hauser or Stauskas because the most a minimum player counts toward the cap is around $1.7M even though a 10 year vet makes $2.6M). So, for me, next year's team looks like:

Position .....Starter ................. Backup ............ Reserve ...........
C ............. Rob Williams III ...... Daniel Theis ...... TBD
PF ............ Al Horford ............ Grant Williams ... Malik Fitts
SF ............ Jayson Tatum ........ Aaron Nesmith .... Sam Hauser
SG ........... Jaylen Brown ........ Derrick White ..... Nik Stauskas
PG ........... Marcus Smart ........ Derrick White ..... Payton Pritchard

That's 13 guys; with Smart OR White, Theis and Nesmith available via trade for a better shooting STARTING PG, or a backup wing able to defend SG-SF and IMMEDIATELY be part of the PLAYOFF ROTATION, and the MLE available for an NBA sized center, should someone like Robin Lopez be interested in signing here (Theis would be outgoing if another center was coming in).

Yam Madar could get a 2-Way Spot. And although I like Mo Bamba, there is absolutely no way that he is a Horford replacement.

[darylbe]

I forget the exact #s, but horfords contract will be like 80% guaranteed for next season if we make finals

Is it a 100% chance he is here next season?
1. Rw3 is still injury prone.
2. Rw3 cannot keep up with giannis or some other bigs.
3. Theis is a big downgrade as backup C.

[darrendaye]

Jammer, I agree with much of your take, deviating primarily with needing to "upgrade" the starting PG. I will say I also have questions about Smart and White ever shooting well enough to each be able to play 30+ minutes a game (i.e. 60+ minutes between them). But either of them make very good pairings in the current starting lineup considering all the areas they lend support. So while I agree that I would not dismiss the idea of trading one of them if they found impact elsewhere in trade, particularly a 4/5, I don't think upgrading needs to be a focus. Tatum is going to continue to evolve as a playmaker and alpha ballhandler. Brown we'll see what direction his role will take in the offense. Smart and/or White are best used as secondary ballhandlers. It mitigates their 3pt shooting streakiness while getting all the very beneficial defense and hustle plays around to help your stars. Al - samesies. And I am annoyingly repetitive about wanting to get Rob a larger playmaking and scoring role whose time pretty much needs to start flowering by next year if he's going to make strides into his prime years and reach the upper end of his wealth of potential.

The one other topic I'll agree with a couple of posters on in this thread is projecting Grant Williams to slide up more next year and get more minutes at the 3. He becomes a post-up option against 3's and he is making some advances in playmaking. I'd also want to give him a runway to really challenge himself defensively and see where his ceiling is.

Signings or trade targets I don't have. I remains pretty steadfast with my hope they pursue Giles. I'm looking into my crystal ball and it's showing me that he's made a commitment during this year long down time to really shore up his 3pt shooting as he knows that it probably his best hook into an NBA rotation. I'd want to give him a chance. Still think things might click for him soon and I'd obviously want to be the team to benefit. Hartenstein is another big man name I've liked for years. Others have thrown out some interesting names and Lopez love has sometimes hit me, so, it wouldn't take to much to me get onboard that train.

[KingofTheClay]

Smart
Beal
Brown
Tatum
Rob

Bench:
PP
White
JRich
Grant
Horford


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[Jammer]

OK, this trade won't happen, because Beal is looking for close to Max Money, but let's say he was willing to accept $30M per year. Then, here's the Wet Dream Trade that technically works under the CBA:

Outgoing:
Al Horford + Aaron Nesmith + 2024 1rst Round Pick + 2028 1rst Round Pick to Philadelphia
Marcus Smart + 2026 1rst Round Pick + Daniel Theis (w 15% Trade Kicker) to Washington

Incoming:
Joel Embiid from Philadelphia
Bradley Beal from Washington

Lineup:
Center: Joel Embiid / Rob Williams III / Luke Kornet
PF: Jayson Tatum / Grant Williams / Malik Fitts
SF: Jaylen Brown / Sam Hauser
SG: Bradley Beal / Nik Stauskas
PG: Derrick White / Payton Pritchard /

This Wet Dream would put the Celtics into the Luxury Tax for years to come, but would eliminate their scoring droughts since they'd have a lot more firepower in their starting and closing lineups. It would take Embiid and Beal demanding to be traded. But it's a nice thought. You have to be certain that you can re-sign Jaylen Brown if you make this play. Plus, Joel Embiid and Jayson Tatum would have to be willing to SET PICKS for Beal, White and Brown.

Their #53 pick would probably get a spot on that team, and someone like Yam Madar could end up with a 2-way contract.

[jmr07019]

Clippers are around 171 million in salary (lux tax starts at 147) to run back a 9th place team who's stars are on the wrong side of 30 with injury histories.

They have the following guys under contract

Powell - age 29 - 4 years 72 mil left
Marcus Morris - age 32 - 2 years 34 mil left
Luke Kenard - age 26 - 2 years 30 million left
Robert Covington - age 32 - 2 years 24 million left

Seems to me they might be interested in sending one of those guys to Boston (all 4 will fit into the fournier TPE) for cap relief. We might even be able to squeeze an asset out of them. Or maybe we expand the trade to send Pritchard out and then get a 1st back.

I would like to see the Celts stay aggressive. Two 7 game series before the finals means we are not very far ahead of our opponents. Sitting on our hands likely leads to someone passing us. If we are going to keep the starting 5 plus White and Grant the two things I am looking for are a beefier back up center and another big wing to come off the bench. Clips could send us that wing for free that leaves the MLE to sign another big. Maybe we need to trade Theis to keep the salary cap / lux tax payments down.

[jmr07019]

White, Rob Williams and if needed for salary Theis for Gobert?

Love Rob but Gobert is better and more durable until proven otherwise. You are better equipped to handle Giannis, Embiid and Bam and you get to keep the rest of the starting lineup plus pritchard and grant.

Jazz get younger and cheaper without sacrificing too much in terms of overall team performance.

[Curmudgeon]

After the tiop 10 I like Kornet as a backup big and Hauser. I'm indifferent on the others, although Fitts can play.

I have zero interest in Gobert or Beal and Embiid is unobtainable unless you want to move Tatum. If you want to make a big move, I would consider Jaylen Brown for Sabonis and Davion Mitchell. Brown's turnovers and defensive lapses drive me up the wall.

[165bows]

I think the primary needs are another big ball handler and another center. Then a back up wing. If they don’t want to spend future assets, this is the type of moves I’d look at:

For the bigger ball handler I’d look at Delon Wright, Ricky Rubio, or the Euro V. Micic is in that mold of what I’d want as well.

For the center I’d look at a full MLE for I. Hartenstein (1+1 or 2+1) and hope he learns to keep the fouls down. On a smaller deal I like Gorgui Deing as a poor man’s Horford as a third “big center.”

I’d take Ron Harper Jr in the draft even if it took a little asset to move up in the 2nd. I think they will need a really big three like that against Milwaukee for the foreseeable future and he’s a good gamble to try to fill that spot. 6’6” with a 7” wingspan, thick af, might be able to shoot and handle and move a little bit at both forward spots, that’s really hits the mold they will need in that backup spot.

I’d also try to land Joe Ingles and let him rehab and be a little offensive spark plug on the bench for later in the season. Not sure if they could get him with a vet min or BAE but I hope they try to make that happen.